Science, Religion, and Ignorance.

[Fountain]

Exactly.

... Ok?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Did it ever crossed your mind that people thousands of years ago might not've had the same terminology we have today?

That's what translations and the scholars who dedicate their lives to the linguistics of it are for. By this logic, we can never trust any translation of the bible and only the original Greek and Hebrew the bible was written in. You speak Greek and Hebrew fluently enough to translate it better than official publications of the Bible? No? Thought so.

 

[adamhill302]

So you don't question the fallacy behind a creature that can create anything in an instant to take 6 full days to create a planet and need to rest on the 7th?

There's some solid theories on the origin of life. A lot of quantum physics involved. It's not a simple explanation as an omnipotent being simply popping us into existence.

We are all composed of the same atoms as everything else, except our atoms are just arranged differently and we have different quantities. The basic building blocks of reality are the same for everything, whether it is a star or whether it a diamond.

Ok, another question. Do you believe that the first woman was made out of a man's ribs?

Atoms don't exist

 

[Fountain]

That's what translations and the scholars who dedicate their lives to the linguistics of it are for. By this logic, we can never trust any translation of the bible and only the original Greek and Hebrew the bible was written in. You speak Greek and Hebrew fluently enough to translate it better than official publications of the Bible? No? Thought so.

It has nothing to do with translation. That's not what i meant when i said they didn't have the same terminology.

To put it simple, language was shorter, it wasn't as complex as it is today, they didn't have fancy words to professionally explain anything and everything. Does that make any sense?

 

[Clown World]

There's nothing obvious about it considering people took the bible literally and still do.

It's supposed to be the word of God. You don't get to decide what God meant, otherwise you can twist the word of God any way you see fit.




Which God? Odin, Yahweh, Ra, Brahma, Anu, etc.? There are thousands of them.

yeah cause people definitely believe the earth was created in 6 days.....

 

[Punk Hazard]

It has nothing to do with translation. That's not what i meant when i said they didn't have the same terminology.

To put it simple, language was shorter, it wasn't as complex as it is today, they didn't have fancy words to professionally explain anything and everything. Does that make any sense?

Translation has everything to do with it. Translating between languages is not simply taking words directly from one to the other. Otherwise, you'd end up with grammatical errors and context lost. A simple example, translating "The red dog" to Spanish is not simply translating each individual word, but also taking into account grammatical and cultural context. If you ignored the latter and did the former, translating "the red dog" would be "El rojo perro," when in reality, the spanish version is "el perro rojo."

Translating the Bible will work the same way. Just because the Greek and Hebrew writing might have a different way of saying it doesn't mean that the translation to English doesn't matter. If the Greek or Hebrew writing of a verse conveys "light splits into colors" as its meaning in that language, that meaning is then taken and converted to English. The English text not conveying that meaning doesn't mean it was lost because the phrases in the two languages are different, it means that that meaning wasn't in the original text.

 

[Fountain]

Translation has everything to do with it. Translating between languages is not simply taking words directly from one to the other. Otherwise, you'd end up with grammatical errors and context lost. A simple example, translating "The red dog" to Spanish is not simply translating each individual word, but also taking into account grammatical and cultural context. If you ignored the latter and did the former, translating "the red dog" would be "El rojo perro," when in reality, the spanish version is "el perro rojo."

Translating the Bible will work the same way. Just because the Greek and Hebrew writing might have a different way of saying it doesn't mean that the translation to English doesn't matter. If the Greek or Hebrew writing of a verse conveys "light splits into colors" as its meaning in that language, that meaning is then taken and converted to English. The English text not conveying that meaning doesn't mean it was lost because the phrases in the two languages are different, it means that that meaning wasn't in the original text.

Why are we talking about translations?

 

[Lightbringer]

yeah cause people definitely believe the earth was created in 6 days.....

They still do. Even our politicians like Ben Carson, who was a top GOP contender and current HUD Secretary in the Trump administration believes this. He explicitly stated that he believes it was created in 6 days.

Also here's a poll about various religious statements. Over 1/3 of the country believes the Earth was created in 6 days..

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[Avani 🥈]

What are you talking about Jean Grey. I never claimed i didn't, i did made a comparison and i thought it was rather clear and legitimate. I compared how much both had in common when it comes to people blindly defending one or the other, treating others like they are stupid for disagreeing with them or sharing an alternative theory etc., or simply not being open minded (for short). Something you clearly seem to be (no offense) since you seem to be defending and putting science on such high pedestal and giving me unnecessary lectures on what hearsay is or how science works as if i didn't know, or as if you were a scientist yourself.

@ bold: Let me break it down for you:

People would rather blindly belive in something someone else says than their own intuition, than question said things, and do their own personal research, not entirely based on what someone else says. ...

That's religion you are describing.

Why can't people do their own rational research and use logic based on their own personal experiences, research, and belives rather than someone else's? God is fake. Well, why can't we think of a possibility for god to exist instead of straight up saying it and claiming everything in the bible is bullcrap? The dinosaurs were real. Ok, why can't we question that either, find some actual bones ourselves and study them instead of saying oh this guy said it and he's an archeologist so it's true, here's the evidence, you're stupid, nice tin foil hat.

It's such a shame. It's always A or B, there is no C.

The same logic applies to pretty much everything else. This is one of the main reasons why society keeps going downhill and we see so many people rioting and calling eachother trash and racists etc.

What are your thoughts?

You are most welcome to find your own dinosaur bone and research anytime. No one has to wait for a prophet to lead them and trust on hearsay. It's not scientists stopping you. Only thing that stops anyone from checking the scientific facts oneself is knowledge where to look and to understand what they are looking at, without destroying the evidence in the process. Otherwise there won't be science laboratories for practicals provided by schools but only libraries like religious institutes.

Your post is so random.. You started comparing religion with science, and ended up with racism somehow.[/COLOR]

I didn't specify anything but 'people' when i said that.



So it would be hearsay for me to do but not another person?



Maybe because the main idea of my thread wasn't to compare science with religion but rather make a point about how people are so ignorant to blindly trust and belive in something and limit themselves to hear anything else, wich applies to pretty much everything.



I'm aware of that.

But you did compare them directly and claimed believing scientific postulates is same as religious beliefs, while it's just not true. You didn't even give any other coherent argument.


Hearsay is information received from other people which cannot be substantiated, otherwise but for your trust in the person. It could just be a rumour or made up tale or truth but you only have other person's word for it. - works for religious claims of getting in touch with the divine powers.

If science operated that way, we wouldn't have to study so many theories, and their derivations, or spend hours in the labs on practicals trying to study those effects ourselves. New scientists are always welcome to test old data and theories and give their own if they can. One must be able to replicate the experiment and share the experience and details of findings with other people for it to be validated. There is nothing blind about it. You are just mistaken about how scientific community operates.

The reply is in corresponding colours and I'm saying your point of comparison and examples are erroneous and forced since those aspects you claim to be the same, actually aren't. The examples or arguments you pick to illustrate your point do just the opposite. If you re-read the whole conversation you may understand it better. If you cannot see that, suit yourself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Clown World]

They still do. Even our politicians like Ben Carson, who was a top GOP contender and current HUD Secretary in the Trump administration believes this. He explicitly stated that he believes it was created in 6 days.

Also here's a poll about various religious statements. Over 1/3 of the country believes the Earth was created in 6 days..

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see images

Well they are obviously retarded, but that doesnt change that the majority dont believe it and try to interpret the bible on a metaphoric level, "But only 21 percent agreed that everything in the Bible is literally true." Meaning that most understand its symbolic implications. "Ask whether humans have been around for only 10,000 years, and the hardcore—those who are absolutely or very certain on all five questions—shrinks to 7 percent."

 

[ArabianLuffy]

That's what translations and the scholars who dedicate their lives to the linguistics of it are for. By this logic, we can never trust any translation of the bible and only the original Greek and Hebrew the bible was written in. You speak Greek and Hebrew fluently enough to translate it better than official publications of the Bible? No? Thought so.

It would be pretty much safe for anyone to read the bible on the language that was written for it in the first place. Explanation would do fine, but never in history translation method would transfer the message and ideologies the very same. That's why you see different act between people of the same religion.

 

[Edogawa]

Which God? Odin, Yahweh, Ra, Brahma, Anu, etc.? There are thousands of them.

There is only one God.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Why are we talking about translations?

Because you brought it up, saying that using terminology in Greek that's different from English terminology is why the Bible doesn't actually say the things AFK tried to say it does.

It would be pretty much safe for anyone to read the bible on the language that was written for it in the first place. Explanation would do fine, but never in history translation method would transfer the message and ideologies the very same. That's why you see different act between people of the same religion.

Of course no translation is ever perfect, but it's a bad defense from Biblical proponents against criticisms of the things the Bible says. If the things that can negatively be said about the Bible is dismissed because "Well, things are lost in translation and look differently than God intended," then the same can be done about anything positive said about the Bible as well.

 

[Lightbringer]

There is only one God.

And which is the one true God and how do you know this?

Well they are obviously retarded, but that doesnt change that the majority dont believe it and try to interpret the bible on a metaphoric level, "But only 21 percent agreed that everything in the Bible is literally true." Meaning that most understand its symbolic implications. "Ask whether humans have been around for only 10,000 years, and the hardcore—those who are absolutely or very certain on all five questions—shrinks to 7 percent."

You say it's retarded, yet before science debunked biblical texts, that's what people believed and still do.

So by saying that it's retarded to believe such things, you're also saying that the bible is retarded as well.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Atoms don't exist

:elmo:

 

[salamander uchiha]

Science is a term thrown around to justify why its okay to be sheeple and move away from God. It requires observable evidence that can be tested but in most cases that doesn't exist so we have theories. And fools tout theories even irrational ones as fact because it's called science. In other words be a blind follower of a human who's speculating versus faith in God.

 

[TrueRage]

i said this on othere post im going to use it here as well and im going to add to it at the end / iv read alot of the coments and alot speak of the Bible, the Bible was never mint to be taken in a litrel since and #2 it was made from 12 ta 15 difrent peapels point of vew , then you have to think of what was added and what was left out like the book of enock for 1 , if i remember right there was 20 books left out not sure on that so for give me if wrong, then you have to think of the translation of it from hebrew. ps sorry for the spelling im high as fuk atm lol / i dont see God as a supernatural thing but as a flesh and blood . a Intellect and Technologie superuer than us , say i was to go back 2000 years and use a lighter i would be seen as a god or demei god cus i can make fire from my hand . i see god the same way

 

[Chikombo]

I've been thinking about this stuff lately, and you know... I found out that science and religion actually have a lot in common, a lot more than i thought. In *religion you have the bible and those who are devoted to it. To their accordance, god is real and everything written in the bible is true, and you shouldn't question the existence of god or sin, or else your soul will go to hell. Then when it comes to science, you'll have someone like Neil Degrasse (for example) give you their explanation why the moon landing was real, and you're not allowed to question it or come up with your own explanation or else you would be ignored or treated as an idiot. This goes for everything else, this was only an example.

People would rather blindly belive in something someone else says than their own intuition, than question said things, and do their own personal research, not entirely based on what someone else says. And often if you question people they'll just say oh well you just don't belive in science, you're just crazy etc. here! look, it's the evidence. Then they'll show you the exact same thing they blindly trust and follow. They limit themselves to think for themselves and it's a damn shame.

Why can't people do their own rational research and use logic based on their own personal experiences, research, and belives rather than someone else's? God is fake. Well, why can't we think of a possibility for god to exist instead of straight up saying it and claiming everything in the bible is bullcrap? The dinosaurs were real. Ok, why can't we question that either, find some actual bones ourselves and study them instead of saying oh this guy said it and he's an archeologist so it's true, here's the evidence, you're stupid, nice tin foil hat.

It's such a shame. It's always A or B, there is no C.

The same logic applies to pretty much everything else. This is one of the main reasons why society keeps going downhill and we see so many people rioting and calling eachother trash and racists etc.

What are your thoughts?

Regardless if information comes from the bible or from Neil Degrasse Tyson if it's true then it's true, people are skeptical about sciense as well, people didn't believe everything Einstrein said and he proved Newton wrong. You can't prove the things in the bible, it's not objetcive truth, of course people can be subjective about objective truth as well but the things you learn at school are things that have been proofread, not things people just made up as an opinion, if the bible was true it would be in their aswell, you don't need to blindly believe the bible is accurate even if you are religious, it can be about other things than facts.

I'm sure there is a lot of blind faith when it comes to certain sources of information, science is a more respected source of information than the bible. So people don't really understand all of it or question it before they absorb it, but science isn't about formulating opinions or making stuff up, it's about actual exploration of how the world works so in that sense it's objective and definite.

 

[Deadlift]

It's supposed to be the word of God. God worked through those that put his words onto the bible.

If those are truly meant to be the words of God, then God would be able to phrase his wording in a way that can be understood by all throughout all ages.

I'm still waiting for a rebuttal to my reply to you. It's not hard to put down religious fundamentalists. Yet if you think that their claims are the best defense Christianity is able to offer you're pretty much as deluded as they are.

I certainly think that we can have a meaningful discussion on what we mean when we say that the Bible is the inspired word of God, so what about you go to my other post and deconstruct what I wrote there? Perhaps because you don't care about what is true and prefer to patronize weak opponents and
jump to triumphal conclusions?

 

[Chikombo]

I don't really go to religion to learn how the world works.
I don't think it's about that.