[Discussion] Serious discussion(I need to get this off my chest)

[Yubel]

I have been an anime fan my whole life, I've watched pretty much every anime and read every known manga you can think of. Thinking back on it, there is something that has been bothering me alot. This is the message most if not all series send.

If you're a kid growing up with this stuff it's going to really tear on your self-esteem because believe it or not. We do take lessons from whatever we watch and this has to do with talent vs hard work. All shonen series have these special people who are better than other characters or stronger than another character even if that character works harder.

When the characters you have to look up to are ones who were basically handed their position/power/strength while the ones who truly deserve it get denied, it can have the terrible consequence of discouraging hard work in you and you don't know this as a kid.

From DBZ to Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, HxH, Fairy Tail, Yu Yu Hakusho, the list goes on.

I can no longer respect anyone or anything that sends this message: "No matter how hard you work it doesn't matter because X person is special."

 

[Ricardo]

I'm special.

 

[Chikombo]

Even if Naruto was the son of the fourth he began as an outcast and he had to work really hard to get to places.

 

[Guntah]

How does One Piece send that message? Everyone there struggled to get where they are. I can't think of a single character that got free power with no struggle to it. Sure, some are more talented than others, and some have the advantage of devil fruits, but the path to power is a hard one, always. Talent can only guarantee so much and the Devil Fruits' powers will only work at their best if you bother to master them.

 

[FreakensteinAG]

While DBZ and Naruto's protagonists were given their potential through genetics or what-have-you, they still had to work their asses off, they don't just sit there until a villain comes then defeats it handily. You clearly see Goku and Vegeta having every chance they get to train. If not themselves, they are training their friends or offspring. Not even Saitama, the protagonist of One-Punch-Man, the dude who can destroy any character with one punch, had to work for it.

A better question would be what popular shounin manga had a protagonist that didn't work at all to achieve their glory?

 

[SZiaee]

Even if Naruto was the son of the fourth he began as an outcast and he had to work really hard to get to places.

Naruto was Ashura's reincarnation ... And he was known as "Child of Prophecy" since thousand years ago ... Perhaps he tried his best but you can't even compare his and Lee's hard work .
the OP is right .

 

[patrickscott]

If you as a developing person/ teenager have a certainty and peace within yourself of who you are and what you are capable of. The message that anime sends should be irrelevant to you.

 

[Punk Hazard]

One Piece isn't really like that.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Not really. That just tends to happen in many mainstream shounen battle focused shows which aren't everything to manga and anime.

But yes, most of those battle mangas, do indeed send that massage unconsciously, one piece however manages to get through that somehow, same with gintama, GGamara, rurouni kenshin and even full metal alchemist.

 

[jgusw3]

Naruto was Ashura's reincarnation ... And he was known as "Child of Prophecy" since thousand years ago ... Perhaps he tried his best but you can't even compare his and Lee's hard work .
the OP is right .

Ashura still had to work harder than Indra. Indra was stronger. Ashura gained strength from the connections he had with other people and nature. Naruto trained. He was at a disadvantage compared to Sasuke. Through most of the series, IMO, it felt like Sasuke's battles were handed to him too easy. It may of helped if we saw more of Sasuke's training.

 

[Chikombo]

Ashura still had to work harder than Indra. Indra was stronger. Ashura gained strength from the connections he had with other people and nature. Naruto trained. He was at a disadvantage compared to Sasuke. Through most of the series, IMO, it felt like Sasuke's battles were handed to him too easy. It may of helped if we saw more of Sasuke's training.

The whole point of Ashura was that he wasn't stronger than Indura but got powers from working hard.

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[Yubel]

How does One Piece send that message? Everyone there struggled to get where they are. I can't think of a single character that got free power with no struggle to it. Sure, some are more talented than others, and some have the advantage of devil fruits, but the path to power is a hard one, always. Talent can only guarantee so much and the Devil Fruits' powers will only work at their best if you bother to master them.

Luffy is blessed with divine luck which made him survive so many situations he'd die in a long time ago. He also has Haoshoku Haki which is something you're born with, not only that but he conveniently has the ability to hear the voice of all things. Not to mention his father and grandfather are both op so he was meant to reach his current position. He grew up with the pirate king's son etc.


You get the point, why couldn't he have just been a regular kid with a regular family who wasn't born with these gifts?

 

[Guntah]

Luffy is blessed with divine luck which made him survive so many situations he'd die in a long time ago. He also has Haoshoku Haki which is something you're born with, not only that but he conveniently has the ability to hear the voice of all things. Not to mention his father and grandfather are both op so he was meant to reach his current position. He grew up with the pirate king's son etc.


You get the point, why couldn't he have just been a regular kid with a regular family who wasn't born with these gifts?

I do see what you mean by luck, but even if he survived certain events like, say, his fight with Magellan, he still had to go through a lot of pain and sacrifice a lot to get through it. Haoshoku Haki is also not that big a deal. A gift, maybe, but he worked hard to use it and it does not at all define his powers. If anything, its a minor boost to take out fodder compared to what he truly worked hard to get. And he worked on his own. He wasn't trained by his grandfather nor his father. Neither had any effect on what he went through and the path he took.

Point is, even if he is not a complete nobody, you can't at any point say that he was handed his strength or his position. No, he worked hard to get there, and even if he was lucky to survive to this point, you cannot at any point deny credit to Luffy after all he had to do.

 

[Yubel]

I do see what you mean by luck, but even if he survived certain events like, say, his fight with Magellan, he still had to go through a lot of pain and sacrifice a lot to get through it. Haoshoku Haki is also not that big a deal. A gift, maybe, but he worked hard to use it and it does not at all define his powers. If anything, its a minor boost to take out fodder compared to what he truly worked hard to get. And he worked on his own. He wasn't trained by his grandfather nor his father. Neither had any effect on what he went through and the path he took.

Point is, even if he is not a complete nobody, you can't at any point say that he was handed his strength or his position. No, he worked hard to get there, and even if he was lucky to survive to this point, you cannot at any point deny credit to Luffy after all he had to do.

I forgot to even mention he got trained by Pirate King's first mate, geez how often does that happen?

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Everyone is blessed in some way, you shouldn't disregard their achievements and struggle because of that, and the "I'm special" message is not completely out of reality.

For example, we are all lucky that we were blessed with good health, mentally, and physically. Should children with disabilities loathe every character who was fortunate to not have them?

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

just makes the stories more interesting and adds depth to the characters and world. though i get what your saying, realism isnt really the goal with most anime. i mean friendship triumphs all and tons of other cliches arent necessarily realistic

but in my opinion thats part of why hardcore anime fans, like otakus and weeaboos love anime and why it's worldwide. its not realistic but believeable in its own context and interesting enough to lose yourself in

 

[ChicagoJhawk]

That's how the world is tho. Hard work will take you a long way but luck and being that one person who has that exceptional ability will always trump all

 

[Yubel]

That's how the world is tho. Hard work will take you a long way but luck and being that one person who has that exceptional ability will always trump all

I don't believe that at all. There is no such thing as that one person. Sure some may have been lucky but that is a part of working hard. Luck is merely opportunity, and by working hard you become increasingly able to take advantage of that opportunity when it presents itself.

 

[baul 24]

Naruto was Ashura's reincarnation ... And he was known as "Child of Prophecy" since thousand years ago ... Perhaps he tried his best but you can't even compare his and Lee's hard work .
the OP is right .

yeah pretty much right. naruto doesn't even come close in hardwork to guy or lee that and yes he is destined to greatness from birth and neji was right about destiny stuff.

 

[Yubel]

Everyone is blessed in some way, you shouldn't disregard their achievements and struggle because of that, and the "I'm special" message is not completely out of reality.

For example, we are all lucky that we were blessed with good health, mentally, and physically. Should children with disabilities loathe every character who was fortunate to not have them?

You raise a fair point but what then determines who gets blessed and who doesn't? And why can't either everyone get blessed or no one does? It's still messed up when you think about it.