Sauske Versus Killer Bee: An In Depth Analaysis!

[Arisonius]

Okay, I have read chapters 409, 411, 412, 413, 414, and 415. All information withing this post can be found in most of those chapters, with one exception. We will get to that later.

First: What do we know about Sauske?
We know these things before the fight:
1. He has assmbled a team, formerly known as "Snake" that consists of three other Shinobi: Karin, Jugo, and Suigetsu. I do not believe these shinobi were picked at random, I will get to that later.
2. Prior to this fight we see Sauske unleash a new "ultimate" jutsu against Itachi. I will piss off a lot of people when I come back to this later.
3. Sauske posses the Sharingan, and prior to this fight we see him use Amaterasu against Madara. The Amaterasu comes from his right eye, and the Magekenyo Sharingan he uses to do it looks EXACTLY like Itachi's.
4. He is a master of lighting elemental jutsu, and at least very skilled with Katon jutsu, I would go so far as to say he has mastered both, but prefers to use lightning.
5. Prior to this fight Itachi removed Oorchimaru's cursed seal from Sauske. This had two effects:
A) It freed Sauske from any influence Oorchimaru may have had over him. (Lets not forget that somehow, during the Itachi VS Sauske fight Oorochimaru managed to materialize himself)
B) It weakened Sauske to an extent because he can no longer rely on its power.
6. Very little time has gone by since his fight with Itachi. I will explain how I know this later.

What do we know about Killer Bee before this fight?
Absolutley nothing. We have never even heard of him before.

What do we learn about Sauske during the fight?
Chapter 411:
1. Sauske wants to test KB to see if he lives up to the hype. (This means he was told something about him prior to the fight. Can anyone find out where/what/ and by who he was told?)
2. Sauske activates the Sharingan only AFTER Killer Bee pulls out his blades. I count seven.
Chapter 412:
1. Sauske gets stabbed by 5 of Killer Bees blades and does not immediatley die. Its unclear if the wounds are life threatening, but Karin feels a need to heal him. (This may be because they needed him to stand a chance against Killer Bee, it may be because she likes him, it may be because he would have died without it.)
Chapter 413:
1. After Killer Bee unleashes his Bijuu cloak we see Sauske recall his fight with Naruto in a one frame flashback. (I tried to count the number of tails Killer Bee had, but it seemed to change scene by scene. x.X)
2. Sauske dodges initial attack by the cloaked Killer Bee.
3. We see a different Magekenyo Sharingan than we saw when he cast Amaterasu on Madara. This one is a "star" shape while the previous one was an Itachi triangle.
4. Sauske appears to use the Tuskinomi Genjutsu, like Itachi used aganst Kakashi, from this new sharingan eye. At first this led me to think that each skill had a different shape, but I will get to why that's wrong later.
Chapter 414:
1. Sauske thinks about the bonds he is forming now with "Hawk" and recals the bonds he had with Team Kakashi. He then produces a "star" shaped Magekenyo Sharingan in his left eye and proceeds to use Amaterasu. This leads me to believe, at least to begin with, Amaterasu requires an emotional trigger.
Chapter 415:
1. We learn that Sauske is still injured from his fight with Itachi, so he wasn't at 100% during hi fight with Killer Bee.

What do we learn about Killer Bee during this fight?
Chapter 409: We learn that he is the Eight Tails Jinchuuri. (Obvious, but I thought I'd include it.)
Chapter 411:
1. We see Killer Bee using Chakra Conduction to block Sauske's unstoppable Chidori Blade.
2. We learn Killer Bee is a master swordsman because he can weild (I count) seven at a time, and has no problem using Suigetsu's blade.
Chapter 412:
1. We learn that Killer Bee is very tough as he gets blasted by Jugo and doesn't seem phased.
2. Killer Bee admits that Sauske is a strong opponent and we start to see him get really serious.
3. Killer Bee tries to leave, Karin finds him out. We are not give a reason for his attempt to leave, maybe he just doesn't feel like fighting them, maybe he's beginning to get worried.
Chapter 413:
1. We see Killer Bee use Habachi Cloak.
2. Killer Bee notes Sauskes deflection of his attack and says that no one has dodged his attack since Raikage.
3. We learn that Killer Bee is immune to genjutsu because of Habachi.
4. We learn that Killer Bee is exceptionally strong because with one punch he obliterates Sauskes chest and a portion of his throat.
5. We see Killer Bee turn into Habachi. (Am I the only one who finds it weird that an 'Ox' has tentacles like an 'Octopus'? If you look closely you can see what resembles suckers)

Addendum: Somewhere in there we also learn that Killer Bee is a master of Lightning Elemental Ninjutsu, this is evidenced by his use of Elemental Conduction

That's about it for Killer Bee. I will continue this analysis with my next post.

 

[Arisonius]

So, what have we learned, and whould would win an all out fight?

In the beginning of this battle Sauske had an incomplete Magekenyo Sharingan, if the one he used against Madara was even his to begin with. And to top it off, Sauske was still recovering from his fight with Itachi.

I have to say, either way you look at it, Sauske would have won this battle. I think there is only one reason, and one reason alone that he didn't: He was trying to capture Killer Bee, not kill him, and regardless of the mindless input from Suigetsu, this makes a world of difference. Killer Bee didn't have to worry about catching Sauske, he just had to kill him. This is a much more simple and straight forward task.

I will even go so far as to say that Sauske could have beaten Killer Bee even without Magekenyo Sharingan, if he had just been out to kill him.

I will take it one step further, and piss off a lot of people, and say that he more-than-likely could have killed Itachi if Itachi hadn't had his legendary armor.

Sauske was being held back by his need to capture Killer Bee, there were no such strings involved with the aitachi fight. Sauske was out for blood. That new Ninjutsu of his utilize lightning itself. Sauske knew he needed something faster than Itachi in order to beat him (I would say Itachi is the third fastest ninja in the series if you count Minato and Madaras space/time jutsu as raw speed), and no ninja can out run lightning. Period.

So if Killer Bee and Sauske ever met up again, all he would have to do is use that technique and it would be a one shot KO.

You might say that this, especially combined with his Magekenyo Sharingan, which I think is more perfect than Itachi's, as Madara predicted it would be, makes Sauske to powerful. I would say you're right, and you're wrong.

The question is: too powerful for who?

I think that with these two fights, Sauske VS Killer Bee and Sauske VS Itachi, we are starting to see Sauske become more of an even match for Naruto so that he may once agin, some day, reclaim his rightful place as antagonist. I actually think Sauske has a little bit to go before catching up with Naruto, especially when you consider that wind nature is strong against lightning natured ninjitsu. Sauske has been favoring lightning-nature ever since he learned chidori, and we haven't seen a whole lot of fire from him.

Now on to a few other points:
I think Sauske chose his team carefully, and he was well aware of each persons unique abilities. It is unclear to me weither or not he set them up soley for the purpose of tracking and taking down Itachi, but it seems to me that there is more too it.
Karin: Chakra sensor-type. Able to sense chakra at long distances, track it, and predict its next movement. She also has the ability to heal a person by allowing them to 'suck' her chakra.
Suigetsu: Ninjitsu water-element type. Possibly able to use the 'Water Release' skill that the second Hokage was famous for. Skilled swordsman, fairly strong.
Jugo: Originator of the 'Cursed Seal' Kekkai Genkai. It appears he is unable to reproduce the seal on others himself. Posses shape-shifting like abilities. Exceptionally strong. Able to give his flesh and chakra to those who can handle the cursed seal in order to heal them, but it appears that doing so puts him in an extremely vaulnerable 'child-like' state. Add in Sauske's skills and you have one heck of a team lineup.

Please feel free to question or comment at any time. If you do question my theory please include the manga chapter where you got your evidence and I will do my best to counter you or adapt.

Intellegent questions get intellegent answers. Please do not use this thread to flame or increase your post count. Comments and thank-yous are welcome, along with criticisim.

(ex of fluff: Dude, that was long!)

 

[chocoboiiy]

hmmm i like your insight but when sasuke and killerbee fought killerbee wasnt fighting at 100% because he was just finishing his trainings that means he wasnt 100% and still beat sasuke and sasuke had help. and o yeah he wasnt fighting serious whit sasuke cause the biju even said Quote:why did you summon me when you had the upper hand anyway

conclusion:
sasuke vs killerbee 1on1 sasuke dead (at that time) or even if they faced off right now

greets

Chocoboiiy:kakashi:

 

[Xero]

Sauske was being held back by his need to capture Killer Bee, there were no such strings involved with the aitachi fight.

There were such things. Only Sasuke wasn't the one being held back, but Itachi.

I think Sauske chose his team carefully, and he was well aware of each persons unique abilities. It is unclear to me weither or not he set them up soley for the purpose of tracking and taking down Itachi, but it seems to me that there is more too it.

Of course there's a reason for choosing each member of his team! Who'd randomly gather a bunch of people that they have no idea about, and call it a team? Certainly not our genius Sasuke. Which brings me to another point on Suigetsu.

But first, if you're right about Team Hawk having objectives beyond killing Itachi then my thoughts on Suigetsu being around only to hold Kisame back are completely off. Anyway, their second objective from the start could have been to kill Madara anyway. (I know it's his objective now, but still it would be nice if somehow Sasuke's team was put together to combat another sharingan!)

And if your wrong, and Sasuke's team was formed SOLELY to prevent anyone from interfering Sasuke's fight.. then well as Kishi said, the team wasn't meant to have any special parts to play whatsoever. Cause it was Kisame who carried out team Snake's goal. Of course since there was no way in hell Sasuke could've seen that coming, Kishi did the right thing in making Sasuke seek out a team. Less everyone call out the creators for making Sasuke "uncharacteristically" unwise in his decision making.

Suigetsu: Ninjitsu water-element type. Possibly able to use the 'Water Release' skill that the second Hokage was famous for. Skilled swordsman, fairly strong.

You forgot to mention the bad blood between Kisame and himself. Sasuke knew Kisame would be more than likely to be around when he found Itachi. So Sasuke could've chosen Suigetsu to fight him, cause he knew Suigetsu wouldn't bail the moment Kisame released a bit of chakra...[/quote]

Jugo: Originator of the 'Cursed Seal' Kekkai Genkai. It appears he is unable to reproduce the seal on others himself. Posses shape-shifting like abilities. Exceptionally strong. Able to give his flesh and chakra to those who can handle the cursed seal in order to heal them, but it appears that doing so puts him in an extremely vaulnerable 'child-like' state.

One thing about Juugo, beyond his offensive capabilities, is that maybe Sasuke brought him along in case Orochimaru formed from the curse seal again and tried to take over. He would need someone 'in the know' about the curse seal if he began to lose himself.

 

[konoha s beautiful beast]

i LOVE vanilla tea

 

[Izuna Uchiha]

another stupid thread

???

What are u talking about! This tread was great!

 

[phnm]

no this thread is like bla-bla-bla and have just a little sence !!!

 

[Izuna Uchiha]

no this thread is like bla-bla-bla and have just a little sence !!!

...Look even tough it's ur opinion, and u have the right to express it wherever u want on NB, U should at lest use a bit of judgment and think that this guy has been working probably for hours to come up with this tread!!! If u have a bad opinion of his work than keep it for urself! Ur only creating trouble...This isn't really clever of urself.

 

[konoha s beautiful beast]

???

What are u talking about! This tread was great!

listen my friend.making suck threads is realy stupid.its kishis privilagiation to deside which shinobi is stronger and which weeker.to judge by abilities neji must have owned kisame 1 vs 1 but as we saw he was helped by his team and sensei and could barely survive kisames 15% clone.
so its impossible to predict who will win
no point!

 

[Izuna Uchiha]

listen my friend.making suck threads is realy stupid.its kishis privilagiation to deside which shinobi is stronger and which weeker.to judge by abilities neji must have owned kisame 1 vs 1 but as we saw he was helped by his team and sensei and could barely survive kisames 15% clone.
so its impossible to predict who will win
no point!

Ur not force to believe anything! Ur in a section of NB were anyone can predict whatever he want, and u can attack people for expressing their belief!

Like I said in my post up, it was very poor judgment of urself to say that his tread is trash! This guy work his ass of for this tread! Even if u don't believe what he think, or u dislike people that make these kind of tread, why did u had to tell him that his tread suck? U only created a useless conflict! It was really stupid of u.

Anyway what does it change for u to see in the naruto manga section one tread more or less? NOTHING!!! U just have to pass it and go post on stuff u like, no need to attack other people tread!

Thk

 

[konoha s beautiful beast]

Ur not force to believe anything! Ur in a section of NB were anyone can predict whatever he want, and u can attack people for expressing their belief!

Like I said in my post up, it was very poor judgment of urself to say that his tread is trash! This guy work his ass of for this tread! Even if u don't believe what he think, or u dislike people that make these kind of tread, why did u had to tell him that his tread suck? U only created a useless conflict! It was really stupid of u.

Anyway what does it change for u to see in the naruto manga section one tread more or less? NOTHING!!! U just have to pass it and go post on stuff u like, no need to attack other people tread!

Thk

we lose NB members who are leaving forum when they find suck senceless posts and find this forum dull! that's what we lose!

 

[Arisonius]

we lose NB members who are leaving forum when they find suck senceless posts and find this forum dull! that's what we lose!

konoha s beatiful beast - I said at the end of my post no flames. Im sorry that you are jealous of my analytical prowess, and you obviously are infiror to my own intellectual reasoning otherwise you would have posted counter arguments far better than the equivlent of "thiz trEd is teh sux."
If NB is losing members due to posts like this one its because they feel they are swimming in Kisame infested waters.

Izuna Uchiha - I thank you for defending me and my thread while I was away. For you valient efforts you will receive a +rep after I make this post.

Phmn - I won't repeat myself. Read konoha s beautiful beats reply.

Cochoboiiy and Xero I will respond to you with quotes.

 

[TOBI!]

ah! wall of text :\

 

[Arisonius]

hmmm i like your insight but when sasuke and killerbee fought killerbee wasnt fighting at 100% because he was just finishing his trainings that means he wasnt 100% and still beat sasuke and sasuke had help. and o yeah he wasnt fighting serious whit sasuke cause the biju even said Quote:why did you summon me when you had the upper hand anyway

conclusion:
sasuke vs killerbee 1on1 sasuke dead (at that time) or even if they faced off right now

greets

Chocoboiiy:kakashi:

I have so say, if I had the choice of coming into a battle aftr a fight with Itachi Uchiha or after training, I think I'd go with training it a heartbeat.

You are correct: Habachi did say "Why did you summon me when you had the upper hand" to which Killer Bee said "I got carried away"

Here is the thing, I think what Habachi is saying is something more like "If you hadn't summoned me you probarbly would not have suffered Amaterasu"

Habachi himself said that he lost a few tails defending Killer Bee from Amaterasu, and if I am correct in my guess, I don't think they will grow back.

This means, with Amaterasu in mind, I think Sauske could definatley take on Killer Bee and win if they were to hae a rematch. As a matter of fact, I hpe they do fight agan. Madara might very well send Sauske to correct his error.

 

[Arisonius]

There were such things. Only Sasuke wasn't the one being held back, but Itachi.


Of course there's a reason for choosing each member of his team! Who'd randomly gather a bunch of people that they have no idea about, and call it a team? Certainly not our genius Sasuke. Which brings me to another point on Suigetsu.

But first, if you're right about Team Hawk having objectives beyond killing Itachi then my thoughts on Suigetsu being around only to hold Kisame back are completely off. Anyway, their second objective from the start could have been to kill Madara anyway. (I know it's his objective now, but still it would be nice if somehow Sasuke's team was put together to combat another sharingan!)

And if your wrong, and Sasuke's team was formed SOLELY to prevent anyone from interfering Sasuke's fight.. then well as Kishi said, the team wasn't meant to have any special parts to play whatsoever. Cause it was Kisame who carried out team Snake's goal. Of course since there was no way in hell Sasuke could've seen that coming, Kishi did the right thing in making Sasuke seek out a team. Less everyone call out the creators for making Sasuke "uncharacteristically" unwise in his decision making.


You forgot to mention the bad blood between Kisame and himself. Sasuke knew Kisame would be more than likely to be around when he found Itachi. So Sasuke could've chosen Suigetsu to fight him, cause he knew Suigetsu wouldn't bail the moment Kisame released a bit of chakra...

One thing about Juugo, beyond his offensive capabilities, is that maybe Sasuke brought him along in case Orochimaru formed from the curse seal again and tried to take over. He would need someone 'in the know' about the curse seal if he began to lose himself.[/QUOTE]

1. You're wrong. Itachi did not hold anything back. He even went so far as to unleash the Megekenyo Sharingan's ultimate jutsu: Susanoo. If you're reffering to Itachi's being sick, you may have a point, but I think that was equaled out, maybe even then some, by the fact that Sauske had just come from a fght with Deidara and had not fully recovered. (Are we noticing a theme here? I sauske suicidal?)

2. Sauskes team was definatley formed for the purpose of killing Itachi. Now they have a new purpose.

Are you saying Sauske wants to kill Madara? I don't see any evidence for that.

3. Yes, Suigetsu and Kisame are brothers and Suigetsu wants to overthrow Kisame and take his spot as a legendary swordsman. It wasn't important to the fight, so I didn't really mention that. But I think youe spot on when you said Suigetsu was chosen specifically to keep Kisame busy, however, we also know that for some reason this is a good team. Ex: Kisame & Itachi.

4. Orochimaru only forms from the cursed seal after Sauske makes his ground. I think he chose Juugo mainly for his offensive capabilities, and its quite clear Jugo would give his life for Sauske. Loyalty is important amongst traitors.

 

[Avani]

I have so say, if I had the choice of coming into a battle aftr a fight with Itachi Uchiha or after training, I think I'd go with training it a heartbeat.

It is not like Sasuke went stright after Killerbee as soon as He left Itachi dead. He had his rest and disscussed things with Madara. Do we really know thge exact time frame? Secondly Itachi ended up giving him gifts and harming him much. That said I am not much concerned by KB being tired either. he seemed ok to me.

Habachi himself said that he lost a few tails defending Killer Bee from Amaterasu, and if I am correct in my guess, I don't think they will grow back.

This means, with Amaterasu in mind, I think Sauske could definatley take on Killer Bee and win if they were to hae a rematch. As a matter of fact, I hpe they do fight agan. Madara might very well send Sauske to correct his error.

Hachabi said he lost several imbs in KB's attempt to escape,not to save him form Sasuke. He lost one for clone use and another in which KB escaped. KB was shown coming out of a similar tanticle as left in akasuli hideout.

they didn't said anything about lims being used for getting away form Amesrasu.

I beleieve that KB is definitely stronger than Sasuke at the moment. That being in controle of the situation was mentioned for a reason - To show KB was quite strong himself.

Kishi pointed out that thing to use further in his story. That way He can take KB and his actions either way in the future. We may learn that Sasuke became stronger - that would mean a better controle over his eye powers if he beats KB next time.

I am guessing that he lleaves a few stray threads to use them in future to use when needed.

 

[Avani]

1. You're wrong. Itachi did not hold anything back. He even went so far as to unleash the Megekenyo Sharingan's ultimate jutsu: Susanoo. If you're reffering to Itachi's being sick, you may have a point, but I think that was equaled out, maybe even then some, by the fact that Sauske had just come from a fght with Deidara and had not fully recovered. (Are we noticing a theme here? I sauske suicidal?)

Itachi held back a lot. He used everythin , but did not really harmed Sasuke.
He also was not just sitting waiting for Sasuke. While Sasuke fought with Deidara, Itachi seeked out Naruto and gave some of his power To Naruto. he was tired and ill. but he was doing everything he could for Sasuke.

Itachi certainly not intended to kill Sasuke if he was making efforts to get Naruto and seek some kind of assurance from him to take care of him(Sasuke)

Itachi's character was always intiguing to me. Madara didn't tell the whole truth , but he didn't tell outright lies either.

Yes, Suigetsu and Kisame are brothers and Suigetsu wants to overthrow Kisame and take his spot as a legendary swordsman. It wasn't important to the fight, so I didn't really mention that. But I think youe spot on when you said Suigetsu was chosen specifically to keep Kisame busy, however, we also know that for some reason this is a good team. Ex: Kisame & Itachi.

4. Orochimaru only forms from the cursed seal after Sauske makes his ground. I think he chose Juugo mainly for his offensive capabilities, and its quite clear Jugo would give his life for Sauske. Loyalty is important amongst traitors.

Kisame and Suigetsu are brothers? I missed that part ....

Off course Sasuke formed a team. He learnt his lesson of team work well. Plus Orochimaru knew the best Loyal soldiers around him. Sasuke was his apprentice.

 

[konoha s beautiful beast]

konoha s beatiful beast - I said at the end of my post no flames. Im sorry that you are jealous of my analytical prowess, and you obviously are infiror to my own intellectual reasoning otherwise you would have posted counter arguments far better than the equivlent of "thiz trEd is teh sux."
If NB is losing members due to posts like this one its because they feel they are swimming in Kisame infested waters.

Izuna Uchiha - I thank you for defending me and my thread while I was away. For you valient efforts you will receive a +rep after I make this post.

Phmn - I won't repeat myself. Read konoha s beautiful beats reply.

Cochoboiiy and Xero I will respond to you with quotes.

haha you made me laugh =))))))that was good.
but are you as good as you think you are?
counter arguments?
whole your topic is a bunch of shit.noone can predict who will win,this or that.I already made topic about that where I explane what where and why.I advice you to read my last 5 threads.then you will understand everything
and as for my intelectual abilities...I am 20 years old and I am already a lawyer and working in one of the biggest firms in the country...so.....

 

[Arisonius]

We can assume that the timespan that has passed is relatively short for a few reasons.
1. The fight between Sauske and Killer Bee begins during or before the invasion of konoha arc, but not before Naruto arrives. Sauske leaves for konoha before Naruto is back in Konoha.

2. Right after Sauske leaves, Madara tells Pein to go to Konoha and capture Kyuubi. It is safe to assume that he used his time/space jutsu to get there, as he prefers this mode of transportation. The night time we see Madara he has the Habachi clon?and Pein is still in Konoha, or heading for it. Otherwise there would be no need to wait for him.

3. The strongest evidence that not awhole lot of time has elasped is tha Jugo himself says that Sauske is still suffering from his fight with Itachi.

I'm going to have to find the exact wording, but I think it was vauge enough t include the possi ility that some were used to save Killer Bee. You are right, however, at least two were lost. I will look into it when I get a better internet connection.

I persnally believe Killer Bee was in control of the sitaution up until Amaterasu was released. At that point I think the only thing that saved him was Beast Mode, although this is mosty speculation.

 

[Avani]

) It freed Sauske from any influence Oorchimaru may have had over him. (Lets not forget that somehow, during the Itachi VS Sauske fight Oorochimaru managed to materialize himself)
B) It weakened Sauske to an extent because he can no longer rely on its power.

I don't think much about its power. If Itachi was more powerful than Oro without it, Sasuke too will be fine. Hinata pointed out the Kabuto was being taken over by Oro very fast. Sasuke might have ended that way once Oro found his way out.

It only told me that Oro had not lost completely and was still hiddedn in Sasuke waiting for the right opportunity. Sasuke didn't beat him completely, just managed to hold him.

Oro had no real body of his own for a long time. He survived by taking over others. Even Itachi couldn't kill him. He trapped him in that sword for forever- I am writing form the memory.....

and need to leave now....