~So let me try to understand this character Naruto Uzumaki~

[JustSomeDerp]

For pete's sake even the dead (Minato) didn't hold a grudge, what more the living (Naruto) ?

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that is also a good point.

 

[akuh]

for people saying naruto forgiving the person "obito" who killed his family...what about sasuke >>>> killed itachi then feels sorry for doing so seeing that itachi cared for him.... same as you i don't understand this sasugay character..

 

[MAN OF SIN]

Why is Nagato treatment handled much better than Obito?

Naruto handle both of them the same. Why are people missing this.
Are you guys just choosing to forget cause it will go against your guys logic.

1. Both Nagato and Obito killed people.
2.Wanted peace in their own way.
3. Naruto told them both that he will never forgive them but won't kill over hate.
4. After they heard naruto speech they both tried to revive those that were killed,only one succeeded.

Wrong.

1. Nagato didn't attack his own village, killed his friends and family without remorse like Obito.
2. Obito's path was selfish, unlike Nagato's. Naruto even said that. He just wanted to be with Rin.
3. Naruto wanted Obito to face his punishment. Which was death.
4. Obito turned a new leaf only after he got an ass beating and went "I lost, I must be wrong" logic.

 

[~WastelandSociety~]

Wrong.

1. Nagato didn't attack his own village, killed his friends and family without remorse like Obito.
2. Obito's path was selfish, unlike Nagato's. Naruto even said that. He just wanted to be with Rin.
3. Naruto wanted Obito to face his punishment. Which was death.
4. Obito turned a new leaf only after he got an ass beating and went "I lost, I must be wrong" logic.

You're not right either.

1. He killed Jiraiya, who not only was a teacher but a friend... A uncle figure in a way. Jiraiya, helped train ,raised and feed them.
He stabbed Jiraiya several times in the back and then let his body become lost in the sea.
Then he destroyed Konohagakure killing innocent people all cause he thinks he's god and in order to be peace people need to fear pain.

And he did attack his own village to become the leader.

Concealing his true body in the shadows,and becoming a "god" to Amegakure's people, Pain solidified his leadership by systematically killing anyone who had ties to the former leader, from friends and family to ambassadors from other ninja villages.

2. In a way Nagato trying to achieve his way of peace was selfish.
3.same with Nagato.

4. Same with Nagato.

 

[Floydical]

The only reason this happened was because Kishi needed Obito for plot reasons. He needed Obito to align with Naruto and co. to save Sasuke from the other dimension. That is the only reason Kishi kept him around this long. Naruto forgiving him and praising him was inevitable as soon as Obito joined the good side. It is to be expected of Naruto's character. If you found it surprising than you obviously weren't paying attention to Naruto's character up to this point.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

You're not right either.

1. He killed Jiraiya, who not only was a teacher but a friend... A uncle figure in a way. Jiraiya, helped train ,raised and feed them.
He stabbed Jiraiya several times in the back and then let his body become lost in the sea.
Then he destroyed Konohagakure killing innocent people all cause he thinks he's god and in order to be peace people need to fear pain.

And he did attack his own village to become the leader.

2. In a way Nagato trying to achieve his way of peace was selfish.
3.same with Nagato.

4. Same with Nagato.

1. That's Nagato trying to kill certain individuals, not destroy the whole village. Nagato killed Jiraya because he invaded the rain village and wanted to stop his plans. Obito tried to kill everyone in his village because it was fun.
2. Naruto didn't consider it selfish.

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3. So he wanted them killed.
4. No, it was Naruto pulling out Jiraiya book that made him turn over a new Leaf.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

Why is Nagato treatment handled much better than Obito?

Naruto handle both of them the same. Why are people missing this.
Are you guys just choosing to forget cause it will go against your guys logic.

1. Both Nagato and Obito killed people.
2.Wanted peace in their own way.
3. Naruto told them both that he will never forgive them but won't kill over hate.
4. After they heard naruto speech they both tried to revive those that were killed,only one succeeded.

Naruto never forgave Nagato unlike Obito. Naruto just let go of the past and all the bad things Nagato did in order to pursuit his ideal peace and was willing to let Nagato because he was hell bent on breaking the cycle of hatred, but he still didn't forgive Nagato as stated by himself.

He even said he hated him. He had shown his sign of grudge to Nagato. Naruto then feel sympathy and given respect for him at the moment of his death because he realized what a sorry existence he led and willing to sacrifice to restored the villagers which make up his sins but still not enough when he killed Jiriaya but it's better than What Obito did. This is Probably the only thing he did right on that particular TnJ.

Unlike Nagato, Naruto went on to idealize and praises Obito like a lovey dovey person and then being way over sentimental when he dies just because he changed the way he used to be, doesn't give the right to excuse. Naruto willing to admire Obito to brush away their previous actions and accept them as companions. The difference between Obito and Nagato is that Obito killed thousand of people in the war, destroyed your village including your parents which turned your life to Shit, started the Akatsuki which leads Pain destroyed your village and killed your sensei and include one of your friends in the War just an hour ago.

How is it admirable to say that he started a war and killed countless people regardless if he wanted to become Hokage and make up the good that he once was .

Even when Obito turned good to help Naruto and his companion to defeat Madara&Kaguya, this doesn't make up all the sins he committed when he was just an enemy who declared the 4th war just a moment ago, how can anyone forgive an enemy for such a short amount of time??

Overall Nagato did more justified than Obito.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

To admire the part who was not a murderer but put himself in the way of harm protecting others.

What you miss is that :the one that wanted to be hokage was called awesome not the one who wanted to live in a dream world pretending everything was ok. That part of Obito got beaten up.

The context and who the message was intended for is important here. Too many people have a valid reason to not forgive Tobi. But BZ is not one of them, for he manipulated him into it. Whatever Obito did, he was dead and died with realization and heap or personal regrets. BZ is alive, mean, and cruel and out of all people he shouldn't be slandering his dead/dying victims. Thus his comments were not acceptable.

Despite all, Obito didn't try to blame Black Zetsu for his own actions nor he tried to play for forgiveness from Naruto and alliance. He helped because he decided to mend somethings he ruined. Whether they were going to treat him better for it or not was not his concern. He accepted he committed crimes and it's punishment.

Naruto showed him kindness despite the grief he caused him and for that he was grateful. That statement doesn't negate anything bad Obito did. That's just Naruto being Naruto- letting go of the bad and tackling the still existing evil in front.

How would you end a cycle if you do not do something different from others and break a loop?

Even though he thinks the hokage are awesome and thanking him just because did everything to heal his ass are still selfis to feel over sympathy to Obito which still gets in the way of all the bad things he's done in the past because our standards clearly don't apply to a world where killing and then to easily forgive can be seen as Honorable and acceptable job, but commited all the wrong thing of the same nature is simultaneously unacceptable. Naruto forgiving Obito is unrealistic by these standards of the series.

It doesn`t matter which Obito he admired, It is still trash to say that he admired someone who killed Neji, and destroyed your life. He is still talking to the same person, despite which Obito you are trying to refer, it is still Obito, and what Obito did is despicable. In this chapter He brushed away all of Obito action and has become unrealistic emotional strength to forgive anyone who has caused him pain, without a second thought and the fact that Naruto can admire and cling onto his wishes makes him even more delusional and selfish.

If Obito lived, I can gurantee that Naruto will let him free of prison, and not care about the opinion of others who suffered from Obito's corruption.

Although I will say this that you do brought up a point when someone like Black Zetsu slandering the dead, his own comrade, normally a Shonen Protagonist would feel over emotional rage to villain, but this still doesn't give the right to show his Kindness to Obito who had ruined his life, if he's going to let go of his past just for the sake of breaking endless hate of cycle, then he shouldn't feel compassion to Obito which is why the way Naruto treated to Nagato was better, and even he still shown the sign of his grief, furthermore, Nagato was more justified than Obito.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

'The coolest guy' was an exaggeration on MP's part.
Also, what you guys forget is that Obito saved the lives of the members of Team 7 all individually(

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), thus proving his changed path and the desire to assist Naruto in saving the world. Obito dying, turning into ashes right in the hands of Naruto with a smile on his face and the words of him being sure that the latter would eventually become Hokage was what triggered Naruto's emotion and tears. It's never too late to change and one should receive the sympathy if the change is sincere. That's what happened between Obito and Naruto and that exactly is something too far to be called 'poor writing'.
For me, both steps with Nagato and Obito were handled well, maintaining the concept of a savior of the main character, the concept of the one who'd finally sever the chain of hatred.

Obito saving and helped team 7 against Kaguya&Madara still doesn't make all the wrongdoing he committed in the past, it's still wrong for Naruto to feel over sentimental for Obito just because he changed and admiring Obito because he wanting to become Hokage is awesome and consider him as his companion implies his disrespect to his dead comrades and his friends. You can feel sympathy to his death with how sorry existence led to him but to idealize him is completely wrong. Atleast What Nagato did is that he did way less bad things than what Obito did, furthmore, he restored all the villages which may not make up all the bad things, but atleast he did more justifiable than Obito did. The way Naruto treated to Obito is beyond selfish, it's nothing to compare to Nagato.

 

[~WastelandSociety~]

1. That's Nagato trying to kill certain individuals, not destroy the whole village. Nagato killed Jiraya because he invaded the rain village and wanted to stop his plans. Obito tried to kill everyone in his village because it was fun.
2. Naruto didn't consider it selfish.

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3. So he wanted them killed.
4. No, it was Naruto pulling out Jiraiya book that made him turn over a new Leaf.

1.
Still the same thing.
He killed those family,friends,etc (innocent or not) that had ties to the past leader.
Point is he killed his former teacher along with anyone else that got in his way with no remorse.
But later on realized he was wrong.

2.
Naruto didn't say anything about Nagato not being selfish. Just in his heart he wanted peace.
Nagato ways in achieving peace was kinda selfish.
He was only focusing on his own interest of peace and didn't care about other people feelings towards his goal.
If you don't follow him as a "God" then you will know pain.

3. Yep

4.
Same with Obito. Naruto made him remember who he was that helped him turn a new leaf and by breaking his Curse of Hatered.


But to the whole point of the topic of this thread. Did Naruto forgave Obito. No.
Was it wrong for naruto to express emotions to his enemy. No.
Cause Obito is like Naruto. They both had the same dream and views.
Both was consumed by hate but only one took a different path.

From my understanding to Narutos reaction was that he was sadden that someone like him ended up into a evil person that was being used as a tool for someone else goals yet died alone in the end.
Does that means he forgave him. Again,no.

This conversation should have ended a long time ago.
So I'll just stop here,and leave you guys be.

 

[Dannie]

The only reason this happened was because Kishi needed Obito for plot reasons. He needed Obito to align with Naruto and co. to save Sasuke from the other dimension. That is the only reason Kishi kept him around this long. Naruto forgiving him and praising him was inevitable as soon as Obito joined the good side. It is to be expected of Naruto's character. If you found it surprising than you obviously weren't paying attention to Naruto's character up to this point.

If I see flaws in a character, it doesn't mean that I'm not paying attention. In fact, it means that I am paying attention and the people who are missing it are not.

Naruto's character was always meant to be lovey dovey and full of forgiveness but he still shouldn't be admiring someone of that caliber. It's not even about forgiveness anymore, but more so the fact that he displayed tears from his eyes and even told BZ to not badmouth him, on top of that he called him cool. Three instances that should not have happened at all and made Naruto look like an idiot. He forgave Nagato but he never once cried over him. He never told anyone to not badmouth Nagato. He never called Nagato 'cool" either. He just respected Nagato. His stupid kneeling and care for Obito is stupid and childish and made Naruto's character plummet with every page.

So no, I have been paying attention. Maybe you should pay attention and stop asserting stupid equations that don't even match.

 

[Avani]

Even though he thinks the hokage are awesome and thanking him just because did everything to heal his ass are still selfis to feel over sympathy to Obito which still gets in the way of all the bad things he's done in the past because our standards clearly don't apply to a world where killing and then to easily forgive can be seen as Honorable and acceptable job, but commited all the wrong thing of the same nature is simultaneously unacceptable. Naruto forgiving Obito is unrealistic by these standards of the series.

Actually that's fits very much with the whole point of the series. To break the cycle of hate, conquering your own hate, understanding from where your enemy was coming from and forgiving each other and moving on. We have seen it throughout the series.

It doesn`t matter which Obito he admired, It is still trash to say that he admired someone who killed Neji, and destroyed your life. He is still talking to the same person, despite which Obito you are trying to refer, it is still Obito, and what Obito did is despicable. In this chapter He brushed away all of Obito action and has become unrealistic emotional strength to forgive anyone who has caused him pain, without a second thought and the fact that Naruto can admire and cling onto his wishes makes him even more delusional and selfish.

It's a fantasy- it's going to advocate for ideals. You may disagree about whom the hero should forgive or not but it's nothing to do with realism because it's your opinion vs the message author wants to give. Just different POVs and ethical values.

If Obito lived, I can gurantee that Naruto will let him free of prison, and not care about the opinion of others who suffered from Obito's corruption.

Well it won't be fair unless we are going to penalize all the culprits of war that way. Then Sasuke would end up in prison too. Either way he died so what would Naruto do if he was alive wouldn't matter much. If he forgives then he forgives.

However you should realize that joining a fight and dying on the battlefield theme has often used by warriors to redeem their honour throughout the history as well as the classical literature. I don't know why people are making such a big deal out of it unless of course they are unaware of how the world used to be.

Narutoverse is not set in 2014 in our universe even if it mixes old historical/traditional/religious values with modern thinking. But the hate is something still all around even with globalization. Most countries have something against another and everyone feels they are justified in their reasoning. One cannot cross the bridge if they do not recognize the reconciling efforts made by the other party.

At this point Obito couldn't do more than this.

Although I will say this that you do brought up a point when someone like Black Zetsu slandering the dead, his own comrade, normally a Shonen Protagonist would feel over emotional rage to villain, but this still doesn't give the right to show his Kindness to Obito who had ruined his life, if he's going to let go of his past just for the sake of breaking endless hate of cycle, then he shouldn't feel compassion to Obito which is why the way Naruto treated to Nagato was better, and even he still shown the sign of his grief, furthermore, Nagato was more justified than Obito.

Anyone has a right to show kindness to anyone. That one right cannot be denied. Especially at least for personal injuries.
It's very personal sentiment. You cannot dictate personal feelings.

Frankly, for a hateful person that is if Obito had remained so, chances are forgiveness would have been quite annoying. They both acknowledged each others' gesture.

 

[Angelic.]

From my understanding to Narutos reaction was that he was sadden that someone like him ended up into a evil person that was being used as a tool for someone else goals yet died alone in the end.
Does that means he forgave him. Again,no.

thats how i saw it too. naruto felt some kind of regret that things had turned out the way they did and that obito was alone.

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madara was obitos anti jaraiya. using him and wanting to take back what he left to him.

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[MAN OF SIN]

1.
Still the same thing.
He killed those family,friends,etc (innocent or not) that had ties to the past leader.
Point is he killed his former teacher along with anyone else that got in his way with no remorse.
But later on realized he was wrong.

2.
Naruto didn't say anything about Nagato not being selfish. Just in his heart he wanted peace.
Nagato ways in achieving peace was kinda selfish.
He was only focusing on his own interest of peace and didn't care about other people feelings towards his goal.
If you don't follow him as a "God" then you will know pain.

3. Yep

4.
Same with Obito. Naruto made him remember who he was that helped him turn a new leaf and by breaking his Curse of Hatered.


But to the whole point of the topic of this thread. Did Naruto forgave Obito. No.
Was it wrong for naruto to express emotions to his enemy. No.
Cause Obito is like Naruto. They both had the same dream and views.
Both was consumed by hate but only one took a different path.

From my understanding to Narutos reaction was that he was sadden that someone like him ended up into a evil person that was being used as a tool for someone else goals yet died alone in the end.
Does that means he forgave him. Again,no.

This conversation should have ended a long time ago.
So I'll just stop here,and leave you guys be.

1. It's not the same thing. Obito tried to destroy his village because it was fun to him. Nagato didn't show that he had a fun time doing what he did.

2. If what he wanted was peace than it isn't selfish at all. Naruto even says that they him and Obito are different.

3. Which means crying over his death makes no logical sense.

4. No, it was because he lost and thought he was wrong because of it. Naruto tried talking to him but Obito choose to choke him.


No, Naruto thinks Obito is nothing but awesome. So, he forgave him and it's poor writing.

Concession accepted.

 

[From the Dark Spire]

Thank you my friend. Naruto isn't a good character,
*Unrealistic (For reasons pointed out in the OP
*Hotheaded,( Had a period over a mass murderer)
*Over dramatic,(Cry's over a mass murderer)
*Boring (TNJ)
*Anti Climatic (Try's to save a mass murderer who should've died long ago)
*Doesn't want to accept the harsh truth about death.
*Self Centred

He's pretty much the anime version of John Cena.

 

[Aquaglow]

You did'nt give any in favor options for voting. They are all kind of against Obito! But let me say it is very hard to forgive someone that cause you so much pain but a great man/woman is that person who has the capacity to forgive his enemy when he has full power to over take the enemy! This shows that Naruto doesn't hold personal grudges against anyone. He truly is a great guy!

 

[lokssa]

I agree, it is not easy to be cool. But naruto has learned this when fighting with Pain. Revenge will only increase hatred, it will never end.

 

[marksonm]

He has already seen Obito's heart when he was pulling out the tailed beasts so he knows everything about Obito, so he can see that the guy was being manipulated by none other than Madara and thus Black Zetsu.

Then by the time Naruto convinced him with the slightest light in his heart, from that moment he believed in Naruto. He also saved Naruto's life if not for that move of putting Dark Kurama, and Eight + One tail chakra, Naruto would be dead and would never have met the Sage of 6 Paths… so Naruto owes his current state to Obito.

Also, Naruto has removed every darkness in his heart so he can forgive him easily and he is mature enough to realise that every action Obito suffered was from the darkness in his heart like Sasuke and Naruto is away that all those things have already happened and can't be changed… so it is wise to move on. Btw it helped him become who he is now.

Also, he has helped to save Sasuke who might have been killed meaning that they won't be able to seal Kaguya, which means the rest of his comrades and villagers are as good as dead.

Forgiving him was the best way forward and the worst enemy is right in front of him plus the true exploiter which is Black Zetsu whom he should take his anger out on, because without Black Zetsu changing the writing on the Uchiha stones everybody will be at peace. There will be no Akatsuki.

My prediction is that Naruto will kill Black Zetsu and Kaguya will go crazy and change into a monster, which is when the Hokages will assemble to help out.

 

[Akx19]

Mercy: Not receiving what you deserve
Grace: Receiving what you don't deserve.

Naruto showed him mercy by not killing him. Naruto showed him Grace by forgiving him. The truth is, Naruto sees Obito as an adult version of himself. They lived nearly identical lives with nearly identical ideals. Naruto could have very easily been Obito given the right circumstances. And likewise Obito could have very easily been Naruto given the right circumstances.

Naruto feels a kinship with Obito that he hasn't with most other characters. In essence, despite how terrible the acts, Obito made Naruto who he is today. And the fact that Obito woke up, became the man he once was, stood up for what was right and in the end, saved Naruto paving the way for the future...He earned Naruto's respect, a place in his heart, and therefore his un-waivering passion.

And we all know when Naruto is fighting for those he loves or is empathetic with, No one can stop him.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

He has already seen Obito's heart when he was pulling out the tailed beasts so he knows everything about Obito, so he can see that the guy was being manipulated by none other than Madara and thus Black Zetsu.

Then by the time Naruto convinced him with the slightest light in his heart, from that moment he believed in Naruto. He also saved Naruto's life if not for that move of putting Dark Kurama, and Eight + One tail chakra, Naruto would be dead and would never have met the Sage of 6 Paths… so Naruto owes his current state to Obito.

Also, Naruto has removed every darkness in his heart so he can forgive him easily and he is mature enough to realise that every action Obito suffered was from the darkness in his heart like Sasuke and Naruto is away that all those things have already happened and can't be changed… so it is wise to move on. Btw it helped him become who he is now.

Also, he has helped to save Sasuke who might have been killed meaning that they won't be able to seal Kaguya, which means the rest of his comrades and villagers are as good as dead.

Forgiving him was the best way forward and the worst enemy is right in front of him plus the true exploiter which is Black Zetsu whom he should take his anger out on, because without Black Zetsu changing the writing on the Uchiha stones everybody will be at peace. There will be no Akatsuki.

My prediction is that Naruto will kill Black Zetsu and Kaguya will go crazy and change into a monster, which is when the Hokages will assemble to help out.

Actually, Naruto right after getting into Obito's head said that he wouldn't forgive him. What he did in this chapter made no sense.

Mercy: Not receiving what you deserve
Grace: Receiving what you don't deserve.

Naruto showed him mercy by not killing him. Naruto showed him Grace by forgiving him. The truth is, Naruto sees Obito as an adult version of himself. They lived nearly identical lives with nearly identical ideals. Naruto could have very easily been Obito given the right circumstances. And likewise Obito could have very easily been Naruto given the right circumstances.

Naruto feels a kinship with Obito that he hasn't with most other characters. In essence, despite how terrible the acts, Obito made Naruto who he is today. And the fact that Obito woke up, became the man he once was, stood up for what was right and in the end, saved Naruto paving the way for the future...He earned Naruto's respect, a place in his heart, and therefore his un-waivering passion.

And we all know when Naruto is fighting for those he loves or is empathetic with, No one can stop him.

Actually, Naruto wanted to face his punishment which was death and said he wouldn't forgive him. His "kinship" is pretty weak. They both wanted to be hokage and was orphan. So what? As was Orochimaru.

What he did this chapter is a huge contradiction to this.

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