[VS] SM Minato durability contest

[Brother Numpsay]

Uh, no. Muki Tensei is not controlled with Senjutsu Chakra. Kabuto said that life energy being used to control it makes it go beyond regular chakra manipulation.

Regardless of interpretation, what Kabuto is controlling is being augmented. Thats clear

 

[KidGamer65]

Regardless of interpretation, what Kabuto is controlling is being augmented. Thats clear

Not really. It's feats don't imply it's augmented. The only way reason it'd be stronger is because it actually has velocity, which will make it hit harder than if it had no velocity.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Not really. It's feats don't imply it's augmented. The only way reason it'd be stronger is because it actually has velocity, which will make it hit harder than if it had no velocity.

If it doesn't have "feats" that implies then how in the world did the heat of Enton kill it and brought it back to original stage?

Even life force can be interpret in ways that still classifies it as Ninjutsu base.

 

[KidGamer65]

If it doesn't have "feats" that implies then how in the world did the heat of Enton kill it and brought it back to original stage?

Even life force can be interpret in ways that still classifies it as Ninjutsu base.

Enton negating Kabuto's control=/=The rocks being enhanced in power.

Ninjutsu based? Yes. Are the rocks enhanced? Nothing proves it.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Enton negating Kabuto's control=/=The rocks being enhanced in power.

Ninjutsu based? Yes. Are the rocks enhanced? Nothing proves it.

So with this logic we can conclude chakra > Muki Tensei

 

[KidGamer65]

So with this logic we can conclude chakra > Muki Tensei

Go right ahead. Kabuto stating it goes beyond chakra manipulation doesn't automatically mean that it'll be stronger than something refined by chakra. Beyond doesn't have to refer to strength.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Go right ahead. Kabuto stating it goes beyond chakra manipulation doesn't automatically mean that it'll be stronger than something refined by chakra. Beyond doesn't have to refer to strength.

"It doesnt have to". So I should go ahead and say it isn't so, while ignoring this is senjutsu base for it to be possible. Which manga also states senjutsu is a superior version of ninjutsu.

Hmm, should I?

Na, im good.

 

[KidGamer65]

"It doesnt have to". So I should go ahead and say it isn't so, while ignoring this is senjutsu base for it to be possible. Which manga also states senjutsu is a superior version of ninjutsu.

Hmm, should I?

Na, im good.

It being Senjutsu means nothing, because the rocks aren't being controlled by Senjutsu Chakra. It being Senjutsu only means that it'll be superior to it's non Senjutsu counterpart. It being Senjutsu doesn't put it above all Ninjutsu.

So once again, unless you have something that'd cause Muki Tensei to make the stuff it controls stronger, there is no argument here.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

It being Senjutsu means nothing, because the rocks aren't being controlled by Senjutsu Chakra. It being Senjutsu only means that it'll be superior to it's non Senjutsu counterpart. It being Senjutsu doesn't put it above all Ninjutsu.

So once again, unless you have something that'd cause Muki Tensei to make the stuff it controls stronger, there is no argument here.

Kabuto's life force?

 

[KidGamer65]

Kabuto's life force?

No proof it makes it stronger. Nothing shown even begins to imply that.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

Wait, one of tobirama grabbed the truth ball that cut off BM Minato's arm

God level durability tobirama confirm?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

No proof it makes it stronger. Nothing shown even begins to imply that.

Um yes it does. The environment is supported by a person's life force, who is in a empowered state human when they learn to draw natural energy inside them.

Nothing implies that the technique is a much weaker form of controlling something with chakra manipulation. Thats a ridiculous notion. And theres no way to keep dragging this conversion.

 

[KidGamer65]

Um yes it does. The environment is supported by a person's life force, who is in a empowered state human when they learn to draw natural energy inside them.

They are in an empowered state because their chakra is empowered. Nothing to do with life force, which is how Muki Tensei controls something.

Nothing implies that the technique is a much weaker form of controlling something with chakra manipulation. Thats a ridiculous notion. And theres no way to keep dragging this conversion.

What's ridiculous is you not bringing any real evidence to support your claim. Kabuto stated that it's

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from controlling something with chakra. Please bring evidence that his statement implies that it's stronger. Muki Tensei's feats and workings don't give any kind of implication that the things being controlled are stronger than they were before.

This conversion is only being dragged out because you are being stubborn. You have no evidence to the contrary, so why are you debating against it?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

They are in an empowered state because their chakra is empowered. Nothing to do with life force, which is how Muki Tensei controls something.

How can you take life force and chakra as they can't be in context together? When manga shows time and time again (Orochimaru, Hashirama, Kurama) that they make a difference? Natural energy is what is mix with Physical energy (life force) and your spiritual energy, ONLY to NATURALLY empower chakra, which you need physical and spiritual energy to tap into it.

This conversion is only being dragged out because you are being stubborn. You have no evidence to the contrary, so why are you debating against it?

In what feats is Doton superior to Muki Tensei?

Im trying to break this as simple as I can as there is no way you can attempt to say something you implying but Im somehow being stubborn about it.

 

[KidGamer65]

How can you take life force and chakra as they can't be in context together?

Because they are not the same.

When manga shows time and time again (Orochimaru, Hashirama, Kurama) that they make a difference?

Never said life force isn't relevant to other things...key words: Other. Things. These 3 show no kind of evidence that'd lead me to b

Natural energy is what is mix with Physical energy (life force) and your spiritual energy,

Uh, wrong.

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Life force and Physical Energy are NOT the same. Manga clearly differentiates.

ONLY to NATURALLY empower chakra, which you need physical and spiritual energy to tap into it.

Yup. Spiritual+Physical+Nature Energy=Senjutsu Chakra. Not relevant though since physical energy is not life force, and Muki Tensei doesn't control objects with chakra.

In what feats is Doton superior to Muki Tensei?

Not only are broad comparisons like that irrelevant and flawed, I never mentioned Doton, so I have no reason to prove Doton>Muki Tensei. Some Doton are stronger, others are weaker. All I said was, Muki Tensei has no feats, or statement, that'd prove, or even imply, that the things it controls get any kind of strength enhancement.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Because they are not the same.

Yes it is. One needs the other in order to mold and function.

Never said life force isn't relevant to other things...key words: Other. Things. These 3 show no kind of evidence that'd lead me to b

Hashirama DNA gives physical boost to someones body, thats inferior to him in that category. Kurama chakra reacts to plant life and boost someones ability 3 times their original. Orochimaru's reacts to Kabuto's body making him superior to when he was in base[

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].

Uh, wrong.

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Life force and Physical Energy are NOT the same. Manga clearly differentiates.

Lol you simply can't have one of the same, over another. Gotta think of these things before finding these scans. How about viz with better translation:

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Yup. Spiritual+Physical+Nature Energy=Senjutsu Chakra. Not relevant though since physical energy is not life force, and Muki Tensei doesn't control objects with chakra.

Got it all mixed up

Not only are broad comparisons like that irrelevant and flawed, I never mentioned Doton, so I have no reason to prove Doton>Muki Tensei. Some Doton are stronger, others are weaker. All I said was, Muki Tensei has no feats, or statement, that'd prove, or even imply, that the things it controls get any kind of strength enhancement.

Im am using it as an example. Doton is created by controlling the earth it is very similar to Muki Tensei that controls earth/rocks too.

Your making it seem adding life force doesnt enhance anything which is ridiculous statement to make and makes it no better then how to make ninjutsu.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yes it is. One needs the other in order to mold and function.

Except it doesn't, that's Physical Energy.

Hashirama DNA gives physical boost to someones body, thats inferior to him in that category.

Yeah, Hashirama's chakra gives a physical boost to someone's body. Hashirama's life force also increases the person's life force. Has nothing to do with Muki Tensei or the things controlling it. Life force doesn't make users of Hashirama's cells stronger.

Kurama chakra reacts to plant life and boost someones ability 3 times their original.

Because Kurama's Chakra is Yang Release, which gives life. Has nothing to do with life force making anything stronger.

Orochimaru's reacts to Kabuto's body making him superior to when he was in base[

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].

He only said the life force was incredible. More life force=/=More powerful. Orochimaru's chakra is what made him stronger than he was in base. Hell, at that point in time he hadn't even implied that he was actually stronger.

Lol you simply can't have one of the same, over another. Gotta think of these things before finding these scans. How about viz with better translation:

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If only VIZ actually stated that Life Force=Physical Energy. Lol, once again, you have literally nothing proving your point. Just baseless assumptions. He said that Asura got Hagoromo's body, his stamina and his physical energy. No mention of life force. The fact that stamina was put there instead of life force means that the two are interchangeable in this context. Either way, still shows that physical energy=/=Life force.

Got it all mixed up

Nope. Nothing in the manga states physical energy=life force. Nothing at all.

Im am using it as an example. Doton is created by controlling the earth it is very similar to Muki Tensei that controls earth/rocks too.

Well stop, because it's not valid. Some Doton being inferior to the things controlled by Muki Tensei=/=Things controlled by Muki Tensei being enhanced in power.

Your making it seem adding life force doesnt enhance anything which is ridiculous statement to make and makes it no better then how to make ninjutsu.

I'm still waiting for some evidence and not your assumptions. You stating that it's a ridiculous statement to make, isn't a counter argument. Sorry pal.

 

[Apêx1]

Physical energy is for moulding ninjutsu, you don't mould ninjutsu with your life force. It's practically stamina as KG is saying.

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[Brother Numpsay]

Physical energy is for moulding ninjutsu, you don't mould ninjutsu with your life force. It's practically stamina as is saying.

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Please Apex, do not fall into this category he is. Theres no such thing as physical energy and life force being different! It means the same thing literally. That like arguing against thesaurus. They both mean a concept of energy and have the same concept of energy produce.

 

[Apêx1]

Please Apex, do not fall into this category he is. Theres no such thing as physical energy and life force being different! It means the same thing literally. That like arguing against thesaurus. They both mean a concept of energy and have the same concept of energy produce.

Look again.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Physical energies which are combined with spiritual energies mould chakra. And btw, vitality is basically life force; synonymously.

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, so there's no evidence for your stance and tonnes of evidence for mine.