[Discussion] Sasuke's three doujutsu: Itachi transferred? or Sasuke awakened?

[John Constantine]

I assumed so in that the S/N is of female gender, If I am wrong on that assumption then apologies.

Then it must be.. I think i call her dude in some post.. ​

 

[twistedlink]

lol ah well, tbf Naruto is a rather geeky male zone, so it is rare to see women here, and makes sense to assume everyone here is a guy lol.

 

[Typhon]

I believe that the techniques were transfered. We've been told that every MS has its own techniques. So if it was indeed just Sasuke awakening his own MS then he would have had a different set of techniques. His Susanoo is different, but I think thats just the nature of Susanoo. Its a spiritual being that embodies the soul of its user. Itachi was a good guy, so his was shown to be like a white knight type of thing. Sasuke's soul has plunged into darkness so his Susanoo is more like a demon.

 

[Kuroi Honoo]

Kishimoto has made several script errors so far..
He scripts Madara saying that Itachi transfered all his eye techniques to Sasuke..
Some chapters later saying only Amaterasu was implanted on Sasuke..
Later on Madara says in amusement asking himself and wondering if that was Sasuke's own version of Susano'o..

In my opinion Itachi only implanted the Amaterasu trap.. All the other powers were awakened by Sasuke's Mangekyo Sharingan..​

That is another one of my points. Like how several of Madara's quotes seem off as he is either simply lying or assuming. So far, everything seems to be looking like Itachi passed his techs onto Sasuke but with Kishimoto comes the twists and turns of this manga so who is to say that they were transferred or awakened as fact when it hasn't been declared one yet? Even so, it was really interesting to see the people who agreed with my theory in terms of Sasuke awakening his own three techs.​

 

[Shunsui]

That is another one of my points. Like how several of Madara's quotes seem off as he is either simply lying or assuming. So far, everything seems to be looking like Itachi passed his techs onto Sasuke but with Kishimoto comes the twists and turns of this manga so who is to say that they were transferred or awakened as fact when it hasn't been declared one yet? Even so, it was really interesting to see the people who agreed with my theory in terms of Sasuke awakening his own three techs.​

im 99% sure that they were awakened


ps. Madara said what he thinks happend, hes not god, he cant see thrue everything.

 

[Blizzard589]

im 99% sure that they were awakened


ps. Madara said what he thinks happend, hes not god, he cant see thrue everything.

I agree. Madara didn't know about the Amaterasu trap and once it was triggered he just assumed that all the techs had been transferred. But it was most likely just a guess. I want it to be Sasuke because he's been relying on everyone else's handouts too much: Uchiha Sharingan powerup, Oro curse seal powerup, more Oro powerup, Oro absorption powerup, MS powerup from Itachi?... nah, it should be his own awakening and his own techs.

 

[John Constantine]

I agree. Madara didn't know about the Amaterasu trap and once it was triggered he just assumed that all the techs had been transferred. But it was most likely just a guess. I want it to be Sasuke because he's been relying on everyone else's handouts too much: Uchiha Sharingan powerup, Oro curse seal powerup, more Oro powerup, Oro absorption powerup, MS powerup from Itachi?... nah, it should be his own awakening and his own techs.

Kind of disagree with you in the power-ups.. He borned with Sharingan,like many others borned with speacial features.
The cursed seal was handed to him but the Orochimaru training he had to work to learn.
Orochimaru absorption he defeated Orochimaru and took advantage of his powers but once again had to achieve it.
The Mangekyo Sharingan was also achived by him even if his way to MS was made it easier by Itachi (but he also could have got it 3 years back when he could have killed Naruto)..​

 

[Blizzard589]

Kind of disagree with you in the power-ups.. He borned with Sharingan,like many others borned with speacial features.
The cursed seal was handed to him but the Orochimaru training he had to work to learn.
Orochimaru absorption he defeated Orochimaru and took advantage of his powers but once again had to achieve it.
The Mangekyo Sharingan was also achived by him even if his way to MS was made it easier by Itachi (but he also could have got it 3 years back when he could have killed Naruto)..​

Whatever. To me they're still power-ups that put him ahead of people that he shouldn't be ahead of. Sasuke's MS, if it was a transference, was basically handed to him by Itachi since Itachi had it all planned out anyway. It would be a lot cooler if the MS was actually Sasuke's own and not a hand-me-down.

 

[John Constantine]

Whatever. To me they're still power-ups that put him ahead of people that he shouldn't be ahead of. Sasuke's MS, if it was a transference, was basically handed to him by Itachi since Itachi had it all planned out anyway. It would be a lot cooler if the MS was actually Sasuke's own and not a hand-me-down.

By that thought no one is allowed to get powers..
Sasuke worked hard for most of his "power-ups" and his Mangekyo Sharingan it's his own Mangekyo Sharingan..Itachi just died purposely at his hands to make him awaken his own, Let's not forget he could have gained his MS 3 years before by killing Naruto.
Also what's up with him being ahead of guys he shouldn't?? He is the second most important character in the manga. It's only natural that in the end both Sasuke and Naruto to be the strongest ones.​

 

[Blizzard589]

By that thought no one is allowed to get powers..
Sasuke worked hard for most of his "power-ups" and his Mangekyo Sharingan it's his own Mangekyo Sharingan..Itachi just died purposely at his hands to make him awaken his own, Let's not forget he could have gained his MS 3 years before by killing Naruto.
Also what's up with him being ahead of guys he shouldn't?? He is the second most important character in the manga. It's only natural that in the end both Sasuke and Naruto to be the strongest ones.​

I understand all of that. You're misunderstanding my point. I'm not trying to say Sasuke didn't work hard. I'm just saying he had a lot of help. And coulda woulda shoulda, I don't care if he coulda killed Naruto. If he did that he would probably be blind by now anyway if we look at the rate he's goin now.

I'm trying to say this MS should be Sasuke's awakening, not Itachi's transference, because it's always cooler when a character uses his own power over a hand-me-down.

 

[John Constantine]

I understand all of that. You're misunderstanding my point. I'm not trying to say Sasuke didn't work hard. I'm just saying he had a lot of help. And coulda woulda shoulda, I don't care if he coulda killed Naruto. If he did that he would probably be blind by now anyway if we look at the rate he's goin now.

I'm trying to say this MS should be Sasuke's awakening, not Itachi's transference, because it's always cooler when a character uses his own power over a hand-me-down.

You can say it's a mixed thing.. I believe it was awakened on his own but with the fact that Itachi chose to die at his hands..
Would Itachi had been serious about his fight?? Sasuke wouldn't have MS now and most probably would be dead ATM.
but transference?? Not either..​

 

[leafeater]

I understand all of that. You're misunderstanding my point. I'm not trying to say Sasuke didn't work hard. I'm just saying he had a lot of help. And coulda woulda shoulda, I don't care if he coulda killed Naruto. If he did that he would probably be blind by now anyway if we look at the rate he's goin now.

I'm trying to say this MS should be Sasuke's awakening, not Itachi's transference, because it's always cooler when a character uses his own power over a hand-me-down.

1.) OK I get your point. From a literary point of view, it's superior for Sasuke to have awakened his own MS rather than Itachi simply transferring the MS techniques. One thing we do know is that the Sharingan development seems to be correlated with emotional distress, at least with Sasuke. Remember his fight with Haku (we didn't see the tomoe but Sasuke started to see Haku's speed), and in his fight we did see his Sharingan go from two tomoes to three to compete with a beefed up Kyuubi version of Naruto.

b.) Further, fighting and killing your own brother (even if it's a setup, Sasuke didn't know it at the time) is highly emotional. Killing your brother is probably more intense than killing your best friend (Naruto wouldn't have died because of the Kyuubi and main character no jutsu, anyway) I assume.

2.) However, Itachi set the whole thing up, probably with years of planning. Whether Sasuke awakened his MS from the fight or Itachi directly planted it in his head seems to be moot. Itachi did what it took to make sure Sasuke had the MS at the end of the fight. Further, because he could implant at least one Ameratsu in Sasuke makes it reasonable that he could implant his three MS techniques.

b.) This does not mean that this "power up" is free per se. Sasuke spent 3 years preparing for his fight with Itachi, working hard, taking drugs (if Yamato was correct), and using forbidden jutsu to improve himself. Sasuke's MS is only really "free" in the sense that Itachi forfeited the match in order to "power up" Sasuke. Thus, you can interpret Sasuke as training three years along with an epic fight against Itachi to obtain the MS, even though it wasn't his goal.

Summary:
Because Itachi setup the fight it is moot as to whether Sasuke awakened his MS or Itachi did it directly. Itachi setup and put into motion a sequence of events that lead to Sasuke having a MS, independently of whether he directly implanted it into Sasuke or set Sasuke up to awaken it. Itachi would've failed if Sasuke did not obtain the MS. Thus, for me, Itachi is the source of Sasuke's MS and not Sasuke himself, so I go with Madara telling the truth


I apologize if I repeated existing statements/posts, and I give credit to those authors. I'm eating breakfast.

 

[Blizzard589]

1.) OK I get your point. From a literary point of view, it's superior for Sasuke to have awakened his own MS rather than Itachi simply transferring the MS techniques. One thing we do know is that the Sharingan development seems to be correlated with emotional distress, at least with Sasuke. Remember his fight with Haku (we didn't see the tomoe but Sasuke started to see Haku's speed), and in his fight we did see his Sharingan go from two tomoes to three to compete with a beefed up Kyuubi version of Naruto.

b.) Further, fighting and killing your own brother (even if it's a setup, Sasuke didn't know it at the time) is highly emotional. Killing your brother is probably more intense than killing your best friend (Naruto wouldn't have died because of the Kyuubi and main character no jutsu, anyway) I assume.

2.) However, Itachi set the whole thing up, probably with years of planning. Whether Sasuke awakened his MS from the fight or Itachi directly planted it in his head seems to be moot. Itachi did what it took to make sure Sasuke had the MS at the end of the fight. Further, because he could implant at least one Ameratsu in Sasuke makes it reasonable that he could implant his three MS techniques.

b.) This does not mean that this "power up" is free per se. Sasuke spent 3 years preparing for his fight with Itachi, working hard, taking drugs (if Yamato was correct), and using forbidden jutsu to improve himself. Sasuke's MS is only really "free" in the sense that Itachi forfeited the match in order to "power up" Sasuke. Thus, you can interpret Sasuke as training three years along with an epic fight against Itachi to obtain the MS, even though it wasn't his goal.

Summary:
Because Itachi setup the fight it is moot as to whether Sasuke awakened his MS or Itachi did it directly. Itachi setup and put into motion a sequence of events that lead to Sasuke having a MS, independently of whether he directly implanted it into Sasuke or set Sasuke up to awaken it. Itachi would've failed if Sasuke did not obtain the MS. Thus, for me, Itachi is the source of Sasuke's MS and not Sasuke himself, so I go with Madara telling the truth


I apologize if I repeated existing statements/posts, and I give credit to those authors. I'm eating breakfast.

Wow, I didn't expect such a well thought out argument in response to what i said. And while it doesn't change my opinion of how it should be, you've proven that it really doesnt matter since Itachi fulfilled his goal anyway.

Enjoy your breakfast xd

 

[Kuroi Honoo]

I got to clear up that I don't or wont say that I believe Madara was telling the truth in all aspects of his story that he told Sasuke, but rather I will say that it makes sense through Itachi's actions that the techs were passed down. Sasuke has a much different looking Susanoo I will agree, and maybe he his own dark ora is creating a different version of the tech but I look at this like; Itachi gave his techs to Sasuke save for the weapons or possibly Sasuke has yet to reveal them, or Sasuke has an incomplete Susanoo and with out those weapons that is how it appears.

Its fine, you cleared your name lol Well like I've said before that it all does seem to point towards Itachi passing Sasuke the three techs but even so there are just too many doubts that have been laid by Kishi himself. Now, all of your theories seem very logical and I don't disagree with any of it as none of it has been confirmed as of yet including my theories for that matter. Although, where you provide as much logic and sense, I just can't be swayed the other way.

Sasuke has shown some interesting new developments in his repitoire, he just might have his own ability to form his Susanno as he has shown that not only can he cast Amaterasu but he can seal it back up as well as busting out the tsukiyomi all easily and shit. However Itachi had to anticipate his brother not particularly liking the fact that Itachi and the rest of his family suffered rediculously horrible fates while the people responsible were still alive and kicking with the truth barried and wanted to be kept hidden by Danzo and his team of scheming elders, those two old and always nagging ninja of the leaf. With that said I believe that Itachi may have had a fail safe plan as well and not just in Naruto but in not handing the weapons that he had equipped with Susanoo to Sasuke as well, as this would make things troubledome for anyone who faced him, I mean look at Itachi when he was broken, bruised, and diseased. Dying from all this and then turn around and be virtually invincible once he casted this Jutsu. Itachi was a genuis who wished for his brother to have the glory of revitalizing the Uchiha clan in the ninja world so he could have very well chosen not to give Sasuke those two majestic tools after seeing the Darkness in his brothers heart although it just an opinion I don't feel i'm too far from the truth on this one.

This debate can definitely go either way as we both have list logical possibilities for this situation. Okay, first off lets take your quote "as well as busting out the tsukiyomi all easily and shit" when did this happen? Um...let me think maybe your referring to the Kirabi/Shi fight ne? Though, there is something wrong with this and not only you but I've seen this many times before where other people have said the same thing. There is only one problem, we can't say that he used Tsukuyomi as a fact because it hasn't been proven. I sure can see why many people presume that he has it or has used it due to needing it in order to activate Susanoo, he should I don't deny that or else how has he been able to initiate Susanoo? I understand, but even so we all saw him use what we can assume to be Tsukuyomi on Kirabi/Shi. We can only assume that it was that doujutsu as there is a great possibility that he just used his regular Sharingan genjutsu but this did intrigue so I went and checked it out and this is the result, lets take a look at these pages below:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Okay never has Sasuke said out loud "I've just finished casting Tsukuyomi on you" but he doesn't have too as first off on the first page provided we see Sasuke activating Mangekyou then on the second page we see Kirabi caught in something that looks very similar to what Tsukuyomi unleashes. Afterward, he is covering his eye in a little distress from the activation. Although if this was his regular genjutsu like he used against Itachi for example then he should have activated Sharingan instead and after usage he wouldn't be covering his eye in pain as seen from the battle with Itachi (the genjutsu war). So where it hasn't been confirmed, we can acknowledge that he did use it and if I'm wrong I will admit to it hands down. I have to give you the right of way on this one. Now let us break apart Shi's situation...

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Alright, the first page we can see Sasuke initiating the genjutsu whether it be regular or Tsukuyomi but this time he has Sharingan activated where as he activated Mangekyou against Kirabi. Next page, we see something that also looks very similar to that of Tsukuyomi's effects but done by the Sharingan? No it isn't possible so it can only be regular genjutsu or it could be something else like Sakki (Bloodthirsty/Lust for blood) which if you remember Orochimaru has done this to Sasuke and Sakura back in the forest of death for example. Just take a look at this for comparison:

You must be registered for see links

Sakki occurs when the user leaks out their pure intent to kill and have it affect the opponent and or any others that may be around. Which can paralyze and if if the intent is strong enough it can also give the opponent(s) visions of their own horrid death. By all of this I mean to say that Sasuke could have easily exerted this, just as Sharingan genjutsu or Tsukuyomi are possible. This one has a hole where we can't say that it is that doujutsu as it could be the other two and so this is what seemingly happened to Shi in my opinion.

I agree Madara has not been shown doing anything special with the Sharingan save for his mysterious Jutsu no one can figure out ( if that's even an eye tech from his Sharingan). So again I say the techs are very rare and my reasoning is that no one and I mean no one has ever been seen or read about performing these techs even the SO6P. Itachi and Sasuke are in a league of their own with what they can do with their MS and so it could be said that they alone have the ability within them to perform the tech, Madara speaking on Sasuke's version because of the difference between them that doesn't totally suggest that there are others who have used Susanoo or any of the eye techs for that matter.

Okay, you have made reasonable points as always and even though I've used this before I have to say it again because it is vital for this debate. Madara's quote where he says "A Sharingan that can activate even Susanoo is a rarity" let us take this apart. This is exactly like what Kenshin was saying that Madara's quotes are with errors and I agree with him because this one in particular makes no sense. He is saying it like all Uchiha have the possibility to awaken Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Susanoo with the exception of it being rare but not impossible. Check this out below:

You must be registered for see links

This one here is the worst one of them all where Madara quotes "A massive-scale genjutsu, projecting my own eyes upon the moon's surface. The Infinite Tsukuyomi". I didn't post this in my thread because I had somehow forgot about this. Although, today I checked in to it and observed very important details that I had to bring up. Now, in other words, he is saying that his eyes with the Mugen Tsukuyomi will project from the moon, meaning Madara should already possess it. How? You and the other people who disagree with me, say that Itachi transferred these three doujutsu which are only exclusive to him but then Madara has Tsukuyomi? Fine, it isn't the regular technique but none the less it is a level up from the original and only Itachi should be able to activate it as this tech "supposedly" only belongs to him. If this comes out to be true then this must mean that Madara has the same three techs as Sasuke/Itachi and what you said about all the other Uchiha members were not seen having/using these doujustu would be inaccurate as they could have awakened them secretly. For all we know, a few could have had it and kept it quiet without Madara knowing and didn't get to use it because of how sly and professional Itachi/Madara were the night of the massacre. Of course, none of this is factual but it can turn out to be true/fact later on.

Thank you too main for the good convo, not too many people can or want to get into as dep of debates as we tend to often do and I appreciate that. We will see soon though which one of us was more accurate in what we believ to be the case in this whole mystery of the Sharingan we've got going on.

Douitashimashite, you said it! We do tend to have these almost endless debate wars lol Yes I can't wait to see who was more closer.​

 

[Kuroi Honoo]

im 99% sure that they were awakened


ps. Madara said what he thinks happend, hes not god, he cant see thrue everything.

Arigatou, that is one thing I've tried to point out that Madara seemed to assume and so then he wasn't exactly sure himself which leaves me to side with Sasuke awakening his own three doujutsu. Itachi/Madara's massacring the clan has left us without knowing if a few/most or all knew the three techs. Plus, Madara wanting to use his Mugen Tsukuyomi seems weird because shouldn't he have Tsukuyomi as well and if indeed he does then I would presume to think that he has all three. Again these are all opinionated/theories of mine.​

 

[Kuroi Honoo]

1.) OK I get your point. From a literary point of view, it's superior for Sasuke to have awakened his own MS rather than Itachi simply transferring the MS techniques. One thing we do know is that the Sharingan development seems to be correlated with emotional distress, at least with Sasuke. Remember his fight with Haku (we didn't see the tomoe but Sasuke started to see Haku's speed), and in his fight we did see his Sharingan go from two tomoes to three to compete with a beefed up Kyuubi version of Naruto.

b.) Further, fighting and killing your own brother (even if it's a setup, Sasuke didn't know it at the time) is highly emotional. Killing your brother is probably more intense than killing your best friend (Naruto wouldn't have died because of the Kyuubi and main character no jutsu, anyway) I assume.

2.) However, Itachi set the whole thing up, probably with years of planning. Whether Sasuke awakened his MS from the fight or Itachi directly planted it in his head seems to be moot. Itachi did what it took to make sure Sasuke had the MS at the end of the fight. Further, because he could implant at least one Ameratsu in Sasuke makes it reasonable that he could implant his three MS techniques.

b.) This does not mean that this "power up" is free per se. Sasuke spent 3 years preparing for his fight with Itachi, working hard, taking drugs (if Yamato was correct), and using forbidden jutsu to improve himself. Sasuke's MS is only really "free" in the sense that Itachi forfeited the match in order to "power up" Sasuke. Thus, you can interpret Sasuke as training three years along with an epic fight against Itachi to obtain the MS, even though it wasn't his goal.

Summary:
Because Itachi setup the fight it is moot as to whether Sasuke awakened his MS or Itachi did it directly. Itachi setup and put into motion a sequence of events that lead to Sasuke having a MS, independently of whether he directly implanted it into Sasuke or set Sasuke up to awaken it. Itachi would've failed if Sasuke did not obtain the MS. Thus, for me, Itachi is the source of Sasuke's MS and not Sasuke himself, so I go with Madara telling the truth


I apologize if I repeated existing statements/posts, and I give credit to those authors. I'm eating breakfast.

Domo arigatou to you and Kenshin Himura for the reps. I am honored and appreciate it to the highest degree and I also thank you both for being a part of my thread by posting your opinions/theories. As always you both bring logic and phenomenal points to the table, may I add and thanks again ^.^​

 

[Dtoxxdasavvyone]

Its fine, you cleared your name lol Well like I've said before that it all does seem to point towards Itachi passing Sasuke the three techs but even so there are just too many doubts that have been laid by Kishi himself. Now, all of your theories seem very logical and I don't disagree with any of it as none of it has been confirmed as of yet including my theories for that matter. Although, where you provide as much logic and sense, I just can't be swayed the other way.



This debate can definitely go either way as we both have list logical possibilities for this situation. Okay, first off lets take your quote "as well as busting out the tsukiyomi all easily and shit" when did this happen? Um...let me think maybe your referring to the Kirabi/Shi fight ne? Though, there is something wrong with this and not only you but I've seen this many times before where other people have said the same thing. There is only one problem, we can't say that he used Tsukuyomi as a fact because it hasn't been proven. I sure can see why many people presume that he has it or has used it due to needing it in order to activate Susanoo, he should I don't deny that or else how has he been able to initiate Susanoo? I understand, but even so we all saw him use what we can assume to be Tsukuyomi on Kirabi/Shi. We can only assume that it was that doujutsu as there is a great possibility that he just used his regular Sharingan genjutsu but this did intrigue so I went and checked it out and this is the result, lets take a look at these pages below:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Okay never has Sasuke said out loud "I've just finished casting Tsukuyomi on you" but he doesn't have too as first off on the first page provided we see Sasuke activating Mangekyou then on the second page we see Kirabi caught in something that looks very similar to what Tsukuyomi unleashes. Afterward, he is covering his eye in a little distress from the activation. Although if this was his regular genjutsu like he used against Itachi for example then he should have activated Sharingan instead and after usage he wouldn't be covering his eye in pain as seen from the battle with Itachi (the genjutsu war). So where it hasn't been confirmed, we can acknowledge that he did use it and if I'm wrong I will admit to it hands down. I have to give you the right of way on this one. Now let us break apart Shi's situation...

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Alright, the first page we can see Sasuke initiating the genjutsu whether it be regular or Tsukuyomi but this time he has Sharingan activated where as he activated Mangekyou against Kirabi. Next page, we see something that also looks very similar to that of Tsukuyomi's effects but done by the Sharingan? No it isn't possible so it can only be regular genjutsu or it could be something else like Sakki (Bloodthirsty/Lust for blood) which if you remember Orochimaru has done this to Sasuke and Sakura back in the forest of death for example. Just take a look at this for comparison:

You must be registered for see links

Sakki occurs when the user leaks out their pure intent to kill and have it affect the opponent and or any others that may be around. Which can paralyze and if if the intent is strong enough it can also give the opponent(s) visions of their own horrid death. By all of this I mean to say that Sasuke could have easily exerted this, just as Sharingan genjutsu or Tsukuyomi are possible. This one has a hole where we can't say that it is that doujutsu as it could be the other two and so this is what seemingly happened to Shi in my opinion.



Okay, you have made reasonable points as always and even though I've used this before I have to say it again because it is vital for this debate. Madara's quote where he says "A Sharingan that can activate even Susanoo is a rarity" let us take this apart. This is exactly like what Kenshin was saying that Madara's quotes are with errors and I agree with him because this one in particular makes no sense. He is saying it like all Uchiha have the possibility to awaken Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Susanoo with the exception of it being rare but not impossible. Check this out below:

You must be registered for see links

This one here is the worst one of them all where Madara quotes "A massive-scale genjutsu, projecting my own eyes upon the moon's surface. The Infinite Tsukuyomi". I didn't post this in my thread because I had somehow forgot about this. Although, today I checked in to it and observed very important details that I had to bring up. Now, in other words, he is saying that his eyes with the Mugen Tsukuyomi will project from the moon, meaning Madara should already possess it. How? You and the other people who disagree with me, say that Itachi transferred these three doujutsu which are only exclusive to him but then Madara has Tsukuyomi? Fine, it isn't the regular technique but none the less it is a level up from the original and only Itachi should be able to activate it as this tech "supposedly" only belongs to him. If this comes out to be true then this must mean that Madara has the same three techs as Sasuke/Itachi and what you said about all the other Uchiha members were not seen having/using these doujustu would be inaccurate as they could have awakened them secretly. For all we know, a few could have had it and kept it quiet without Madara knowing and didn't get to use it because of how sly and professional Itachi/Madara were the night of the massacre. Of course, none of this is factual but it can turn out to be true/fact later on.



Douitashimashite, you said it! We do tend to have these almost endless debate wars lol Yes I can't wait to see who was more closer.​

What up main once again juicy stuff! I thank you for entertaining my theories and opinions and will indulge you by some more debate.

Although I would have to say your points are credible and of course potentially possible I have to stick with my guns on this. Sasuke may not have been qouted saying tsukiyomi but didn't Itachi use it on Sasuke during the time he tried to swipe Naruto when Jiraiya was with him I can't be sure? Also Sasuke used a genjutsu on a shinobi when he wanted to find out what KB looked like you might want to look into that as well as this may be more credible in terms of evidence. Madara seems to always have his tricks up his sleeve and his not displaying any ocular powers thus far may be a pivital part in his all so clever rousse. I say no one has been seen or read using it other than Itachi and Sasuke because that is fact but again that doesn't mean no one else will surface having displayed the same three techs were discussing. Madara very well may have the abilities but why would he say he wanted Sasuke for his rare ability in using the Susano?

After Itachi shows himself in the next couple of mangas we will hopefully have some more pieces to the puzzle but until then I see Itachi having out together some unimaginablecounter measures from beyond the grave. and I mentioned this in another post, try this on for size. Susano inhibits the characteristics of it's casters chakra thus being the reasonm behind the difference in the two Susano's Itachi was honorable and valiant having a chivalrous persona hence the knight like Susano, and Sasuke being lied to about his family tragedy and made to believe the darkness he was enveloped was all his brothers doing only to find out his brother was the reason he was still alive and still cared deeply for him so Sasuke has a much darker and morrbid kind of persona. I give Sasuke credit for doing what he has with the newly acquired powers but I can't help but to think Itachi may have left those weapons out of Sasuke's reach purposefully. Itachi has planned his elaborate death and infiltration of the most deadly group of nin in the naruto history so far and was able to forsee future events even in death so I wont discredit him and say he didn't bless his brother with these incredible techs, but I will say after being given the techs Sasuke created his own way of wielding them

 

[Kuroi Honoo]

Amaterasu requires a large amount of Chakra, in which sasuke did not have when tobi was patching him up.

This is news to me, I mean I didn't know that it requires chakra to use Amaterasu, let alone such an amount as you described. I have seen that to have the Sharingan activated, it takes very little chakra and I am unsure if this applies to the Mangekyou. Although, if it costs the Sharinagan then it probably does so for Mangekyou as well, how much I cannot say either. Now, for activating Amaterasu whether it requires chakra or not, I am not sure. Do you have evidence of this or is it just an assumption of yours? I became interested so I looked around for the databook page on this doujutsu and this is what I found out, please do take a look:

You must be registered for see links

I observed the entire page and never saw nothing of the sort that said the user must use a vast amount of chakra in order to activate this eye technique.

You must be registered for see links

This is the original untranslated Japanese version just in case you had doubts of what I was posting.

If you can provide something better than what I have in terms of proving this matter than I'll gladly accept it.​

 

[Kuroi Honoo]

What up main once again juicy stuff! I thank you for entertaining my theories and opinions and will indulge you by some more debate.

Although I would have to say your points are credible and of course potentially possible I have to stick with my guns on this. Sasuke may not have been qouted saying tsukiyomi but didn't Itachi use it on Sasuke during the time he tried to swipe Naruto when Jiraiya was with him I can't be sure? Also Sasuke used a genjutsu on a shinobi when he wanted to find out what KB looked like you might want to look into that as well as this may be more credible in terms of evidence. Madara seems to always have his tricks up his sleeve and his not displaying any ocular powers thus far may be a pivital part in his all so clever rousse. I say no one has been seen or read using it other than Itachi and Sasuke because that is fact but again that doesn't mean no one else will surface having displayed the same three techs were discussing. Madara very well may have the abilities but why would he say he wanted Sasuke for his rare ability in using the Susano?

After Itachi shows himself in the next couple of mangas we will hopefully have some more pieces to the puzzle but until then I see Itachi having out together some unimaginablecounter measures from beyond the grave. and I mentioned this in another post, try this on for size. Susano inhibits the characteristics of it's casters chakra thus being the reasonm behind the difference in the two Susano's Itachi was honorable and valiant having a chivalrous persona hence the knight like Susano, and Sasuke being lied to about his family tragedy and made to believe the darkness he was enveloped was all his brothers doing only to find out his brother was the reason he was still alive and still cared deeply for him so Sasuke has a much darker and morrbid kind of persona. I give Sasuke credit for doing what he has with the newly acquired powers but I can't help but to think Itachi may have left those weapons out of Sasuke's reach purposefully. Itachi has planned his elaborate death and infiltration of the most deadly group of nin in the naruto history so far and was able to forsee future events even in death so I wont discredit him and say he didn't bless his brother with these incredible techs, but I will say after being given the techs Sasuke created his own way of wielding them

Well your welcome as always I guess it goes both ways, ne? ^.^

Thank you again, I feel the same way, you too have thought up very well points which I find plausible. I would expect nothing less out of you, my friend. You are right about Itachi using Tsukuyomi quietly. I overlooked the Kirabi situation, take a look:

You must be registered for see links

He opened his right eye.

You must be registered for see links

Here we have Karin saying that Sasuke is using genjutsu

You must be registered for see links

Through this ?genjutsu? he gets the answers needed.

So even though this is another situation where it still isn't confirmed, it definitely does appear as Sasuke is using Tsukuyomi and I would like to thank you for pointing this out.

I'm pleased to see that you acknowledged what I was trying to point out. Like you said, it is a fact that only Sasuke and Itachi were the only ones to display the tree doujutsu as no no other Uchiha or implanted Sharingan eye as of yet has been seen using the three in the manga. Although, it doesn't mean that they are the only ones as well as Madara himself may contain them. Now, that is a good question and I can see your doubts, um...well he didn't exactly say it like that. You meant his quote from this page? Take a look below:

You must be registered for see links

He says he didn't want a pair of eyes that can activate Susanoo go to waste but he could have just said that for no real apparent reason as he is always having something up his sleeve. He could have said that simply because he felt like it or just wanted the Kages to hear that. He then says that he wanted him to train his eyes up further so maybe he wants him to train as much as possible so that he'd be able to sustain Gedou Mazou like I've said before or maybe he has future plans for Sasuke's eyes in terms of taking them for his personal usage.

I know, I can hardly wait for the next chapter to come out. It is taking forever now, its going on two weeks, what torture right? Yes, we will hopefully have our answer on the whole Itachi returning situation. You make a well valid point there, I can see this as a possible fact as to why their Susanoo look different via their own personality and also how they both activate their Tsukuyomi with the opposite eye. Although, with my theory it could very well be the other way around in the terms of having a different way of activation or appearance because it is his own techs rather than being passed down. It can really go either way lol Thanks for the compliment on Sasuke's handling on these doujutsu ^.^

I like how we both can stick to our own opinion no matter what and eventually we will have our answer and see which one was right or wrong and If I was wrong then I will gladly accept it. I just think my theory is possible so until then...​

 

[zabuzamistboy]

To those who haven't read this
yet, you should its actually
pretty interesting