[VS] SM Naruto vs. Itachi and Kisame

[naruto7861]

Itachi solo's

 

[ARGUS]

Amaterasu gg

Naruto sensess the chakra built up for the flames well before they are released, and counters it by blocking the LoS through smoke bombs, or can also block the flames by a KB

Totsuka gg

Its evaded by naruto

Tsukuyomi gg

Naruto is a sensor and with the use of KB, as well as the fact that he has intel and that the OP made him friends with kurama and the fact that he has Ma&pa summoned means that genjutsu is countered

water shark bomb gg

SM COFRS will one shot kisame, and its also debatable whether GSB could absorb senjutsu

Also Naruto can't break yata. He can screw over kisame with the chakra absorbtion trick, though

If we give yata the same feats as V4 susanoo then SM COFRS will bust it,
not to mention that itachi is not mainaining V4 susanoo for long periods either

OT - this could go either way, if naruto gets rid of kisame early on then he wins
if not then he most likely loses

 

[Unorthodox]

Itachi solos

Naruto blocking amaterasu is a joke people always use the smoke scren when it requires him to give orders to ma & pa then for them to shoo them the kage bushin he needs to make the handsighs and use them all Amaterasu 1 shots before all that happen.

Also naruto not knowing the perks for Tsukuyomi he would think kurama would break him out of it GG

SM COFRS will one shot kisame, and its also debatable whether GSB could absorb senjutsu

its not debateable whether it can absorb it senjutsu can be absrorb you just cant absorb to much of it or you'll turn to a stone as your body cannot handle Senjutsu GSB being ninjutsu it absorbs it comfortably

 

[Kagustuchi]

Pre-Buff Current SM Naruto could beat Healthy Itachi or Kisame 1 on 1 at High Diff. Though as a team, they crush Naruto if he's only allowed SM.​

​

 

[wael reda]

The team wins low/mid diff
Naruto is overrated
Kisame can solo ,if samehada can absorb senjutsu chakra without being turned into stone ,and healthy itachi can most likely solo too

 

[Apêx1]

Naruto sensess the chakra built up for the flames well before they are released, and counters it by blocking the LoS through smoke bombs, or can also block the flames by a KB

Lel, it has to have Nardo's chakra signature to hide him, in the same way the mist had Zabuza's signature. Smoke is seen through via sharingan when Naruto's chakra differentiates from the present smoke.

Its evaded by naruto

Assuming he isn't under genjutsu which the Kyuubi hasn't broke him out of yet, yes.

Naruto is a sensor and with the use of KB, as well as the fact that he has intel and that the OP made him friends with kurama and the fact that he has Ma&pa summoned means that genjutsu is countered

Kurama takes time to break Naruto out of genjutsu, which can be utilised. KB can counter, but it won't. Shima and Fukasaku will make him stand out clearly, even with transformation jutsu, Naruto cannot replicate Shima and Fukasaku's chakra signatures, thus the one which has three different chakra signatures is the real Naruto.

SM COFRS will one shot kisame, and its also debatable whether GSB could absorb senjutsu

Yata counters. No reason for GSB not to absorb senjutsu when it doens't turn to stone.

If we give yata the same feats as V4 susanoo then SM COFRS will bust it,
not to mention that itachi is not mainaining V4 susanoo for long periods either

Yata applies the same characteristics of the attack back to it, thus repelling it. An attack with rotational force like FRS gets spun back or nullified with the same charactersitics applied back at it. v4 tanks COFRS, with Yata there's nothing whatsoever. And he doesn't need to use v4 for prolonged times, he just needs to briefly acitvate and deactivate. That won't have any effect on Itachi.

OT - this could go either way, if naruto gets rid of kisame early on then he wins
if not then he most likely loses

Doubtable he can. Suiton Clones and Crow clones will be too much for Naruto when followed up by two beasts, one being a chakra beats and the other being a chakra potency monster (Uchiha). Amateratsu can one shot the already differentiated Naruto, GSB or 1000 sharks can easily clear the clones in the area. Tsukiyomi ends as well, it was stated someone without high proficiency with his Sharingan bloodline could not overcome it, and that was the only way. A Bijuu cannot have affect on it, simple as that. Crows reforming from behind Naruto have a chance of lethally damaging him or putting him under brief genjutsu, which someone with insane collaboration with his Bijuu like Bee, needed time to break out.

 

[Minato namikaze123]

Itachi tsukuyomi ...
gg for naruto!!!

 

[ARGUS]

Lel, it has to have Nardo's chakra signature to hide him, in the same way the mist had Zabuza's signature. Smoke is seen through via sharingan when Naruto's chakra differentiates from the present smoke.

Naruto doesnt need to rely entirely on the smoke bombs when he can block the flames through his clones,
Naruto can use the smoke bomb on himself to hide his presence, and with his presence hidden he can evade the flames
or he can use the dust cloud through his toads to block the LoS,
he doesnt need to use the smoke bombs at all, however i can agree with what you have said here

Assuming he isn't under genjutsu which the Kyuubi hasn't broke him out of yet, yes.

Nope, with his sensing he is able to sense the oncoming genjutus and would be wary of it, and his kurama enables him to break the genjutsu rather quickly, and with the use of his clones and his SM reflexes, means that ''lol-genjutsu-totsuka-blitz'' is not happening
you are severely underestimating the speed of partner method

Kurama takes time to break Naruto out of genjutsu, which can be utilised. KB can counter, but it won't. Shima and Fukasaku will make him stand out clearly, even with transformation jutsu, Naruto cannot replicate Shima and Fukasaku's chakra signatures, thus the one which has three different chakra signatures is the real Naruto.

No, jins can break the users out of genjutsu rather quickly

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, and if kurama is cooperating with naruto throughout the fight, then genjutsu is broken nigh instantly

again, despite naruto standing out due to ma and pa, he still has the sensing to enable him to percieve the genjutsu before it hits him, meaning that he isnt getting caught, and you are underestimating the speed of partner method, its rather quick

Yata counters. No reason for GSB not to absorb senjutsu when it doens't turn to stone.

based on feats Yata should have the same durability as V4 susanoo, since its equipped with the susanoo itself
COFRS will most likely bust V4 open, not to mention that itachi cant maintain V4 for long periods of time regardless of his state here

and GSB lacks feats, the no-limits fallacy cant be applied here
@Bold - the same could be stated for TSB then, which negate all ninjutsu even edo regen, yet they failed to negate senjutsu,

Yata applies the same characteristics of the attack back to it, thus repelling it. An attack with rotational force like FRS gets spun back or nullified with the same charactersitics applied back at it. v4 tanks COFRS, with Yata there's nothing whatsoever. And he doesn't need to use v4 for prolonged times, he just needs to briefly acitvate and deactivate. That won't have any effect on Itachi.

No, based on feats yata mirror has none at all,
and COFRS certainly has the DC to bust V4 open,
when Hirudora which is comparable to FRS destroyed V3 susanoo, and COFRS especially amped with senjutsu is much stronger than a normal FRS, i dont see how it wont destroy V4

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briefly activating and deactivating susanoo is also not helping when all his susanoo bar V4 get destroyed by FRS to begin with, and using larger variants of susanoo would just drain itachi out even more

Doubtable he can. Suiton Clones and Crow clones will be too much for Naruto when followed up by two beasts, one being a chakra beats and the other being a chakra potency monster (Uchiha). Amateratsu can one shot the already differentiated Naruto, GSB or 1000 sharks can easily clear the clones in the area. Tsukiyomi ends as well, it was stated someone without high proficiency with his Sharingan bloodline could not overcome it, and that was the only way. A Bijuu cannot have affect on it, simple as that. Crows reforming from behind Naruto have a chance of lethally damaging him or putting him under brief genjutsu, which someone with insane collaboration with his Bijuu like Bee, needed time to break out.

i would like to point it out to you that i think Itachi and Kisame win mid diff at most,
i only made the post to state narutos counters to the basic techniques, however i will address the flaws in this part of ur post

--Amaterasu is never one shotting here, naruto can sense the chakra built up and block tthe flames with a clone, or can block the LoS through Ma's dust cloud,

--suiton clones and crow clones are non factor,

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--1000 feeding sharks are also getting countered by

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which are superior to

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or naruto can just end them with FRS, and call it a day

--The part about tsukuyomi is wrong, very wrong, first of all

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which naruto is more than capable of sensing, secondly it still requires eye contact and naruto knows how to fight the sharingan now, and through his SM sensing and reflexes he can evade eye contact as well as the jutsu
annd lastly the part about only an uchiha breaking is wrong, genjutsu can be broken by an external source, its broken by a disruption in the flow of chakra, and kurama as welll as anyone outside can still break the genjutsu quite easily, regardless of it being tsukuyomi

 

[MickNerks]

5 sage Mode clones + ma and Pa = Naruto winning with mid diff

6 SM Naruto's easily overwhelm, and with kurama there to break naruto out of genjutsu and Ma and Pa there as back up this easily should go to naruto.

 

[Apêx1]

Nope, with his sensing he is able to sense the oncoming genjutus and would be wary of it, and his kurama enables him to break the genjutsu rather quickly, and with the use of his clones and his SM reflexes, means that ''lol-genjutsu-totsuka-blitz'' is not happening
you are severely underestimating the speed of partner method

[

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] Sharingan genjutsu still took time to get out of with Hachibi in this scenario. More so, Naruto's linkage with Kurama doesn't compare to Bee and Hachibi's who can probably last forever in BM, in contract to Naruto's -10 mins.

No, jins can break the users out of genjutsu rather quickly

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, and if kurama is cooperating with naruto throughout the fight, then genjutsu is broken nigh instantly

Nope, not nigh instantly, especially not in Naruto's case.

again, despite naruto standing out due to ma and pa, he still has the sensing to enable him to percieve the genjutsu before it hits him, meaning that he isnt getting caught, and you are underestimating the speed of partner method, its rather quick

How does sensing imply he isn't getting caught? Genjutsu happens upon eye contact, it isn't like amateratsu which has a brief moment of chakra build up which can easily be sensed and avoided. Eye contact=caught in genjutsu. Naruto who knew not to look at Itachi still got caught rather easily by it. And that was with the goal of not getting caught, it won't be the same in a 2v1, merely because of sensing. Sensing won't matter, chakra build up isn't large, it is nigh instant the second chakra is moulded, SM doesn't help in avoiding it.

based on feats Yata should have the same durability as V4 susanoo, since its equipped with the susanoo itself
COFRS will most likely bust V4 open, not to mention that itachi cant maintain V4 for long periods of time regardless of his state here

How so? Odama Rasengan was merely rubbing off the outer layering off the v1 Susano, couldn't even crack it. v2 Susano is leagues above v1, and so on. v2 Susano is implied to have tanked Kirin without Yata, and it destroyed a mountain sized building. V3 is leagues above v2, and v4 is leagues above v3. Adding Yata makes it many tiers greater as well due to its reflective properties which reduce spin and momentum which in turn reduces energy output. FRS isn't Kirin level, COFRS is above Kirin level. v3 would get destroyed, v4 may be very slightly damaged, v4 with Yata isn't being touched after the reduced energy output of the COFRS.

and GSB lacks feats, the no-limits fallacy cant be applied here
@Bold - the same could be stated for TSB then, which negate all ninjutsu even edo regen, yet they failed to negate senjutsu,

That's not no limits fallacy. Preta absorbed Senjutsu based attacks. The only thing that can't be absorbed is Nature energy itself, which turns you into a stone. GSB has no reason not to absorb Senjutsu based attacks, unless you can make an argument for such. TSB isn't a good example, negating something isn't the equivalent of absorbing something, so I don't see what you are on about here.

No, based on feats yata mirror has none at all,
and COFRS certainly has the DC to bust V4 open,
when Hirudora which is comparable to FRS destroyed V3 susanoo, and COFRS especially amped with senjutsu is much stronger than a normal FRS, i dont see how it wont destroy V4

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Yata repelled massive snakes that are, by DB standard (which is Kishi's drawing intention), larger than Manda. It repelled a katana back.

Well to be fair, it is claimed that the Yata mirror can change its properties to any incoming attack, and it has supported this. It changes its properties in accordance to the attack, so if said attack hits, said attack is repelled with the same properties of said attack. Sasuke's Kusanagi sword was reflected completely and ended up feeling the force of his own attack [

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]. Altered properties. Snake had attacked in different angles, snakes were reflected accordingly [

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]. Altered properties. Explosions are thrown, Yata engulfs Susano completely in order to repel the attack [

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]. Altered properties. Yata mirror from a different perspective [

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]. once again, altered properties. Yata has more than enough evidence that it can in fact repel the attack that is coming in. This is an implied feat, not hype or no limits fallacy to their fullest.

And Hirudora never destroyed v3, it simply pushed it over. Unless you can prove to me the v3 was destroyed and not deactivated, I have no reason to argue this. That conclusively nullifies that attempted comparison of powers to glorify COFRS.

briefly activating and deactivating susanoo is also not helping when all his susanoo bar V4 get destroyed by FRS to begin with, and using larger variants of susanoo would just drain itachi out even more

COFRS isn't getting past Yata or V4. Larger variants being briefly activated for 5 seconds won't affect Itachi.

i would like to point it out to you that i think Itachi and Kisame win mid diff at most,
i only made the post to state narutos counters to the basic techniques, however i will address the flaws in this part of ur post

ok

--Amaterasu is never one shotting here, naruto can sense the chakra built up and block tthe flames with a clone, or can block the LoS through Ma's dust cloud,

Clone isn't being made in time. I don't see why you believe hand seals can be made in time, nor do I see how a clone is doing anything when the original is distinguished by the differing chakra signatures. Ma's dust cloud doesn't contain Naruto's chakra signature, nor does it contain Pa's. Zabuza's mist only hid Zabuza because it had his chakra signature. Thus, Naruto will be seen since the chakra of the cloud is different to the Chakra Naruto posses.

--suiton clones and crow clones are non factor,

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They aren't bunching up around each other, so no. GSB makes it vanish. Samehada reduces its size or completely nullifies it.

--1000 feeding sharks are also getting countered by

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which are superior to

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or naruto can just end them with FRS, and call it a day

Don't see how that makes any sense. Unless Naruto can cover that massive AOE with Rasengan Barrages, the Sharks that are over the clones using Rasengan will kill the clones beneath them and continue. Only because Asakujaku is a fitting technique for this, doesn't mean it is a comparable stand point for a close range attack like Rasengan that can't cover the insane AOE. FRS isn't covering the distance of all 1000 sharks, not a chance in hell.

--The part about tsukuyomi is wrong, very wrong, first of all

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which naruto is more than capable of sensing, secondly it still requires eye contact and naruto knows how to fight the sharingan now, and through his SM sensing and reflexes he can evade eye contact as well as the jutsu
annd lastly the part about only an uchiha breaking is wrong, genjutsu can be broken by an external source, its broken by a disruption in the flow of chakra, and kurama as welll as anyone outside can still break the genjutsu quite easily, regardless of it being tsukuyomi

He knew how to fight the sharingan last time, yet got caught in the sharingan again. The real Naruto is differentiated from his clones. Naruto can sense Tsukiyomi's build up, but not necessarily counter it correctly. Don't see how reflexes are helping, Lol, Tsukiyomi cannot be evaded like that. DB disagrees, Itachi disagrees. Say what you will, it was explicitly stated in the DB it can only be broken by an Uchiha bloodline, and also stated by Itachi when used against Kakashi and Sasuke. Your claims aren't more accurate than Kishi who conveyed this message through the Mandga and the Databook. Say what you will, I have no reason to take words of normal genjutsu being countered by chakra disruption and an MS tsukiyomi being countered by chakra disruption, when stated not to be. And even if I were to hypothetically say it is counterable by Bijuu's. It takes at least one second to snap out of this, which is already 24 hours of torture. So he is lethally damaged either way.

 

[ARGUS]

[

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] Sharingan genjutsu still took time to get out of with Hachibi in this scenario. More so, Naruto's linkage with Kurama doesn't compare to Bee and Hachibi's who can probably last forever in BM, in contract to Naruto's -10 mins.

I had a feeling you wouldd use that case, howevver against itachi,the hachibi broke him out rather quickly,
and even in the case against sasuke,

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narutos linkage with kurama only effects the time limit in BM, which is restricted in this matchup, so i dont see why youre bringing that up, as the only requirement to break the genjutsu through partner method is an external source providing a disruption in chakra, which kurama can still do throoughout this match up

How does sensing imply he isn't getting caught? Genjutsu happens upon eye contact, it isn't like amateratsu which has a brief moment of chakra build up which can easily be sensed and avoided. Eye contact=caught in genjutsu. Naruto who knew not to look at Itachi still got caught rather easily by it. And that was with the goal of not getting caught, it won't be the same in a 2v1, merely because of sensing. Sensing won't matter, chakra build up isn't large, it is nigh instant the second chakra is moulded, SM doesn't help in avoiding it.

Genjutsu such as tsukuyomi still requires chakra to be focused, just like amaterasu, the only difference is the time frame of the built up, sensing is good since it will make naruto be careful of the oncoming genjutsu and therefoore he would know to evade eye contact
and Naruto got caught in finger genjutsu, which isnt eye contact so your point here is moot, not to mention that naruto had no intel on finger genjutsu at all, here however he has the intel on itachis genjutsu capabilitties
and the fact that naruto throughout the war arc hasnt been caught once in a genjutsu despite fighting uchihas, should imply that naruto knows how to fight the sharingan

@Bold - the chakra built up doesnt have to be large for naruto to sense, which would allow him to therefore avoid eye contact which is all that matters

How so? Odama Rasengan was merely rubbing off the outer layering off the v1 Susano, couldn't even crack it.

Wrong,

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, so ur claim of COR not damaging ribcage is wrong,

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meaning that ribcage clearly wasnt enough,
it wouldve destroyed ribcage with ease,

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, on top of the fact

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COR >> A's lateral chop and COR >>> Kabutos suiton, that should be obvious to you
therefore COR wrecks ribcage

v2 Susano is leagues above v1, and so on. v2 Susano is implied to have tanked Kirin without Yata, and it destroyed a mountain sized building. V3 is leagues above v2, and v4 is leagues above v3. Adding Yata makes it many tiers greater as well due to its reflective properties which reduce spin and momentum which in turn reduces energy output. FRS isn't Kirin level, COFRS is above Kirin level. v3 would get destroyed, v4 may be very slightly damaged, v4 with Yata isn't being touched after the reduced energy output of the COFRS.

This entire post is wrong,
first of all, when on earth has V2 susanoo been implied to have tanked kirin????
kirin would crush V2 with utmost ease, especially

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and

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, therefore concluding that Kirin would wreck V2 susanoo with utmost ease

kirin was most likely tanked by V4 susanoo, anything lower would get itachi killed based on feats and portrayal
and

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, its either V3 susanoo and V4, certainly not V2,
and itachi forming his susanoo again, after getting up doesnt imply that V2 tanks Kirin, thats just ridiculous

COFRS is a mountain buster and is wrecking all of itachis susanooo variants, especially seeing how its much stronger than Kirin itself, which had the firepower to damage all of itachis susanoo variants,
and im also going to need proof on ur statement of Kirin>>>FRS

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, and it also damages the opponent on a cellular level
if there is a difference it is very small

Yata repelled massive snakes that are, by DB standard (which is Kishi's drawing intention), larger than Manda. It repelled a katana back.

Lmao please tell me ur joking, manda is much larger than a standard V2 susanoo

And Hirudora never destroyed v3, it simply pushed it over. Unless you can prove to me the v3 was destroyed and not deactivated, I have no reason to argue this. That conclusively nullifies that attempted comparison of powers to glorify COFRS.

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here is the thread

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if susano was deactivated than madara wouldve died
and the fact that hirudora is comprable to a normal FRS and busted V3, is obvious that COFRS will be glorified seeing how its much larger and stronger than a normal FRS, thus making it capable of busting V4, especially when hirudora and FRS have the abilitiy to at the very least damage V4

COFRS isn't getting past Yata or V4. Larger variants being briefly activated for 5 seconds won't affect Itachi.

Already debunked this claim

Clone isn't being made in time. I don't see why you believe hand seals can be made in time, nor do I see how a clone is doing anything when the original is distinguished by the differing chakra signatures. Ma's dust cloud doesn't contain Naruto's chakra signature, nor does it contain Pa's. Zabuza's mist only hid Zabuza because it had his chakra signature. Thus, Naruto will be seen since the chakra of the cloud is different to the Chakra Naruto posses.

Clone blocks the oncoming flame, the handseal can be very easily made in time, seeing how nagato who has comparable sensing to naruto managed to sense the oncoming well well before the flames were executed, and even managed to warn the rest

again i dont see why ur bringing that chakkra signature argument,

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, hell is even prevented pein from sseeing someone as large as gamabunta
itachi wont be capable of locating naruto and his LoS will be blocked by the dust cloud, theerefore amatearsu is just taking more chakra off him

Don't see how that makes any sense. Unless Naruto can cover that massive AOE with Rasengan Barrages, the Sharks that are over the clones using Rasengan will kill the clones beneath them and continue. Only because Asakujaku is a fitting technique for this, doesn't mean it is a comparable stand point for a close range attack like Rasengan that can't cover the insane AOE. FRS isn't covering the distance of all 1000 sharks, not a chance in hell.

Lol, the

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,, 1000 feeding sharks are not more than the level of jukai kotan which is capable of creating an entire forest, and sharks are not killing the clones when they are firing off rasengans and have the reflexes to attack them with ease, thats jjust funny
and FRS doesnt need to cover the distance when its magnitude is enough to eradicate all the sharks at once

He knew how to fight the sharingan last time, yet got caught in the sharingan again. The real Naruto is differentiated from his clones. Naruto can sense Tsukiyomi's build up, but not necessarily counter it correctly. Don't see how reflexes are helping, Lol, Tsukiyomi cannot be evaded like that. DB disagrees, Itachi disagrees. Say what you will, it was explicitly stated in the DB it can only be broken by an Uchiha bloodline, and also stated by Itachi when used against Kakashi and Sasuke. Your claims aren't more accurate than Kishi who conveyed this message through the Mandga and the Databook. Say what you will, I have no reason to take words of normal genjutsu being countered by chakra disruption and an MS tsukiyomi being countered by chakra disruption, when stated not to be. And even if I were to hypothetically say it is counterable by Bijuu's. It takes at least one second to snap out of this, which is already 24 hours of torture. So he is lethally damaged either way.

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dont see how that matters, since war arc naruto hasnt been caught once despite fighting uchihas throughout the arc

why is naruto not able to evade eye contact?? his sensing and reflexes enable him to sense the built up for tsukuyomi means that he can evade eye contact quite well, since he would be aware of the oncoming genjutsu, furthermore an outer source can break genjutsu quite easily, whether it be tsukuyomi or a 3T genjutsu,
hell the kages even managed to take mifune out of KA,

 

[Unorthodox]

Kifflom vs Apex okay okay ''my disciple showing off what i taught him

 

[Trúth]

Team two's members could each solo low difficulty. Facepalm thread.

 

[Minator93]

Naruto with 3 SM clones and a boss summon takes this U_U

 

[Eternal Sage]

Anyone else finding the debate entertaining when both people have pretty much the same opinion with slightly different thoughts?

 

[ARGUS]

Anyone else finding the debate entertaining when both people have pretty much the same opinion with slightly different thoughts?

Lmao it's weird
It's only happened to me a few times

Kifflom vs Apex okay okay ''my disciple showing off what i taught him

Indeed sir, they should know that i learn from the best

 

[Apêx1]

I had a feeling you wouldd use that case, howevver against itachi,the hachibi broke him out rather quickly,
and even in the case against sasuke,

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narutos linkage with kurama only effects the time limit in BM, which is restricted in this matchup, so i dont see why youre bringing that up, as the only requirement to break the genjutsu through partner method is an external source providing a disruption in chakra, which kurama can still do throoughout this match up

Never claimed he doesn't break out, I merely said it takes time, which he doesn't have. Every genjutsu used could lead to a GSB or Amateratsu attempt in the brief second notice.
It means Naruto and Kurama's partnership isn't amazing. Kurama noticing the genjutsu in time is dependant on his partnership with Naruto, as the Bijuu inside you has to act accordingly at the right time. Never said he couldn't, merely said it will take an extra second or so.

Genjutsu such as tsukuyomi still requires chakra to be focused, just like amaterasu, the only difference is the time frame of the built up, sensing is good since it will make naruto be careful of the oncoming genjutsu and therefoore he would know to evade eye contact
and Naruto got caught in finger genjutsu, which isnt eye contact so your point here is moot, not to mention that naruto had no intel on finger genjutsu at all, here however he has the intel on itachis genjutsu capabilitties
and the fact that naruto throughout the war arc hasnt been caught once in a genjutsu despite fighting uchihas, should imply that naruto knows how to fight the sharingan

@Bold - the chakra built up doesnt have to be large for naruto to sense, which would allow him to therefore avoid eye contact which is all that matters

Yea, Tsukiyomi does require chakra build up. However, not more than normal sharingan genjutsu, as shown here [1

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][

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]. He was able to tsukiyomi after the snake was half way there, and as fast as a normal sharingan genjutsu. This alone proves it isn't like Amateratsu, which takes drastic amounts of time to initiate. And wot? Naruto was caught in genjutsu when he knew about both finger genjutsu and sharingan genjutsu, while also having clones out [

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]. Yet he still got caught rather easily in the genjutsu [

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]. Don't forget Itachi can control many people at once given they are close to him and nearby each other [

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]. That means Itachi can put Ma, Pa and Naruto under genjutsu simultaneously, or simply one of the frogs on Naruto's shoulders, and have him kill Naruto without Naruto's knowing or anticipation. Yup, GG genjutsu. So no, Naruto doesn't know how to fight the sharingan correctly, nor will Ma and Pa further Naruto's victory, but rather be his end.

Already discussed.

Wrong,

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, so ur claim of COR not damaging ribcage is wrong,

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meaning that ribcage clearly wasnt enough,
it wouldve destroyed ribcage with ease,

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, on top of the fact

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COR >> A's lateral chop and COR >>> Kabutos suiton, that should be obvious to you
therefore COR wrecks ribcage

It was rubbing off a layer, I already said that, and no, it was in complete contact with it. Doesn't mean he needed it, only because Madara used a fully stabilised PS against the Hokage, doesn't mean he needed it. V2 would push Naruto off in the same way v3 did, and nothing can dispute that since they form at a similar momentum, thus pushing Naruto off either way. And he didn't need Naruto sitting there all day, instead he pushed him off and began a counter attack with his v3 swords swiping. Or is he supposed to sit there all day with his v1 to prove it resists COR. Uhhh? Lateral chops didn't leave Sasuke vulnerable, all they managed was

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, extremely minor cracks if you ask me. Lel, there was clearly more to that occasion than the suiton, especially when Itachi's Suiton overcame his [

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]. More like an inconsistency if anything, when Ay's attacks clearly generate more force than it and Odama Rasengan doesn't instantly crack it with the torque generated, otherwise it would be undermining both COR and Susano. Nope, deductive fallacy.

This entire post is wrong,
first of all, when on earth has V2 susanoo been implied to have tanked kirin????
kirin would crush V2 with utmost ease, especially

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and

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, therefore concluding that Kirin would wreck V2 susanoo with utmost ease

No, it is impossible to form anything greater than v2 Susano in 1/1000th of a second. He said if he didn't have "this" he would've died, this being the v2 [

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]. He shows to instantly form the v2 Susano, whereas v3 and v4 take time to form [

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], clearly not possible in under 1/1000th of a second. So no, all evidence points to v2 tanking Kirin, Kirin being a mountain busting technique.

kirin was most likely tanked by V4 susanoo, anything lower would get itachi killed based on feats and portrayal
and

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, its either V3 susanoo and V4, certainly not V2,
and itachi forming his susanoo again, after getting up doesnt imply that V2 tanks Kirin, thats just ridiculous

Yea, v2 ended up being destroyed by a nigh-mountain busting technique, not bad though since it allowed its user to survive. I have more evidence pointing towards v2 than anything higher. It does suggest it, much more than basing it on blind faith and subjective 'logic'.

COFRS is a mountain buster and is wrecking all of itachis susanooo variants, especially seeing how its much stronger than Kirin itself, which had the firepower to damage all of itachis susanoo variants,
and im also going to need proof on ur statement of Kirin>>>FRS

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, and it also damages the opponent on a cellular level
if there is a difference it is very small

That's doubtable. Anyways, FRS did that explosion to the Raikage [

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], and you tell me the guy in the centre of it compares to a technique of

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magnitude? Do note on the next page you can see the size of the area affected compared to mountains [

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]. Uchiha hideout is this big [

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], and those pillars you see are massive compared to Sasuke, where he is above the Uchiha crest sign, he's dwarfed by hundreds of times vertically, thousands of times area wise [

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]. Kirin is above COFRS, or its equivalent. Either way, it's tanked given the evidence I have just provided.

Lmao please tell me ur joking, manda is much larger than a standard V2 susanoo

Eight Branches¹ Technique (八岐の術, Yamata no Jutsu)
Ninjutsu, S-rank, Offensive, Defensive, Supplementary
User: Orochimaru

An eight-headed colossal serpent² spanning eight mountains
It's wicked excellence is the reincarnation of long-standing resentment!!

Captured inside Uchiha Sasuke, Orochimaru took his chance when Sasuke had used up his "suppressing chakra" to use the power of his final moments and unleash this secret technique. Using the "power of reincarnation" possessed by the "White Snake" as an intermediary, Orochimaru appeared out of Sasuke's "Cursed Seal," transformed into a white snake white snake with eight heads and eight tails. Trampling down the "Uchiha" hideout by merely crawling on the scales of his abdomen, this could only be Orochimaru's greatest, strongest technique; the incarnation of his far-reaching tenacity...!!

[picture of a close-up of one of the Yamata's heads]
→Boasting a giant body, even larger than that of Manda, who is feared as the "strongest colossal serpent," it has a sinister appearance as it bares it ferocious fangs. Having transcended the "Orochi³," it became like a "Dragon God"...!!

Kishi intended for it to be larger than Manda, who is massive as you already said. Yes, that's right, I said it..

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here is the thread

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if susano was deactivated than madara wouldve died
and the fact that hirudora is comprable to a normal FRS and busted V3, is obvious that COFRS will be glorified seeing how its much larger and stronger than a normal FRS, thus making it capable of busting V4, especially when hirudora and FRS have the abilitiy to at the very least damage V4

Nope. You base it on the fact he has marks all over him and the fact the Mokuton weakened. Wrong and wrong. Madara had identical marks on his face before the hirudora was used [

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] and after Hirudora was used [

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]. They are the same, same places etc. Only difference is one has more sight on Madara's face than the other. Mokuton weakened because Madara was pushed away from the Mokuton, thus the control he had over it weakened. Didn't bust v3. COFRS is greater, but still weaker than Kirin, as I demonstrated in its size. Don't forget its real lightning, which Zetsu claimed for to be stronger than chakra based attacks. No they don't, lel.

Already debunked this claim

Sure you did, Lol.

Clone blocks the oncoming flame, the handseal can be very easily made in time, seeing how nagato who has comparable sensing to naruto managed to sense the oncoming well well before the flames were executed, and even managed to warn the rest

Itachi controls the flames with his eyes movement. The clone won't be absolutely masking Naruto given he is infront of him, meaning from where Itachi stands, there's most definitely an opening to the real Naruto.

again i dont see why ur bringing that chakkra signature argument,

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, hell is even prevented pein from sseeing someone as large as gamabunta
itachi wont be capable of locating naruto and his LoS will be blocked by the dust cloud, theerefore amatearsu is just taking more chakra off him

Well the Deva's Rinnegan were clearly lacking heavily, given that Sasuke's Rinnegan has the ability to see chakra opening, and Sharingan has the ability to see chakra as colour [

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], even through the ground to spot Deidara's mines. Zabuza's mist had chakra of the same color that his chakra was in his body, so the sharingan couldn't differentiate it in the same way the Rinnegan cannot. However, in a normal circumstance with Sasuke's sharingan, if Ma used smoke, it would be the color of her chakra signature. However, Sasuke can still see Naruto and Pa's chakra signatures within it, because they have different ones. Don't know if you get that or not, but that is the case with the sharingan. If it can see through something as thick as the floor, than it can see through mere dust and analyse chakra, where the only thing inhibiting it would be two identical chakra signatures. So no, Naruto may think Itachi doesn't know where he is, till he gets one shotted by Amateratsu.

Lol, the

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,, 1000 feeding sharks are not more than the level of jukai kotan which is capable of creating an entire forest, and sharks are not killing the clones when they are firing off rasengans and have the reflexes to attack them with ease, thats jjust funny
and FRS doesnt need to cover the distance when its magnitude is enough to eradicate all the sharks at once

You cannot be serious... DO you not see the Jukai Kotan's branches are the size of Naruto clones available horizontally wise, whereas the 1000 sharks dwarfs Kisame massively [

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]. One shark is bigger than Kisame, meaning this jutsu is 1000+++ Kisame's, much more than 20 Naruto's. It sounds like you're grasping on straws at this point, if you actually think what you said is true. Jukai Kotan that was used wasn't forest level, simple as that. The sharks are much larger in numbers and have massive momentum behind them. Naruto's clones will easily die out. No it's not, look at Raikage next to FRS, and then look at Kisame next to FRS. Funny.

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dont see how that matters, since war arc naruto hasnt been caught once despite fighting uchihas throughout the arc

They never attempted it. He was caught by Itachi while clones were out and he was alert. During a fight, you're much less alert, in case you didn't know.

why is naruto not able to evade eye contact?? his sensing and reflexes enable him to sense the built up for tsukuyomi means that he can evade eye contact quite well, since he would be aware of the oncoming genjutsu, furthermore an outer source can break genjutsu quite easily, whether it be tsukuyomi or a 3T genjutsu,
hell the kages even managed to take mifune out of KA,

I showed Tsukiyomi speed, he isn't evading it upon eye contact. Genjutsu can be used on Ma and Pa to attack Naruto. Amateratsu goes through the dust cloud which Itachi can see through. COFRS is tanked. Naruto's intelligence doens't even begin to compare to Itachi's. Don't forget Kisame having the ability to clear all of Naruto's clones with a single jutsu, and overcoming any of his jutsu with GSB. Don't compare the likes of Danzo to the likes of Itachi, their genjutsu proficiency is on different levels despite the jutsu in use.

 

[ARGUS]

Never claimed he doesn't break out, I merely said it takes time, which he doesn't have. Every genjutsu used could lead to a GSB or Amateratsu attempt in the brief second notice.
It means Naruto and Kurama's partnership isn't amazing. Kurama noticing the genjutsu in time is dependant on his partnership with Naruto, as the Bijuu inside you has to act accordingly at the right time. Never said he couldn't, merely said it will take an extra second or so.

Itachi is never using tsukuyomi and amaterasu at the same time, thats fanfic,
if itachi uses tsukyomi then he is focusing his chakra into the genjutsu,
not to mention that after using either of the 2, itachis levels would be drained severely
and Lol if you think that itll take longer for naruto to break genjutsu than for kisamme to form GSB, thats laughable,
seeing how partenr method broke the genjutsu whilst the kunai weere mid air, and within a metre near killer bee, yet still allowed the latter to break the genjutsu and deflect the kunai before they reached him
and the OP stated that this is war arc naruto, his partnership with kurama is just like the hachibi, furthermore the partner link only matters in using the BM, thats where the time frame is,
if kurama is cooperating with naruto, than it means that he will be helping him, just how the hachibi helps base bee, meaning that the genjutsu can still be broken rather quickly

Yea, Tsukiyomi does require chakra build up. However, not more than normal sharingan genjutsu, as shown here [1

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][

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]. He was able to tsukiyomi after the snake was half way there, and as fast as a normal sharingan genjutsu. This alone proves it isn't like Amateratsu, which takes drastic amounts of time to initiate. And wot? Naruto was caught in genjutsu when he knew about both finger genjutsu and sharingan genjutsu, while also having clones out [

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]. Yet he still got caught rather easily in the genjutsu [

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]. Don't forget Itachi can control many people at once given they are close to him and nearby each other [

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]. That means Itachi can put Ma, Pa and Naruto under genjutsu simultaneously, or simply one of the frogs on Naruto's shoulders, and have him kill Naruto without Naruto's knowing or anticipation. Yup, GG genjutsu. So no, Naruto doesn't know how to fight the sharingan correctly, nor will Ma and Pa further Naruto's victory, but rather be his end.

Already discussed.

Lol, first of all, @Bold - the small chakra built up iis alll thats required for naruto to prepare himself from the oncoming genjutsu meaning that he counters it by avoiding eye contact, and he can do this quite easily thanks to his SM sensing and reflexes
the chakra built up doesnt have to be anywhere near amaterasus, for naruto to counter it, he can sense and can evade eye contact for a brief time,

and again, why are you bringing up early part 2 naruto here,
War arc SM Naruto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Early Base part 2 naruto
alll ur claims are utmost moot here, seeing how my premise involves naruto being able to ''sense'' which base naruto clearly doesnt have,
and naruto had intel on finger genjutsu ''after'' their encounter, you are using 2 different cases and stating that because naruto knew of finger genjutsu in chapter 366, then naruto also knew in chapter 258, which is just wrong, since all the intel naruto had on finger genjutsu was after their encounter,

It was rubbing off a layer, I already said that, and no, it was in complete contact with it. Doesn't mean he needed it, only because Madara used a fully stabilised PS against the Hokage, doesn't mean he needed it. V2 would push Naruto off in the same way v3 did, and nothing can dispute that since they form at a similar momentum, thus pushing Naruto off either way. And he didn't need Naruto sitting there all day, instead he pushed him off and began a counter attack with his v3 swords swiping. Or is he supposed to sit there all day with his v1 to prove it resists COR. Uhhh?

You have clearly ignored ALL of the scanss that i have provided, when they make clear sense in each of the case

first of all,

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,
i have already showed that kabutos suiton alone was enough to bust ribcage, what makes you think that COR wont be enough, Lol
and NO,

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,
secondly you have no proof of stating that V1 would be enough to tank COR, as you have stated before V3 is much more durable than V1, so we cant apply the same feats to iit,
and please, when you can show me how V1 tanked COR 'which it clearly didnt'' and when you can prove on ribcage tanking an attack on a greater magnitude than COR than we'll talk
you have ignored every scan that i have provided with no logical explanation, apart from ''madara wont be sitting there''
when he clearly resorted to V3 since ribcage wasnt enough

in conclusion
Ribcage is not durable enough to tank COR, and it was V3 that tanked it

Lateral chops didn't leave Sasuke vulnerable, all they managed was

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, extremely minor cracks if you ask me.

Lol no,

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, how on earth is that not a vulnerable state???? and how on earth is that a minor crack, if A's attack breached ribcage??
the scan you provided involves at a much later time, whre sasuke most likely reformed his ribcage,
and its also obvious that A's lateral chop was enough to bypass ribcage since we dont see any susanoo layer around sasuke at all

Lel, there was clearly more to that occasion than the suiton, especially when Itachi's Suiton overcame his [

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]. More like an inconsistency if anything, when Ay's attacks clearly generate more force than it and Odama Rasengan doesn't instantly crack it with the torque generated, otherwise it would be undermining both COR and Susano. Nope, deductive fallacy.

again, you are denying the scans, and avoiding them by providing something completely irrelevant,

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, iits clear that it was strong enough to overpower it,not to mention that it was also strong enough to counter the katon and still destroyed ribcage

your scan is completely irrelevant since kabuto used suiton daibakubu to bypass ribcage, yet against itachi, he attemped to use suiryuudan, which was intercepted due to itachi being able to read his moves thanks to izanami, and due to him having the same jutsu whilst kabuto did nothing but just stand there

your entiire claim is debunked here, since you even had the jutsus wrong
COR didnt get to crack it since it didnt even explode, ffs, therefore neither susnaoo nor COR is undermined
so No, what i have claimed is not 'deductive fallacy''

No, it is impossible to form anything greater than v2 Susano in 1/1000th of a second. He said if he didn't have "this" he would've died, this being the v2 [

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]. He shows to instantly form the v2 Susano, whereas v3 and v4 take time to form [

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], clearly not possible in under 1/1000th of a second. So no, all evidence points to v2 tanking Kirin, Kirin being a mountain busting technique.

Youre going to need proof that V3 cant be formed within seconds, susanoo formation stems from the brain, and the more chakra you pull the greater the susanoo varriant is formed, its all a matter of chakra thats used,

your claim of V2 tanking Kirin is completely wrong when

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which is no where near Kirin,
then how the hell does it imply that V2 tanked kirin,????
the difference between danzos fuuton and kirin is enormous,
its just unheard of, to claim that the weaker susanoo tanked a much stronger atttack, yet a stronger susanoo was still blew open by danzos weak attackk
not to mention that

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he

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, therefore by logic and powerscaling its fair to say that the susanoo that most likely enabled itachi to survive is either V3 or V4

Yea, v2 ended up being destroyed by a nigh-mountain busting technique, not bad though since it allowed its user to survive. I have more evidence pointing towards v2 than anything higher. It does suggest it, much more than basing it on blind faith and subjective 'logic'.

Already explained and debunked above

That's doubtable. Anyways, FRS did that explosion to the Raikage [

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], and you tell me the guy in the centre of it compares to a technique of

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magnitude? Do note on the next page you can see the size of the area affected compared to mountains [

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]. Uchiha hideout is this big [

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], and those pillars you see are massive compared to Sasuke, where he is above the Uchiha crest sign, he's dwarfed by hundreds of times vertically, thousands of times area wise [

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]. Kirin is above COFRS, or its equivalent. Either way, it's tanked given the evidence I have just provided.

Yes the explosions are almost equivalent,and they do compare its common sense
the uchiha hideout is not that big to begin with, and even if Kirin might be slightly stronger than FRS, however Kirin is not above COFRS thats just nonsense

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when its explosion was seen several meters away, and is on the same level as an average TBB

the uchiha hideout is still no where near the size of a mountain, its a mere building, therefore COFRS > Kirin >= FRS

Nope. You base it on the fact he has marks all over him and the fact the Mokuton weakened. Wrong and wrong. Madara had identical marks on his face before the hirudora was used [

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] and after Hirudora was used [

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]. They are the same, same places etc. Only difference is one has more sight on Madara's face than the other. Mokuton weakened because Madara was pushed away from the Mokuton, thus the control he had over it weakened. Didn't bust v3. COFRS is greater, but still weaker than Kirin, as I demonstrated in its size. Don't forget its real lightning, which Zetsu claimed for to be stronger than chakra based attacks. No they don't, lel.

Comment on the thread that i have provided and we'll discuss it there because ur denial is really high here,
you're basing ur statements on whatever you want to think and are completely ignoring logic

Sure you did, Lol.

I most certainly did, and have done it again

Itachi controls the flames with his eyes movement. The clone won't be absolutely masking Naruto given he is infront of him, meaning from where Itachi stands, there's most definitely an opening to the real Naruto.

itachi ignites the flames through his LoS
the clones would be blocking the flames thats for sure, whether real naruto is seen or not, then the dust cloud can most ceratinly be used which again can block the LoS completely,
and inb4 the chakra signature BS, when Pein also failed to see naruot despite his rinnegan being able to see charkra

Well the Deva's Rinnegan were clearly lacking heavily, given that Sasuke's Rinnegan has the ability to see chakra opening, and Sharingan has the ability to see chakra as colour [

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], even through the ground to spot Deidara's mines. Zabuza's mist had chakra of the same color that his chakra was in his body, so the sharingan couldn't differentiate it in the same way the Rinnegan cannot. However, in a normal circumstance with Sasuke's sharingan, if Ma used smoke, it would be the color of her chakra signature. However, Sasuke can still see Naruto and Pa's chakra signatures within it, because they have different ones. Don't know if you get that or not, but that is the case with the sharingan. If it can see through something as thick as the floor, than it can see through mere dust and analyse chakra, where the only thing inhibiting it would be two identical chakra signatures. So no, Naruto may think Itachi doesn't know where he is, till he gets one shotted by Amateratsu.

Lol Devas rinnegan lacking is just BS,
its Nagatos eyes, deva is just a mere corpse
the paths failed to see naruto and eeven gamabunta behind the dust cloud meaning their LoS was blocked
therefore itachis LoS is also gettting blocked
whether the sharingan can see chakra as colours is still irrelevant when they cant locate naruto at alll

You cannot be serious... DO you not see the Jukai Kotan's branches are the size of Naruto clones available horizontally wise, whereas the 1000 sharks dwarfs Kisame massively [

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]. One shark is bigger than Kisame, meaning this jutsu is 1000+++ Kisame's, much more than 20 Naruto's. It sounds like you're grasping on straws at this point, if you actually think what you said is true. Jukai Kotan that was used wasn't forest level, simple as that. The sharks are much larger in numbers and have massive momentum behind them. Naruto's clones will easily die out. No it's not, look at Raikage next to FRS, and then look at Kisame next to FRS. Funny.

Lol Jukai Kotan was huge, it formed an entire forest
they are at the very least comparable, seeing how both of them covered the entire battlefield

I showed Tsukiyomi speed, he isn't evading it upon eye contact. Genjutsu can be used on Ma and Pa to attack Naruto. Amateratsu goes through the dust cloud which Itachi can see through. COFRS is tanked. Naruto's intelligence doens't even begin to compare to Itachi's. Don't forget Kisame having the ability to clear all of Naruto's clones with a single jutsu, and overcoming any of his jutsu with GSB. Don't compare the likes of Danzo to the likes of Itachi, their genjutsu proficiency is on different levels despite the jutsu in use.

Lol you keep on saying the same BS over and over again,
tsukuyomi is sensed and eye contact is evaded, thats all that naruto needs,
he can stil break the genjutsu within seconds through partner method,

and Lol, Danzo still used KA, which is superior to tsukuyomi, yet they broke it through an outer source which you seem to be ignoring

 

[Apêx1]

Itachi is never using tsukuyomi and amaterasu at the same time, thats fanfic,
if itachi uses tsukyomi then he is focusing his chakra into the genjutsu,
not to mention that after using either of the 2, itachis levels would be drained severely
and Lol if you think that itll take longer for naruto to break genjutsu than for kisamme to form GSB, thats laughable,
seeing how partenr method broke the genjutsu whilst the kunai weere mid air, and within a metre near killer bee, yet still allowed the latter to break the genjutsu and deflect the kunai before they reached him
and the OP stated that this is war arc naruto, his partnership with kurama is just like the hachibi, furthermore the partner link only matters in using the BM, thats where the time frame is,
if kurama is cooperating with naruto, than it means that he will be helping him, just how the hachibi helps base bee, meaning that the genjutsu can still be broken rather quickly

This is a little long for my taste, I'll shorten it by addressing the key points and disregarding things that are too insignificant for relevancy. You had great points at first, but as we continued into the debate one can see we both have points based on manga evidence, and the only thing keeping our opinions distinguished is manga scan interpretations. I will try to go in depth with my explanations to show you why some of your opinions are in fact fallacious.

I didn't say he would, I said mere genjutsu. In the second interval of Naruto's awakening from the sharingan genjutsu/finger genjtusu/crow genjutsu, Itachi uses Amateratsu. Naruto won't feel the Chakra build up when he awakens, and once awakened, he might not be able to do anything about it. Didn't say that, I said it would make it harder for Naruto to counter GSB's attempt. Read correctly br0. That's your interpretation, mine is different. Anyways, make it like Hachibi and Bee, it is still at the very least one second from the point in which Sasuke used genjutsu and the point in which Bee awakened. Anyways, the scan your basing it off of, it was an obvious genjutsu were crows left his tentacle and Itachi told him not to look into his eyes, it couldn't have been any more easy to snap out of. On the other hand, him making it as realistic as possible, or not saying anything at all when using it, means that it will take longer to break out of.

Lol, first of all, @Bold - the small chakra built up iis alll thats required for naruto to prepare himself from the oncoming genjutsu meaning that he counters it by avoiding eye contact, and he can do this quite easily thanks to his SM sensing and reflexes
the chakra built up doesnt have to be anywhere near amaterasus, for naruto to counter it, he can sense and can evade eye contact for a brief time,

Agagin, if Naruto is making eye contact with Itachi, the second Itachi thinks of casting genjutsu, it happens. Similarly to how when Itachi and Sasuke looked each other in the eyes, they snapped each other out of genjutsu instantly, before a snake who was half way there was capable of doing anything. The slightest eye contact between Itachi and Naruto implies genjutsu. The slightest eye contact between Shima and Fukasaku implies genjutsu. What does Naruto do when they are under his genjutsu? He gets a tongue in the ear. Stop ignoring this point, Ma and Pa are very vulnerable to Itachi's genjutsu, which can control their actions. Sure, and what does Naruto do when Itachi forms a flock of crows who will put Naruto under genjutsu as well as form into Itachi and slice Naruto up? Nothing.

and again, why are you bringing up early part 2 naruto here,
War arc SM Naruto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Early Base part 2 naruto
alll ur claims are utmost moot here, seeing how my premise involves naruto being able to ''sense'' which base naruto clearly doesnt have,
and naruto had intel on finger genjutsu ''after'' their encounter, you are using 2 different cases and stating that because naruto knew of finger genjutsu in chapter 366, then naruto also knew in chapter 258, which is just wrong, since all the intel naruto had on finger genjutsu was after their encounter,

War Arc Naruto's genjutsu countering skills haven't increased unless you can give evidence for such. Naruto's intelligence to countering genjutsu hasn't increased since the adivce he was given by Jiraiya and Chiyo. You saying because his strength and abilities have increased implies him getting better at countering genjutsu is laughable at best. He knew everything he needed to know and still failed when he was fully readied to counter genjutsu from Itachi. Once again, the point is moot. I never claimed what you are saying, so I don't know what you're on about. He has to be ready for all genjutsu's, and the only chapter he was ready was in the one I provided. He got caught. End of story.

You have clearly ignored ALL of the scanss that i have provided, when they make clear sense in each of the case

first of all,

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,
i have already showed that kabutos suiton alone was enough to bust ribcage, what makes you think that COR wont be enough, Lol
and NO,

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,
secondly you have no proof of stating that V1 would be enough to tank COR, as you have stated before V3 is much more durable than V1, so we cant apply the same feats to iit,
and please, when you can show me how V1 tanked COR 'which it clearly didnt'' and when you can prove on ribcage tanking an attack on a greater magnitude than COR than we'll talk
you have ignored every scan that i have provided with no logical explanation, apart from ''madara wont be sitting there''
when he clearly resorted to V3 since ribcage wasnt enough
in conclusion
Ribcage is not durable enough to tank COR, and it was V3 that tanked it

Again, that is deductive fallacy. V2 would've pushed Naruto off in the same way v3 did, he simply resorted to v3 to continue a counter attack with his swords. Are you saying that if Juubito used one less TBB from the TBB tree he generated, the entire alliance within the barrier wouldn't have died? That's the same logic you are using, only because he goes through extreme means to kill them, doesn't mean these means were necessary, he simply did it because he could. Well clearly, Kabuto's suiton is either underrated, or you are overrating COR. Anyways, v1 Susano isn't a baseline comparison for the other Susano's, even if v1 Susano can be destroyed by kunai's, it doesn't imply v2 susano can be destroyed by Raikir. It's deductive fallacy once again, so I have no reason to argue this. The difference between v3 and it's later transfromation, v4, is ridiculous. This could be the same case for v1 and v2, then v3. Okay, so now I have agreed that v1 gets destroyed by COR for the sake of moving away from this point. How does that imply COFRS destroys v2/v3? Again, v3 didn't tank it, it pushed Naruto off in the same way v2 would, since they both include large growth at quick speeds, thus serving the same purpose. The only reason v3 was used was for the swords it wields at high power. You can clearly see it didn't tank anything at all, it just pushed Naruto away [

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]. If you still deny v2 can do the same exact thing, then you seriously need to work on your comprehension skills and start being a little less stubborn.

Lol no,

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, how on earth is that not a vulnerable state???? and how on earth is that a minor crack, if A's attack breached ribcage??
the scan you provided involves at a much later time, whre sasuke most likely reformed his ribcage,
and its also obvious that A's lateral chop was enough to bypass ribcage since we dont see any susanoo layer around sasuke at all

Noticed that, my bad. I thought the liger bomb didn't crack the susano so I assumed this wouldn't damage it and couldn't tell much from the scan since Sasuke took no damage at all, just noticed it doe. I agree, v1 got rekd by Ay, Kabuto and Tsunade. However, I fail to see how you can go on from that topic since v2 and v1 have a large difference in durability.

again, you are denying the scans, and avoiding them by providing something completely irrelevant,

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, iits clear that it was strong enough to overpower it,not to mention that it was also strong enough to counter the katon and still destroyed ribcage

Okay, admitted. Doesn't mean anything or contribute.

your scan is completely irrelevant since kabuto used suiton daibakubu to bypass ribcage, yet against itachi, he attemped to use suiryuudan, which was intercepted due to itachi being able to read his moves thanks to izanami, and due to him having the same jutsu whilst kabuto did nothing but just stand there

your entiire claim is debunked here, since you even had the jutsus wrong
COR didnt get to crack it since it didnt even explode, ffs, therefore neither susnaoo nor COR is undermined
so No, what i have claimed is not 'deductive fallacy''

Okay.

Youre going to need proof that V3 cant be formed within seconds, susanoo formation stems from the brain, and the more chakra you pull the greater the susanoo varriant is formed, its all a matter of chakra thats used,

your claim of V2 tanking Kirin is completely wrong when

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which is no where near Kirin,
then how the hell does it imply that V2 tanked kirin,????
the difference between danzos fuuton and kirin is enormous,
its just unheard of, to claim that the weaker susanoo tanked a much stronger atttack, yet a stronger susanoo was still blew open by danzos weak attackk
not to mention that

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he

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, therefore by logic and powerscaling its fair to say that the susanoo that most likely enabled itachi to survive is either V3 or V4

I showed the scan, it took more than 1/1000th of a second:

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. Zetsu was able to say all that in under 1 second, let alone two, is fallacious. But under 1/1000th of a second? Who are you kidding? And okay, that just means Baku's suction coupled with Danzo's high level Futon attacking from the v2 Susano's weak point (the back) is easier to tear open than a Susano being attacked by Kirin from its strong point. Anyways, Danzo's enhanced Futon caused a tear, Kirin absolutely erased it. Either way, unless you can present me some kind of implication of Susano being more than a v3 or v4, I have no reason to doubt the implications already set, which are 2; time required for v3 and Susano displayed when being presented to Sasuke as the juts which saved him.

Already explained and debunked above

Nope

Yes the explosions are almost equivalent,and they do compare its common sense
the uchiha hideout is not that big to begin with, and even if Kirin might be slightly stronger than FRS, however Kirin is not above COFRS thats just nonsense

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when its explosion was seen several meters away, and is on the same level as an average TBB

the uchiha hideout is still no where near the size of a mountain, its a mere building, therefore COFRS > Kirin >= FRS

Slightly? You must be blind to scans I have linked, so I'll link them in spoilers.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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This means 27.7x23.5=650.95 Sasuke's standing atop of each other would form the Uchiha hideout, and hundreds of thousands of Sasuke area wise. This contrasts the 10 I showed in the Raikage scan, though that's slightly different since he's in the middle of it, but it still wouldn't reach beyond 20 by standard graphical perspective. So no, it will never reach the 'slightly stronger' when it's in a completely different league. Especially when it destroyed that entire part, and not a single point over Itachi's head. FRS is leagues beneath Kirin. Hell even COFRS is much weaker based on the one time it was used. You showed me a scan of its usage, I see nothing special about it. No mountain busting like you claim, hell it didn't even create a crater where Madara stood, it simply further crumbled an

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crumble and broken ground. Where you see mountains turning into paste, or any implications of mountains turning into paste, I do not know. And no, it's not TBB level lmao. Nothing implies it is, and no such feat supports it. Mountain was never destroyed by COFRS. Kirin>>COFRS>>>FRS. Oh, and mountains are about equal in size to the Uchiha hideout [

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], so it's not 'a mere building'.

Comment on the thread that i have provided and we'll discuss it there because ur denial is really high here,
you're basing ur statements on whatever you want to think and are completely ignoring logic

Not gonna argue in two places, keep it here. I'm sticking to what I said. You based your arguments on the marks Madara had on his face. I showed you a scan of him having those exact marks prior to Hirudora's usage, so that goes out the window. The only thing left claiming Hirudora damaged Susano is the Mokuton release, which has to do with the distance between Madara and the Mokuton, or are you willing to claim Hashirama and Madara can control Mokuton from anywhere in the world?

itachi ignites the flames through his LoS
the clones would be blocking the flames thats for sure, whether real naruto is seen or not, then the dust cloud can most ceratinly be used which again can block the LoS completely,
and inb4 the chakra signature BS, when Pein also failed to see naruot despite his rinnegan being able to see charkra

Pein failing to see it=/=Itachi failing to see it. I already said, the ground was seen through with a sharingan, and the ground is much thicker/denser than gaseous particles. The only thing left to block his vision is chakra signature. This means he will only see Pa and Naruto, and not have site on Ma because of her chakra signature. This was the case against Zabuza, it's once again the case here. There's no reason for him not to see Naruto when the cloud is much thinner than the ground he stood on against Deidara. Transplanted Rinnegan failing=/=Sharingan failing.

Lol Devas rinnegan lacking is just BS,
its Nagatos eyes, deva is just a mere corpse
the paths failed to see naruto and eeven gamabunta behind the dust cloud meaning their LoS was blocked
therefore itachis LoS is also gettting blocked
whether the sharingan can see chakra as colours is still irrelevant when they cant locate naruto at alll

Sharingan can see through ground=it can see through gaseous particles etc. Only thing that would stop him from doing so is if Naruto's chakra signature is in the surrounding environment. Too bad for you, its not, hence Itachi can see Naruto's chakra signature differentiated. Argue that the gaseous particles are thicker than the ground, and then you have an argument (shitty one, but nonetheless an argument).

Lol Jukai Kotan was huge, it formed an entire forest
they are at the very least comparable, seeing how both of them covered the entire battlefield

Spoiler

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Much forest, much wows. Look at Madara in comparison to the branches, now look at Kisame [

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] in comparison to the sharks. If you still are trying to tell me it is slightly comparable in size, then I'm just gonna laugh it off.

Lol you keep on saying the same BS over and over again,
tsukuyomi is sensed and eye contact is evaded, thats all that naruto needs,
he can stil break the genjutsu within seconds through partner method,

and Lol, Danzo still used KA, which is superior to tsukuyomi, yet they broke it through an outer source which you seem to be ignoring

No, Tsukiyomi occurs the instant Naruto is looked at, and can be used in combination with crows who can also cast genjutsu. If Naruto attempts to look away, the nearby crows reform and slice him up. More so, Itachi can seal the Amateratsu within any of the crows of his choice [

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]. Once the crow makes contact with Naruto, we can see an amateratsu go off from two sides, and the crows forming to block any of Naruto's clones attempting to interfere. Naruto cannot do anything to them when they haven't formed, and neither can Ma and Pa, who are vulnerable to their genjutsu prowess. That would be GG Naruto. Tsukiyomi, in seconds as YOU just stated, can create 72 hours of torture which nearly killed Kakashi. Naruto isn't any different. tsukiyomi activates=Naruto loses.

Danzo has 0 feats of KA, and no knowledge of it. KA was never stated to be unbreakable by anyone but the Uchiha like Tsukiyomi was, it was simply stated to cause realistic delusions beyond any other genjutsu. So once again, fail comparison. Give me a scan of KA, or DB statement of KA being unstoppable by non-Uchiha bloodlines. I can give you both for the tsukiyomi, maybe it will help get through your dense head.

Databook 2 - Tsukuyomi:
NINJUTSU; KEKKEI GENKAI; Tsukuyomi
User: Uchiha Itachi
Supplementary; Close range; Rank: none

Main text

Amidst the insight and hypnosis possessed by Sharingan, is a supreme genjutsu, born from the aforementioned hypnosis: Tsukuyomi. Originally, people on the face of the Earth live bound by limitations like time, gravity, and space; and how people exert their abilities within those restrictions is what separates the victors from the vanquished. But in the mental world where the caster drags their opponent, the Tsukuyomi jutsu gives them control over those very limitations!

Namely, this means inside the genjutsu, the physical world's common sense is completely irrelevant and opposing the caster is impossible. Somebody caught into the Tsukuyomi find themselves into a strange world of infinity, their fate entirely lying inside the caster's hands. Some time, they will undergo the torments of Hell, and some other time, they will be repeatedly shown a horrendous, hellish picture of agony and mayhem*, with no idea of when either of those will end. As a result, the poor prisoner can only wait until the collapse of their psyches...!! Even a body made of iron or the speed of light are powerless before this jutsu, which is the reason why it is feared as the most powerful.

Sharingan is the Kekkei Genkai of the clan labelled as the most powerful, the Uchiha clan. Even among those who have Sharingan, that jutsu cannot be operated without having Mangekyou, which is its culminating point. Concurrently, the only ones who can defeat Tsukuyomi are Sharingan possessors... And even then, exclusively the elite shinobi who have reached particularly high degrees of skillfulness. Once could say this is truly a God-given jutsu solely allowed to those blessed with Uchiha blood and prodigious aptitudes.

@bold Only Uchiha who are elite. Again in this scan

Spoiler

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Only Sharingan users with Uchiha blood. It's absolutely exclusive to Uchiha blood, hence the Sharingan couldn't break it. It's really that simple, supported both by DB and Manga, as well as an occurrence in which a Sharingan user couldn't break a genjutsu or slightly resist it. You still trying to deny this is likely the case, in which I will just ignore you for ignoring manga scans. Hell, you even said it takes a few seconds to break out with the partner method, Kakashi said 3 days was merely a few seconds, meaning break out or not, you've still lost.

 

[ARGUS]

This is a little long for my taste, I'll shorten it by addressing the key points and disregarding things that are too insignificant for relevancy. You had great points at first, but as we continued into the debate one can see we both have points based on manga evidence, and the only thing keeping our opinions distinguished is manga scan interpretations. I will try to go in depth with my explanations to show you why some of your opinions are in fact fallacious.

Lmao its too long for me as well,
and the funny thing is that we both still agree on naruto losing,

and @bold - Lol, my claims are all backed up by manga scans, they arent fallacious at all

I didn't say he would, I said mere genjutsu. In the second interval of Naruto's awakening from the sharingan genjutsu/finger genjtusu/crow genjutsu, Itachi uses Amateratsu. Naruto won't feel the Chakra build up when he awakens, and once awakened, he might not be able to do anything about it. Didn't say that, I said it would make it harder for Naruto to counter GSB's attempt. Read correctly br0. That's your interpretation, mine is different. Anyways, make it like Hachibi and Bee, it is still at the very least one second from the point in which Sasuke used genjutsu and the point in which Bee awakened. Anyways, the scan your basing it off of, it was an obvious genjutsu were crows left his tentacle and Itachi told him not to look into his eyes, it couldn't have been any more easy to snap out of. On the other hand, him making it as realistic as possible, or not saying anything at all when using it, means that it will take longer to break out of.

@Bold - Lol what, naruto can easily sense amaterasus built up, and block the LoS through smoke bombs, he can also use mas dust cloud to counter amaterasu,
amaterasu has a huge chakra built up as seen how nagato was able to sense well before the flames spawned, therefore allowing naruto more than enough time to counter it

and whether the normal sharingan genjutsu has a built up or not,

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and having one second for an openning is certainly not enough for the duo, thats for sure,

and i dont see why youre bringing up GSB, when i havent addressed it at all, and its irrelevant in our debate, the thing that ur wrong at, is genjutsu followed by totsuka blitz, thats certainly not happening here

Agagin, if Naruto is making eye contact with Itachi, the second Itachi thinks of casting genjutsu, it happens. Similarly to how when Itachi and Sasuke looked each other in the eyes, they snapped each other out of genjutsu instantly, before a snake who was half way there was capable of doing anything. The slightest eye contact between Itachi and Naruto implies genjutsu. The slightest eye contact between Shima and Fukasaku implies genjutsu. What does Naruto do when they are under his genjutsu? He gets a tongue in the ear. Stop ignoring this point, Ma and Pa are very vulnerable to Itachi's genjutsu, which can control their actions. Sure, and what does Naruto do when Itachi forms a flock of crows who will put Naruto under genjutsu as well as form into Itachi and slice Naruto up? Nothing.

Lol this post is wrong, very wrong,
first of all, if itachi focuses on putting ma and pa under a genjutsu then hes just wasting his time, since he would be focused entirely on casting the genjutsu on the frogs, therefore leaving him vulnerable for narutos attacks, not to mention that naruto and the other toad would be capable of breaking the victim out of genjutsu with ease,
naruto has SM sensing and now with his intel he is more than capable of avoidding eye contact befoore itachi casts a genjutsu on him

your statement is based entirely on ifs,

War Arc Naruto's genjutsu countering skills haven't increased unless you can give evidence for such. Naruto's intelligence to countering genjutsu hasn't increased since the adivce he was given by Jiraiya and Chiyo. You saying because his strength and abilities have increased implies him getting better at countering genjutsu is laughable at best. He knew everything he needed to know and still failed when he was fully readied to counter genjutsu from Itachi. Once again, the point is moot. I never claimed what you are saying, so I don't know what you're on about. He has to be ready for all genjutsu's, and the only chapter he was ready was in the one I provided. He got caught. End of story.

Lmao, he has kurama cooperating with him, thats one of the best genjutsu countering assets one could have,

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and for the millionth time, you still havent addressed this point, but naruto has SM sensing that enables him to sense the built up and be wary of any oncoming genjutsu therefore he can just evade eye contact, and naruto having the clones means that itachi wont be able to distinguish between them, and if he focuses on one certain clone then the other entitiies such as summons, and other clones, as well as the real naruto can attack him with ease,

Again, that is deductive fallacy. V2 would've pushed Naruto off in the same way v3 did, he simply resorted to v3 to continue a counter attack with his swords. Are you saying that if Juubito used one less TBB from the TBB tree he generated, the entire alliance within the barrier wouldn't have died? That's the same logic you are using, only because he goes through extreme means to kill them, doesn't mean these means were necessary, he simply did it because he could.

How is it deductive fallacy????
i have used scans to explain each and every attack,, and common powerscaling should also be eviddennt enough that COR can bust Ribcage,
@Bold - you have no proof that V2 could have tanked COR, and even if it could, ur only focusing on V2 pushing naruto back, furthermore madara resorting to V3 is not based on deductive fallacy, its common sense since his ribcage was clearly not enough to tank the attack, and he obviously noted the attack rubbing off his susanoos layer, therefore he resorted to usiing a stronger susanoo to push naruto back,
whether madara wasnted to attack the SA afterwards was irrelevant since ribcage was still not enough to tank COR, especially when the jutsu did not even explode, and rubbed the layer upon mere contact

your example of Juubito is clearly just stupid, since my logic is not based on that, especially when we clearly saw COR damaging ribcage before the attack even took into effect,

Well clearly, Kabuto's suiton is either underrated, or you are overrating COR. Anyways, v1 Susano isn't a baseline comparison for the other Susano's, even if v1 Susano can be destroyed by kunai's, it doesn't imply v2 susano can be destroyed by Raikir. It's deductive fallacy once again, so I have no reason to argue this. The difference between v3 and it's later transfromation, v4, is ridiculous. This could be the same case for v1 and v2, then v3. Okay, so now I have agreed that v1 gets destroyed by COR for the sake of moving away from this point. How does that imply COFRS destroys v2/v3? Again, v3 didn't tank it, it pushed Naruto off in the same way v2 would, since they both include large growth at quick speeds, thus serving the same purpose. The only reason v3 was used was for the swords it wields at high power. You can clearly see it didn't tank anything at all, it just pushed Naruto away [

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]. If you still deny v2 can do the same exact thing, then you seriously need to work on your comprehension skills and start being a little less stubborn.

I never stated that v3 tanked COR, it was just used to push naruto awway since ribcage wasnt enough to tank it, thats alll there is to it,

@Bold - you have seen the light,,
however I am not underrating Kabutos suiton nor am i overrating COR, the difference in DC between both of them is still quite evident,

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and the

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this is all the result of a normal rasengan, COR is obviously much stronger,
if you seriously think that kabutos suiton (which is infused with SM) could damage juubito to this extent, then NO, the gap between a normal rasengan and kabutos suiton is immense let alone COR

moreover, ur claim of V2 tanking kirin is just absurd
especially when Danzos fuuton blew a hole in V3 (a superior susanoo) when the fuuton is no wherre near the level of kirrin, as we both have established that, Kirin would have most likely resulted in itachi getting killed, had he used V3 susanoo, the only susanooo of itachi that can tank an attack of this magnitude is V4, anything less would get crushed

COFRS is comparable if not then its most likely superior to Kirin, seeing how large the magnitude of the attack is, and kirin still busted V4, COFRS is doing the same, regardless of yata, which lacks feats therefore the best it could have is the durability of V4, (not to mention that itachi cant maintain it for long periods anyways)

Noticed that, my bad. I thought the liger bomb didn't crack the susano so I assumed this wouldn't damage it and couldn't tell much from the scan since Sasuke took no damage at all, just noticed it doe. I agree, v1 got rekd by Ay, Kabuto and Tsunade. However, I fail to see how you can go on from that topic since v2 and v1 have a large difference in durability.

Cool, no problems then
There is a difference between ribcage and V2 susanoo in terms of durability but the difference isnnt as vast as ur suggesting,

Okay, admitted. Doesn't mean anything or contribute.
Okay.

Cool Lol

I showed the scan, it took more than 1/1000th of a second:

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. Zetsu was able to say all that in under 1 second, let alone two, is fallacious. But under 1/1000th of a second? Who are you kidding? And okay, that just means Baku's suction coupled with Danzo's high level Futon attacking from the v2 Susano's weak point (the back) is easier to tear open than a Susano being attacked by Kirin from its strong point. Anyways, Danzo's enhanced Futon caused a tear, Kirin absolutely erased it. Either way, unless you can present me some kind of implication of Susano being more than a v3 or v4, I have no reason to doubt the implications already set, which are 2; time required for v3 and Susano displayed when being presented to Sasuke as the juts which saved him.

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its not just a skeletal susanoo which is V2,

I am well aware of the the possible time taken to awaken the susanoo,

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, and him introducing his technique also enabed him to do this in time,
furthermore, based on power scaling and common sense, no susanoo bar V4 or possibly V3 is enough to survive itachi from an attack of this magniitude,

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at the very least the susanoo that enabled itachi to survive was V3,
however ur point @Bold about the susanoo being displayed is stil irrelevant, since itachii clearly lost his susanoo after getting hit by kirin,

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, therefore that doesnt imply anything at all

the only thing thats possible is the time taken which i agree with you on, however susanoo just requires the amount of chakra that the user pumps in, the techniques activation is nigh instant, as it stems directly from the brain, whether be it V4 or ribcage,

Slightly? You must be blind to scans I have linked, so I'll link them in spoilers.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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This means 27.7x23.5=650.95 Sasuke's standing atop of each other would form the Uchiha hideout, and hundreds of thousands of Sasuke area wise. This contrasts the 10 I showed in the Raikage scan, though that's slightly different since he's in the middle of it, but it still wouldn't reach beyond 20 by standard graphical perspective. So no, it will never reach the 'slightly stronger' when it's in a completely different league. Especially when it destroyed that entire part, and not a single point over Itachi's head. FRS is leagues beneath Kirin. Hell even COFRS is much weaker based on the one time it was used. You showed me a scan of its usage, I see nothing special about it. No mountain busting like you claim, hell it didn't even create a crater where Madara stood, it simply further crumbled an

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crumble and broken ground. Where you see mountains turning into paste, or any implications of mountains turning into paste, I do not know. And no, it's not TBB level lmao. Nothing implies it is, and no such feat supports it. Mountain was never destroyed by COFRS. Kirin>>COFRS>>>FRS. Oh, and mountains are about equal in size to the Uchiha hideout [

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], so it's not 'a mere building'.

I concede, Kirin has a larger blast radius to a normal FRS
however COFRS is still comparable if not then most likely superior to Kirin

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that is

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notice the blast radius,
hell it could be debatable on COFRS being even stronger due to the technique damaging on a cellular level, they both busted the mountains, and based on feats, and by noticing the AOE of TBB, COFRS and kirin, its clear as day that TBB and COFRS are above kirin,

Not gonna argue in two places, keep it here. I'm sticking to what I said. You based your arguments on the marks Madara had on his face. I showed you a scan of him having those exact marks prior to Hirudora's usage, so that goes out the window. The only thing left claiming Hirudora damaged Susano is the Mokuton release, which has to do with the distance between Madara and the Mokuton, or are you willing to claim Hashirama and Madara can control Mokuton from anywhere in the world?

No because these posts are gettiing awfully long thats why
Hirudora clearly damaged madara moore than enough to break his control over the mokuton,
had the susanoo tanked it, then the mokuton grip wouldve never loosened,
and madara had scruff marks on his body not his face,

Pein failing to see it=/=Itachi failing to see it. I already said, the ground was seen through with a sharingan, and the ground is much thicker/denser than gaseous particles. The only thing left to block his vision is chakra signature. This means he will only see Pa and Naruto, and not have site on Ma because of her chakra signature. This was the case against Zabuza, it's once again the case here. There's no reason for him not to see Naruto when the cloud is much thinner than the ground he stood on against Deidara. Transplanted Rinnegan failing=/=Sharingan failing.

Sharingan can see through ground=it can see through gaseous particles etc. Only thing that would stop him from doing so is if Naruto's chakra signature is in the surrounding environment. Too bad for you, its not, hence Itachi can see Naruto's chakra signature differentiated. Argue that the gaseous particles are thicker than the ground, and then you have an argument (shitty one, but nonetheless an argument).

Actually it does mean the same thing,
Rinnegan can still see chakra, be it madara or nagatos,

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and

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and the

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furthermore this whole chakra signatture thing seems to be just weird,
itachi may be able to see chakra, but the smoke bombs enable naruto to hide his presense as the smoke will pretty much act as a layer to prevent itachi from using amaterasu,

sharingan has never shown to be able to see through objects, thats just fanfic, thats the byakugans ability not the sharingan, all the sharingan has been able to do is see chakra,, nothing more than that

Spoiler

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Much forest, much wows. Look at Madara in comparison to the branches, now look at Kisame [

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] in comparison to the sharks. If you still are trying to tell me it is slightly comparable in size, then I'm just gonna laugh it off.

Ok, i hate getting into size arguments anyways,

No, Tsukiyomi occurs the instant Naruto is looked at, and can be used in combination with crows who can also cast genjutsu. If Naruto attempts to look away, the nearby crows reform and slice him up. More so, Itachi can seal the Amateratsu within any of the crows of his choice [

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]. Once the crow makes contact with Naruto, we can see an amateratsu go off from two sides, and the crows forming to block any of Naruto's clones attempting to interfere. Naruto cannot do anything to them when they haven't formed, and neither can Ma and Pa, who are vulnerable to their genjutsu prowess. That would be GG Naruto. Tsukiyomi, in seconds as YOU just stated, can create 72 hours of torture which nearly killed Kakashi. Naruto isn't any different. tsukiyomi activates=Naruto loses.

The entire bold is just laughable
first of all amaterasu is still countered by dust cloud whether you like it or not, meaning that with the LoS blocked its not landing,
secondly itachi using tsukuyomi and amateasru through mulitple crows is just fanfic, when hypothetical healthy itachi was drained heavily after using eiither of the two,

tsukuyomi may occur in seconds but its not less than a second meaning that the biijuu can break the user free, and i have already showed that all the effects would be completley nullfied once the genjutsu is broken,
furthermore naruto can evade eye contact anyways

Danzo has 0 feats of KA, and no knowledge of it. KA was never stated to be unbreakable by anyone but the Uchiha like Tsukiyomi was, it was simply stated to cause realistic delusions beyond any other genjutsu. So once again, fail comparison. Give me a scan of KA, or DB statement of KA being unstoppable by non-Uchiha bloodlines. I can give you both for the tsukiyomi, maybe it will help get through your dense head.

Danzo still used KA on Mifune,
every genjutsu is breakable, hell even IT is breakable by a rinnegan, and IT >> Tsukuyomi
genjutsu is breakable by anyone with the same dojutsu or a superior dojutsu,
sasuke wasnt in this category so the only exception that made it plausible was his relationship with itachi,

KA is still stated to be the strongest genjutsu, superior to Tsukuyomi and if KA is broken, then tsukuyomi is also breakable,

the logic you are using is just flawed since it was stated that only gentle fist can counter kidomarus webs, however the brothers still countered it quite well through amaterasu