[VS] (SM Jiraiya) Izuna Kakashi Senju vs (SM Naruto)pateuvasiliu Debate

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Location: Destroyed Konoha
Knowledge:Manga
Starting Distance:20 Metres
Judges:-6 Paths-,fastrthnwind and Dkdankong
This is Invasion of Pain arc Sage Mode Naruto. Naruto has his three toad summons plus Shima and Fukasaku and Jiraiya also has Shima and Fukasaku plus Gamabunta. Three judges are needed so the first three who ask will be judges Pateuvasiliu would you like too go first?

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Actually, I would like you to go first due to the fact that I won't be able to respond until tomorrow afternoon. I am sorry to postpone, but Real Life hit mercilessly.

We also need 3 judges so I hope it's not a big issue.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Actually, I would like you to go first due to the fact that I won't be able to respond until tomorrow afternoon. I am sorry to postpone, but Real Life hit mercilessly.

We also need 3 judges so I hope it's not a big issue.

Thats alright I will find judges then start off the debate.

 

[fastrthnwind]

Ill judge this one

 

[Curse Mark]

i can judge

 

[Waltz]

I wonder whats gonna happen when they summon the same things.

 

[Edo Odin]

Yo Izuna, you didn't spell my name right :I

I wonder whats gonna happen when they summon the same things.

Lmao, interesting thought xD

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Ill judge this one

Yep

i can judge

Sure

I wonder whats gonna happen when they summon the same things.

We couldn't really decide what toads they could summon so we said that they can summon some of the same toads.
@-6 Paths- my bad I edited it.

 

[Curse Mark]

all right

 

[Waltz]

By the way...this match is kinda, well very biased on jiraiya's behalf.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

You haven't answered in PMs so I would like asking you how many bunshins Naruto has which are preparing Sage Mode. It does seem fairly imbalanced as it is, since Naruto doesn't have the amphibian technique.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

You haven't answered in PMs so I would like asking you how many bunshins Naruto has which are preparing Sage Mode. It does seem fairly imbalanced as it is, since Naruto doesn't have the amphibian technique.

Sorry I had difficutly logging in with my phone and naruto has two clones preparing sage mode.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

All right. You can start as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

All right lets begin. Jiraiya knows alot of Naruto's techniques and has counters for most of them as they spent two and a half years training together, Jiraiya knows nearly all of Naruto's arsenal while Naruto doesn't know all of Jiraiya's techs this will help Jiraiya in this battle as he starts in Sage Mode he has incredible speed as seen when he blitzed one of the paths

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, plus his strength increases as seen in that link as he was able to blind the animal path with a single kick. Jiraiya knows about Naruto's fighting style and his use of clones, he can use his Sage art:Bath of boiling oils with the assistance of ma and pa to take out the clones and while the real Naruto tries to evade it hit him with a Chou Oodama Rasengan. Also since Naruto is a close range fighter and only has one long distance attack he needs to get close to damage Jiraiya where Jiraiya can use long distance attacks such as his needles or his katons as distractions then engage Naruto in Taijutsu and can use needle jizo to block Naruto's punches and stab him with the needles. Also Jiraiya can use his Earth Release: Swamp of the Underworld, to trap Naruto and use his Katon: Dai Endan to make Naruto sink into the mud quicker. Plus Jiraiya can trap Naruto in his Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind and can close in the walls to trap Naruto then hit him with a Chou Oodama Rasengan and the Toad's mouth bind is very difficult to escape from and Amaterasu is the only technique seen to counter this jutsu. Jiraiya also can fire his Toad oil bullet at Naruto making him sticky and it will prevent him from moving then Fire Release: Flame Bullet or Fire Release: Big Flame Bullet to envelope Naruto in flames.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Will give an indepth reply tomorrow.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Alright, down to business.

Jiraiya in this battle as he starts in Sage Mode he has incredible speed as seen when he blitzed one of the paths

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, plus his strength increases as seen in that link as he was able to blind the animal path with a single kick.

Jiraiya's speed is impressive all right, but Naruto's Sage Mode is not only complete/perfect, he absolutely obliterated Asura Path with a single blow ( not to mention blitzed it ), whereas Jiraiya's attacks were blocked.

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In addition, Naruto, via his superior Sage Mode, has gained extraordinary sensor abilities, clearly shown by how he was able to tell that Kakashi was not in the village. ( or well, dead )

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Thus, Jiraiya managing to take Naruto by surprise via taijutsu or close range battle is almost impossible.

Naruto's strength in Sage Mode has also reached colossal values, seeing as how he was able to pick up Pain's Rhino and throw it dozens of meters into the air.

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To further prove that Naruto is superior in close combat, he doesn't even have to hit Jiraiya. Even if somehow he would not be able to defeat Jiraiya in regular close quarters combat, Naruto has access to Frog Kata, which gives him a clear edge.

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These points were brought with the purpose of showing that Naruto has superiority in close combat. That means Jiraiya will be forced into long range mode, losing access to techniques like Chou Odama Rasengan.

Jiraiya knows alot of Naruto's techniques and has counters for most of them as they spent two and a half years training together, Jiraiya knows nearly all of Naruto's arsenal while Naruto doesn't know all of Jiraiya's techs

Jiraiya knows about Naruto's fighting style and his use of clones

Ah, but I am inclined to disagree. Jiraiya knows -nothing- about Sage Mode Naruto. He never saw him fighting. He cannot know Naruto mastered Sage Mode, he cannot know about Rasenshuriken - nor would he expect Naruto to be able to -throw- it - since not even Fukasaku knew of it.

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Furthermore, not only does Jiraiya -not- know that FRS expands into a big area of effect jutsu, the chances of him dodging are extremely small. Pain's paths barely managed to, but what you have to keep in mind is that our starting distance is 20 meters, whereas Naruto v Pain's distance was greater. I mean, FRS even has a wider radius than 20.

Jiraiya will never expect Naruto to have mastered sage mode. Using his toad summons, Naruto can easily gain the visual advantage by blocking Jiraiya's vision with

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This can only work in his favor, since Naruto doesn't need vision to attack somebody. The great thing about your opponent being blind and 1v1 scenarios is that you don't really have to be careful about what happens to you. Having no knowledge of FRS, Jiraiya would never expect a SM naruto to snipe him with a Rasenshuriken while they are engulfed by smoke.

Naruto has also shown the ability to perform a double Rasengan in Sage Mode without any help from clones, giving him an unexpected speed bonus in close quarters, which, again, Jiraiya would never expect.

It is precisely because Jman was his master that he would never expect Naruto to use all of these new techniques.

Jiraiya can use long distance attacks such as his needles

Albeit Jiraya's needles may be a tad sharper, let's not forget that SM Naruto destroyed a chakra blade with just his fist. If Pain's weapon did not manage to scratch SM Naruto, I very much doubt smaller, thinner blades can.

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Also Jiraiya can use his Earth Release: Swamp of the Underworld, to trap Naruto and use his Katon: Dai Endan to make Naruto sink into the mud quicker. Plus Jiraiya can trap Naruto in his Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind and can close in the walls to trap Naruto then hit him with a Chou Oodama Rasengan and the Toad's mouth bind is very difficult to escape from and Amaterasu is the only technique seen to counter this jutsu.

Assuming Naruto gets caught ( which I honestly doubt he will, but still ), I can think of a few modes to get out.

1. Gamabunta and the other frogs can use a large scale Suiton to cancel the swamp's quicksand effect. Water should be able to help Naruto escape.

2. The Toad Sages can stay on a frog of their own and use reverse summoning to summon Naruto out of the swamp.

I have a few other things prepared, but I will wait for your reply for now.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Alright, down to business.



Jiraiya's speed is impressive all right, but Naruto's Sage Mode is not only complete/perfect, he absolutely obliterated Asura Path with a single blow ( not to mention blitzed it ), whereas Jiraiya's attacks were blocked.

You must be registered for see images

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In addition, Naruto, via his superior Sage Mode, has gained extraordinary sensor abilities, clearly shown by how he was able to tell that Kakashi was not in the village. ( or well, dead )

You must be registered for see images

Thus, Jiraiya managing to take Naruto by surprise via taijutsu or close range battle is almost impossible.

Naruto's strength in Sage Mode has also reached colossal values, seeing as how he was able to pick up Pain's Rhino and throw it dozens of meters into the air.

You must be registered for see images

To further prove that Naruto is superior in close combat, he doesn't even have to hit Jiraiya. Even if somehow he would not be able to defeat Jiraiya in regular close quarters combat, Naruto has access to Frog Kata, which gives him a clear edge.

You must be registered for see images

These points were brought with the purpose of showing that Naruto has superiority in close combat. That means Jiraiya will be forced into long range mode, losing access to techniques like Chou Odama Rasengan.



Ah, but I am inclined to disagree. Jiraiya knows -nothing- about Sage Mode Naruto. He never saw him fighting. He cannot know Naruto mastered Sage Mode, he cannot know about Rasenshuriken - nor would he expect Naruto to be able to -throw- it - since not even Fukasaku knew of it.

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Furthermore, not only does Jiraiya -not- know that FRS expands into a big area of effect jutsu, the chances of him dodging are extremely small. Pain's paths barely managed to, but what you have to keep in mind is that our starting distance is 20 meters, whereas Naruto v Pain's distance was greater. I mean, FRS even has a wider radius than 20.

Jiraiya will never expect Naruto to have mastered sage mode. Using his toad summons, Naruto can easily gain the visual advantage by blocking Jiraiya's vision with

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

This can only work in his favor, since Naruto doesn't need vision to attack somebody. The great thing about your opponent being blind and 1v1 scenarios is that you don't really have to be careful about what happens to you. Having no knowledge of FRS, Jiraiya would never expect a SM naruto to snipe him with a Rasenshuriken while they are engulfed by smoke.

Naruto has also shown the ability to perform a double Rasengan in Sage Mode without any help from clones, giving him an unexpected speed bonus in close quarters, which, again, Jiraiya would never expect.

It is precisely because Jman was his master that he would never expect Naruto to use all of these new techniques.



Albeit Jiraya's needles may be a tad sharper, let's not forget that SM Naruto destroyed a chakra blade with just his fist. If Pain's weapon did not manage to scratch SM Naruto, I very much doubt smaller, thinner blades can.

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Assuming Naruto gets caught ( which I honestly doubt he will, but still ), I can think of a few modes to get out.

1. Gamabunta and the other frogs can use a large scale Suiton to cancel the swamp's quicksand effect. Water should be able to help Naruto escape.

2. The Toad Sages can stay on a frog of their own and use reverse summoning to summon Naruto out of the swamp.

I have a few other things prepared, but I will wait for your reply for now.

Jiraiya can use his Wild Lion's Mane Technique to surprise Naruto if he gets to close too him and if the hair grabs him he can pull him apart like he done to Pain's Crab summon, it won't be easy for Naruto to break out of its grasp as it is as hard as steel wire. Also Jiraiya can use his Barrier: Canopy Method Formation to sense Naruto if he uses any smoke bombs to try hide his location then fire a Sage art:Bath of boiling oils with the assistance of the toad sages. Also Jiraiya can summon Gamabunta and the two can use their Fire Release:Toad Oil Flame Bullet to cover the field and this is the effect it had while Jiraiya was drugged:

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and since this Jiraiya is at 100 per cent imagine the damage that could cause it could also end the fight as it has a large width and almost covered the entire battlefield and if that hit Naruto that is a KO. Plus Naruto has no counter for Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind, and once Naruto is stuck this gives Jiraiya and opening to use his Chou Oodama Rasengan to finish this fight. Also Jiraiya can fire his Sage Art: Hair Needle Senbon, at Naruto to catch him off guard then while he tries to dodge he can kick Naruto in his eyes like this:

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, to blind or even mess up Naruto's vision. Plus if Jiraiya captures Naruto in his Barrier: Toad Gourd Prison all he has to do is rasengan Naruto into the lake of acid and it is over. Jiraiya doesn't need to engage Naruto in close combat as he can send a clone as a decoy to take Naruto on while Ma and Pa prep up their frog song, then while Naruto is hit by the frog song Jiraiya can then attack him with a Toad Oil Bullet to make Naruto sticky then fire a Fire Release:Big Flame Bullet to cover Naruto in flames. Plus Jiraiya's Barrier:Canopy method Formation would alert him about the FRS and he can use a clone as a replacement to take the hit. Or use his Summoning: Food Cart Destroyer Technique, to make his toad squash Naruto.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Jiraiya can use his Wild Lion's Mane Technique to surprise Naruto if he gets to close too him

As stated before, Naruto has an easy way out of a strangling technique. Reverse summoning can get him out of the toad's mouth, stomach, the swamp or any other thing.

It worked on a huge radius ( Konoha - Toad Mountain ) so getting him out of a swamp or hair cage will be easy.

Additionally, Kage Bunshins should also work since Jiraiya has no way of telling which is real.

Also Jiraiya can use his Barrier: Canopy Method Formation to sense Naruto if he uses any smoke bombs to try hide his location then fire a Sage art:Bath of boiling oils with the assistance of the toad sages.

By the time Jiraiya does that a Rasenshuriken is already flying towards him. Due to the small range has has small chances of doding.

lso Jiraiya can summon Gamabunta and the two can use their Fire Release:Toad Oil Flame Bullet to cover the field and this is the effect it had while Jiraiya was drugged:

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and since this Jiraiya is at 100 per cent imagine the damage that could cause it could also end the fight as it has a large width and almost covered the entire battlefield and if that hit Naruto that is a KO.

The toad sages have wind and fire release. Gamabunta can supply the oil and they can use a variant of

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.

The technique Jiraiya makes with Gamabunta should be inferior to the one Shima, Fuka and Gamabunta can use due to Fukasaku also adding wind release to the mix.

Plus Naruto has no counter for Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind

Reverse summoning.

Also, the technique requires 8 hand seals which are a lot. Naruto can easily use FRS or blitz him in these 8 seconds.

while he tries to dodge he can kick Naruto in his eyes like this:

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, to blind or even mess up Naruto's vision.

Naruto has superior speed, strength and sensing. Jman isn't beating him in taijutsu.

Also, don't forget Naruto has 3 giant toads, whereas Jiraiya has one. They will easily overrun Bunta while Jman is busy with Naruto.

Jiraiya doesn't need to engage Naruto in close combat as he can send a clone as a decoy to take Naruto on while Ma and Pa prep up their frog song

I would kindly ask for a scan showing Jiraiya using or implying he can use clones.

Naruto's toad sages can also use the genjutsu.

Plus Jiraiya's Barrier:Canopy method Formation would alert him about the FRS and he can use a clone as a replacement to take the hit. Or use his Summoning: Food Cart Destroyer Technique, to make his toad squash Naruto.

the distance is 20m. Jman isn't dodging a blind FRS from that range.

Naruto can use Food Cart Destroyer, too.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

As stated before, Naruto has an easy way out of a strangling technique. Reverse summoning can get him out of the toad's mouth, stomach, the swamp or any other thing.

It worked on a huge radius ( Konoha - Toad Mountain ) so getting him out of a swamp or hair cage will be easy.

Additionally, Kage Bunshins should also work since Jiraiya has no way of telling which is real.



By the time Jiraiya does that a Rasenshuriken is already flying towards him. Due to the small range has has small chances of doding.



The toad sages have wind and fire release. Gamabunta can supply the oil and they can use a variant of

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.

The technique Jiraiya makes with Gamabunta should be inferior to the one Shima, Fuka and Gamabunta can use due to Fukasaku also adding wind release to the mix.



Reverse summoning.

Also, the technique requires 8 hand seals which are a lot. Naruto can easily use FRS or blitz him in these 8 seconds.



Naruto has superior speed, strength and sensing. Jman isn't beating him in taijutsu.

Also, don't forget Naruto has 3 giant toads, whereas Jiraiya has one. They will easily overrun Bunta while Jman is busy with Naruto.



I would kindly ask for a scan showing Jiraiya using or implying he can use clones.

Naruto's toad sages can also use the genjutsu.



the distance is 20m. Jman isn't dodging a blind FRS from that range.

Naruto can use Food Cart Destroyer, too.

Jiraiya using the shadow clone jutsu:

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, he also used it in his fight against pain as a decoy to allow him to enter sage mode but I can't find the chapter. Naruto's kage bushins(This is pain arc sm Naruto) aren't on the level; of his current sage mode clones and disappear after getting hit, plus Shima and Fukasaku can sense Naruto or Jiraiya can use his Barrier:Canopy Method Formation to sense Naruto. Also if Naruto throws a FRS, Jiraiya can use his Fire Release: Big Flame Bullet or him and the toad sages use Sage art:Bath of boiling oils as Katon>Fuuton as air feeds the flames making the Katon even stronger. Also Jiraiya can trap Naruto in his Barrier: Toad Gourd Prison cutting him off from Fukasaku and Shima and Rasengan him into the gastric acid. Or Jiraiya could just use his long range moves such as Fire Release:Flame Bullet then while Naruto is dodging fire his Sage Art: Hair Needle Senbon which would impale Naruto. You are also forgetting Jiraiya can summon other toads not just Gamabunta, he can summon Gama(the toad he used to block Kisame's attack protecting Naruto in part I) and other toads to assist him in this battle. Jiraiya can also use another diversion such as firing a Katon then as Naruto is about to dodge hit him with a Chou Oodama Rasengan to wrap it up. Also you said Naruto has superior strength compared to Jiraiya the databook disagrees as Jiraiya has a 4.5 in strength and Naruto has a 3.5 also you said Naruto has better speed than Jiraiya in Sage Mode the databook disagrees with you again as Jiraiya has a 4.5 speed while Naruto has 3.5 in speed and you said Naruto has superior Taijutsu to Jiraiya the databook disagrees as Jiraiya has a 4.5 and Naruto has a 3.5, and plus Jiraiya can turn his hands and feet into those of frogs so as to aid in manoeuvrability and help his Taijutsu.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Also if Naruto throws a FRS, Jiraiya can use his Fire Release: Big Flame Bullet or him and the toad sages use Sage art:Bath of boiling oils as Katon>Fuuton as air feeds the flames making the Katon even stronger.

The elementary balance applies to jutus of the same rank. An S katon beats an S fuuton, but jiraiya lacks a rank S katon.

of his current sage mode clones and disappear after getting hit

As do Jiraiya's, unless proven otherwise.

Also Jiraiya can trap Naruto in his Barrier: Toad Gourd Prison cutting him off from Fukasaku and Shima and Rasengan him into the gastric acid.

Not much to say about this. Still, the Prison doesn't give Jiraiya any advantage. If anything, it hinders his movements. Naruto is superior to him in strength, speed and sensing.

ou are also forgetting Jiraiya can summon other toads not just Gamabunta, he can summon Gama(the toad he used to block Kisame's attack protecting Naruto in part I) and other toads to assist him in this battle.

As can Naruto. We agreed to restrict it to the toad sages for both, Bunta for Jman and the 3 boss toads for Naruto.

about to dodge hit him with a Chou Oodama Rasengan to wrap it up.

Naruto isn't getting hit in CQC with his sensing and superior Sage Mode, nor is he getting taken down by a rasengan. You also forget that Naruto has superior numbers, meaning Jiraiya will have a hard time attacking, since he has to defend against multiple opponents.

Also you said Naruto has superior strength compared to Jiraiya the databook disagrees as Jiraiya has a 4.5 in strength and Naruto has a 3.5 also you said Naruto has better speed than Jiraiya in Sage Mode the databook disagrees with you again as Jiraiya has a 4.5 speed while Naruto has 3.5 in speed and you said Naruto has superior Taijutsu to Jiraiya the databook disagrees as Jiraiya has a 4.5 and Naruto has a 3.5, and plus Jiraiya can turn his hands and feet into those of frogs so as to aid in manoeuvrability and help his Taijutsu.

The databook treats their base stats. Indeed, base Jiraiya is stronger than Naruto. Sage Mode Naruto, though, has incredible feats in comparison which I have shown in my first post. He blitzed and destroyed Asura whereas Jiraiya was not able to beat it through taijutsu alone.