I'd like to note that I am not done writing this theory, and that this thread is more to spark discussions regarding the likelihood that we have been wrong regarding the Shinju's origin. Naruto ended, we were left with a lot of questions and we've tried to come up with answers ever since. One of the questions we've all asked us, is just what was the goal of Kaguya? Another is regarding Momoshiki and Kinshiki, why did they not arrive earlier? Where are they coming from? What is the Shinju really? Questions like this has been left up to speculation by the community for over a year now, so I'll try to bring a 'new' view to it. Before we generally viewed the Shinju as the 'start' of everything, as the source of everything. What if that guess was, at its core, wrong? That alone would ruin every (or at least a wast majority) of theories out there. Humans are creature of pride, it is not new for us to believe ourselves to be correct and ignore the possibility of being wrong. So now I will present a theory where the 'Shinju' is no the start, but merely a branch, a "seed" of a far greater scheme. If you want to read this "theory" in all its "glory" then I highly suggest that you do so in the original
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.Where did the Shinju come from? The Shinju originated from the Fruit of the Shinju (‘Fruit’ for short). This ‘Fruit’ acts as a form of seed for a new tree. The Shinju that appeared long before the Time of the Rikudou prior to the original defeat of The Juubi was not the original Shinju. The exact origin of the original Shinju is still unknown, the earliest origin that we know of is from Momoshiki and Kinshiki’s ‘Earth’ (‘Earth 2’ for short). We can conclude that there are several Shinju’s in existence, at least at one point in time. What is the objective of a ‘Shinju’? The Shinju is a plant that needs nutrition, it gets this from the planet it is hosted on. Through the host, the ‘Shinju’ absorbs natural energy (also known as Senjutsu) and converts it into chakra (a perfect balance between Yin and Yang energy). This “new” energy can be absorbed and used by an individual through consuming the ‘Fruit’ that the ‘Shinju’ gives birth to each millennium. It is also possible that the ‘Shinju’ is what creates life on a planet, so that it can absorb more energy and sustain itself over a longer period of time. It is the sole purpose of the ‘Shinju’ to absorb Natural Energy and convert it to usable chakra that can be absorbed. Kaguya’s Role & Choice Kaguya either personally planted to seed that would become the ‘Shinju’ or her predecessor did this task. Kaguya came from the homeplant of her clan (the Ōtsutsuki clan) in order to harvest the energy that the ‘Shinju’ had compiled over a millennium. Though for unknown reasons she decided to keep this energy for herself and ate the ‘Fruit’ from the tree. Knowing that she had betrayed her own people and couldn’t return to her home planet, she stayed and ruled over the world with her new-found power. After a few years she gained children herself, with an unknown spouse. Fight between mother and child We still don’t know the exact reason why Kaguya believed that all chakra belong to her and why she insisted on taking it back from her own children after realizing that they had inherited some of from her. Though we can speculate on it. Speculation #1 - Kaguya tried to save her children There is the possibility that Kaguya wanted to save her children from the dangers of having chakra and as a result tried to take it back from them with force when she knew that they wouldn’t give it up willingly. The likelihood of this speculation being true is slim, very slim. Speculation #2 - Kaguya wanted to save herself Kaguya was fully aware that someone would come after her chakra and the new fruit that would blossom from the ‘Shinju’ in the form of the ‘Fruit’. To this end she devised a plan by creating an army of White Zetsu from her subjects and use them against the new ‘harvester’ that would arrive, Momoshiki. In order to achieve this, she needed a huge amount of chakra and people to use, and because of this she needed the chakra that was within her children and tried to take it by force. The likelihood of this speculation being true is likely, quite likely. Momoshiki’s Role Momoshiki most likely held the same position as Kaguya once did, and could be looked upon as her successor. He was given the task of “harvesting” the chakra from several ‘Shinju’s’ every millennium and bring it back to the home planet. We’ve speculated why he only appeared so long after Kaguya and not before, to that we can speculate further. Speculation #1 - Their plans changed There is no doubt that the ‘Ōtsutsuki’ clan planned to take down Kaguya as right after they had gotten words on her betrayal. They may even have been ready to launch an assault on her, but their plans got changed. Right before they got their chance to attack her, she was defeated by her own sons. As a result of this, her chakra was lost and the ‘Ōtsutsuki’ clan decided to wait until the next ‘Fruit’ to harvest its power while they harvested the remaining ‘Fruits’ from other planets. This speculation has a high chance of being accurate. Speculation #2 - Momoshiki acted alone I may be possible that like Kaguya before him, Momoshiki became power hungry and deserted from the ‘Ōtsutsuki’ clan as well and acted alone in the assault against ‘Earth’ in order to retrieve the same power that Kaguya once stole. This speculation has a 50/50 chance of being accurate. |
Shinju, Kaguya & Momoshiki — Were we wrong?
- Thread starter Clover
- Start date
There is no life into each realm of Kaguya, there is no life on the planet of Momo and Kin but there is a shinjuu in the IT shape, like if it just made the planetary jutsu IT.
What if the shinjuus can be used as tools to absorb and harvest all life energy of a planet?
They talk about rearranging the seedbed, make it beautifull, like if they are planning to create a beautifull land for the life that they are going to grow and to have another harvest after this one.
The fruit appeared in time of wars, is that a coincidence?What if the tree is able to absorb a dying human soul (spiritual) via his leaves and a bleeding human corpse via his roots (physical) to create chakra?
What if the shinjuus can be used as tools to absorb and harvest all life energy of a planet?
They talk about rearranging the seedbed, make it beautifull, like if they are planning to create a beautifull land for the life that they are going to grow and to have another harvest after this one.
The fruit appeared in time of wars, is that a coincidence?What if the tree is able to absorb a dying human soul (spiritual) via his leaves and a bleeding human corpse via his roots (physical) to create chakra?
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Seventh Sama
Active member
By theory builds on the fact that the Shinju has existed across several planets, which is the reason the planet that we see in Boruto: Naruto the Movie (that we refer to as Momoshiki's planet or 'Earth 2') is barren and dead. The Shinju has already absorbed everything and left it barren, the energy has been harvested. Momoshiki may have chosen this as a combat area, knowing that there would be no-one else there. (There is a rotting Shinju on this planet.) The Shinju didn't appear in an age of war, it was around long before the raise of humanity, and that is why no one was allowed to touch it, as the meaning behind that rule had been lost in time. (Long before the wars.)
Hence why my theory builds on a timeline that is alike this in short;
- Someone "plants" the Shinju.
- Humanity and nature is born.
- War and societies branch out among humans.
- Kaguya arrives to "harvest" the fruit but eats it herself.
- The events that we know of from Hagoromo to today.
So you think it's probably a coincidence, maybe it is, but the hypothesis is probable.
Decades are nothing compared to a millenium, so the coincidence would be shocking if the wars had probably been around for "only" decades.
I like this theory.
I like the idea that Kaguya came with the mission to harvest a fruit that is a godtree seed, but stayed on Earth (maybe because she fell in love and decided to eat the fruit to help humanity to end the wars).
I think she claims all chakra being hers because she became crazy with that amount of power, she is obsessed with chakra, like a drug addict, and she is divaguing.
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My theory about the Shinju is different. I don't think Kishi will introduce multiple Shinjus out of nowhere. Cause that in my opinion dilutes the overall Shinju theme.The "Fruit of the Shinju and the Shinju" theme can only be considered important if there is only "One Fruit" and only "One Shinju". Here is where my idea about the whole matter comes : Kishi is trying to throw us off here by Multiple Shinju references. But in reality, they all are one and the same Shinju.
This picture can give a small hint to what I am saying. This is concerned with Norse Mythology : Yggdrasil and the Nine Realms :-
As you can see the Holy Tree Yggdrasil penetrates Nine Realms/Dimensions of existence. The penetration of the tree to different realms to me seems to be Space-Time manipulation. However for a person on one of the realms, the tree will be in that realm only and he won't be able to see it go to another realm unless he has doujutsu which can penetrate those Space-Time points.
So, for an observer of that realm and for someone who fails to see the space-Time connection, he would think there are Nine different Yggdrasils/Holy Trees in each of the realms, whereas in reality they are only one Tree.
I think Kishi is applying the same concept with the Shinju. The Shinju of NV and the Shinju of Momoshinki's planet are not different Shinju's, they are just parts of a grand whole unified Shinju Tree which we have yet to see.
Concluding thoughts :-
This is where something more interesting can be assumed. The Yggdrasil is not contained in exclusively in one realm. It is spread out over Nine Realms. However over the course of the story the Parts of the Shinju in Kaguya's Six realms were absorbed and brought to one realm, The NV (It's possible that a part of that tree can get divided and sealed away).The Shinju's Fruit of NV which Kaguya ate had the power of Six parts (Seven can be assumed if NV had a Shinju pre-Kaguya, I am not sure of this) of the whole Grand Shinju only.
It's like someone is trying to bring the Shinju exclusively to one realm only. This could be a sign of ominous disaster incoming. Perhaps the Progenitor of the World "The One" might be finally revived if all the Shinju's powers were accumulated in one point, "The Fruit" ? We will have to wait and see. Heh.
Edit--------
Oh, about the parts, The Grand Shinju is clearly divided into one main body/The Trunk and Nine branches in Nine Dimensions. So, in total the Grand Shinju is divided into Ten Parts and it matches with the Juubi/Ten-Tails. Someone is trying to unify these parts at one point/one dimension so as to unleash the full power of the Grand Shinju and re-create the origin of all Existence (There was also a good reason why Juubi was called Proginator of the World).
The Fruit that Kaguya ate had Six or Seven parts of the Grand Shinju within it (I base this assumption on how the Six Realms of Kaguya are barren wastelands, that's because the Parts of the Shinju in those realms were extracted). Momoshinki had one part on his planet. This still leaves us with two or three more parts of the Grand Shinju yet to be revealed. (The Main Trunk and two more realms where it's branches lie).
This picture can give a small hint to what I am saying. This is concerned with Norse Mythology : Yggdrasil and the Nine Realms :-
You must be registered for see images
As you can see the Holy Tree Yggdrasil penetrates Nine Realms/Dimensions of existence. The penetration of the tree to different realms to me seems to be Space-Time manipulation. However for a person on one of the realms, the tree will be in that realm only and he won't be able to see it go to another realm unless he has doujutsu which can penetrate those Space-Time points.
So, for an observer of that realm and for someone who fails to see the space-Time connection, he would think there are Nine different Yggdrasils/Holy Trees in each of the realms, whereas in reality they are only one Tree.
I think Kishi is applying the same concept with the Shinju. The Shinju of NV and the Shinju of Momoshinki's planet are not different Shinju's, they are just parts of a grand whole unified Shinju Tree which we have yet to see.
Concluding thoughts :-
This is where something more interesting can be assumed. The Yggdrasil is not contained in exclusively in one realm. It is spread out over Nine Realms. However over the course of the story the Parts of the Shinju in Kaguya's Six realms were absorbed and brought to one realm, The NV (It's possible that a part of that tree can get divided and sealed away).The Shinju's Fruit of NV which Kaguya ate had the power of Six parts (Seven can be assumed if NV had a Shinju pre-Kaguya, I am not sure of this) of the whole Grand Shinju only.
It's like someone is trying to bring the Shinju exclusively to one realm only. This could be a sign of ominous disaster incoming. Perhaps the Progenitor of the World "The One" might be finally revived if all the Shinju's powers were accumulated in one point, "The Fruit" ? We will have to wait and see. Heh.
Edit--------
Oh, about the parts, The Grand Shinju is clearly divided into one main body/The Trunk and Nine branches in Nine Dimensions. So, in total the Grand Shinju is divided into Ten Parts and it matches with the Juubi/Ten-Tails. Someone is trying to unify these parts at one point/one dimension so as to unleash the full power of the Grand Shinju and re-create the origin of all Existence (There was also a good reason why Juubi was called Proginator of the World).
The Fruit that Kaguya ate had Six or Seven parts of the Grand Shinju within it (I base this assumption on how the Six Realms of Kaguya are barren wastelands, that's because the Parts of the Shinju in those realms were extracted). Momoshinki had one part on his planet. This still leaves us with two or three more parts of the Grand Shinju yet to be revealed. (The Main Trunk and two more realms where it's branches lie).
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That's something that's left to Kishi's imagination. However I think that all three of them were played and manipulated by a far Greater force "The evil greater than Kaguya" (Mentioned in Gaiden) to bring all pieces of the Shinju to one point and recreate the "Origin of the Universe".
SumnNarutoRelated
Active member
Sasuke commented that 'The Threat Greater than Kaguya' was Momoshiki and Kinshiki. He most likely assumed that they were such a great threat based on the fact that someone as strong as Kaguya was preparing an entire army to fight them. We know as a fact that Momoshiki transports to a different plant and not a dimension. We also know that accesses to the other dimensions doesn't require Rinne-Sharingan as both Obito and Sasuke has proven otherwise. That shatters your theory about different dimensions that the Shinju spreads to. It also answers your comment on the threat that was greater than Kaguya.
I think that it is rather more likely that the other places we see Kaguya transport Team 7 to is not dimensions, but rather planets that Kaguya has harvested in the past. (I cannot remember the ViZ translation referring to them as dimensions, but I may be wrong.) If that is not the case, then that may also be the end-goal of the harvesting, to create a new dimension.
Sasuke deducted that the threat was Momoshiki and Kinshiki, but he may be mistaking.
The guy that Boruto, an accademy student, killed shouldn't be that big of a threat to Kaguya.
How could white zetsu help Kaguya to defeat Momoshiki and Kinshiki?
The idea that the threat is not Momoshiki's arrival is growing.
CreativeSeun
Member
so Kaguya is from outer space, so that means Hagoromo and hamura are mixed aliens, so that means Naruto, Sasuke, the senjus, Uzumaki, and uchiha are all aliens they are not complete humans, hmm that explains a lot, all their abnormal non human behaviours
what am interested in is that, the various shinjus, do they all give the same type of powers of different kinds as they are different trees?????
what am interested in is that, the various shinjus, do they all give the same type of powers of different kinds as they are different trees?????