School asks officer not to wear uniform while bringing his child to/from school

Aim64C

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"All Scott Urkov did was drop his daughter off at Entz Elementary School. Little did he know that what he was wearing that day would lead to a call from the principal.

"There were some parents who were concerned about that fact that there was a fully armed officer on campus and they spoke to the principal about it," said Helen Hollands, spokesperson for Mesa Unified School District.

She says the principal spoke with Officer Urkov and asked him not to wear his uniform and gun to school anymore.
"

Part of the story, there.

Now... personally, were I that father, I would have asked the Principal: "So... what are you going to do if I decide to wear my uniform and firearm to school while dropping off my kid; call the police?"
 

FreakensteinAG

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That school principal must be off his rocker, like the school who suspended students for playing in recess brandishing guns in the form of their hands.
 

Punk Hazard

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You can understand their concern with the gun. With all that's happening nowadays with random gun killings. He should try better to make his gun less visible and better concealed, so no one feels threatened. Yes, he has the right to bear his arms. However, when you are making people uncomfortable or feel unsafe, and then refuse to atone your behavior with your rights as an excuse, then you're just a douche who doesn't deserve that right.
 

FreakensteinAG

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You can understand their concern with the gun. With all that's happening nowadays with random gun killings. He should try better to make his gun less visible and better concealed, so no one feels threatened. Yes, he has the right to bear his arms. However, when you are making people uncomfortable or feel unsafe, and then refuse to atone your behavior with your rights as an excuse, then you're just a douche who doesn't deserve that right.

But his daughter goes to that school, what is he going to do, use it on the school she's attending? :|
 

Punk Hazard

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But his daughter goes to that school, what is he going to do, use it on the school she's attending? :|
You're talking like people haven't gone mad and killed their own family before.
 

Currahee

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whats the big deal he can leave his gun in the car.
 

Punk Hazard

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Should we rely on this rare precedence to instill false safety and unnecessary regulation?

Unnecessary regulation? If people feel unsafe because of what you're doing, then you stop doing it. Simple as that.
 

Aim64C

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You can understand their concern with the gun. With all that's happening nowadays with random gun killings. He should try better to make his gun less visible and better concealed, so no one feels threatened. Yes, he has the right to bear his arms. However, when you are making people uncomfortable or feel unsafe, and then refuse to atone your behavior with your rights as an excuse, then you're just a douche who doesn't deserve that right.

In all of the previous school shootings in world history.

How many people saw "someone carrying a gun" before the attack was underway?

The closest you get to this is: "This guy just whipped a handgun out of his backpack..."

The people with the intent to shoot the place up conceal their firearms. Because they don't usually carry firearms and want to appear as normal as possible until the moment they launch their attack.

I've been to gun shows. Ammunition is being sold by the hundreds of rounds, all variety of different firearms, people open carrying their own selection - not an ounce of nervousness in me.

I carried two firearms 14 hours out of the day as part of a previous job I held. And a set of body armor that can take multiple 7.62 NATO rounds with a smile on its face. And worked with a few people I wished would spontaneously combust. Occasionally I was behind a belt-fed automatic weapon with up to 600 rounds of ammunition. There were ways to get creative and increase that amount by two fold or so. So I had positive control of three firearms.

Never harmed a soul.

One of the guys I work with, now, is a licensed retailer of firearms. We were out at his shop to do some work on my car, waiting for the oil to cool down, and looking through some of his inventory. Again - dozens of firearms with ammunition for them readily available and there wasn't a soul around for a mile. Perfect drama-film setup for someone to murder the other and it be a week before the body was found (if ever).

Nothing happened, except coming to the revelation that Toyota manufactured my Corolla to have an oil filter cap that was beyond the scope of one metric ton of automobile tools to open. Although someone put some kind of silicone adhesive/sealant around the thing (perhaps someone who no longer has a job...).

Besides... what is the school going to do... call the police?

I mean - if you want to live in a world devoid of firearms - I'm more than happy to never set foot on your land with a firearm. Just don't come crying to me when someone sees that "No weapons allowed" sign and interprets that to mean: "we have rid ourselves of effective defenses."
 

Aim64C

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Unnecessary regulation? If people feel unsafe because of what you're doing, then you stop doing it. Simple as that.

Depends upon whether or not I really care to keep that person in my company, and the compromise I'm making by ceasing my activity.

If someone doesn't feel safe because I have a firearm or two in my vehicle - they can find another ride.

If someone doesn't feel safe because I'm zoning out in their general direction, and they think I'm staring at them - I'll find some place else to look at while contemplating the depths of the universe.
 

Punk Hazard

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In all of the previous school shootings in world history.

How many people saw "someone carrying a gun" before the attack was underway?

The closest you get to this is: "This guy just whipped a handgun out of his backpack..."

The people with the intent to shoot the place up conceal their firearms. Because they don't usually carry firearms and want to appear as normal as possible until the moment they launch their attack.

I've been to gun shows. Ammunition is being sold by the hundreds of rounds, all variety of different firearms, people open carrying their own selection - not an ounce of nervousness in me.

I carried two firearms 14 hours out of the day as part of a previous job I held. And a set of body armor that can take multiple 7.62 NATO rounds with a smile on its face. And worked with a few people I wished would spontaneously combust. Occasionally I was behind a belt-fed automatic weapon with up to 600 rounds of ammunition. There were ways to get creative and increase that amount by two fold or so. So I had positive control of three firearms.

Never harmed a soul.

One of the guys I work with, now, is a licensed retailer of firearms. We were out at his shop to do some work on my car, waiting for the oil to cool down, and looking through some of his inventory. Again - dozens of firearms with ammunition for them readily available and there wasn't a soul around for a mile. Perfect drama-film setup for someone to murder the other and it be a week before the body was found (if ever).

Nothing happened, except coming to the revelation that Toyota manufactured my Corolla to have an oil filter cap that was beyond the scope of one metric ton of automobile tools to open. Although someone put some kind of silicone adhesive/sealant around the thing (perhaps someone who no longer has a job...).

Besides... what is the school going to do... call the police?

I mean - if you want to live in a world devoid of firearms - I'm more than happy to never set foot on your land with a firearm. Just don't come crying to me when someone sees that "No weapons allowed" sign and interprets that to mean: "we have rid ourselves of effective defenses."

So because you or your friends have never harmed a soul, then everyone with a gun are good guys right? The fact is, your right to carry a gun doesn't give you the right to make people feel unsafe. Can you carry your gun? Yeah sure, go ahead. But if people feel unsafe by the presence of your gun, then you should do better to keep it concealed. Why do people at a school have to see your gun?

Depends upon whether or not I really care to keep that person in my company, and the compromise I'm making by ceasing my activity.

If someone doesn't feel safe because I have a firearm or two in my vehicle - they can find another ride.

If someone doesn't feel safe because I'm zoning out in their general direction, and they think I'm staring at them - I'll find some place else to look at while contemplating the depths of the universe.

That's not what I mean. In this case, the guy regularly drops his daughter off. Meaning, this isn't just some one-time occurrence that be brushed off. If he's there every day with generally the same people, then he's just being inconsiderate. A car is a big thing, there's plenty of ways for you to have your gun, but not have it showing and making people feel uncomfortable.
 
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Apocalypse Ninja

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I don't see a problem with it, the officer should be able to carry his firearm anywhere. Personally I'd feel more safe with a police officer with a firearm around any day of the week.
 

Sabuto Hayashi

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I can understand how some might feel uneasy around an armed officer, but it's really not that big of a deal. After all, the whole reason he has the gun is to protect the civilians around him.

That said, it would be respectable to at least conceal the weapon in the presence of schoolchildren. There's no reason to flash it around in the open when it's not being used, even if he has a right to bear it.
 

Unbiased King

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Aren't the parents just being butthurt about all this?

Think about it: why would a kid ever be afraid of a police officer? The uniform is what gives the kids that sense of security, regardless if he is armed or not.

And as I understand it, it was the parents complaining, not because their kids were afraid, but solely because he was armed.

EDIT:

If it were some random guy, then SURE, by all means, have him keep his gun off campus, but it's a local police officer for cryin' out loud!
 

Aim64C

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So because you or your friends have never harmed a soul, then everyone with a gun are good guys right? The fact is, your right to carry a gun doesn't give you the right to make people feel unsafe. Can you carry your gun? Yeah sure, go ahead. But if people feel unsafe by the presence of your gun, then you should do better to keep it concealed. Why do people at a school have to see your gun?

Hun, the list of people who see my gun is very small. I use the terms firearm, rifle, and handgun for a reason. There's an old Marine Corps ritual that explains the difference. The term 'gun' is to be reserved for penile innuendoes and to refer to a class of large-bore weapons used aboard ships and some land vehicles.

The problem is that people do not have the right to tell me to conceal any weapon I may be carrying. In fact, without a permit, it is illegal to conceal the firearm. Police officers, particularly, are not to conceal their firearms unless in an undercover role. The holster used is relatively specific to the form factor of the firearm and often acts to reinforce the safety features of the firearm.

Your sidearm is always carried in Condition 1. A round is in the chamber. The safety on most police service weapons is three actions - moving the firing pin out of alignment with the primer of the round, physically blocking the hammer from striking the firing pin, and preventing the depressing of the trigger. Most also decock the weapon - meaning a double-action trigger pull is necessary to fire the weapon (the spring on the hammer/firing pin is brought out of tension).

The holster reinforces these, or in the case of some weapons - replaces the function of these multiple redundant systems. Removing the weapon from the holster, under any responsible police district, will prompt an investigation into the officer's use of force or intent to use force.

What you're asking for is just silly, for starters. It's not like the officer is brandishing a weapon. He's simply got it where it's supposed to be - where it always is.

Further - what I'm saying is that your argument is ridiculous.

I just handled a semi-auto shotgun (bullpup design) that I could easily conceal within several garments I have - with plenty of ammo. You would never know I had a firearm until I'd already gotten exactly where I wanted to before using it.

The notion that someone openly carrying a firearm is an indicator of that person's threat level is just ridiculous. For all anyone around me ever knows - I'm packing enough firepower to bring down a SWAT team. Or I'm completely unarmed with no more than a pen to use as an improvised weapon. Nothing about that changes if I wear the pen and/or firearms openly or concealed.

Obviously, if it's seen as 'unusual' or 'dangerous' to open-carry firearms, and I wish to kill someone - I will not walk around displaying a weapon. Particularly if I'm an individual with a history of crime and am a felon who is not supposed to have a firearm in the first place. I'd just concealed-carry (illegally) and kill someone (illegally) with a firearm that I acquired (illegally).

That's where all of this "no gun" stuff just approaches insanity. The people who were never a threat to begin with follow the laws that deliberately diminish their ability to defend themselves. The people who follow the laws are not the problem.

That's not what I mean. In this case, the guy regularly drops his daughter off. Meaning, this isn't just some one-time occurrence that be brushed off. If he's there every day with generally the same people, then he's just being inconsiderate. A car is a big thing, there's plenty of ways for you to have your gun, but not have it showing and making people feel uncomfortable.

He's in uniform. He's dropping his daughter off on his way to work.

Or do you not understand the concept and purpose of a police uniform?

You don't have a right, in this country, to not be offended by the rights expressly granted to others. I'm offended by the fact that liberals exist. Much less that they are given the right to assemble and spread their stupidity. They still get to do it.

I just get to turn the TV off or to go do something else (well, except for the fact that they'll eventually pass a law that I have to attend their sensitivity training, or some nonsense like that).

Generally speaking, however - I would go out of my way to show you that I have a firearm. Just to get a rise out of you. If you leave and don't ever want to do business with me in the future - I really don't consider it much of a loss. The entertainment value in driving you away was more valuable to me than the stress of having to put up with your existence.

Usually, though, most people who are nervous around firearms have just never had much experience with them. A few hours on a shooting range with them, teaching them proper handling and letting them get some trigger time in will have them shopping for one of their own.

Being afraid of a firearm is like being afraid of a pipe wrench, calculator, or cellular phone.

To be honest - I pay more attention to what someone is doing with their phone than I do to the fact some guy around me has a firearm in view. People planning to cause trouble often take pictures or video before hand. They'll survey the target for days - even weeks.

It's that kind of basic stuff that will allow you to detect threats and trouble. The weapons of any good predator are adaptive and varied. The look in their eye is what doesn't change.
 

2big

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You can understand their concern with the gun. With all that's happening nowadays with random gun killings. He should try better to make his gun less visible and better concealed, so no one feels threatened. Yes, he has the right to bear his arms. However, when you are making people uncomfortable or feel unsafe, and then refuse to atone your behavior with your rights as an excuse, then you're just a douche who doesn't deserve that right.

What the fukk? so i him being a cop must mean he will just kill people right? well dont go to a donut shop then because all the cops there will kill you.. fukkin dumbasses these days lmfao
 

Punk Hazard

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What the fukk? so i him being a cop must mean he will just kill people right? well dont go to a donut shop then because all the cops there will kill you.. fukkin dumbasses these days lmfao

When the hell did I say that? All I am saying is, if you have your gun showing, and people feel uncomfortable, then don't let it be so obvious. Have your gun, just try to be courteous.
 

Anorien16

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Hmm good question there, needed the laugh ....

As for armed officers making people uncomfortable ... we need expert opinion of Darthlawsuit here.
 

Naijakid

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That principal deserves a kunai at the back
 
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