So I finally saw the Boruto Movie

Meowazziel

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Offtopic, but I want to add something here.
Kishimoto also could've made Madara lose because of his arrogance and him not taking Sasuke/Naruto seriously. This would still not be perfect, but at least better than having this Ootsutsuki nonsense and multiple plot holes.
There are no Ootsutsuki plot holes.
You may not like the Ootsutsuki introduction, but there are no plotholes regarding them.
Besides, many others like them (including me).

It would be odd imo if a mere normal human, would all of a sudden become as powerful as Hagoromo
and defeat something like the Juubi.

However Hagoromo and Hamura were already very powerful at birth, having the alien Kaguya as mother, who had consumed the fruit of the Shinju.

I think its cool that among shinobi, there are those with powers that are descended from Kaguya and her sons.
Basically alien powers and Shinju powers, have mixed with part of the human race.

That makes the story more interesting for me.
Gives it more depth.
More mystery.
Opens up more possibilities for the Boruto manga and movies too.
 

Meowazziel

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I mentioned the plotholes earlier, look them up please :)
I meant the plotholes that the entire alien-shit created.

- Kaguya was never mentioned before, whereas she ruled the lands and caused fear among the people. It makes no sense that someone like her is completely forgotten by mankind. It is just bad writing when the author introduces a character like her in the last 7% of the story (700 chapter in total, Kaguya was introduced in chapter 646) without legit connections to the story.

- How could the Ootsutsuki, or at least Toneri, on the moon not notice that Madara summoned the Gedo Mazo to earth? It was their mission to look after the statue, so that Kaguya could not come back again.

- How could Hagoromo become the Juubis jinchuuriki, if he and Hamura sealed Kaguya (who was the Juubi) immediately and created the moon with the "Six-Paths Chibaku Tensei"?
Okay, let us imagine that he only took the chakra, right?
Then tell me.. how could Hagoromo survive the creation of the Bijuu?
After Obito lost the Bijuu-chakra, Kurama stated that he would not die from the extraction because he still has the Gedo Mazo. Kurama said that was the same way how Hagoromo survived the creation of the Bijuu.
But you see, it is not possible because Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the statue immediately into the moon.
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- Black Zetsu as the "mastermind" also makes zero sense.
He said, he rewrote the stone tablet which was left behind be Hagoromo.. but how could he do that, without being able to read it in the first place? Only one with the Rinnegan is able to read the whole tablet. Black Zetsu never had a Rinnegan or at least Mangekyou Sharingan or a normal Sharingan. I would like to see you rewrite a text that you can't even read yourself.
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Kishimoto retconned his entire manga-story in the very last chapters, to find a half-baked way for Kaguya and the Ootsutsuki to fit in.
That is very bad writing, nothing more, nothing less.

If you still don't see the plotholes, then there is no hope for you.
Those are not plotholes.

Some corrections:

Sasuke isnt mentioned either on the stone writings of the war, where they talk about the hero Naruto.
Even though that is only several years ago. Sasuke might be forgotten over time by history by many.
Moreso than for Naruto at least.

The Juubi attack on Naruto's birth, talks about Minato. Not about all that Hiruzen did in that attack.

The sage of the six paths Hagoromo, wasnt even remembered by everyone and the few that had heard about him thought he was a myth.

Nagato/Pain, took down Hanzo's reign and lead the rain. Yet the villagers were shrouded in mystery who was leading them
and stories regarding it.

So its not weird that Kaguya over thousands years, was forgotten by history, except for some (like Madara).

Maybe some have actually heard about her, but over time, considered it a myth like story, just as has happened with Hagoromo (even though many dont even know about him).

The Ootsutsuki clan on the moon had already killed themselfs off when Madara summoned the Gedo Mazo.
Toneri was the last one remaining, nor did he really care for the people earth (wanted to destroy them) and as the movie showed he misinterpreted Hamura's views, so the whole protecting the gedo is in the past.
Things can change over time.

Your scan regarding the Gedo Mazo, the 9 bijou and the moon does not show a plothole either.
Just because Hagoromo did it all imediately in one go in Naruto and Sasuke's fight, does not have to mean that he did it the same way in his own time.
He wasnt a jinchuriki in Naruto and Sasuke's fight and the bijou had already been created, so the situation was different.

In the past Hamura and Hagoromo sealed the tentails in Hagoromo and some time later (not immediately) Hagoromo created the 9 beasts and the gedo, which became sealed in the moon eventually.
Hamura didnt leave imediately after the fight either.
He left some time later before his brother Hagoromo's death. Who was gonna die, because the gedo was sealed in the moon (out of Hagoromo).

Black Zetsu can record time and even show recordings to others.
He is created from Kaguya's will (who has the Sharinnegan). Its not odd or surprising that he too has tablet reading and modifying powers.

Here my explanation why they are not plotholes.
 
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Meowazziel

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Jeez, the positives were simple one liners and the negatives were near paragraphs. That's Naruto for you :sdo:
Thats just someone's view for you.
Not everyone views it the same as the op.

Also as shown there have been several misinterpretations and overlookings and such in this thread.
Which lead to some wrong conclusions.
 

Meowazziel

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Offtopic, but I want to add something here.
Kishimoto also could've made Madara lose because of his arrogance and him not taking Sasuke/Naruto seriously. This would still not be perfect, but at least better than having this Ootsutsuki nonsense
I wouldnt call it nonsense.

Kishi draws inspiration from lots of things.
Myths, religions, budhism and such.
The Rabbit on the moon (Rabbit like ears on some Otsutsuki like Kaguya and the moon where Hamura and his kind went to live), the tale of the bamboo cutter (about a princess Kaguya), The tree of life and the forbidden fruit that Eve (a woman) ate
and there are several more stories like this that Kishi drew inspiration from.

At times you can predict the direction that Kishi will move to, if you know such stories.

Also with that in mind, to me the Otsutsuki are an addition that made the series better.
I find it more interesting for the story that god like powers and people not from earth, have influenced the shinobi world and that there are those on earth who have descended from them.

Meeting Hagoromo and the extra info he provided
also explained how Ashura and Indra's chakra (Hagoromo) was needed to unlock Rinnegan and not just Senju and Uchiha.

I like how Madara was deceived by black Zetsu too
and that we got an explantion about the Juubi/Shinju.
How it was actually Kaguya fused with it.

Before that explanation, it just came out of nowhere and fought with Hagoromo.
I like that a lot less.

The Otsutsuki did the story good imo.
It also explains how Hagoromo and Hamura were able to fight with it,
because they were Kaguya's children.

A mere normal human would stand no chance.

These are among reasons that for me the Otsutsuki made the story better.

If it ended with Madara we would have mist out on a lot.
Too much mystery surrounding Hagoromo and the Rinnegan.
We would still have thought that Senju + Uchiha=Rinengan (wich never made much sense), rather than Ashura+Indra=Hagoromo and thus Rinnegan. Which makes a lot more sense.
We would have missed out on transmigrants and why Naruto and Sasuke are destined to fight,
cause the curse of hatred before than, wasnt a sufficient explanation yet.

Just to name some that we would have missed out on.
I was joking, bud :coffee:
You never know with these forums :p.
 
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DominiqueX

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Before that explanation, it just came out of nowhere and fought with Hagoromo.
I like that a lot less.

The Otsutsuki did the story good imo.
It also explains how Hagoromo and Hamura were able to fight with it,
because they were Kaguya's children.

A mere normal human would stand no chance.

These are among reasons that for me the Otsutsuki made the story better.

If it ended with Madara we would have mist out on a lot.
Too much mystery surrounding Hagoromo and the Rinnegan.
We would still have thought that Senju + Uchiha=Rinengan (wich never made much sense), rather than Ashura+Indra=Hagoromo and thus Rinnegan. Which makes a lot more sense.
We would have missed out on transmigrants and why Naruto and Sasuke are destined to fight,
cause the curse of hatred before than, wasnt a sufficient explanation yet.

Just to name some that we would have missed out on.
That's a matter of taste then.
But there wouldn't be many unexplained things left. Just replace Kaguya by Hagoromo alone who ate the fruit makes everything fine. If you consider, how powerful the Juubi is, it would make sense that the fruit itself granted such powers to turn a normal human into a god-like being. That would not exclude Ashura and Indra, don't know what you are talking about. But, yeah, to each their own.

A lot of people, including me, never liked this stuff about destiny and such.

Your scan regarding the Gedo Mazo, the 9 bijou and the moon does not show a plothole either.
Just because Hagoromo did it all imediately in one go in Naruto and Sasuke's fight, does not have to mean that he did it the same way in his own time.
He wasnt a jinchuriki in Naruto and Sasuke's fight and the bijou had already been created, so the situation was different.

In the past Hamura and Hagoromo sealed the tentails in Hagoromo and some time later (not immediately) Hagoromo created the 9 beasts and the gedo, which became sealed in the moon eventually.
Hamura didnt leave imediately after the fight either.
He left some time later before his brother Hagoromo's death. Who was gonna die, because the gedo was sealed in the moon (out of Hagoromo).
That is simply not true.
It was shown that Hagoromo and Hamura sealed Kaguya the exact same way like Naruto/Sasuke did. It is impossible that Hagoromo could become a Jinchuuriki and then survives the creation of the Bijuu without the Mazo that was already in the moon. Simple.

Black Zetsu can record time and even show recordings to others.
He is created from Kaguya's will (who has the Sharinnegan). Its not odd or surprising that he too has tablet reading and modifying powers.
Only your assumption, not a fact. Fact is that you need a Rinnegan to read the complete stone tablet and black Zetsu never had it. :)
 
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gerizzyYMcrew

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Offtopic, but I want to add something here.
Kishimoto also could've made Madara lose because of his arrogance and him not taking Sasuke/Naruto seriously. This would still not be perfect, but at least better than having this Ootsutsuki nonsense and multiple plot holes.


Simple.
Madara had a brain and battle-experience, Kaguya did not.
Of course he would have shown a much better fight, he didn't need the ash bones or dimension shifting. Imagine Madara with two Rinnegan, it was implied several times that this power is not comparable to the one-eyed version that Naruto/Sasuke fought before. Also imagine Madara using his complete arsenal.
Him using multiple Rinnegan-paths without restriction at the same time, planet-sized Mokuton (to counter Narutos Bijuu-chakra), multiple Mokuton-clones with Rinnegan and shared vision, Juubi-chakra enhanced Susanoo, 4 Limbos (which gave Naruto/Sasuke a hard time alone), multiple Juubidamas firering at Naruto/Sasuke and at the same time blocking everything with his last Gudoudama.
Sasuke would be the first to go down, considering the fact that Madara also quickly realized how Amenotejikara works. And wthout Sasuke, Naruto can't win.
Sakura and Kakashi would've been totally useless in this fight. No blind-spot weakness due to shared vision and a brain. RIP Narutoverse.
I realised something...madara could have had all those feats and still be below kaguya...when she returned she did not have all of the world's chakra like she was supposed to...she was also restricted
 

Meowazziel

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That's a matter of taste then.
But there wouldn't be many unexplained things left. Just replace Kaguya by Hagoromo alone who ate the fruit makes everything fine. If you consider, how powerful the Juubi is, it would make sense that the fruit itself granted such powers to turn a normal human into a god-like being. That would not exclude Ashura and Indra, don't know what you are talking about. But, yeah, to each their own.

A lot of people, including me, never liked this stuff about destiny and such.


That is simply not true.
It was shown that Hagoromo and Hamura sealed Kaguya the exact same way like Naruto/Sasuke did. It is impossible that Hagoromo could become a Jinchuuriki and then survives the creation of the Bijuu without the Mazo that was already in the moon. Simple.


Only your assumption, not a fact. Fact is that you need a Rinnegan to read the complete stone tablet and black Zetsu never had it. :)
Replacing Hagoromo with Kaguya wouldnt really work well.
At first it would ruin the story a bit, because the inspiration of the tree comes from Eve eating the apple and Hagoromo is male. But lets say he is female, even than it wouldnt really work well.
Due to the times, due to the Juubi trying to get its fruit back. It tryed to do so, because Kaguya was part of it.
Who wouldnt be in your version. Hamura wouldnt have the same role either, because he wasnt born strong (no Kaguya).

Also the Mugen Tsukuyomi being done by Madara, Black Zetsu altering the tablet to write it on there, wouldnt make sense, without Kaguya. Due to Black Zetsu being Kaguya's will. But Kaguya wouldnt be in your story.
You cant just replace Kaguya with Hagoromo. There would be no good explanation of the Hyuuga origin either without Kaguya. Just to name some things that you have overlooked in that case.


What you are saying is not true. He didnt do the moon right away.
It was NOT shown that Hagoromo and Hamura sealed Kaguya the exact same way.
The ony thing that was shown, is that the seals on the hands were used.

Naruto and Sasuke fought Kaguya (with Madara with the bijou inside her).
Noone was made a jinchuriki after the fight, so the steps afterwards were done differently.

Hagoromo and Hamura fought the Juubi, which Kaguya was part off.
After the fight, they sealed the Juubi, in Hagoromo.
Making him the jinchuriki.

Than a lot of time later, the bijou were created, with the Gedo still being in Hagoromo.
At some point later he created the moon and sealed the Gedo inside of it.
Around this time, Hamura and his kind went to live on the moon and without the Gedo or bijou inside of Hagoromo, Hagoromo died some time later.

This is how it went and its different from the Naruto and Sasuke vs Kaguya fight.
Where all the steps were done at once, because noone was made a jinchuriki, the bijou were immediately freed into 9 and the Gedo didnt need to be in anyone, so it was instantly sealed into rock/moon.

Regarding black Zetsu. You dont need to have everything spelled out for you in this series.
Black Zetsu can record time and show it to others. So that shows that his eyes are already special.
He is Kaguya's will. Kaguya who has the Sharinnegan.

The manga showed that black Zetsu can alter the tablet. Its a fact by the manga.

At first the fact was Sharingan and Rinnegan.
Than another option was added on top of sharingan and Rinnegan.
Black Zetsu as Kaguyas will.
Why he can do it is my logical thinking.
That he can do it is a fact and not a plothole.
 
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