[Discussion] Sasuke's forgiven?

[Kuroi Honoo]

Most of this thread was inspired/taken from the discussion between me and my friend Amixed, arigatou yo. My thread is a discussion about how Sasuke would be able to enter the village he left years ago and not be tried for his past crimes if he was turned by Naruto?s "changing abilities". I am not Kishi however I will use Gaara/Konan to help bring my point across. In my opinion they are the perfect candidates as Gaara is similar to Sasuke with the betrayal, crimes, "darkness" and damaged mind due to his forlorn past. I chose Konan for her criminal past and labels.

Now let us begin, remember how Gaara was in the past before he was changed by Naruto? After his uncle betrayed him he became unstable and decided that he would kill to make his existence known. His victims consisted of Team Shigure because Gaara claimed they looked at him the wrong way. He critically injured Lee during the Chuunin Exams and then tried to finish him but was stopped by Gai. Dosu became disillusioned after learning that Orochimaru branded the Ten no Juin upon Sasuke and that his team was a simple test for the Uchiha.

He tried to kill Gaara so he could be the one to fight and kill Sasuke in the finals but was killed instead by Gaara. Midori/Tsuba pressured Gaara to lose the match against Sasuke and due to feeling offended he killed them both. This luckily satisfied his bloodlust as he originally intended to target Shikamaru/Naruto. Gaara and his village agreed to assist Orochimaru in his invasion plan where his role lied in unleashing Shukaku in the center of the village but was unable to by the wound inflicted from Sasuke?s Chidori. Gaara?s siblings even feared him as evident when Temari covered Kankurou?s mouth to stop him from reminding Gaara about the plan because she feared that as a result, he would kill him. Even so, they both still loved him despite what he had become for he was their sibling.

He tried to kill Sasuke/Naruto while he was pursued after fleeing the Exams. Aside from his murderous desires he also had to withstand insomnia due to Shukaku completely taking over his body if he were to fall asleep (the lack of sleep can cause just to name a few symptoms psychosis, hallucinations, death etc.). In which caused him further instability and plunged him further into darkness via a burning desire to kill. Now approaching my point, wasn?t Gaara a serial killer holding no remorse and was later turned as a result to Naruto?s changing abilities? Was he not also pardoned by his village/even went as far as to become the Godaime Kazekage despite his criminal background? He never became a Nukenin unlike Sasuke as he remained in his village.

Although the crimes Gaara committed were far more extensive than the ones Sasuke committed; they mainly consisted of murder but he was still accepted by his village (as of current manga Sasuke has yet to murder anyone as it has not been confirmed whether or not the Samurai were killed or were rather only wounded). Konan can be another proper example of this as she was in a criminal organization hence Akatsuki which is only the most wanted group in all of the shinobi world and for being a member she became known as a criminal/Nukenin alike that of Sasuke?s label. After Naruto changed Nagato she chose to follow Nagato?s decision turning as well and became the leader of her village. In other words her own village pardoned/excepted her much like that of Gaara.

So in conclusion: If Konan/Gaara were able to overcome a fate of trial for murder etc. than I think Sasuke should be given the same chance if he is indeed pulled from the darkness and back into the light by Naruto, ne? Jiraiya failed to bring back his friend Orochimaru but in my opinion I believe that Naruto will be the one to succeed in this. This second half of the manga (Shippuuden) is mainly about Naruto and Sasuke. It is unraveling Naruto?s trial and errors where it comes to bringing his best friend Sasuke back.

@Haters, my advice to anybody who can?t handle Sasuke in the manga should simply cease in reading it any longer because this is the biggest plot of the whole story and it will be shown in its entirety by Kishi or bite your tongue and deal with it. Try and do this without the annoying and aggravating name calling and or anger toward the characters (e.g Sasuke, Sakura, Naruto etc.). If you have something to express then do express it in an adult manner rather than the unnecessary trollish insolence and you will then be respected/taken seriously by others.

EDIT: Sasuke indeed inflicted the fatal wound on Danzou but let us not forget that even though Danzou was the Rokudaime Hokage Kouho he was found out by Ao who would have impeached him but was interrupted by Zetsu's sudden entrance before he could prove the accusation. In other words Danzou would have most likely gotten stripped of his title/tried for his crime(s) if he was still alive. People said that Naruto should have been the one to deal with Danzou and because Sasuke was the one, it is unforgivable/he should die etc. How hypocritical is that? I understand that killing Danzou was the wrong thing to do as he should have been dealt with by Konoha but all the things he did were not justified. Likewise Sasuke?s crimes/actions were not justified given the way he went about it even though the two of them acted out of insanity. Danzou cracked when Hiruzen was given the Hokage title and Sasuke whose mind was damaged at a young age and completely snapped as the Danzou fight came to a close.​

 

[Sinister]

Cool story Bro.


But yeh I agree

 

[Typhon]

It really depends on how the rest of Sasuke's story pans out. As of now what would he be tried for? All the people he has killed have been portrayed as bad guys. Really the only people has actually killed are Danzo and Orochimaru, two people who I believe Konoha weren't big fans of.

But there are still some problems with him that separate him from Gaara/Konan. Sasuke is doing what he is doing at his own free will. Gaara and his village had attacked Konoha under the orders of their "Kazekage" who was actually Orochimaru. After the conflict had been settled the leaf and the sand agreed that the sand had just been following orders from their "kazekage" which is something any shinobi would be expected to do. So in that conflict the blame fell upon Orochimaru's shoulders rather than Gaara's.

As for Konan she was never in the position to be tried. After Nagato's death the only person from Konoha she came in contact with was Naruto. So the choice not to take Konan and put her on trial was Naruto's decision, and not Konoha's. If Konoha had captured her she may have been put on trial. But still, she was just following Nagato's orders as well.

Who's orders are Sasuke following? He defected and joined Orochimaru at his own free will. He then attacked Kirabi following Madara's orders, but then he attacked the Kage meeting in his quest to find Danzo. You may say he was manipulated here by Madara, but regardless of Madara's influence Sasuke was still going to attack Danzo. When Sasuke wanted to do this, Danzo was the Hokage. Sasuke wanted to attack, and kill, the Hokage at his own free will.

 

[siyo]

Firstly, i think sasuke has positioned himself to be the main villain of the manga and in the last few weeks he has moved from being a criminal(but not evil) to be in a complete state of hatred/darkness aka evil.After he is done with his revenge he may think about what could have been,but he will know deep within himself that he could never return.

Secondly i don`t think you can compare him with gaara or konan.Yes they are not seen enemies anymore but still different circumstances.Gaara never knew better he was treated like a weapen of mass destruction.Therefore nobody emotionally connected with him so he didn t have a choice and he did what was asked of him. And When he did get the chance he chose good while sasuke chose to walk the evil path. Nobody made that choice for sasuke but himself.

Konan just shifted teams because her master pain did. Pain saw the " truth" and he believed in naruto,and since she had faith in her master she accepted his wisdom.So now they respect each other.

 

[Last Arcanum]

It really depends on how the rest of Sasuke's story pans out. As of now what would he be tried for? All the people he has killed have been portrayed as bad guys. Really the only people has actually killed are Danzo and Orochimaru, two people who I believe Konoha weren't big fans of.

Firstly I have to say you?ve made a good post and you've made several points I agree with. I don't think Sasuke killed Orochimaru -- he absorbed him and used him to further continue his path of revenge. I think if anyone should be accounted with Orochimaru's death it should be Itachi, or at least partially.

But there are still some problems with him that separate him from Gaara/Konan. Sasuke is doing what he is doing at his own free will. Gaara and his village had attacked Konoha under the orders of their "Kazekage" who was actually Orochimaru. After the conflict had been settled the leaf and the sand agreed that the sand had just been following orders from their "kazekage" which is something any shinobi would be expected to do. So in that conflict the blame fell upon Orochimaru's shoulders rather than Gaara's.

I can totally see where you are coming from here but I still think that Gaara didn't have any problem with accepting the "Kazekage's" orders. I know he didn't know it was Orochimaru but he nonetheless he was willing to partake in the destruction of Konohagakure. It also doesn't change the fact that he was once a ruthless killer and still was eventually accepted by everyone. Gaara had unstable state of mind similar to how Sasuke is currently so I can at least make some sort of tie there. I still think that Gaara and the rest of his village could have spoke against the Kazekage's wishes and about him siding with Orochimaru even though they were oblivious to them being the same person all along. If Danzo and the elders were able to make a decision against Hiruzen's orders then that possibly means that other higher up shinobi/kunoichi could've possibly revolted against him. (Sunagakure going against the Kazekage)

As for Konan she was never in the position to be tried. After Nagato's death the only person from Konoha she came in contact with was Naruto. So the choice not to take Konan and put her on trial was Naruto's decision, and not Konoha's. If Konoha had captured her she may have been put on trial. But still, she was just following Nagato's orders as well.

I don't believe we know everything about Konan and what Nagato asked of her. I believe she followed Nagato on her own free will regardless of how senseless he became because she most likely either loved him or cared deeply for him. She was willing to become a "criminal" in the eyes of the rest of the shinobi world just for Nagato's purpose as Sasuke is doing the same for Itachi and his clan. I don't think it is impossible for Sasuke to be forgiven or at least excused if he truly repents to the village, etc.

Who's orders are Sasuke following? He defected and joined Orochimaru at his own free will. He then attacked Kirabi following Madara's orders, but then he attacked the Kage meeting in his quest to find Danzo. You may say he was manipulated here by Madara, but regardless of Madara's influence Sasuke was still going to attack Danzo. When Sasuke wanted to do this, Danzo was the Hokage. Sasuke wanted to attack, and kill, the Hokage at his own free will.

We cannot be certain how many orders Konan followed from Nagato and what those orders may have consisted of. We also don't know how much Orochimaru may have used Gaara while posing as the Kazekage. Sasuke did in fact do everything you listed but his path was partially predetermined by Itachi and I'm sure he or Madara would've done anything if it would've meant him taking the path they desired him to walk so I cannot think everything is his entire fault as they were several outside influences which may have pushed him into the path he "chose" to follow.

I must say you've made another interesting thread Kuroi and I thank you for taking the time you spent to share this with us.​

 

[Shibuki]

Hmm well that is possbile. It seems very possible that Sasuke will be forgiven. It seems likely that sasuke will become a good guy. The thing is though how is sasuke going to suddnely be a good guy. At the moment I don't see how that is going to happen.

 

[ReLax -]

Sasuke becoming good is somehting that i can say is possible but ur theory on gaara/konan really dunt relate to that. heres the reason

we begin wit gaara. he really didnt kill anyone except some sand village ninjas when he was young and that one guy from peins village during chunin exams everyone was scared of him and he is the most powerful sand ninja. but after his battle wit naruto/sasuke he realized that he was wrong and did bad to others and changed from the darkness came to light. konoho didnt do anything because they knew it was oro fault. thus gaara ppl were still scared of him but he still fought it and put his anger aside. now hes a good guy and a kage.

konan. does she even count as a bad person? all we seen from her was that she helped pein control his six bodies and she attack jiraiya once but he blow her away. other then tht she did not kill anyone, battle anyone, attack village or even catch jinn. since akatsuki were after that. at the end naruto left her since no one knew a girl was there and also she jus went bck to her village. we dunt know anythg bouther but i doubt she ever was in a big fight

there case is nothing compared to sasuke. join oro on his own free will. attacked the kage summit, attacked eight tails, joined akatsuki, is a missing nin, killed danzou now we dunt even know wht else he is going to do well now we know his next goal is konoho so dunt know. if sasuke stops now maye he can be forgiven but if he continues theres no chance

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

One thing I think you are doing is that you are so used to real world murders and trials that you incorporate them into this story.

Remember, this is the ninja world of Naruto. They have laws that are vastly different from ours. A person can kill someone of another village, and their own village wont punish them so long as it wasn't in their village. The victims village may do something, but its their problem.

They don't have a "ninja" court. They have the Hokage, the elders, the Daimyo. It's kind of like a parliamentary type government in Naruto.
In Naruto, the Hokage is typically the judge, jury, and executioner. The Hokage takes advice from the council and the elders, but still holds the ultimate sway along with the Daimyo.

It is hard to say what would happen if Naruto converted Sasuke. Sasuke has now killed Danzo (and I don't want to hear that Danzo killed himself. That sealing jutsu activates upon death, and even if it didn't and Danzo used his last bit of chakra to kill Sasuke, if he failed, Sasuke still won, which means that technically Sasuke killed Danzo) so Sasuke is no longer pure of heart. BUT neither are most ninja in Naruto. Kakashi killed Haku and a good amount of others, yet he's still the "good" guy.

So who knows? I think that the village will just look over what he did. As Mr. Red XIII stated above, Gaara is a different story because he attacked Konoha under the orders of the "Kazekage" (might I add that I find that there are VERY few outstanding sand shinobi, not including Sasori, there is only Gaara and his siblings, maybe Baki, and Chiyo).

It's like the people in the army. They kill all the time, yet this country doesn't condemn them for it because they all believe that its "the bad guy" that they are attacking. In the Naruto world, its all about who your perception of "the bad guy" is.

These two panels are ideal for explaining about the perception of "the bad guy".

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As you can see, Naruto wants to spare Sasuke and the Raikage isn't for it.

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And this one, "when you went after Hyuuga's Byakugan, we swallowed our bloody tears to prevent a war".

The last one paticularly states that maybe they aren't totally forgiven. But they accept that they are just following their orders from their superiors.

Sasuke and Madara does not count as a superior/subordinate relationship. At least not to Konoha, which is the village whose opinion will matter the most if Sasuke converts. This contradicts what I say...BUT.

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This is what Naruto was.

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This is what he became.

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Recommended for Hokage.

Maybe Sasuke will go through something similar if he converts.

 

[Typhon]

One thing I think you are doing is that you are so used to real world murders and trials that you incorporate them into this story.

Remember, this is the ninja world of Naruto. They have laws that are vastly different from ours. A person can kill someone of another village, and their own village wont punish them so long as it wasn't in their village. The victims village may do something, but its their problem.

They don't have a "ninja" court. They have the Hokage, the elders, the Daimyo. It's kind of like a parliamentary type government in Naruto.
In Naruto, the Hokage is typically the judge, jury, and executioner. The Hokage takes advice from the council and the elders, but still holds the ultimate sway along with the Daimyo.

It is hard to say what would happen if Naruto converted Sasuke. Sasuke has now killed Danzo (and I don't want to hear that Danzo killed himself. That sealing jutsu activates upon death, and even if it didn't and Danzo used his last bit of chakra to kill Sasuke, if he failed, Sasuke still won, which means that technically Sasuke killed Danzo) so Sasuke is no longer pure of heart. BUT neither are most ninja in Naruto. Kakashi killed Haku and a good amount of others, yet he's still the "good" guy.

So who knows? I think that the village will just look over what he did.

Well Kakashi wasn't trying to kill Haku, Haku just dove in the way of a chidori.

Plus Zabuza started it.

 

[Naruto_Sage_Master]

no he is evil

 

[ArizonaMan11]

watch sasuke be on a top secret double agent mission and hes really working for konoha lol . his mission to clean up those who destroyed the uchia... lol that would tick soooo many readers off

 

[Pain..]

Cool story Bro.


But yeh I agree

i agree too !

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Well Kakashi wasn't trying to kill Haku, Haku just dove in the way of a chidori.

Plus Zabuza started it.

True, but he meant to kill Zabuza, and got Haku instead. Either way, someone died.

 

[apple pie of doom]

Now even though I hate Sasuke out of all my heart, and i know he wil ldie, he's probably going to die a hero?c death and all that and everyone gets sad ad blah blah blah.
You know, the usual.
But why, in all the hells must every thread you make be about Sasuke?
We do not wish to be confronted with homosexuality every time we look up this forum.

 

[Last Arcanum]

we begin wit gaara. he really didnt kill anyone except some sand village ninjas when he was young and that one guy from peins village during chunin exams everyone was scared of him and he is the most powerful sand ninja. but after his battle wit naruto/sasuke he realized that he was wrong and did bad to others and changed from the darkness came to light. konoho didnt do anything because they knew it was oro fault. thus gaara ppl were still scared of him but he still fought it and put his anger aside. now hes a good guy and a kage.

I do agree with Orochimaru having the biggest fault in the ordeal but that still doesn’t erase the fact that when he was in need of assistance due to his village lacking in strength (in order to defeat Konohagakure) he turned to them and Sunagakure accepted his offer with open arms which meant they weren’t the brightest of people. After their Kazekage had been disposed of and Orochimaru began to fully pull the strings I don’t think it was impossible for the village to revolt against his actions. I think if they were uncomfortable with the Kazekage's decisions then they could have possibly spoken against it or at least suggest something else. When the village was considering how to deal with the Uchiha clan the Hokage attempted a peaceful approach but Danzo and the elders spoke against it and took action and they were merely advisors of the Hokage. Regardless of Sunagakure initially siding with Orochimaru to invade Konohagakure they were forgiven and became accepted as allies so why can’t Sasuke if he changes for the better? I’m quite sure when/if he does change he would feel indebt to the village and would want to help them out in any possible shape or way. I’m not entirely sure if all of the shinobi world would be as forgiving as Naruto but if he were to help in the fight against Madara then at least he would be making up for some of his poor choices.

konan. does she even count as a bad person? all we seen from her was that she helped pein control his six bodies and she attack jiraiya once but he blow her away. other then tht she did not kill anyone, battle anyone, attack village or even catch jinn. since akatsuki were after that. at the end naruto left her since no one knew a girl was there and also she jus went bck to her village. we dunt know anythg bouther but i doubt she ever was in a big fight.

I don’t believe she was acting with Akatsuki out of spite but nonetheless she was part of the criminal organization and likely fulfilled any order she was given by Nagato due to her caring deeply for him. If she was willing to take part in the fight against Jiraiya who was a person of importance to her then she defiantly could be capable of much more. We didn’t get to see much of her actions but that doesn’t mean we can dismiss the possibility of her doing anything criminal while in the organization. Konan likely partook in much of Akatsuki’s affairs and defiantly participated in the extractions of the all of the captured Jinchuuriki with knowing they would die in the process. Even if Konan may have not assisted in the capturing of the bijuu she helped in their extractions so she isn’t fully innocent but yet was eventually excused somewhat by Naruto.

there case is nothing compared to sasuke. join oro on his own free will. attacked the kage summit, attacked eight tails, joined akatsuki, is a missing nin, killed danzou now we dunt even know wht else he is going to do well now we know his next goal is konoho so dunt know. if sasuke stops now maye he can be forgiven but if he continues theres no chance

In my opinion all of their cases have similarities that shouldn’t really be denied. Konan joined Akatsuki and assisted Nagato with criminal acts out of her own free will. Gaara was unstable just as Sasuke and they both believed their actions were correct or justified. The only reason Gaara changed was because Naruto got to him in time but Sasuke was further gone when Naruto finally reached him. If Gaara and Konan received a second chance after the everything they did then Sasuke should be given the same chance when Naruto reaches him. Sasuke is in need of help and doesn’t even know it himself and if left unchanged will be a threat to himself and others but that doesn’t mean he should be turned down does it? Naruto held back the emotions he felt toward Nagato and instead tried to understand him which unintentionally helped Nagato return to reality and after that realized that his choices were wrong, etc. Feeling guilty he did the only thing he could do which was try and rewrite all he had done as an amend to the damage he had caused. If Naruto was able to help Nagato and Gaara then he should be able to reach Sasuke in given time whether it be through a fight or through a conversation. Nonetheless I agree with some of what you said about Sasuke but let us not forget that Sasuke’s path was already predetermined by Itachi and I'm sure he or Madara would've done anything if it would've meant him taking the path they desired him to walk so with that said I cannot think everything he has done up to current manga is his entire fault as they were several outside influences which may have pushed him into the path he chose to follow and likely the reason he lost himself somewhere along the way.

Besides a major point of the story is to return Sasuke to the village is it not? If Naruto were to just kill Sasuke or to not forgive him, etc. then that would create a conflict with the whole purpose. Another massive ongoing theme in the story is bonds and Naruto is the one who continues to believe in Sasuke and in their bond they shared and is doing everything possible to restore it. To the several people whom think that Naruto should kill Sasuke or that he will at the end – That would be going against everything Naruto believed in and in doing so he would be contradicting himself right? How entertaining would this manga be if Naruto failed in helping his friend return to his senses? I don’t know about everyone else but I think it would be an extreme failure of a manga and sadly a waste of my time. All in all these are my own opinions and if anyone disagrees with me then so be it and I will acknowledge and respect your opinions no matter if I may not agree with everything but I still believe you should keep your minds open to these possibilities.​