[Discussion] Sasuke's Final Character Arc

[guts2nevergiveup]

I too think the fight was rushed but not the change in Sasuke. Sasuke hasn't changed his ideals only the way he decided to go about it. Sasuke was finally able to admit to Naruto and himself that he left the village for more than one reason. He left to get stronger so he could carry out his revenge against Itachi, he also left because of his feeling for Naruto and Team 7 he admitted they felt like family to him, they were a weakness to him and you can't become as strong as you can when you have a weakness.

He admitted to Naruto once before that Naruto was his best friend and that he would not get strong by doing what Itachi suggested he do and kill him. He said he would get strong his own way. This idea that this was a 5 minute change is wrong. This time he felt that he had to kill Naruto to prove he could cut all of his ties, get rid of what was left of his feelings for Naruto and Team 7, to prove to himself that he could handle the hatred.

Plain and simple, he came up against an immovable force. Naruto was going to keep getting up as many times as Sasuke did. He realized that Naruto never gave up on their friendship, that their friendship meant more to each of them than they realized and they were each others only connection to the village when they both needed one. Sasuke was not saying he lost the fight or he gave up his ideals he was saying he could no longer hold onto his hatred in the face of Naruto's determination. For Naruto this was about saving his friend and bringing him home and about ending the transmigration. This fight to Naruto was not about getting Sasuke to agree with his ideas, hell, he didn't even tell him his ideas, Naruto already said that's for the next fight.

Sasuke has only agreed to accept Naruto, not everyone, and he has also cautioned Naruto that he might go against him again. I think that gives fair warning that he is not going to go along with everything Naruto or the alliance might want. I think that statement keeps him as an antagonist. The other side to Naruto's coin, to keep things balanced.

That was a beautiful reply as well trea! What you said is true and I do agree with you.

I think also one thing that was bothering my friend and made me question it also was how was this the thing that made him change. Like you said, he admitted to naruto before that he was his best friend but sasuke has always been stubborn to oppose naruto no matter what. What my friend also told me is that he was expecting smth big to make sasuke be like you no what you're right and to some extent I agree with him. I liked the ending and I agree with what you said but I also can't help but wonder what in this fight made sasuke not acknowledge naruto cause I get that, but made him let go of the stubbornness that he always had

 

[Trea]

Personally, I think it was the shock of losing an arm and realizing that getting up to fight some more meant you could bleed to death. Sasuke wanted to carry out his plan but I'm not so sure he was ready to die for it. I also think he never really believed that Naruto would let it go that far. Even though Naruto had told him if they fought again they would both die, Sasuke never really believed Naruto was capable of that resolve. When Sasuke saw that Naruto was willing to lose an arm for this, he realized that Naruto meant it and if necessary they would both die to settle this. Sasuke decided he'd rather they both live.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

Personally, I think it was the shock of losing an arm and realizing that getting up to fight some more meant you could bleed to death. Sasuke wanted to carry out his plan but I'm not so sure he was ready to die for it. I also think he never really believed that Naruto would let it go that far. Even though Naruto had told him if they fought again they would both die, Sasuke never really believed Naruto was capable of that resolve. When Sasuke saw that Naruto was willing to lose an arm for this, he realized that Naruto meant it and if necessary they would both die to settle this. Sasuke decided he'd rather they both live.

Interesting so you believe that the extent of the fight, the fact that they pushed each other that far and that sasuke seemed to not wanna fight anymore but Naruto was still willing to fight, is what made him realize?

 

[Sarahmint]

I believe your friend. I still love Sasuke, but he is nothing more then a support character. Everyone below Team 7 is just thrown by the waist-side, Itachi included.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

I believe your friend. I still love Sasuke, but he is nothing more then a support character. Everyone below Team 7 is just thrown by the waist-side, Itachi included.

Thanks for reading!

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with your last sentence, sorry haha

Ppl change when they are about to die. Sasuke's pivotal moment was supposed to be when he cut down Naruto allowing him to dive into darkness, but he failed to do that. Naruto wouldn't let him. Naruto never once thought of cutting ties with Sasuke and Sasuke finally seeing how similar his and Naruto's feelings are finally made him appreciate their connection. Having failed at his agenda and coming to terms with his own feelings Sasuke gave up on his course :|

I am good with that Love overcame Sasuke's power.

wait so you think it was that specific moment when sasuke couldn't finish Naruto with his chidori that made him change?

 

[GhostProject]

Why are you laughing at the end of the first sentence XD jk I know.

It's true tho. In a way I guess I expected more at the end of such a long and content rich series. I mean there was so much that went into the whole story that it kinda felt like not everything that needed to be adressed was addressed. In terms of sasukes's character, did you check byron123's response?

Yea I checked it. The point about Sasuke are mostly true I think, but at the end, it is horrible for his development I thought. It contradicts Sasuke's stronger side completely I think, and makes him seem like he has no stability.

I still think a lot more discussion needed to take place during the fight for his change to be believable, without undermining his character.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

Yea I checked it. The point about Sasuke are mostly true I think, but at the end, it is horrible for his development I thought. It contradicts Sasuke's stronger side completely I think, and makes him seem like he has no stability.

I still think a lot more discussion needed to take place during the fight for his change to be believable, without undermining his character.

Yea I also think the fight shoulda been longer and there should have been more back and forth between naruto and sasuke.

In a way I also think you're right in saying that it kinda undermines his character completely, the fact that he is so indecisive as the other transmigrant.

 

[GhostProject]

Yea I also think the fight shoulda been longer and there should have been more back and forth between naruto and sasuke.

In a way I also think you're right in saying that it kinda undermines is character completely, the fact that he is so indecisive as the other transmigrant.

I agree. It's especially confusing because Madara seemed MUCH more like the Indra we had come to understand, and Sasuke remains as kind of this weird indecisive, dangerous, and unstable brat.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

I agree. It's especially confusing because Madara seemed MUCH more like the Indra we had come to understand, and Sasuke remains as kind of this weird indecisive, dangerous, and unstable brat.

Yea exactly we got this image of what indra was like which madara fit perfectly and we got this image of ashura that naruto fit perfectly and then naruto fits that image of ashura no doubt but sasuke doesn't really fit the one for indra at times it seems.

And oh yea we talked about that too already, sasuke still seems very childish at times which is funny cause naruto was suppose to be the childish one out of the two

 

[The Dreamer]

Hmm idk I liked everything about the end except for the fact that they lose arms.
But hey new chapters should be out today or tomorrow so we'll see. ..

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

Hmm idk I liked everything about the end except for the fact that they lose arms.
But hey new chapters should be out today or tomorrow so we'll see. ..

Why didn't you like that lol?

I think there should've been more build up leading to Sasuke changing his views,like he could've left on a soul searching journey for a while and then come back and admit he was wrong.But other than that I liked how the fight turned out.

I feel like there was a lot of build up but I think I know what you mean. Also do you mean like go on a journey after the fight?

 

[Mikasa Hagaromo]

It's not that long of a text so pls read it all, I would appreciate it.

So I have a friend who didn't like the conclusion of the naruto and sasuke fight. I for the most part was sastified with how it ended but I still believe he makes some valid points; the main one being that he believes that Sasuke's resolution after the fight with Naruto was not believable and out of character.


The thing is that on top of their fight, they had this battle over what would be the best way for peace in the future. That was arguably the most important battle between them. Sasuke presented Naruto with his plan and his resolve. Good or bad, he had a plan. Afterwards, Naruto didn’t really offer anything in return. He kept contradicting sasuke and said that he wants to make every ninja cooperate but he didn’t explain why this was the best option and the way to go and yet sasuke makes a complete 180. Let’s put it in his words:

“Sasuke just gives up like that, going from 100 to 0, 'I'm going to kill you...Oh wait I don't want to cuz I like you.' Not to mention he says he lost directly to Naruto. Naruto had no actual plan as well if Sasuke wasn't willing.” And,

“the fact Sasuke just goes 200% in the other direction was ridiculous. *They're both dying* "You know what Naruto, you're like the coolest I always wished I was like you" That's how I felt reading it lol.”


Even though I believe that sasuke at the end should ultimately become naruto’s friend again, I agree with some of the points my friend made. Sasuke seemed so determined to make his “revolution” happen and in like half a chapter he backs away from it completely. This leads to a couple things you guys can address:

Spoiler

First, is the fact that Sasuke changed this fast a problem or not? I argued that if it would have take at least two chapters for Sasuke to go back on his revolution, it would have been more believable. What do you think?


Second, do you think of sasuke as an antagonist or as a villain, and does that affect the result? My friend saw him as a complete villain at that point, “I guess I just don't believe him going from villain (I saw him as a total villain) to complete 180 "I'm misunderstood bro", which is why he had a hard time believing sasuke would change like that and I argued that sasuke is more of an antagonist.


And finally, would it have been better if kishi hadn’t made sasuke turn like that at the end and made him oppose the entire world. Would it have been more believable of a change if sasuke was less certain in his revolution plan than he seemed to be or, if it was a complete different ending where sasuke tries to cooperate with naruto right away?

Feel free to address any or all of these and discuss

@ bold....did you see how sad Sasuke looked in every panel in which he explained the revolution and those pauses?....dude was making a sacrifice and he didn't want to but felt he must lest Itachi's sacrifice be wasted......

....when he saw the depths of Naruto's resolve....when he saw that he was willing to sacrifice a limb to stop Sasuke from breaking their bond he realized that no matter what he did or how far he went he'd never be able to shake Naruto.......so he figured he'd might as well accept it.....and he appreciated it.

 

[Trea]

But it wasn't really a complete or fast change, those feelings were always there to begin with, Sasuke just ran away from them and tried to ignore them. He admitted that Naruto reminded him of Itachi and that he was feeling like Team 7 was his family, Naruto was his first bond after losing his family. At times he was pretty protective of Naruto because of it. I think after not having Itachi anymore Sasuke realized that his bond with Naruto was the next best thing to having his brother.

Naruto admitted he wanted very badly to be Sasuke's friend but didn't know how to go about approaching him because Sasuke was out of his league. He made him a rival instead and kept trying to be better and do better to catch up to him. After a life of being ignored and belittled this bond was the only thing Naruto had to hold onto. It gave him a reason to keep going and do better. Without this bond he would not have formed his ninja way. This was the most important bond in Naruto's life, until he was finally accepted by everyone else, and he could not give up on it because this particular bond was the basis of who Naruto is.

Was it an easy decision for Sasuke? No, that's why he asks Naruto to explain what friend means to him. I think we see the tear running down Sasuke's face it's partly from relief of not dying, partly from realizing it's okay to stop pushing away the part of himself that cared and also sadness that he was giving up on the way he chose go after his goal. I don't think it was sudden, I think there was plenty of foreshadowing by Kishi, Sasuke has always been gray and not black and white like the usual villains or protagonists.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

@ bold....did you see how sad Sasuke looked in every panel in which he explained the revolution and those pauses?....dude was making a sacrifice and he didn't want to but felt he must lest Itachi's sacrifice be wasted......

....when he saw the depths of Naruto's resolve....when he saw that he was willing to sacrifice a limb to stop Sasuke from breaking their bond he realized that no matter what he did or how far he went he'd never be able to shake Naruto.......so he figured he'd might as well accept it.....and he appreciated it.

I know but he was still confident that him becoming hokage and embodying the hatred of the entire world was the best solution.

I like your second paragraph. Thx for reading

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

But it wasn't really a complete or fast change, those feelings were always there to begin with, Sasuke just ran away from them and tried to ignore them. He admitted that Naruto reminded him of Itachi and that he was feeling like Team 7 was his family, Naruto was his first bond after losing his family. At times he was pretty protective of Naruto because of it. I think after not having Itachi anymore Sasuke realized that his bond with Naruto was the next best thing to having his brother.

Naruto admitted he wanted very badly to be Sasuke's friend but didn't know how to go about approaching him because Sasuke was out of his league. He made him a rival instead and kept trying to be better and do better to catch up to him. After a life of being ignored and belittled this bond was the only thing Naruto had to hold onto. It gave him a reason to keep going and do better. Without this bond he would not have formed his ninja way. This was the most important bond in Naruto's life, until he was finally accepted by everyone else, and he could not give up on it because this particular bond was the basis of who Naruto is.

Was it an easy decision for Sasuke? No, that's why he asks Naruto to explain what friend means to him. I think we see the tear running down Sasuke's face it's partly from relief of not dying, partly from realizing it's okay to stop pushing away the part of himself that cared and also sadness that he was giving up on the way he chose go after his goal. I don't think it was sudden, I think there was plenty of foreshadowing by Kishi, Sasuke has always been gray and not black and white like the usual villains or protagonists.

Well now one thing that kinda bothers me is sasuke being so easily pushed around as such an important character. He's indra's transmigrant and pretty much naruto's equal. Idk I guess I also thought sasuke would have a stronger resolve in the end but I completely agree with everything you said.