[Discussion] So luffy stronger than doflamingo/marco/sabo/jack now???

[Fireplay]

Luffy has surpassed DD. Marco and Sabo are complete question marks considering that we haven't seen Marco post-ts and what we've seen from Sabo is him destroying Burgess and a short scuffle with an admiral so we dont really have a clear idea of where to rank him but going by what we know and portrayal...

Luffy should be stronger than Jack (Jack was quite underwhelming aside from his endurance, Kata tops him and Luffy is going toe-to toe with him).

Luffy vs Marco: Marco through portrayal, hype and what we've seen should be stronger than Katakuri. Out of all these Yonko "crewmates" Marco seems to be the strongest and the fact that he's the captain of the WB pirates now adds more to his hype. Post-TS Marco is gonna be way above the likes of DD and possibly a certified admiral level combatant or slightly below.

Luffy vs Sabo: now the thing about this is that Luffy keeps getting stronger but people are forgetting that at the same time Sabo isn't just sitting around eating donuts. Luffy got Gear 4 while Sabo ate the mera mera. The last time we saw Sabo, Luffy was struggling with DD and now he's going toe to toe with Katakuri while Sabo was scuffling with Fujitora. Fact of the matter is that Sabo isn't in his prime yet either and the last time we saw him he was stronger than Luffy so based on the rate Luffy is evolving im assuming Sabo should be evolving at around the same rate aswell (Sabo has always been portrayed as stronger than Luffy and that hasn't changed).

Imo Yonko first mates are strong indeed but overhyped. People are saying that Kata is admiral level and i disagree. It would make no sense if the 2nd strongest fighters in Yonko crews are stronger than the strongest fighters of the WG if that was the case the pirates would've taken over the One Piece world a long time ago.

Fujitora=>Marco>Sabo>Katakuri>Luffy>Jack>Doflamingo imo.

Yonko level=>Admiral level>>First Mate level.

The admirals are there to balance things out. So how can 4 crews each have 2 characters that are stronger or equal to admirals. That would make it 8 people notoriously running around New World with the ability to defeat the strongest fighters the WG has to offer...

Admiral and Yonko level are around the same. Whitebeard made people blind he was the exception, a living legend.

 

[Sakazuki]

It really doesn't when considering these are all guys from different crews.

You think katakuri can't beat the two top minks on his own?

 

[Sakazuki]

As of now that's a theory, I'm not saying that it won't change later on. In the last arc people thought Vergo was Doflamingo's first mate just because he said that they were close or right hand man. Later on we learned that it wasn't even close and it was Trebol that is the first mate.

All i'm saying is that as for now jack is the guy, though i don't believe that the other commanders are Queen and King.


Fujitori threw all his attacks from Gravity Blade, Raging Tiger, and other Buso haki attacks at Sabo yet they did nothing. In fact when they clashed it was evenly matched and one was unable to hurt the other. In the end of the battle both of them ended at a standstill agreeing to leave everything up to Luffy (gamble):

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Sabo was sitting on the floor pondering about the situation without a single scratch on him:

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He had dirt patches (like Zoro did against Pica) but he wasn't damaged by any of Issho's signature attacks, they were evenly matched just like how Ace was with Smoker in Alabasta.


That's literally up for debate but Sabo fought Diamante,Vice-Admiral Bastille, Jesus Burgess, and Admiral Issho during this whole arc. He didn't lose a single battle the whole time he was there, In fact he one-shot some of those names I just listed.
So take it as you will but you can't deny that his feats are comparable to Marco if not better.
Right now you're speaking through a character portrayal and hype. Right?

Edit: Luffy's G3 is physically powerful, I'm not surprised that it did that to Issho especially when G3 clashed with Power Mochi when applying more will too.

It's not a theory, there's been leaked images of oda working on jack, queen, and king. Every body knows this

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

You think katakuri can't beat the two top minks on his own?

It depends on if the Minks can actually harm Katakuri through speed or their own observation. There's really not much to know if they do, but the facts that Luffy acknowledges both as strong and Jack having to use poison them to win indicates that they just may be able to.

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Keep in mind that not even a fleet of monsters could put Jack down as he returned a mere few days later.

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[OG sama]

It's like what I said just past through your head because you clearly didn't read my post properly. I just said that what we see now is what we get. He was said to be Jack's right hand man and he holds a billion bounty just like Dogtooth. So as of now he holds that position and it may or may not change.
Cracker is not the weakest that would obviously be Snack. On top of that Cracker has better showings then Smoothie anyways.


1.Jozu landed a surprise attack as well did Luffy. Even Crocodile did the same to Akainu. Anyone of Warlord level are able to do that, so I don't count it. Sabo on the other hand fought Issho one on one.
2.There isn't any scratches or fatigued. I just showed you a page of Sabo's condition with no scratches on his face and you're telling me that it was the opposite? What is wrong with you?
He received no scratches period. Not a single attack landed so deal with it.

So honestly what part of "comparable" didn't you understand? I already categorized Marco to be in the same level as Dogtooth and all the feats I just listed proved that Sabo is above the like of the levels that are latter down.
His feats are comparable and he's shown to stalemate an admiral. You're speculation to whether he is serious or not is as baseless as your ideal of what you want the Admirals to be.
Like I said before, they stalemated. Issho failed to land a single hit on Sabo and the page I posted earlier proves this regardless if you want to dignify it or not.
And if you want to see another person that hurt an Admiral without assistance, look at what Rayleigh did to Kizaru.

Hes not Kaidos right hand man, the viz translation states explicitly that he is one out of the three closest associates of kaido, one of the disasters, he was never Kaidos right hand man. You're still referring to the old mistranslated scans that got debunked a year ago, I thought everyone knew this already?

He holds a billion bounty because the Kaidos pirates are a reckless, suicidal crew that just destroys shit on a whim, its not like bounties mean anything anyway, Jack despite that high bounty probably still holds a lower bounty than King or Queen.

Cracker is the weakest out of the three Sweet Commanders, i wasnt referring to Snack because when we were introduced to the SC he was demoted. Fact of the matter is both Jack and Cracker are no.3 in their respective crews. and so are the weakest out of the three.

Lol why are there so many people butthurt about Smoothie? Just because she hasnt done much yet doesnt mean she is weak, she most likely isnt getting feats because if she had actually done her job then this whole escape plan would have failed miserably.Because afterall, she is a SC and nobody on the island besides Luffy would be strong enough to fight her, but he was occupied with Katakuri, and you see what happened to Cracker who had to be taken out early, now imagine if all the SC were here right now. Oda knows this and as an excuse has wrote her to be a lazy character to give Luffy and co a chance to save Sanji.

1.Jozu landed a surprise attack but he was in a prolonged fight with an Admiral just like Sabo was, only losing when he turned his back. Crocodile didnt do anything to Akainu, Fujitora had his guard up and was still bruised from that EG from Luffy.
2. I like how you blatantly ignore all the scratches and bruises he had on all the other pages just to suit you're argument that you clearly know is wrong. You cant show me one scan and then act as if the others clearly dont exist.

He fought an Admiral , thats it, nothing more. Him and Marco didnt do jack to those Admirals thats all they have in common, and Luffy and Jozu did as well. Sabo isnt any more comparable to Marco and Katakuri than those guys are. Except unlike Sabo, those guys didnt just get their fruits. Marco was the WSMs top commander with decades of experience his fruit, which is one of the most OP in the series. Katakuri is also avetrean who is BMs strongest chile, who is proficient with all three types of Haki, and has the best CoO in the series so far. Sabo is a novice, he doesnt deserve the benefit of the doubt above those guys.

I knew you were going to bring up Rayleigh, hes a haki master for one, even in old age is probably still stronger than any FM and even that slash didnt prove to be very effective against Kizaru.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Hes not Kaidos right hand man, the viz translation states explicitly that he is one out of the three closest associates of kaido, one of the disasters, he was never Kaidos right hand man. You're still referring to the old mistranslated scans that got debunked a year ago, I thought everyone knew this already?

Post the viz page

He holds a billion bounty because the Kaidos pirates are a reckless, suicidal crew that just destroys shit on a whim, its not like bounties mean anything anyway, Jack despite that high bounty probably still holds a lower bounty than King or Queen.

You just listed the characteristic of every other pirate ship so that means nothing. King or Queen stuff is still a speculation at this point, don't talk as if it's already an established fact.

Cracker is the weakest out of the three Sweet Commanders, i wasnt referring to Snack because when we were introduced to the SC he was demoted. Fact of the matter is both Jack and Cracker are no.3 in their respective crews. and so are the weakest out of the three.

Another speculation. Smoothie is featless.

Lol why are there so many people butthurt about Smoothie? Just because she hasnt done much yet doesnt mean she is weak, she most likely isnt getting feats because if she had actually done her job then this whole escape plan would have failed miserably.Because afterall, she is a SC and nobody on the island besides Luffy would be strong enough to fight her, but he was occupied with Katakuri, and you see what happened to Cracker who had to be taken out early, now imagine if all the SC were here right now. Oda knows this and as an excuse has wrote her to be a lazy character to give Luffy and co a chance to save Sanji.

You're the only one that's getting butthurt over a featless character, so you can give all the excuses you want for smoothie but the point is that she did nothing. She was there in the beginning of the Totland arc watching the strawhats and she did nothing but watch them go to Pudding's place. Jinbei is right there btw.

1.Jozu landed a surprise attack but he was in a prolonged fight with an Admiral just like Sabo was, only losing when he turned his back. Crocodile didnt do anything to Akainu, Fujitora had his guard up and was still bruised from that EG from Luffy.

Well that's wrong because he then attack Crocodile shortly after. Crocodile did do something, his devil fruit held the advantage and it took him a while to change back in shape after Crcodile's attack.
No one had a prolong fight with an Admiral except for Sabo. Luffy got one-shot by Raging Tiger after hitting Isshou with a blindside attack. That argument is as pointless as Jozu blindsiding Crocodile and Kuzan.

2. I like how you blatantly ignore all the scratches and bruises he had on all the other pages just to suit you're argument that you clearly know is wrong. You cant show me one scan and then act as if the others clearly dont exist.

There was no scratches or bruises you're just being stubborn. I literally said that he had dirt patches all over his face and you're conjuring up bullshit. Post one scan of a single scratch on his face because you either playing dumb or naturally this ignorant.

He fought an Admiral , thats it, nothing more. Him and Marco didnt do jack to those Admirals thats all they have in common, and Luffy and Jozu did as well. Sabo isnt any more comparable to Marco and Katakuri than those guys are. Except unlike Sabo, those guys didnt just get their fruits. Marco was the WSMs top commander with decades of experience his fruit, which is one of the most OP in the series. Katakuri is also avetrean who is BMs strongest chile, who is proficient with all three types of Haki, and has the best CoO in the series so far. Sabo is a novice, he doesnt deserve the benefit of the doubt above those guys.

No. there is no such thing as nothing more after the list of people I just told you he beat in the dressrosa arc. You shouldn't be acting this illiterate unless you have a serious problem.
And last time I checked Sabo had more feats in one arc than Marco did, so to say that it's not comparable is foolish. Dogtooth's only battle feats is going to a high diff fight with Luffy, that's it.
1. You don't know the type of experience Marco has
2. Saying Sabo is a novice is probably the most senseless part of your argument because a novice doesn't just overwhelm a yonkou first mate like that with Haki alone but it also doesn't stalemate a freaking Admiral in a fight. Sabo's been using Haki longer than Luffy has as well as went out to sea with Dragon longer than Ace has. So I would not repeat that mistake again
3. Dogtooth's observation haki feats have nothing to do with fighting feats on a higher level if that opponent he's using it against is just Luffy.

I knew you were going to bring up Rayleigh, hes a haki master for one, even in old age is probably still stronger than any FM and even that slash didnt prove to be very effective against Kizaru.

That slash clearly proved that it was super effective against Kizaru since it not only stopped but prevented him from using Sacred Yata Mirror again. And on top of that Kizaru wasn't able to land a serious blow on Rayleigh who was too busy trying to figure out a way to save the straw hats.
So you're wrong on that account too.

 

[OG sama]

Post the viz page

You just listed the characteristic of every other pirate ship so that means nothing. King or Queen stuff is still a speculation at this point, don't talk as if it's already an established fact.


Another speculation. Smoothie is featless.

You're the only one that's getting butthurt over a featless character, so you can give all the excuses you want for smoothie but the point is that she did nothing. She was there in the beginning of the Totland arc watching the strawhats and she did nothing but watch them go to Pudding's place. Jinbei is right there btw.


Well that's wrong because he then attack Crocodile shortly after. Crocodile did do something, his devil fruit held the advantage and it took him a while to change back in shape after Crcodile's attack.
No one had a prolong fight with an Admiral except for Sabo. Luffy got one-shot by Raging Tiger after hitting Isshou with a blindside attack. That argument is as pointless as Jozu blindsiding Crocodile and Kuzan.


There was no scratches or bruises you're just being stubborn. I literally said that he had dirt patches all over his face and you're conjuring up bullshit. Post one scan of a single scratch on his face because you either playing dumb or naturally this ignorant.

No. there is no such thing as nothing more after the list of people I just told you he beat in the dressrosa arc. You shouldn't be acting this illiterate unless you have a serious problem.
And last time I checked Sabo had more feats in one arc than Marco did, so to say that it's not comparable is foolish. Dogtooth's only battle feats is going to a high diff fight with Luffy, that's it.
1. You don't know the type of experience Marco has
2. Saying Sabo is a novice is probably the most senseless part of your argument because a novice doesn't just overwhelm a yonkou first mate like that with Haki alone but it also doesn't stalemate a freaking Admiral in a fight. Sabo's been using Haki longer than Luffy has as well as went out to sea with Dragon longer than Ace has. So I would not repeat that mistake again
3. Dogtooth's observation haki feats have nothing to do with fighting feats on a higher level if that opponent he's using it against is just Luffy.

That slash clearly proved that it was super effective against Kizaru since it not only stopped but prevented him from using Sacred Yata Mirror again. And on top of that Kizaru wasn't able to land a serious blow on Rayleigh who was too busy trying to figure out a way to save the straw hats.
So you're wrong on that account too.

I cant copy and paste on this crap computer im using, just type in,"Jack is not Kaidos right hand man," and you will see the viz in that first website that pops up, which is Narutoforums.

No i didnt, not every pirate crew is like the Kaido pirates thats BS, Jack literally tried to fight a very respected VA, a former fleet Admiral, and a current Admiral by himself. Name me a single crew so far that does that shit.

So just because shes featless shes weak? Thats some very dumb ass logic, how in the hell is she going to be weaker than Cracker if she has no feats to be judged off of anyway? How are you going to know shes weaker? Thats just like me saying someone cant fight because i havent seen them do it.

Crocodile didnt do shit to Akainu thats a fact, you call me stubborn but yet here you are. Nobody with eyes is stupid enough to have seen that moment in the manga and thought that Croc did anything to Akainu. Akainu is a logia, you can split or break a logia all you want but it means nothing if you cant hurt them. Hell Luffy broke Kuzan into a bunch of pieces pre skip, and Apoo sliced Kizaru up, it means nothing if you cant damage there real bodies directly. I shouldnt even have to explain this to you.

Luffy was holding his own while still not fully healed with bandages on his body and wasnt even using G4, yet he still managed to bruise Fujitora despite him having his guard up, Sabo couldnt even do that and he was in a much better condition. Luffy only went flying by raging tiger because he took the attack point blank, he was literally on Fujitora when he used that attack whereas Sabo was much farther away.

WTF, there were plenty of scratches on his face in that battle, dont act ****ing dumb, thats not dirt, prove to me how thats dirt? Im not being stubborn youre the one ignoring the clear as day scratches and bruises that were on his face and you purposely left that out to suit youre argument.

Hes a novice with his DF thats what i was saying. And get off Sabos ****, Katakuri has been way more impressive than him and wtf does losing to Luffy have to do with anything? Katakuri is stronger than Sabo and has way better feats, if he loses to Luffy, its because Luffy is that strong. Sabo isnt stronger than this current Luffy if thats what youre thinking so no point in downplaying Katakuri. Sabo doesnt even know how to use his fruit properly yet hes going to beat a guy who has awakened his fruit for one thing but is a master of all three types of Haki and has the best CoO in the series allowing him to see into the future? Yeah gtfo with this garbage ass argument. Youre overrating the hell out of someone that didnt do shit to an admiral and his best feat is beating ****ing burgess. And if you think Burgess is stronger than Shiryuu than your retarded, Jesus Burgess probably isnt even BBs fourth strongest crew member right now.

It was enough to stop Kizaru momentarily but it didnt do any lasting damage like i said.