**Sigh** Are we really that slow to say 8 gate is a Tie? Really? lmmfao

[Forbidden Technique]

Um no nothing suggests that internal time = real time anywhere. People doing things outside of internal time doesn't mean equal time has passed in the two dimensions. Only that time has passed in the two dimensions.

You're right that some battling has happened in between, still given the speed of the fighters we can't say much has happened and since they're both harping on about evening elephant, it seems as though little time has passed.

Chouji ate the red pill and survived. That's the difference. There was a possibility of his survival. Eating the red pill isn't guaranteed death as opposed to the 8th gate.

Another question, when did Jiraiya lose, the first time he died or the second?

And my whole point regarding c0 defeats the idea of temporality of death relating to winner.

I'm going out tonight, so I'm making this quick and will reply tomorrow.

Did you read the chapters..? Everything that happened internally was simultaneously happening in the real world to Naruto. Bee is even interfering from the real world as an outsider to Naruto's internal battle. Where are you concluding that it isn't?

As a matter in fact, we can say much has happened between this time. Do you know how much damage it took for Gai to even chip Madara's hand band..? [

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] Gai even proceeded to knock Madara around even more and nothing at all changed to his headband which was the last time we seen them before the fight went off panel [

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]. Then seconds later [as you claim] Gai miraculously manages to destroy like half of it? [

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] when it took him so long just to chip it in the first place...? Not very likely. I think it's best for you to just agree with me here.

My point still stands. Chouji ate the red pill fully knowing and acknowledging the consquences [

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] and expected to die, there was no possibility of surviving in his mind. He in fact thought he was going to die and still valued it as a win, regardless if he did or not.

You're going to have to elaborate on the bold, as I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.

 

[KingHashirama]

The fact that the opponent MADE gai go into 8th gate and hence he MADE Gai kill himself.. what part of this are you people not capable of understanding?


The things you mentioned in your definition aren't even applicable in fighting.

And no 8th gate is not a transformation similar to the Super Sayains.. that is f*cking dumb.. why would you even say that?

And fighting to death =/= sports. Big difference. Anyone who plays sports is able to acknowledge this. Hell everyone who is in UFC/MMA/Boxing probably acknowledges this. Because of the fact, Fight to a death isn't a game..


There is a reason why 8th Gate is a death move.. because its purpose is to stop the enemy by taking your own life. Its purpose isn't to WIN..

No, I don't actually, because nothing suggests or support your claim, which is proabably why you had to take it all the way to left field with bringing up Tsukiyomi. If you read from

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page and onward for a chapter or two, you'll realize that Bee is interfering with the internal battle that is going on within Naruto from the outside world. Not only that, but everything that happens to Naruto internally happens in the outside world as well [

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]-[

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]. And if you want to go as far as stating that Narutos internal battle with Kurama isn't the same as his conversation with Rikudo Sennin, then [

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]... even his conversation with his mother equates to real world time. This is nothing like Itachi's tsukiyomi.

@ Bold, you must be joking. Just by taking a look at both scans and comparing the two indicate that there was some crazy off panel fighting.



Whatever you say. Chouji ate the red pill which shares the same consequences as the 8th Gate, yet it was still valued as a win [

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]. The last man standing is the victor. Same thing applies

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with Neji, who realistaclly should of and would of died if it wasn't for someone saving him later on. Yet the manga still gave the victory to Neji.

THe mere fact they didn't pull a SUICIDE Move.. a technique that already makes sure they die is the reason why they were counted as wins.

With the red pills, there was a CHANCE that choji might be dead.. With Neji there was a CHANCE that he might be dead. However, with Gai he is already dead..... NO BODY CAN STOP HIM FROM DYING.. that is the big difference.

suicide techs =/= fighting straight up and being on the brink of death.

Guaranteed death =/= chance of death.

 

[Conspirator.]

The fact that the opponent MADE gai go into 8th gate and hence he MADE Gai kill himself.. what part of this are you people not capable of understanding?


The things you mentioned in your definition aren't even applicable in fighting.

And no 8th gate is not a transformation similar to the Super Sayains.. that is f*cking dumb.. why would you even say that?

And fighting to death =/= sports. Big difference. Anyone who plays sports is able to acknowledge this. Hell everyone who is in UFC/MMA/Boxing probably acknowledges this. Because of the fact, Fight to a death isn't a game..


There is a reason why 8th Gate is a death move.. because its purpose is to stop the enemy by taking your own life. Its purpose isn't to WIN..


THe mere fact they didn't pull a SUICIDE Move.. a technique that already makes sure they die is the reason why they were counted as wins.

With the red pills, there was a CHANCE that choji might be dead.. With Neji there was a CHANCE that he might be dead. However, with Gai he is already dead..... NO BODY CAN STOP HIM FROM DYING.. that is the big difference.

suicide techs =/= fighting straight up and being on the brink of death.

Guaranteed death =/= chance of death.

I don't always agree with you, but that post hit the nail on the head. +rep

 

[Airbear]

C4 lands and hits opponent killing him/her. Seconds later deidara dies from explosion. Deidara won because he didn't die first right?
All depends on goal and technicality. If not deidara with killing intent should be top ten.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

it would count as a tie if it where just guy vs madara, but its not. its guy, kakashi, minato, lee and gaara vs madara.

if both people die, it doesnt realy matter who killed who and who got killed by themselves.

if only 1 person on each side die, but one side has more people, they win.

 

[Icelerate]

Too long to read everything in this thread so I'll just give my opinion. Victory is defined depending on the objective. In most VS threads, the objective is to kill the opponent and when the opponent dies, the battle ends and the one who remains alive is the victor.

However when we look at the situation in the real world, such as a war. Military objectives differ and they aren't necessarily white and black.

For example, if Gai and Minato were at war with each other and were poised to secure a military base. Gai would have no choice but to go eight gates to challenge Minato's control over the area. Minato would then be forced to retreat from that area or face death, giving Gai military control over it. Technically since Minato lost ground, he lost the battle between him and Gai due to BFR. None of that really matter though since he won the war due to retaking the military base and no longer has to deal with Gai any longer.

Gai can beat his opponents with 8 gates, similarly, Danzo can beat his opponents with KA but that doesn't mean Danzo and Gai should be ranked above everyone else. Overall, you have to look at how strong the manga has portrayed these characters, in general, to be.

Not to mention it is out of character for Gai to use the eight gates and he can easily be killed before he decides to use the eighth gate.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Too long to read everything in this thread so I'll just give my opinion. Victory is defined depending on the objective. In most VS threads, the objective is to kill the opponent and when the opponent dies, the battle ends and the one who remains alive is the victor.

However when we look at the situation in the real world, such as a war. Military objectives differ and they aren't necessarily white and black.

For example, if Gai and Minato were at war with each other and were poised to secure a military base. Gai would have no choice but to go eight gates to challenge Minato's control over the area. Minato would then be forced to retreat from that area or face death, giving Gai military control over it. Technically since Minato lost ground, he lost the battle between him and Gai due to BFR but he won the war, because in the end, he managed to retake the area and no longer has to deal with Gai any longer.

Gai can beat his opponents with 8 gates, similarly, Danzo can beat his opponents with KA but that doesn't mean Danzo and Gai should be ranked above everyone else. Overall, you have to look at how strong the manga has portrayed these characters, in general, to be.

Not to mention it is out of character for Gai to use the eight gates and he can easily be killed before he decides to use the eighth gate.

V/S threads are way different from real life situations. Zoom doesn't beat the justice league because he wants the justice league to look god. In 1 on 1 fight Zoom destroys the justice league in zero second (as he can stop the time around him)

In comic book, spider man can punch silver surfer because spidey is a main hero, and thats the reality. When we pit silver surfer against spidey in a 1 on 1 battle, the result is obvious. The intent, motivation, objectives are applicable to real life only, in V/S threads we only take feats into account. plot, character and writer induced stupidity are ignored.

Yes, might gai can be killed before he enters eight gates. Thats not the point of this thread. Whether Might Gai beating a character before dying himself counts as a win or not. In V/S threads, yes it counts as a win. Real life scenery is inapplicable here

 

[BenjerminGaye]

The double standards is too real.

 

[Sjhsgjhsgjshjshjsh]

What if the guy with suicidal tech Defeated his enemy, but did not kill him , and then he died ?

Spoiler

Kinda like Netreo vs the king in HxH ?


[/SPOILERw

 

[BenjerminGaye]

What if the guy with suicidal tech Defeated his enemy, but did not kill him , and then he died ?

Spoiler

Kinda like Netreo vs the king in HxH ?


[/SPOILERw

Spoiler

Intent plays a role in your situation.

 

[A v i]

What if the guy with suicidal tech Defeated his enemy, but did not kill him , and then he died ?

Spoiler

Kinda like Netreo vs the king in HxH ?

Technically old man is the winner of that battle as he managed to accomplish what he actually wanted to.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

I feel that it wouldn't be quite right to call it a tie or draw when Gai wins a fight via the 8th Gate, but you'd be cheesing it too much to call it a win.​

​

 

[Brother Numpsay]

So it's not even like it's a quick 1-2-3 he busts his final nut and dies.

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[KingHashirama]

PS: As many others have said, the fights in Naruto are about objective.. especially the Neji/Choji fights. Its one sided victory.

For example, in the manga Kingdom, General houken lost to General Ouki in the fight, but everyone says in the manga that Riboku and Houken beat/slayed General Ouki.. while the truth is Riboku didn't even fight Ouki.. and Houken couldn't even kill Ouki and nearly got himself killed.

But doesn't matter about that, in the end they Ouki was slayen by those 2 generals why? Because they count the objective of the fight. Which was to beat each other's armies and defend the area. Ouki failed and died in the process due to various reasons , and was said to be slayen. However, at the same time many state that Houken couldn't beat Ouki.. but this is a reference to their fight to death.

 

[Inert Brian]

People are still actually arguing this *facepalm*.

If Gai didn't have to die he would have used the 7th gate to defeat Madara. But because Madara is so strong, he has to suicide to have a chance of killing him.

Hiruzen had to use RDS to seal Orochimaru, and the edo hokages. There was no alternative because he couldn't seal them otherwise or defeat Orochimaru.

Deidara had to use C0 to kill Hebi Sasuke. There was no alternative because he was too strong.

Choji had to use the red pill to kill Jirobo. There was no alternative because he was too strong.

Neji took the hit from Kidomaru to expose his weak point and take Kidomaru down with him because otherwise Neji would have lost.

Gai has to use 8 gates to kill Madara. There is no alternative because he's too strong.

^ See this bold? They all have something in common: Having to suicide to kill an opponent is not a win because they have to die to take them down

Choji and Neji only lived because others came to their aid, w/o medical attention both of them would have ended up dead too.

 

[Narutimate Storm]

Eight Gates is a draw in my opinion. Not sure how people see it differently.

 

[Inert Brian]

Eight Gates is a draw in my opinion. Not sure how people see it differently.

It's called Gai wanking my friend :l

 

[elsepa]

The "draw" thing was made up by fanboys to say Gai couldn't beat their fav , let them dream

 

[Narutimate Storm]

The "draw" thing was made up by fanboys to say Gai couldn't beat their fav , let them dream

But how is killing yourself because you know you do not have the power to kill your opponent the legit way not a draw?

 

[Inert Brian]

But how is killing yourself because you know you do not have the power to kill your opponent the legit way not a draw?

^ Still waiting for a rebuttle to this.