Seriously...Madara Breaking Edo and now Oro revived?

boshans

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It was stated that Madara was able to break free because the Edo Tensei was released by Kabuto (it needs to be released by the user in order for the person under the jutsu to possibly break free).

1st and 2nd Hokages were never released by oro, although they did have their conscious for a little. That is why Madara couldn't just release himself as soon as he was summoned, he had to wait until Kabuto released the Edo Tensei.

Although I agree on how Madara knew about this seems unreal...
Just my 2 cents

Was it stated that the only reason he broke free was because it was ending? Obviously it is weird he wouldn't break free as soon as he knew he was under Edo...maybe he didn't feel the need who knows. There's so many different translations now, I'll wait till Monday when it it released by Viz with the official english translation before I agree with that or not.
 

psukkar

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i have no problem edo madara breaking the contract with the summoner.

I always knew kabuto was talking shit when he said this jutsu hasnt got a weakness. Even tobi said it must have a weakness and he was right.

And this is a very logical weakness to such a jutsu that controls the dead makes alot of sense . shame none of us theriozed this before. dam u kishi ur too epic.


As for orocihmaru i dont understand, kishi? not so epic here.

might asweell revive jiriaya and make us see the fight jiraiya ve orocuhmaru. at least that would be nice to see.

Cant see how orocihmaru would know more than madara and tobi about so6p and hasihrama. I mean orociharu was simply studying madara and hasohram his whole life. So how can the real things have more importance than some1 merrely studying them. makes no sense to me.

I always thought thou orocihmaru was trolled by a lame ass weapon, so im happy he will get a proper send off this time at least.


Also worth noting guys the edo summoner cant aviod releasing his summons, unless u control them ur whole life and dont die u will never stop the chance from the edo tensei regaining their consciences and if they know the seals they will breal the jutsu. This jutsu logically has epic weakness and it should be like this.

in hasihrama and tobirama's case they regauined their conceince as the jutsu was being released by the thrid hokage when he was sealing them. But in that situtaion it would have made no differnce if either of them broke the jutsu while being sucked in by the death god.
 
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miZu31

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Totaly agree with this!!! Brngn bak madara was super-badd!!! Finally sum fun was gna start but then oro?? Dumb hez so useless
 

Gooner4life

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Madara staying was stupid, and I hate the term 'plot no jutsu' but if there is situation made for that term, this would be it. Madara knew the secret weakness to a forbidden technique that would have been barely used made by his rivals that never truly trusted him, as shown by later actions. This is absolute nonsense. Madara copying the seals with his sharingan and knowing to use them to escape from the edo tensei when he is an edo are two different things, and the latter doesn't make sense. Don't get me wrong I wanted him to stay because he seems like the only real threat in this war but he should have given him some eye technique that allows him to do it, that would at least make sense. The only way this can be justified is for Kishi to say that this has happened before in front of Madara, even though that is a bit flaky too.

Oro's return makes a bit more sense and although I like him and he is my favourite villain, it just seems slightly farfetched
 

Aze

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Kishi once more showed us , that Orochimaru is pure genius.

Sasuke needs Oros help for something.


Atm , Oro is Temporary member of team Taka , they are heading somewhere.
 

psukkar

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Madara staying was stupid, and I hate the term 'plot no jutsu' but if there is situation made for that term, this would be it. Madara knew the secret weakness to a forbidden technique that would have been barely used made by his rivals that never truly trusted him, as shown by later actions. This is absolute nonsense. Madara copying the seals with his sharingan and knowing to use them to escape from the edo tensei when he is an edo are two different things, and the latter doesn't make sense. Don't get me wrong I wanted him to stay because he seems like the only real threat in this war but he should have given him some eye technique that allows him to do it, that would at least make sense. The only way this can be justified is for Kishi to say that this has happened before in front of Madara, even though that is a bit flaky too.

Oro's return makes a bit more sense and although I like him and he is my favourite villain, it just seems slightly farfetched

how the hell is it bertter to bring back orocihmaur over keeping madara?

did u know madara fought hasihrama?
did u know madara knows nagato?
did u know he knows about tobi?
did u know he started the series?

now orocihmaru, other than studying madara and hasihrama his whole life why would it make more sense to bring back orocihmamr over madara?
 

grenwood

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Was it stated that the only reason he broke free was because it was ending? Obviously it is weird he wouldn't break free as soon as he knew he was under Edo...maybe he didn't feel the need who knows. There's so many different translations now, I'll wait till Monday when it it released by Viz with the official english translation before I agree with that or not.

this was my answer, kabuto was letting him do whatever the **** he wanted, there was no need atm. and it was never stated they have to be released, they just had to have control over their on body. while tobirama didnt have that much control he couldve pulled a hanzo with the wil of fire and all.
 

naruttebayo

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i'm okay with the current with the current development
 

Uchiha Riyo

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Yet you still read the manga...Kishimoto's done so much for us man, whether you like it or not, this is what we've got. Kishimoto's done an outstanding job, it's true that there have been minor, maybe even major flaws in his plot and logic, sure it matters, but you can't change the manga. Once it's written, it's there, you can't change it, you have to learn how to live with it. If you think about it, Oro reviving wasn't that much of a surprise, and it does make sense, he was revived, another part of him might be sealed by the Tosuka Blade, but he's revived, it's been anticipated for some time now.
 

Whiteknight

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I know Madara broke out of Edo a couple of weeks ago but I haven't had the time to post this yet, but it has been bugging me...a lot. Like come on Kishi, really? Madara just so happens to know these secret hand signs that lets him break free from Edo? Give me a break. I have defended everything Kishi did so far, but it is just getting ridiculous, even more so now that Oro is back.

Seriously, Madara just happened to know the secret seals to break out of Edo? How would he possibly know these seals. Ok maybe he found them out, somehow, but the thing that bothers me the most is...how come ****ing TOBIRAMA, the CREATOR of Edo Tensei, didn't use these secret seals right away when Orochimaru summoned him, to break out of the Edo?

Because Tobirama was under mind control. Remember when Orochimaru inserted the seal into his head, and he became a fighting machine under Orochmaru's control? Madara could only use those seals to break free from the technique AFTER Kabuto released Edo tensei. Notice how Dan, after Kabuto released him, was able to use a technique he wasn't able to use before and go to save Tsunade. After Kabuto released the technique, but before the soul left for the pure realm, there was a moment when the bodies were able to control themselves. Madara used that moment to release himself. Tobirama never had that moment, he was always under control of Orochimaru.

There was a small period of time from the time he was revived until when Orochimaru put the talisman's into his head to fully control him. Your telling me the Second AND First Hokage, the two strongest Hokage, couldn't do this?

And you're telling me that they had complete control over their bodies before the talisman seals were put in their heads. It didn't look to me like they were conscious or able to move at that time. Do you have any evidence to suggest that they were not under some level of control at that point AND that they were free to move? I see no evidence of that.

As for Orochimaru...he obviously put a part of his soul into the curse marks, and Sasuke was able to use that to revive him, but there is a major flaw in this, or at least I think so. If he only put a part of his soul into the person, that means when he gets revived he will still only have that part of his soul in the new body, but that would also mean he wouldn't be able to use whatever body parts that that soul was not bound to.


Wait a minute, what exactly do you mean by "soul"? Orochimaru only said that part of his chakra and consciousness were in the cursed seal. He didn't say "soul". But let's ignore that. Let's just call it a translation error or something and he did say "soul". Nowhere in the manga is it implied that a soul is broken up the way a body is broken up. Nowhere is it said that Orochimaru put a specific part of his soul-body into these seals either. This doesn't mean that Anko's seal got Orochimaru's Soul's leg, and Sasuke's seal got Orochimaru's Seal's arm. You're talking about dividing up something ethereal the same way that you divide up a physical body. That's a pretty big logical leap, and isn't supported by the manga. You're also making a very large and unsupported logical leap by claiming that the way the "soul" is handled during the death god seal is the same way the "soul" is treated in Orochimaru's cursed seal. The way Orochimaru explains it, he put his senjutsu chakra into the seal and a portion of his consciousness stuck with it.

Notice also that Minato and Kushina only sealed part of their chakra/soul into Naruto, but when they appeared in his mind it wasn't just a foot or an arm. We saw the whole body. This is even though Minato's "soul" is apparently sealed in the stomach of the death god. This doesn't work using the simple physical interpretation you're following.

Tl;dr: The soul doesn't work the same way the body does.

And people saying that the little snake that "escaped" Itachi's Totsuka Sword was actually Orochimaru with his ENTIRE soul, I don't see how that's possible. Like really, he REALLY turned himself into a little tiny snake with his entire soul and escaped the sword? No, he didn't. The sword started sealing him basically instantly, if not instantly it definitely started sealing him before Oro even knew that it was the Totsuka Sword, so he wouldn't be able to do anything to "escape".

You're making the same mistake here. You're saying that the last little white snake didn't hold Orochimaru's soul. Sure, it didn't contain the entire thing, but then again, neither did Sasuke's cursed seal. Or anko's cursed seal. Wait, how many cursed seals were there again, each of which had a portion of Orochimaru's "soul"? And didn't Kabuto have some of Orochimaru's "chakra" in him also?

The soul in the world of Naruto isn't like a candy bar, where you eat half of it and that half is just gone. It's more like water. If you pour one gallon of water on the floor, the floor is wet. If you pour half a gallon of water on the floor, the floor is still wet. If you put a single little drop on the floor, the floor in that little space is STILL wet. And, no matter how many times you divide it in half (assuming you don't have a nuclear furnace in your basement), it's still water.

Further, in the manga there's never really a distinction between a soul and chakra. When Minato and Kushina put their "chakra" into Naruto, their consciousness and their "soul" appeared to go with it, EVEN THOUGH Minato's "soul" was clearly sealed into the death god too. Also, we know that Minato sealed half of the fox's "chakra" into the death god (even though the death god appears to deal in "souls"), but the part of the fox inside Naruto is still clearly 100% complete, has all his limbs, and is STILL more powerful than 5 other bijuu combined. Wait, what did Minato seal, again?

Chakra is something that WE KNOW regenerates. If you use all your chakra, and then get some rest, your chakra comes back. If Orochimaru gives away 90% of his chakra, and then waits for a while, he'll be back at 100% and the other person will still have that 90%. We've seen examples of chakra regeneration HUNDREDS OF TIMES in the manga.

If your soul and your chakra are essentially the same thing, and if chakra regenerates (a process which appears to be tied to the heart), then so long as Orochimaru has a body his chakra will regenerate so long as he isn't at 0% (because at 0, you die).
 

Gooner4life

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how the hell is it bertter to bring back orocihmaur over keeping madara?

did u know madara fought hasihrama?
did u know madara knows nagato?
did u know he knows about tobi?
did u know he started the series?

now orocihmaru, other than studying madara and hasihrama his whole life why would it make more sense to bring back orocihmamr over madara?

Relax, I said that I wanted Madara to stay what I meant is that method of Oro's return is more logical, not Oro's return itself. It's just the way Madara came back didn't make sense.
 

Aze

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Madara is a a pure genius ninja like Minato = except for the fact , that Madara is "more sinister" and acts upon revenge etc.
 

boshans

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Because Tobirama was under mind control. Remember when Orochimaru inserted the seal into his head, and he became a fighting machine under Orochmaru's control? Madara could only use those seals to break free from the technique AFTER Kabuto released Edo tensei. Notice how Dan, after Kabuto released him, was able to use a technique he wasn't able to use before and go to save Tsunade. After Kabuto released the technique, but before the soul left for the pure realm, there was a moment when the bodies were able to control themselves. Madara used that moment to release himself. Tobirama never had that moment, he was always under control of Orochimaru.



And you're telling me that they had complete control over their bodies before the talisman seals were put in their heads. It didn't look to me like they were conscious or able to move at that time. Do you have any evidence to suggest that they were not under some level of control at that point AND that they were free to move? I see no evidence of that.

No I don't have evidence, but we know they weren't under complete control until Orochimaru placed the talisman's into their heads, since they were able to talk freely to Hiruzen. Even if they had a little bit of control, I don't think it is that farfetched that they would be able to break free. It IS Hashirama and Tobirama we are talking about, Hashirama was the only one able to stand up against Madara, and I'm sure Tobirama was equally as good. Madara did it, I would imagine Hashi could find a way. I guess the thing that really bothers me is how Madara even knew about the hand signs to break free. Like really, Tobirama probably barely used Edo Tensei, and I am 100% sure he wouldn't show Madara ANYTHING about how it works or any of the hand signs. So how in the hell would Madara just magically know them. I think Kishi could have just used some other way to make him escape instead of some lame "do a couple hand signs and be free."


Wait a minute, what exactly do you mean by "soul"? Orochimaru only said that part of his chakra and consciousness were in the cursed seal. He didn't say "soul". But let's ignore that. Let's just call it a translation error or something and he did say "soul". Nowhere in the manga is it implied that a soul is broken up the way a body is broken up. Nowhere is it said that Orochimaru put a specific part of his soul-body into these seals either. This doesn't mean that Anko's seal got Orochimaru's Soul's leg, and Sasuke's seal got Orochimaru's Seal's arm. You're talking about dividing up something ethereal the same way that you divide up a physical body. That's a pretty big logical leap, and isn't supported by the manga. You're also making a very large and unsupported logical leap by claiming that the way the "soul" is handled during the death god seal is the same way the "soul" is treated in Orochimaru's cursed seal. The way Orochimaru explains it, he put his senjutsu chakra into the seal and a portion of his consciousness stuck with it.

Notice also that Minato and Kushina only sealed part of their chakra/soul into Naruto, but when they appeared in his mind it wasn't just a foot or an arm. We saw the whole body. This is even though Minato's "soul" is apparently sealed in the stomach of the death god. This doesn't work using the simple physical interpretation you're following.

Tl;dr: The soul doesn't work the same way the body does.

Yes I am just going by the Death God Seal. That is obviously what the soul of the body looks like, so I think it is safe to assume that that is how the soul works. If anything Orochimaru should NOT have control of his arms after a period of time now. If he does, then that is bullshit. To be honest I didn't read all of your post, I will later. I get what you are saying though from the little bit I did read. There probably isn't like, Orochimaru's leg soul in Anko's body or whatever piece it would be. Either way I think he should be weaker than his normal self, since most of him got sealed in Totsuka. He did say he was to weak right now to take on Sasuke, so I guess we will see. There obviously had to have been SOME part of his soul sealed in Totsuka Sword...so I think it is just unreasonable to have him be back at full strength. So I guess we will find out, he should at least lose control of his arms thanks to the Death God, maybe he will never get to his full power also, who knows.



You're making the same mistake here. You're saying that the last little white snake didn't hold Orochimaru's soul. Sure, it didn't contain the entire thing, but then again, neither did Sasuke's cursed seal. Or anko's cursed seal. Wait, how many cursed seals were there again, each of which had a portion of Orochimaru's "soul"? And didn't Kabuto have some of Orochimaru's "chakra" in him also?

The soul in the world of Naruto isn't like a candy bar, where you eat half of it and that half is just gone. It's more like water. If you pour one gallon of water on the floor, the floor is wet. If you pour half a gallon of water on the floor, the floor is still wet. If you put a single little drop on the floor, the floor in that little space is STILL wet. And, no matter how many times you divide it in half (assuming you don't have a nuclear furnace in your basement), it's still water.

Further, in the manga there's never really a distinction between a soul and chakra. When Minato and Kushina put their "chakra" into Naruto, their consciousness and their "soul" appeared to go with it, EVEN THOUGH Minato's "soul" was clearly sealed into the death god too. Also, we know that Minato sealed half of the fox's "chakra" into the death god (even though the death god appears to deal in "souls"), but the part of the fox inside Naruto is still clearly 100% complete, has all his limbs, and is STILL more powerful than 5 other bijuu combined. Wait, what did Minato seal, again?

Chakra is something that WE KNOW regenerates. If you use all your chakra, and then get some rest, your chakra comes back. If Orochimaru gives away 90% of his chakra, and then waits for a while, he'll be back at 100% and the other person will still have that 90%. We've seen examples of chakra regeneration HUNDREDS OF TIMES in the manga.

If your soul and your chakra are essentially the same thing, and if chakra regenerates (a process which appears to be tied to the heart), then so long as Orochimaru has a body his chakra will regenerate so long as he isn't at 0% (because at 0, you die).

Yea I guess if Chakra and the Soul are one in the same, then Orochimaru would be able to regenerate completely. What you said basically is the problem though, there never is one 100% indication of exactly what the soul is or if chakra is the soul itself. I don't care that Oro is back, I do like him, I think Kishi is just grasping at straws now. At least make it make 100% sense on how he came back. Oro DID get sealed into Itachi's sword, and it said that it seals the soul forever, so I don't know, having Chakra that was in a person's body such as Anko's just magically be able to turn into a fully formed and conscience Orochimaru is just a little bit of a stretch to me. Obviously he wouldn't be able to escape by himself, Sasuke had to do it, but still. It is just Chakra. Going by that, Minato should have been able to get out of Naruto's body and be revived also, since he just sealed his Chakra into Naruto. All I know is Oro better lose the function of his arms, otherwise it is going to be really dumb.

Oh and whoever was saying that why do you read the manga then and blah blah don't bash Kishi. I said I liked everything Kishi has done so far, and defended him on everything. I just thought Madara breaking free and Oro coming back were a little weak. I still think he does a good job though, and Naruto is an awesome Manga.
 

Ero sennin jiraiya

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I thought that madara breaking edo tensei was pretty stupid. I suppose it isn't completely out of the realm of plausibility. The whole orochimaru thing though a lot of people predicted that and were sure oro was going to be back. I knew it was going to happen but i wasnt exactly sure how. Not a huge surprise when he came back, and it was actually relatively believable. Oro had already popped out of a curse mark once, it's not surprising that it was possible to revive him using anko's curse mark.
 
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i dont thnk the word is sinister . its more on the lines of madness for one's clan !!! kinda like crazy fanatic patriotism !!
Madara is a a pure genius ninja like Minato = except for the fact , that Madara is "more sinister" and acts upon revenge etc.
 

Rexoniel

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Kishi has been doing alot of bs things with the story lately. I hate the way Kabuto lost to a random new sharingan ability. Why would you punish people that abuse Izanagi when its going to cost them an eye anyway? I doubt there were that many mother f*ckers running around with extra eyes on their arms, so it seems stupid to sacrifice one of your eyes to put them in izanami to teach them a lesson.

Madara knowing the seals to break from Edo tensei is unbelievable. He probably would have never expected to be brought back with edo tensei seeing how it was invented by his worst enemy's brother so who the fawk would teach him how to do this?

Orochimaru I could accept coming back through Kabuto alot more than Anko. I would have settled for Orchimaru's dna completely taking over while Kabuto is spacing out or that freaky snake detaching from him and becoming Orochimaro somehow but....coming out of Anko's cursed seal is lame. First of all the curse seal isn't orignally Orochimaru's thing. It was made through Hugo's dna/chakra so how Oro can imprint himself on people through it is beyond me. Second of all, Oro's mind should be dreaming in Itachi's legendary sword not just floating around Anko. It doesn't make sense period. There were a ton of other people with cursemarks still left over when Sasuke was searching for Jugo and I don't believe Oro's consciousness has any business to be on them or Anko.

Also Sasuke's upcoming adventure is like a suspenseful filler waiting to happen. F*cking just read whats on the scroll and name who you want to speak to outloud so we can get back to Tobi or Madara.
 
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Renon

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Seems like Kishi started forgetting rules of ninja world he wrote in the past since Naruto got Super Saiyan mode. +rep

you know I made a thread similar to this and all I got was a bunch of stupid ****en trolls asking If I ever seen a ninja. Yes I believe we have been getting trolled lately.. hell now I am just waiting for them to gather up the dragon balls and summon Hashirama at this point.
 

Anub

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You need to look on the bright side: PEOPLE WILL STOP USING THE WORD KABUTOMARU!!! That right there is a win!
 

KingHashirama

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Haha yeah def. I mean I'm not MAD that Madara broke free of Edo, I'm just mad that the creator of the ****ing jutsu couldn't do the same thing. Yeah Madara is beast and obviously learned the seals to break free. But Tobirama should've been able to do the same thing.

I mean I understand that Kishi obviously didn't think of it back then, and it would be weird for Tobirama to break free of Edo at that point cause it would ruin the entire Hiruzen sacrificing himself thing. But at least make Madara break Edo another way then, that Tobirama WOULDN'T know how to do.

Mate did you pay attention to their fight??? o_O Madara could do whatever he wants in Edo tensei.. and the Second hokage couldn't and also Edo tensei was released.. this time But Tobirama was sealed before it could be Released =]

There was no way for tobirama to do the seals
 

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Weren't there other ET's that could talk freely & carry on with their personality but Kabuto still had them under control? Where as Oro let the 1st & 2nd talk freely before placing the tailsman which wiped their personality & perhaps their consciousness?

Kabuto didn't have any control over Madara because he believed what Madara could do personally was best rather than making moves for him. So that there is a big difference.
 
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