Sasuke's Rinnegan Genjutsu has no defense except Rinnegan (what's Naruto's answer?)

[frozen5]

1) Naruto wasn't the caster of the genjutsu so his words are irrelevant.

2) Naruto didn't say it was the same genjutsu.

3) The effects of the genjutsus were completely different which heavily implies that they were different.

4) Sasuke's rinnegan appeared in the eyes of the bijuu while it didn't appear in Sakura's eyes.

5) I don't think that was a Viz scan.

sakura fell unconcious after she got hit by it.. plus you are comparing effects of the jutsu on the bijuus to sakura.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Nothing.

Sasuke eye should be capable of producing same quality genjutsu as IT albeit not on world wide scale.

IT trapped bee who is perfect jin so i dont see naruto resisting it.

Maybe thats why never targeted.

 

[frozen5]

Nothing.

Sasuke eye should be capable of producing same quality genjutsu as IT albeit not on world wide scale.

IT trapped bee who is perfect jin so i dont see naruto resisting it.

Maybe thats why never targeted.

nothing can be on I.T. scale its either it I.T or not....not only could I.T be broken but OP posted a scan claiming naruto can be affect by I.T because a character stopped him...

was bee even a jin when he got affected? i cant remeber him being a jin then..

 

[Sharingan King]

sakura fell unconcious after she got hit by it.. plus you are comparing effects of the jutsu on the bijuus to sakura.

Her eyes are visible for a short while before she goes unconcious.

It's obviously not the same genjutsu.

Sasuke used a genjutsu and she fell down unconcious.

He used one on the bijuu and they were only paralysed.

Common sense would tell you that if it was the same genjutsu then Sakura would have simply stood up motionless with rinnegan in her eyes.

It doesn't take much to deduce that the genjutsu used was different, especially since the effects were entirely different.

 

[Transcendence]

Nothing.

Sasuke eye should be capable of producing same quality genjutsu as IT albeit not on world wide scale.

IT trapped bee who is perfect jin so i dont see naruto resisting it.

Maybe thats why never targeted.

Just to correct this, Bee wasn't a Jin when IT was casted. Remember, Madara was Jin at the time and had already extracted Hachibi.

 

[closecombat1254]

What? Partner method forces chakra into the user thus allowing them to leave the genjutsu since the chakra is disrupted. Genjutsu Kai exerts chakra from the body, similarly allowing the chakra flow to be disrupted. If Sasuke is extracting chakra from the Bijuu, then their chakra flow should also be affected. Similarly to Danzo's seal, Sasuke escaped it by expelling a large amount of chakra ie Susano, and thus broke it. Same would apply here, you exert a large chakra amount (or lose it in this case) and thus should also be freed from control, however, that's not the case. Similar to Tsukiyomi, it is unbreakable by elitist Uchiha (or in this case, a Rinnegan user), seemingly, this is the same here, not to mention it also carries KA traits which allow it to work without eye contact. I believe Jiraiya made this clear here:

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In other words, to stop your chakra flow, you must use more power (chakra) to disrupt the flow of the chakra, thus cancelling the genjutsu. However, it was shown that Sasuke absorbing the massive amount of power (or chakra) didn't have the Bijuu escape genjutsu, thus its immune to Genjutsu Kai.

It's a suggestion, conjecture, and it makes some sense imo. Hypothetically, both parties could've won the having done things differently. However, neither did, though this remains one of the things that could've been used yet wasn't, similarly to Naruto's chakra arms, assuming they received a massive boost from SM/Rikudo chakra and other new Bijuus (obvious).

U miss the part were if your ina genjutus that person had control over your chakra network so

 

[KidGamer65]

What? Partner method forces chakra into the user thus allowing them to leave the genjutsu since the chakra is disrupted. Genjutsu Kai exerts chakra from the body, similarly allowing the chakra flow to be disrupted. If Sasuke is extracting chakra from the Bijuu, then their chakra flow should also be affected. Similarly to Danzo's seal, Sasuke escaped it by expelling a large amount of chakra ie Susano, and thus broke it. Same would apply here, you exert a large chakra amount (or lose it in this case) and thus should also be freed from control, however, that's not the case. Similar to Tsukiyomi, it is unbreakable by elitist Uchiha (or in this case, a Rinnegan user), seemingly, this is the same here, not to mention it also carries KA traits which allow it to work without eye contact. I believe Jiraiya made this clear here:

Genjutsu Kai was stated to stop the chakra flow by disrupting your chakra with more power, thus breaking Genjutsu. Don't know where the bold came from, but it wasn't stated or implied. Ever. So no, taking chakra from the Bijuu doesn't disrupt their chakra in any way, shape or form. Partner Method is the same as Genjutsu Kai, except someone else is stopping and disturbing your flow.

Danzo's seal isn't Genjutsu, so no its not similar or even applicable here.

The underlined isn't supported, at all. Sasuke's Genjutsu can be broken via normal methods.

In other words, to stop your chakra flow, you must use more power (chakra) to disrupt the flow of the chakra, thus cancelling the genjutsu. However, it was shown that Sasuke absorbing the massive amount of power (or chakra) didn't have the Bijuu escape genjutsu, thus its immune to Genjutsu Kai.

Except chakra absorption isn't the same as stopping the chakra flow with more power. The two don't even begin to correlate.

It's a suggestion, conjecture, and it makes some sense imo. Hypothetically, both parties could've won the having done things differently. However, neither did, though this remains one of the things that could've been used yet wasn't, similarly to Naruto's chakra arms, assuming they received a massive boost from SM/Rikudo chakra and other new Bijuus (obvious).

Whatever wasn't used is useless in combat against each other, its that simple. No party could have won by doing anything differently, in response to one doing something different, the other would have been able to counter. Naruto didn't use his chakra arms, because by common sense and feats, Kurama Avatar>>>Chakra ARms.

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

The Manga answered this question... some people in denial of naruto going all out are just hilarious to me, but I'll let the stupidity speak for itself, as to the op: It's simple, naruto is soloed. Rinnigan genjutsu is on a whole nother level, and naruto would have been toast if it weren't for sasuke.

I know these facts make the naruto fans (especially the fanboys) very angry, but too bad for them it's a manga fact.

 

[Xlad]

Spoiler

We learned during the casting of Mugen Tsukuyomi that Rinnegan genjutsu can only countered by another Rinnegan, and that Sasuke was protected against it. The manga also made it clear that Naruto wasn't protected against Mugen Tsukuyomi (despite having Six Paths Sage Mode and Kurama):

Spoiler

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In chapter 699 we see that Sasuke has to release the Bijuu from the genjutsu that placed on them:

Spoiler

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First consider the traumas that the Bijuu experienced. They had Sasuke forcibly taking chakra from them. They were situated in the epicenter of a continental level explosion. On top of that, they then fell from one mile up in the air. Despite all that, they were still under Sasuke's Rinnegan genjutsu. This makes two things clear: firstly that physical trauma and the disruption of a person's chakra system aren't sufficient in getting a person out of Rinnegan genjutsu. Secondly that Sasuke's statement regarding Rinnegan genjutsu is correct; only a Rinnegan can break Rinnegan genjutsu.

This leaves the question, what exactly is Naruto's answer to Sasuke's Rinnegan genjutsu? The perfect Jinchuriki method of breaking out of genjutsu depends on the ability for genjutsu to be broken by simply disturbing the chakra of the victim. With Sasuke's Rinnegan we see that simply isn't sufficient...so what does Naruto do if Sasuke places him under genjutsu? For those thinking that he can simply avoid eye contact with Sasuke, you're forgetting that Viz and takL translations confirm that Sasuke placed all Nine Bijuu under genjutsu with a single glance.....once you consider the spacial arrangement of the Bijuu around Sasuke (i.e in a circle), you realize that Sasuke didn't require eye contact with the Bijuu...

That's what you based your premises on? I remember a first you asserted that they are equal. Now you are trying prove his superiority?

- In a fight where two fights on equal grounds, if a jutsu shown before wasn't used, 99.99999999% of the time it means its useless. Nobody knows the full capabilities of Rinnegan Sasuke or Rikudou Sage Naruto.

- Based on what did it make it clear? Sasuke also asserted that he might become the world's strongest after creating the Gedo PS. Only to be stalemated by Natural Energy Compressed Naruto's dual TBBRS. There's also the fact that Tailed Beasts' accumulated chakra was needed to free everyone from MT.

- The Tailed Beast can still talk and to a certain degree, resist it. That alone already debunks it being on MT's level. There is also the fact MT casting a genjutsu that put someone in eternal sleep. There is absolutely no evidence that his genjutsu work that same way as MT. The fact that Sakura was out of it proves that.

- Then there is this rough translation of Naruto's Six Path Sage Mode having this absurd hype in terms of skills with chakra. It's a hyperbole, but it grasp the main point of Naruto being able to understand chakra's nature under Hagoromo himself.
Creds to ISKORIPS:

Six Paths Sage Mode (六道仙人モード, Rikudō Sennin Mōdo)

Sage technique/Ninjutsu used by Naruto. Most of this page is too blurry to read, so I can only translate some of it.

The big header basically says it's a gift from the ancestor of Shinobi that grants a supernatural mental state allowing for the complete, universal comprehension of all things.

From what I can make out of the main body of text, it says that this is a technique that allows the user to quickly grasp the nature of Chakra with the skill of a well-studied, highly sensitive master. It also seems to have a bunch of philosophical stuff about the Sage of Six Paths which is hard to make out because I can only read about half of it.

← Top caption says that the caster has an unconscious/automatic mastery of the Sage of Six Path's "ability to levitate" (浮遊する能力, fuyū suru nōryoku).

→ Second caption says, "Kicking a Truthseeker Orb! Surpassing Kurama Mode, his vast Chakra lets him perform this risky stunt!"

← Third caption says, "His reaction speed meets or exceeds that of Madara in his Ten Tails Jinchūriki Form. It's the height of sensory ability!"

Spoiler

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If this is correct, then that means Naruto clearly has the skills to use chakra to dispel the genjutsu Sasuke has. If one actually recalls the fundamentals of illusion counter, the basics behind Naruto and Sasuke freeing people is actually not substantially much different than the partner. Difference is that the Rinnegan is needed considering the workings of MT. Other than that, a partner (Naruto and Sasuke) and substantial amount of chakra is needed. Particularly the Tailed Beast. Killer Bee also was not a Jinchuuriki when he was caught, which is why Gyuki planned to reside in Bee once freed.

Again countering genjutsu does not in any way, shape, or form, means that his illusion will be on the same level as the opposing illusion that was cast on him. That would make Naruto's ability to cast genjutsu superior to Kurenai's since he was able to resist Itachi's Sharingan Genjutsu, whose skill is far above Kurenai's.

Just stop Lol. It's over.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Sasuke probably talking about infinite tsukuyomi , if rinnegan gejnutsu could break only other rinnegan then Nagato would be invincible and he would solo five great nations take bijuus and fulfil his plan . So no this is probably misconception. And if only rinnegan could release that genjutsu , then why Hagoromo said both power's are needed.

The RinneSharingan isn't the same as the Rinnegan.and i've seen your other post and you forget that Madara switched from Rinnegan to EMS when he put used Genjutsu on the Raikage.The only Sharingan power that could be used with normal Rinnegan is Susano'o

Where did you come up with Naruto needing Sasukes protection from IT. He could have gone out of susano without being affected.

Naruto can easily see through Sasukes genjutsu so what's the point.

Naruto has nine other bijus to break him out of it, again so what are you talking about. This thread was a fail thread which should have died since page 1.

Where do yo get he could of gone out and be fine from?And if Sasuke can Solo Glance 9 fully transformed Bijuu at the same time with absolute ease then surely he can get Naruto and a Yin Kyuubi with genjutsu.

I don't have to. As I have already explained, the victims chakra is already being disturbed, for the genjusu to be broken, there has to be a disturbance to counter the gen jutsu's disturbance. That disturbance has to come from someone who didnt cast the genjutsu to work. Also, the burden of proof is on. You're the one proposing an unproven theory. You haven't sufficiently proved that the tailed beasts were still under gen jutsu. We only saw Sasuke undoing C/T, not his gen jutsu
Also,, you should have read my edit, Sakura broke free on her own or Kakashi freed her. That effectively ends this pathetic thread
Good day sir.

There are different types of Genjutsu,Sasuke using Genjutsu on the Bijuu and Sakura deosn't mean they are the same.Sasuke wanted to take control of the Bijuu,while he just wanted Sakura to still out of the fight.

Notice how the RinneSharingan was reflected off of the Bijuus eyes,it wss like that when Tobi took control of the Kyuubi,and When Sasuke used Manda - ThevGenjutsu in Sakura was just to knock her out temporarily not control her.

And why would Sasuke use the same amount of power on Sakura as the Bijuus? Deos Sakura = 9 Bijuus?

 

[Apêx1]

Sasuke can absorb chakra without breaking the Bijuus from the genjutsu the same way Orochimaru absorbed his chakra from Kabuto without breaking him out of Izanami. You have to infuse your chakra with the victims chakra to disrupt the chakra

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. Kurama wasn't near the core, he was more outside of CT then had rocks come on top when Nagato did it while Kurama is the core so have layers of rocks on top of him and it was completely sealed. Nagato was using his CT on Kurama's lower form then he powered up to 8 tails mode so no it's not the same thing. Try looking at the second scan in OP, Kurama's eyes are normal before it closes up on Sasuke's Rinnegan so he was already out of it before that so Sasuke was freeing the Bijuus from CT only for the looks of it.



It doesn't constantly squash them, it seals them inside, they wouldn't feel the shockwaves from Naruto and Sasuke's Attack because of that and as for the fall they are really durable to take tbb from each other and not be seriously harm when it's landscape changing tbbs. You disrupt someone else's chakra flow by putting your chakra into another and do it in a high enough amount the it disrupts it. Orochimaru absorbed his chakra from Kabuto and didn't break him out of Izanami nor was that his intention.

Alive Madara did that but Edo Madara didn't, alive Madara is stronger than Edo Madara and he wasn't blind in the sense that his eye lost their power, both eyes were actually close to him, Zetsu popped up after Madara escapes the Bijuus and gave him a Rinnegan and Obito have the other a short distance away. Obito tapped into his other eye just for being near it, he was able to see through it and when he saw Rin died he leveled up both his eyes up to 3 Tomoes and gained MS.



Orochimaru doing it with Kabuto is good proof there and it was never said taking chakra would work the same way since to disrupt the genjutsu you need a stronger flow but taking chakra wouldn't increase the chakra flow but lower it

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. The genjutsu most likely wore off after the Bijuus were sealed.



Bee wasn't a perfect Jinchuuriki, he only lived because Bee cut him out via tentacle before he was taken so Bee didn't feel the shock of having the 8 tails ripped from him. That's why the 8 tails said he'll go back to Bee.

And then you realise Izanami can't be broken until you accept the rule set by the jutsu initiator [

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].

 

[adeshina365]

Nice to see that narutards (kidgamer65 etc.) are still fighting the good fight

 

[KidGamer65]

Nice to see that Adeshina is back, wanking full force to compensate for the fact that Sasuke needed the Bijuu to fight Naruto. That thread of you crying over the matter was pretty damn amusing.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Thread got solo'd by sage, TrollingSage and kg.

Absorbing chakra=/=disrupting chakra.
CT orbs protects them from physical harm.

Then there's the chance that they weren't in genjutsu when sasuke undid ct.

All in all thread is full of holes

 

[lndra]

Thread got solo'd by sage, TrollingSage and kg.

Absorbing chakra=/=disrupting chakra.
CT orbs protects them from physical harm.

Then there's the chance that they weren't in genjutsu when sasuke undid ct.

All in all thread is full of holes

I knew this from the beginning because he justifies theories based on manga facts presented with no starting form = plot holes.

He was never an educated Sasuke fan from the beginning, he was hard-wired to breathe, eat, and sleep Sasuke nonsense 24/7.

Can't trust those guys.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

We learned during the casting of Mugen Tsukuyomi that Rinnegan genjutsu can only countered by another Rinnegan, and that Sasuke was protected against it. The manga also made it clear that Naruto wasn't protected against Mugen Tsukuyomi (despite having Six Paths Sage Mode and Kurama):

Spoiler

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In chapter 699 we see that Sasuke has to release the Bijuu from the genjutsu that placed on them:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

First consider the traumas that the Bijuu experienced. They had Sasuke forcibly taking chakra from them. They were situated in the epicenter of a continental level explosion. On top of that, they then fell from one mile up in the air. Despite all that, they were still under Sasuke's Rinnegan genjutsu. This makes two things clear: firstly that physical trauma and the disruption of a person's chakra system aren't sufficient in getting a person out of Rinnegan genjutsu. Secondly that Sasuke's statement regarding Rinnegan genjutsu is correct; only a Rinnegan can break Rinnegan genjutsu.

This leaves the question, what exactly is Naruto's answer to Sasuke's Rinnegan genjutsu? The perfect Jinchuriki method of breaking out of genjutsu depends on the ability for genjutsu to be broken by simply disturbing the chakra of the victim. With Sasuke's Rinnegan we see that simply isn't sufficient...so what does Naruto do if Sasuke places him under genjutsu? For those thinking that he can simply avoid eye contact with Sasuke, you're forgetting that Viz and takL translations confirm that Sasuke placed all Nine Bijuu under genjutsu with a single glance.....once you consider the spacial arrangement of the Bijuu around Sasuke (i.e in a circle), you realize that Sasuke didn't require eye contact with the Bijuu...

You did a decent job supporting yourself, but I feel your op is filled with too many unfounded generalizations.

Sasuke doesn't use the IT like you are making it out to be lols. He has the six tomoe eye, not the nine and required Naruto to dispel the IT, because their power together equals Hagoromo's power, not separately. He used Susano'o, a power essentially equal to Naruto's Bijuu avatar to cloak himself. What makes you think could not do the same with Hagoromo's senjutsu and Kurama and the bijuus pieces, all of which are controlled sources of chakra implied to be on par with the Rinnegan since they are the other half of Hagoromo's power and also separate chakra sources?

It was never stated as an absolution that only a Rinnegan can dispel or resist another. It was Sasuke's speculation. We never got to see if Naruto could resist IT or the base rinnegan genjutsu or not because Sasuke stopped him from leaving the susano'o and for some reason did not use it on him in the fight. Then again, maybe he did but it did not work. Hamura did not possess the Rinnegan either and somehow resisted IT as well.

You didn't put into account all of Naruto's abilities. He didn't have one chakra source, he had like pieces of all the bijuus, Kurama AND Hagoromo's senjutsu. Hagoromo's senjutsu gave him the power to sense chakra. He could sense and avoid the Limbo clones from basically a reincarnated Hagoromo with all the bijuus inside him, not just an Indra reincarnation.

I don't recall them falling from the air. I recall Sasuke taking chakra from them he was in control of from the genjutsu and they being off panel afterward. That is all. And I don't see how falling would have anything to do with disrupting chakra. People have fallen from being cast with genjutsu numerous times throughout the manga and not been released from it.

Sasuke having 360 degree vision doesn't mean Naruto can't look at his eye. It just means Sasuke can look in more than one direction like the byakugan. Furthermore, the byakugan has a blind spot and as he has shown, Naruto can sense chakra coming at him with Hagoromo's senjutsu.

Last but not least, while the genjutsu WAS cast by his rinnegan, there is no guarantee it wasn't just the sharingan genjutsu as the susano'o comes from the sharingan and both Madara and Sasuke could still use it with their Rinnegan. Furthermore, he also cast amaterasu with it and it possessed six tomoe like his eternal mangekyou.

 

[Xlad]

Nice to see that narutards (kidgamer65 etc.) are still fighting the good fight

Dat concession.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Nice to see that Adeshina is back, wanking full force to compensate for the fact that Sasuke needed the Bijuu to fight Naruto. That thread of you crying over the matter was pretty damn amusing.

Wow Sasuke needed the Bijuu to fight Naruto,who had power from all the Bijuu aswell + an actual Bijuu inside him,giving him advice,and continously loading up chakra for him.Yeah,this just makes Sasuke great,but just not as great as he would be if he didn't use them.

Thread got solo'd by sage, TrollingSage and kg.

Absorbing chakra=/=disrupting chakra.
CT orbs protects them from physical harm.

Then there's the chance that they weren't in genjutsu when sasuke undid ct.

All in all thread is full of holes

If they weren't in Genjutsu then why didn't these 9 Gigantic Entities break out? The not even fully transformed Yang Kyuubi was able to break out of Pains CT.But 9 Fully transformed Bijuu didn't break out of Sasuke's CT even after a whole day.

 

[KidGamer65]

Wow Sasuke needed the Bijuu to fight Naruto,who had power from all the Bijuu aswell + an actual Bijuu inside him,giving him advice,and continously loading up chakra for him.Yeah,this just makes Sasuke great,but just not as great as he would be if he didn't use them.

I personally don't care, OP does, that's why I referenced it.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Wow Sasuke needed the Bijuu to fight Naruto,who had power from all the Bijuu aswell + an actual Bijuu inside him,giving him advice,and continously loading up chakra for him.Yeah,this just makes Sasuke great,but just not as great as he would be if he didn't use them.



If they weren't in Genjutsu then why didn't these 9 Gigantic Entities break out? The not even fully transformed Yang Kyuubi was able to break out of Pains CT.But 9 Fully transformed Bijuu didn't break out of Sasuke's CT even after a whole day.

Yang kurama wasn't in the center of pains ct, not to mention them getting their chakra drained.