[VS] (SM Jiraiya) Izuna Kakashi Senju vs (SM Naruto)pateuvasiliu Debate

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

I will reply tomorrow as I am quite busy at the moment.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

The elementary balance applies to jutus of the same rank. An S katon beats an S fuuton, but jiraiya lacks a rank S katon.



As do Jiraiya's, unless proven otherwise.



Not much to say about this. Still, the Prison doesn't give Jiraiya any advantage. If anything, it hinders his movements. Naruto is superior to him in strength, speed and sensing.



As can Naruto. We agreed to restrict it to the toad sages for both, Bunta for Jman and the 3 boss toads for Naruto.



Naruto isn't getting hit in CQC with his sensing and superior Sage Mode, nor is he getting taken down by a rasengan. You also forget that Naruto has superior numbers, meaning Jiraiya will have a hard time attacking, since he has to defend against multiple opponents.



The databook treats their base stats. Indeed, base Jiraiya is stronger than Naruto. Sage Mode Naruto, though, has incredible feats in comparison which I have shown in my first post. He blitzed and destroyed Asura whereas Jiraiya was not able to beat it through taijutsu alone.

Using both of their fights against Pain doesn't really work as Naruto had info on Pain from Katsyuu and Jiraiya had no info and had to discover Pain's abilities in battle. Jiraiya has the advantage as he can use long range jutsu with can be effective in this battle especially as most of them are wide range techs that can cover battlefields such as Sage Art:Goemon and Fire Style:Toad Oil flame bullet:

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. For defense Jiraiya has his Needle Jizo for defense and if Naruto tries to attack him the spikes will impale him and his shuriken and kunai would be deflected by the needles. Also Jiraiya and the two elder sages can cause a distraction by letting off smoke bombs then using their frog song to paralyse Naruto then Jiraiya can finish him off with a Chou Oodama Rasengan.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

believe I only used taijutsu feats, which are unaffected by intel.

Jiraiya has the advantage as he can use long range jutsu with can be effective in this battle especially as most of them are wide range techs that can cover battlefields such as Sage Art:Goemon and Fire Style:Toad Oil flame bullet:

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.

Again, Shima has fire release and can use Toad Oil Flame Bullet in conjuction with Bunta. Goemon is a strong jutsu, but it is made of 3 simple ones which Naruto's team can make. I would dare say they can do it even better, since Shima uses Fire, Fuka Wind and Jiraiya Oil, but Naruto has 3 gigantic toads and toads are better at producing oil than humans are.

For defense Jiraiya has his Needle Jizo for defense and if Naruto tries to attack him the spikes will impale him and his shuriken and kunai would be deflected by the needles. Also Jiraiya and the two elder sages can cause a distraction by letting off smoke bombs then using their frog song to paralyse Naruto then Jiraiya can finish him off with a Chou Oodama Rasengan.

First of all, Jiraiya does not know Naruto's Sage Mode is perfect. How would he? In his whole life, he hasn't managed to perfect it. How would he expect Naruto to do it in just a few days?

Secondly, if he uses a smoke bomb, Naruto can simply sense and throw a Rasenshuriken at him. Jiraiya has no way to block it. The only thing he can do is dodge, and he isn't dodging anything if he's blind. The smoke bombs would only aid Naruto.

The frog song can be prepped by both teams, but even if somehow Naruto got under genjutsu, the toad sages can reverse summon him to them.

As far as Jiraiya's long range techniques are concerned, Naruto has 3 huge toads which wouldn't give Jiraiya time to perform them. Remember they require signs and the starting distance is a mere 20 meters, less than enough for Naruto to blitz or for the boss summons to chop Jiraiya to pieces with their weapons.

I would also like to ask the judges what their opinion is before I post further proof as to why SM Naruto takes this.

 

[Icelerate]

Nice arguments from the both of you. Even though I'm not a judge, I think Pateuvasiliu gave a better argument even though I entered with the opinion that Jiraiya would defeat Naruto. His arguments were more solid and countered more than Izuna Kakashi Senju.

 

[Edo Odin]

I would also like to ask the judges what their opinion is before I post further proof as to why SM Naruto takes this.

Well, we can't really give our opinion until the debate is over, since it'd undoubtedly result in our comments benefiting either of you in some way. Both of you should just post your arguments, and then when the debate is over, we'll tell you our opinion

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Well, we can't really give our opinion until the debate is over, since it'd undoubtedly result in our comments benefiting either of you in some way. Both of you should just post your arguments, and then when the debate is over, we'll tell you our opinion

I thought it was the judges that decided when it's over.

We can pretty much say '' But X... but Y '' in an infinite loop, because with 6 people on Naruto's team and 4 on Jiraya's, it's really hard to draw a line and say: '' It's over ''.

 

[Joki]

Nice arguments from the both of you. Even though I'm not a judge, I think Pateuvasiliu gave a better argument even though I entered with the opinion that Jiraiya would defeat Naruto. His arguments were more solid and countered more than Izuna Kakashi Senju.

Yeah this I'm not a judge, I still think Jiraiya>Naruto from the pain fight, but pateuvasiliu's arguments won imo. IKS did the best he could defending the obviously victorious supreme lord.

I like this idea of matches being moderated but more of a general thing from any members of NB who read the thread, it'd be cool to see debates enforced so when people are proven wrong they'd have to admit it. I think most members of NB are too biased to give a fair vote most of the time though. e.g. Hashirama vs 20 Nagato thread, even though I clearly won that argument, NB thinks I'm a troll and also think Nagato rape no diff so would vote against me.

And yes me clearly winning was a joke lol(even though I totally did), but my point still stands it's a good example.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Okay, I think we're done here.

11days is enough.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Bump. Judges?

 

[Unorthodox]

terrible debaters

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

terrible debaters

Get the **** out of here you little Sasuke Arse kisser.

 

[Curse Mark]

Honestly IMO pat won. You both put up very good arguments but his just seemed a little more thought out and easier to read and it seem like he countered several points several times. But congrats to who ever wins.

 

[Icelerate]

terrible debaters

It isn't as if you are any good either.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

terrible debaters

I will happily listen to any criticism you have, though it is a known fact you are a troll.

I'm still curious what your mind can spawn.