Senjutsu!

[Michael]

I think a few people are getting off topic and others are adding their own personal beliefs of the narutoverse.

Most of my speculations stem from manga facts and I also have created a thread comparing the abilities of Naruto's Senjutsu to his Kyuubi's powerups.
Here is a link..

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Starting from you're initial post, this is true. The Juubi's energy and the world they live in share the same chakra. The Juubi is indeed the fabled tree of life. Therefore the Juubi is the world/planet, Nature itself.
ALL other forms of chakra are manipulations of this original energy therefore that is the only thing that could stop it.

The entire flaw in your argument is that senjutsu disrupts chakra where it is as someone stated the art of collecting nature chakra. Falling under a genjutsu means someone is controlling you're chakra. Meaning even if you are a tailed beast who has more chakra than someone else, you can still fall under the spell.

The only way to release a genjutsu is for someone to force their chakra into you to disrupt your flow and regain control. Think of it as a reset button. An Individual does not have this ability with or without sage mode.

Moving to your next statement, it is true Itachi *said* only someone with MS could break it.
If you read deep enough into the manga or understand the small details that are taking place you would come to the conclusion that yes Sasuke had 3 tomoe but he also was in possession of the cursed seal mark at the time. Which is, senjutsu based..

Everyone knows Madara needed Hashirama's DNA to unlock Rinnegan. MEANING Uchiha + Senju = Sage6Path.
Sasuke Uchiha blood mixing with the senjutsu of the cursed seal gave Sasuke Rikudou powers. I also doubt itachi knew of the powers of Senju as most of them seemed to be extinct and the last known user was Mintao who died when itachi was still young.

Addressing other things.. Kabuto no did not achieve Rikudou Senjutsu, he peaked at the level of the Sannin, which is basically naruto's Sage Mode. Without Rikudou powers or a tailed beast, he would be unable to escape genjutsu. Especially one of that power.

Another point, someone said Sage Mode and RSM are not very much different.
I implore you to look at the difference in amount of time it took for nature to achieve both of these things. If RSM was not a sufficient powerup. He would have got smacked around by pre-juubi Madara.. again.

Naruto and Sasuked DIED! quite easily.. to a single eyed Madara. Once he achieved juubidara. It would not make any sense of RSM =SM in any semblance. They are worlds apart in size of jutsu and chakra manipulate.

Fail @ Bold. Genjutsu can indeed be broken by one stopping their flow of chakra and suddenly releasing it in a powerful surge, its called Genjutsu Kai, Jiraiya thoroughly explained this. Naruto could indeed apply Rikudou Senjutsu in this method. To top it off the bijuu's are basically energizers, if they all supplied Naruto with chakra combined with his Rikudou Senjutsu, it'd be a Massive Surge of godly chakra that would break tsukuyomi laughable diff and would probably result in itachi lying of the ground from the vastly superior power of Naruto.

 

[Dantee]

Such fail. Why did Kabuto close his eyes the entire fight with Itachi despite mastering Sage Mode.

 

[Michael]

Such fail. Why did Kabuto close his eyes the entire fight with Itachi despite mastering Sage Mode.

Fail

1. Kabuto doesn't have Rikudou Senjutsu.
2. Itachi or Sasuke didn't even attempt genjutsu on him, i wonder why. :bdpf:

3. Asspull Izanami doesn't count for obvious reasons.

 

[Dantee]

Fail

1. Kabuto doesn't have Rikudou Senjutsu.
2. Itachi or Sasuke even attempted genjutsu on him, i wonder why. :bdpf:

3. Asspull Izanami doesn't count for obvious reasons.

All that proof no wonder your this thread is ignored.

 

[Uzumaki Bolt]

Fail

1. Kabuto doesn't have Rikudou Senjutsu.
2. Itachi or Sasuke even attempted genjutsu on him, i wonder why. :bdpf:

3. Asspull Izanami doesn't count for obvious reasons.

1. Irrelevant.

2. But it didn't work. Kabuto bragged that it was due to him shutting off his eyes, but was that really the case? Surely, he didn't fight an Uchiha prior to that while shutting his vision to test his theory, and there's therefore every chance that it could just be that - a theory.

3. Izanami is also a Genjutsu invoked through the eyes. This somehow worked, because it was a special illusion that's more real than an actual illusion. I'd even go as far as saying that Izanami and Izanagi are on the level of Infinite Tsukuyomi, and definitely higher than Itachi's Tsukuyomi. But all that is besides my point.

When Izanami worked, we can establish that Kabuto's theory about shutting his vision wasn't exactly accurate. More or less, knowingly or unknowingly, I believe his DSM had something to do with the Genjutsu not working on him. Moreover, I also believe that Izanami simply surpassed due to overpowering his DSM.

Supporting this is also the fact that nobody in any Sage Mode has ever fallen under Genjutsu bar sacrificial ones (Izanami/Izanagi) and Infinite Tsukuyomi, which are understandable. Finally, that Itachi stating that he and the shark couldn't beat the perverted hermit, despite the likes of Tsukuyomi being, according to some of you, high and mighty and well above Sage Mode.

Post-finally, that Sasuke turned back to get EMS the moment he learned that Naruto surpassed MS Sasuke (by obtaining Sage Mode).

SM > MS. They are not equal by any measure.

 

[VongolaX]

Rikudou senjustu has universal awareness by hype and understands all things.

Rikudou senjustu wouldn't be caught in the first place because it would sense where and when tsukyomi would be used.

 

[Michael]

1. Irrelevant.

2. But it didn't work. Kabuto bragged that it was due to him shutting off his eyes, but was that really the case? Surely, he didn't fight an Uchiha prior to that while shutting his vision to test his theory, and there's therefore every chance that it could just be that - a theory.

3. Izanami is also a Genjutsu invoked through the eyes. This somehow worked, because it was a special illusion that's more real than an actual illusion. I'd even go as far as saying that Izanami and Izanagi are on the level of Infinite Tsukuyomi, and definitely higher than Itachi's Tsukuyomi. But all that is besides my point.

When Izanami worked, we can establish that Kabuto's theory about shutting his vision wasn't exactly accurate. More or less, knowingly or unknowingly, I believe his DSM had something to do with the Genjutsu not working on him. Moreover, I also believe that Izanami simply surpassed due to overpowering his DSM.

Supporting this is also the fact that nobody in any Sage Mode has ever fallen under Genjutsu bar sacrificial ones (Izanami/Izanagi) and Infinite Tsukuyomi, which are understandable. Finally, that Itachi stating that he and the shark couldn't beat the perverted hermit, despite the likes of Tsukuyomi being, according to some of you, high and mighty and well above Sage Mode.

Post-finally, that Sasuke turned back to get EMS the moment he learned that Naruto surpassed MS Sasuke (by obtaining Sage Mode).

SM > MS. They are not equal by any measure.

Izanami was an asspull technique that magically didn't require eye contact or anything, i already know sage mode is superior to MS. This was proved when Hashirama was owning EMS Madara with Susanoo Clad Kurama.

 

[Shruikan]

It seems Lesula threads have been declining in quality lately.This is the second thread not yet gone past 2 pages.

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[Michael]

All that proof no wonder your this thread is ignored.

If you actually read OP you'd see i was referring to Naruto(Perfect Sage) and his Rikudou Senjutsu, not that fail science project kabuto whom wasn't a perfect sage nor Rikudou level.

 

[Michael]

It seems Lesula threads have been declining in quality lately.This is the second thread not yet gone past 2 pages.

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Don't confuse my normal threads with bait threads, i'll make a grade A bait thread soon. =D

 

[Zealous Sparks]

This is an interesting thread with a lot of well constructed arguments, and it's definitely a subject I think about often. Obviously, the answer to this question is highly subjective, and I don't believe there is a single right answer. I like reading everyone's opinion on the matter, though, and I hope this discussion goes on.

 

[Michael]

This is an interesting thread with a lot of well constructed arguments, and it's definitely a subject I think about often. Obviously, the answer to this question is highly subjective, and I don't believe there is a single right answer. I like reading everyone's opinion on the matter, though, and I hope this discussion goes on.

Yeah, I was curious because Rikudou Senjutsu is by far the most powerful/haxxed chakra. :bdpf:

 

[Dantee]

If you actually read OP you'd see i was referring to Naruto(Perfect Sage) and his Rikudou Senjutsu, not that fail science project kabuto whom wasn't a perfect sage nor Rikudou level.

Only way Naruto doesnt die from Tsyukomi is if he fights with his eyes closed. Rikudou senjutsu doesnt mean he can break genjutsu that kills within moments.

 

[shelke]

Garbage thread. Kabuto's lids were closed to counter Uchiha Genjutsu. His Senjutsu or constant flow of NE into his system didn't help him. Not only that, your argument is speculative as according to the manga and the data book, two people are needed to break one Uchiha Genjutsu. Even then, we saw how perfect Jins cannot escape if the Genjutsu is too powerful or is Tsukuyomi.