Sm MinatO Vs Pain

Edogawa

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there's nothing to suggest Pain is very fast
But there are feats which display Pain is faster than Nagato himself, whom blitzed Killer Bee whom reacted to Minato twice at his inexperienced state. In the end, Nagato doesn't need to be fast to shit on Minato. Biju-sized or mountain Shinra Tensei does kills him.
 
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Edogawa

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Almost instant<instant.

If you really think pain can get a ST off before minato teleports then I don’t know what to say lol

Nvm that rep bar explains it bro
My question is how will Minato teleport when he can't see ST coming? I believe it was a simple question.

What does my rep bar explain? That's like saying your low friend list on FB explains something. I could make the same comment on your poor grammar.
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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But there are feats which display Pain is faster than Nagato himself, whom blitzed Killer Bee whom reacted to Minato twice at his inexperienced state. In the end, Nagato doesn't need to be fast to shit on Minato. Biju-sized or mountain Shinra Tensei does kills him.
What are those? The most I've seen was Pain avoiding Rasenshurikens.
 

Rikudou Tobi

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I'm gonna use VS section logic here.

Pain wins because he's a god that destroys and recreate the world. god>shinobi
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Uverdore9

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Why do you think I showed you what happened to SM Jiraiya and Sm Naruto when they went up against Pain? How can you say that Shinra Tensei will do little to no damage to a Toad senjutsu user when Pain broke Chief Toad's bones and killed Fukasaku who's a better Sage Mode user than Jiraiya and Naruto. All you're doing is stating hype about Sage Mode being in a different level when Pain already defeated Sage Mode numerous times already. Why don't you point out the Rinnegan's hype instead since you like to digress from legitimate manga feats.
The fact that you're repeating things that I already counter means that you actually can't rationalize or you simply just don't want to read my post and just reply for name sake.
Fukasaku is a senjutsu user but he is not in 'Sage mode'. He do not have to go into Sage mode like minato or jiraiya to use senjutsu. Invulnerability to physical attacks is the power of 'Sage Mode'. Gamabunta can use Senjutsu are we gonna consider him a sage now? No. He is not a 'sage' he is just someone who uses Senjutsu. We know there is a difference in that. We know Minato would not die from such a attack because when he is in Sage mode physical attacks bar Rod Penetration(which is yinyang creation) is completely meaningless before Sage mode user like we know after reading this manga.
I'm not gonna repeat myself again, there is no such thing as Gravity realm. It's Tendo realm and he controls magnetic forces NOT gravity. Anybody can dodge a thrown kunai knife Pain easily dodges it, throwing something is not a foot speed feat.
We know it is not literal magnetism. It is akin to magnetism. We know that because of Kakashi's statement 'It's similar to magnetic forces'. Minato can mark the ground and even if Pain pushes it the mark would not disappear as we know because it is not chakra. Pain cannot dodge it, there is no proof Pain can when V1 A could not as we know. Even if Pain slightly dodge it, minato teleports and pulverizes with NE Rasengan.

No not really. It depends on what type of physical energy you have because Choji's physical energy is caloric energy that increases your size which gets into the realm of special chakra/secret arts. Also when you increase your size, you increase your mass and power. Other than that in base form Choji is not physically strong and even Ino was able to drag him by the scarf in order to save Sakura in the Chuunin exam Forest of Death.
So when Danzo achieved his Hashirama cells he was still physical weak, even Sasuke was stronger than him.
Also that quote is wrong, this is what Tobi actually said:
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What you're quoting is some useless mangareader translation which is fan made.
Hashirama's cells increased his physical energy- Fact. As we know though there are different physical energies, hashirama's type is the most powerful. Why do we know this is correct? Because every top tier went in search for Hashirama's cellular energy which increases thier durability, healing capacity.
IMPORTANT: @Bold here is very hypocritical considering that you explicitly said that Tobi had NO control over his sharingan therefore he can't break Hashirama's. You said that Tobi had no skill in using the sharingan and that Kakashi master his eyes and not the orginal user. You even said that Tobi didn't control any jinchuuriki blatantly lying and now you're saying that he does have mastery over the sharingan and that he did control a perfect Jinchuuriki? You're either stubborn or just a troll because you just contradicted yourself.
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That could be Madara, I am pointing out strict facts, so I thought I should not bring my theory into this. Because the only one ever controlled a Bijuu was Madara and obito has never shown this ability. Anyway we know the guy who fought minato had perfect control over hashirama's cells because otherwise he would have been eaten by said cells because an enormous amount of chakra and concentration must be dedicated to Kyuubi to control it and we know Tobi said controlling Hashirama's power is not a small thing and we are talking about a war veteran who was consumed when he lost a wholesome amount of chakra.

Well now that you excepted that fact that Tobi does have control over his sharingan, you need to realize that the wood style alone cannot control a perfect jinchuuriki and that sharingan alone cannot control a jinchuuriki either, they can only suppress their chakra.
The reason why Tobi was able to do all these ridiculous feats is because of his Six Path Powers, which is what Uchiha+senju bloodline and power together equals.
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As you can see the power of both Uchiha and Senju is the power to create (izanagi) and the power to control living beings as well as bijus. That's why Tobi was able to control a perfect jichuuriki and perfectly extract a jinchuuriki because only six path powers of done that. Senju powers suppress chakra not control it, it's never been able to extract jinchuuriki's like Six path powers have been able to do.
We should know that if Tobi has full power of Six Paths Powers then Minato kunai not piercing his body is justifiable as it show Hashirama's cell power as we know. There is in no way it was not mastered, as we know Flying thunder god is capable of cutting through V1 Ay's Armour which no one can refute because clear manga proof.
Tobi didn't even control a perfect jinchuuriki until he was 20 years old too. When he had the rinnegan he was able to control 6 more.
That is six path technique which is not controlling in the literal manner. It is just an edo tensei control by piercing black rods.

Honestly I can say that this is an assumption too. The only reason why it's clear that a crappy little knife could not pierce Lightning armour is because it couldn't cut through Hachibi's tail in half, and Lightning armour is more durable than Hachibi's tails. Even SM Naruto's rasengan couldn't pierce through 3rd Ay's lightning armour.
We should try comparing the thing at hand with thing at hand. Did Bee afraid of Ay being wounded? Yes. Did he charge in time to protect Ay? Yes. We know it will cut right through Armour and sliced Bee's tail. Bee's tail might not be the most durable part but we know it touched Magma and was not even affected in the slightest.

It does when the knife is a lot thinner than the little pocket knife. You can't even use that kind of argument considering the fact that more than half of the chidori spear didn't even make contact with the hachibi tail. Even chidori has more cutting power than chidori spear so what's ftg's excuse?

The tails do not have the same durability as the main body obviously becuse 3rd Ay was able to chop off all of Hachibi's tails during their fight easily but not the main body.
@Bold is a completely horrid analogy because both juubi and Kurama are using the same type of chakra bomb. Any logical person knows that you don't compare lava to a knife because lava burns and knives penetrate. Lava is a liquid and you cannot compare it to a solid, that's what makes what you're saying illogical.
We know it is the same thing because pressure is same for every substance in this earth. Lava of equal damage and knife of equal damage does same amount of damage. We know this fact clearly.


It's not a translation error because Kishi word directly with Viz, they translate with each other word for word. Anime is SP, those things are filler bullshit that have nothing to do with Kishi. They don't even ask for his permission when they start filling in battle scenes and adding characters that never existed in the manga. So it's NOT gravitational force it's magnetic force.
The reason why Viz is obviously right (besides the fact that they are more certified than you) is because gravity does not repel forces only magnetic force can do that.
So why are you arguing this when you don't even know that gravity doesn't have the capability of repulsion?
Chibaku tensei was said to have gravitational forces not Tendo's Shinra Tensei.
We should understand Viz is not translating word for word that is just false. They make thier own contexts out of certain sentences. I have given examples of how VIZ mistranslated certain pages. SP never changes dialogues. There is no proof they changes it. Filler is seperate from canon anime which we know are not altered.

There's so many things wrong with this analogy here that it's borderline illogical.
1. It's not gravity period.
2. Sage Mode frog markings are suppose to be on humans not Frogs, it's dumb for Frogs to gain more frog marking when they are already a frog.
3. Fukasaku knows Sage Jutsu, I'm shocked that you would say that he doesn't when the manga says otherwise. Read:
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4. Jiraiya doesn't know how to sense yet he knows Sage Mode. Fukasaku was the one that taught naruto how to sense using Sage Mode, he was the first one to show it. His classification is Sage and he's one of the best Sage Mode users in the series.
5. Pain already told Pain that he wasn't going to kill him and I already discuss this. So if you know this then you have no business bringing it up. As for the other Sage Mode users Shinra Tensei has hurt them severely and Pain's jutsus killed two of them (Pa and Jiraiya).
6. Katsuyu has regeneration properties that reform after being completely destroyed. While Naruto and any other Sage Mode user does not. So that's a horrble example. If Naruto can cut himself into mini pieces and repair himself back together again like Katsuyu then call me.
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7. Senjutsu is Sage Transformation. Even Jugo stated this in the manga.
8. Minato did not master Sage Mode in fact Naruto is better than him so going this far to wank a character you don't like means that you really just feel like disagreeing with me on everything. My assumption is that you became friends with some idiot in this base who opposes everything I say.
Minato's never used Sage Mode in combat, he's horrible at it, can't even maintain it for long, doesn't know how to sense in SM, and he doesn't even know how to use the Sage Jutsu enhanced strength. He can't even last as long as Naruto did when he fought Pain.
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Complete misconception. We should know by now Frogs cannot go into Sage mode they just use Senjutsu. This is not debateable as we know. Which is why we know Sage Mode learners are so strong asf but Sage frogs are weak asf as we can concede from thier performances in manga. They cannot use chakra concentrated in thier feet as we have no proof they can. Minato not using Sage mode in battle is it takes him so much time to mold Senjutsu Chakra. Not to use NE. We should understand that entering Sage Mode is when our body is adaptable to the NE's overwhelming power as in when we gather it. When we gather too much NE we cannot use Senjutsu as Fukasaku states. Minato's problem lies in the fact he cannot mold SM chakra in time. He can absorb NE though. He can use Frog Kata, he has the sage markings without frog affinities like Jiraiya which means he is a greater SM user than Jiraiya. He instantly entered SM as we have read and seen with our eyes. Sage Mode not equal to Senjutsu Chakra = Fact of Manga as we know.


If Minato spreads around his marking like he did against Bee and Ay, Pain would just Shinra Tensei all of them away easily destroying them making your whole scenario useless.
Gakido is next to Tendo so all of Minato's rasengans are uselss and Shurado will deal with Minato at a distance with lasers and missles.
Animal paths take out all of Minato's summonings leaving Jigokudo to do whatever he wants to Minato.
Those Six paths'weapon rods did nothing to deter Kakashi from attacking, he clearly dodge it and your trolling your ass off.
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Two pain's dodged it

This is Wrong. the interval happens after he's repelled the Ftg knife, so there is no way for minato to teleport right towards Pain if he's already repulse the knives.
chibaku tensei cannot be tanked with Sage Mode, that's silly talk and even Naruto said that Kurama was the only reason why he survived it. Thinking that Sage Mode can tank a planetoid is just desperate.


No it's not a misinterpretation, the manga specifically said that Sasuke's Rage caused his chakra to change. So you''re wrong on that part again.
And when Tobirama marked Obito he removed that very same seal again after the alliance defeated him. Otherwise Tobirama would've been with Obito, Kakashi, Naruto, and Sasuke in other dimensions.


No he mastered Sage Mode and surpassed Jiraiya's level. The manga stated this already. His problem was that he wasn't able to maintain it for long. Minato as stated above didn't even master Sage Mode and he never used it for battle. So he's gonna be even worse than Naruto when he was still training.


Look above, he's unable to do any of these things as far as the manga goes.

Sage Mode made him even slower and he couldn't dodge a simple kick. He's horrible at Sage Mode because i takes him too long to knead senjutsu chakra. 3rd Ay was stated to be fast by kcm Naruto.
We know this is a misconception. Minato could react enough to Eighth gate Gai and he could react and tag Ay's top speed with and without SM as we know. Even if ST deflects the Kunais Minato could take advantage and throw a kunai beside a Pain and destroy them with a Gigantic Rasengan induced with NE the size which Jiraiya created or even bigger as we know Minato mastered Shape Manipulation to the highest degree. Preta do not possess the reflexes to absorb a FTG supported Rasengan, as we know. The Rasengan surrounds thd entire radius of Pain arranged vertically as we know and even if one pain escapes, minato could chase him with his body flicker which is faster than Edo Tobirama and cut him with Kunai easily. Shurado and Ningendo are useless as Minato can dodge blasts effortlessly with his Raikage level Reaction Speed as per Cee's words as we know. The fact Minato can react to top speed Ay after teleporting with Raijin is proof enough he can dodge all of Pains attacks. Juubito did it because he is the Juubi's Jinchuuriki who is called a God who created countries so he has godly abilities to remove it.We know normal absorption is undoubtedly useless because even after Minato died the Markings never ceased to exist till his ressurection. When someone dies thier chakra ceases to exist. SusanoO grows in power depending on the emotion of the Uchiiha, we know SusanOO is not normal chakra as we know chakra normally can be converted into many shapes which SusanoO's special chakra cannot be. Uchihas can convert real emotion into power. Otherwise it would have blatantly stated as chakra, Karin was talking about Indra's Chakra as we know by grasping the contextual message because Naruto sensed Indra during the Battle of Bridge VS Danzo time period. Indra's Chakra was taking over as we know. It cannot be compared to Normal chakra changes as Tobi said 'His rage is growing nicely and his body is merely reacting to it'. As we can read the context, there is emotional power merging with Physical energy of Sasuke Body which is not anything related to mere chakra. As we know, Pain cannot convert chakra into other forms. Ay's top speed is stated to be inferior to Flying Raijin's teleportation speed so we know Tendo would not react anytime soon to the following Rasengan attack even if he staggeringly evades the Kunai. Or we know Minato could slice his head if he dodges kunai by appearing behind him.
 

Edogawa

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there's nothing to suggest Pain is very fast
Seeing as how an injured Deva Path dodged FRS at point-blank, which moves as fast Enton Arrow that the likes of Kakashi could not dodge and keep it in mind Kakashi is as fast as Itachi and Sasuke, then Pain is extremely a fast character.

-Teenage Killer Bee reacts to Minato twice without knowledge on Hirashin.
-Sasuke and Itachi who are slower than Pain keep up with adult Killer Bee.
-An old, crippled drained Nagato keeps up with Killer Bee.
-Pain > Nagato/Itachi/Sasuke in speed.

Pain has no problem keeping up with Hirasihin, if slower characters could. But then again, why is speed important when Pain can just reshape the map to however he sees? Just one Shinra Tensei decimates the landscape and kills Minato and all of his marked kunais inside the blast
 
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