[Discussion] Sasuke's Final Character Arc

guts2nevergiveup

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It's not that long of a text so pls read it all, I would appreciate it.

So I have a friend who didn't like the conclusion of the naruto and sasuke fight. I for the most part was sastified with how it ended but I still believe he makes some valid points; the main one being that he believes that Sasuke's resolution after the fight with Naruto was not believable and out of character.


The thing is that on top of their fight, they had this battle over what would be the best way for peace in the future. That was arguably the most important battle between them. Sasuke presented Naruto with his plan and his resolve. Good or bad, he had a plan. Afterwards, Naruto didn’t really offer anything in return. He kept contradicting sasuke and said that he wants to make every ninja cooperate but he didn’t explain why this was the best option and the way to go and yet sasuke makes a complete 180. Let’s put it in his words:

“Sasuke just gives up like that, going from 100 to 0, 'I'm going to kill you...Oh wait I don't want to cuz I like you.' Not to mention he says he lost directly to Naruto. Naruto had no actual plan as well if Sasuke wasn't willing.” And,

“the fact Sasuke just goes 200% in the other direction was ridiculous. *They're both dying* "You know what Naruto, you're like the coolest I always wished I was like you" That's how I felt reading it lol.”


Even though I believe that sasuke at the end should ultimately become naruto’s friend again, I agree with some of the points my friend made. Sasuke seemed so determined to make his “revolution” happen and in like half a chapter he backs away from it completely. This leads to a couple things you guys can address:


First, is the fact that Sasuke changed this fast a problem or not? I argued that if it would have take at least two chapters for Sasuke to go back on his revolution, it would have been more believable. What do you think?


Second, do you think of sasuke as an antagonist or as a villain, and does that affect the result? My friend saw him as a complete villain at that point, “I guess I just don't believe him going from villain (I saw him as a total villain) to complete 180 "I'm misunderstood bro", which is why he had a hard time believing sasuke would change like that and I argued that sasuke is more of an antagonist.


And finally, would it have been better if kishi hadn’t made sasuke turn like that at the end and made him oppose the entire world. Would it have been more believable of a change if sasuke was less certain in his revolution plan than he seemed to be or, if it was a complete different ending where sasuke tries to cooperate with naruto right away?


Feel free to address any or all of these and discuss :)
 

DaileyM

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Did Becky write this? (Inside joke)

Anyway, I believe that Sasuke should have turned good at the end but not the way that it did.. It all seemed too simple.. I don't know.. I mean after all these years of refusing and refusing, He's like ''i lost'' blabla. did not like it at all.
 

Umari Senju

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Well I see what you mean but you have to keep in mind that while Sasuke was fighting the fight against Naruto for Revolution. Naruto's priority was a personal one. To return his friend to the way he was before. Naruto wasn't in this fight for the ideal of peace. He was in this because the entire series he has been trying to bring Sasuke back.

It just so happened that the world was at stake as well. But still I understand your point. Maybe if this damn war didn't drag on as long as it did (and they left kaguya out of it completely) Kishi might have had more time to actually flush this battle out and address Naruto's view on how exactly he wanted to change the ninja world. But that's a lot to cover in just 5 short chapters.

Maybe the movie will finally deal with how exactly Naruto intends to bring about a peaceful world.
 

MWQ

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I see him as an anti-hero. The fact it was naruto, is the reason he was moved and changed. If it was anyone else, then he would stayed the same, at all costs.
 

Mr Hiru

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It's not that long of a text so pls read it all, I would appreciate it.

So I have a friend who didn't like the conclusion of the naruto and sasuke fight. I for the most part was sastified with how it ended but I still believe he makes some valid points; the main one being that he believes that Sasuke's resolution after the fight with Naruto was not believable and out of character.


The thing is that on top of their fight, they had this battle over what would be the best way for peace in the future. That was arguably the most important battle between them. Sasuke presented Naruto with his plan and his resolve. Good or bad, he had a plan. Afterwards, Naruto didn’t really offer anything in return. He kept contradicting sasuke and said that he wants to make every ninja cooperate but he didn’t explain why this was the best option and the way to go and yet sasuke makes a complete 180. Let’s put it in his words:

“Sasuke just gives up like that, going from 100 to 0, 'I'm going to kill you...Oh wait I don't want to cuz I like you.' Not to mention he says he lost directly to Naruto. Naruto had no actual plan as well if Sasuke wasn't willing.” And,

“the fact Sasuke just goes 200% in the other direction was ridiculous. *They're both dying* "You know what Naruto, you're like the coolest I always wished I was like you" That's how I felt reading it lol.”


Even though I believe that sasuke at the end should ultimately become naruto’s friend again, I agree with some of the points my friend made. Sasuke seemed so determined to make his “revolution” happen and in like half a chapter he backs away from it completely. This leads to a couple things you guys can address:


First, is the fact that Sasuke changed this fast a problem or not? I argued that if it would have take at least two chapters for Sasuke to go back on his revolution, it would have been more believable. What do you think?


Second, do you think of sasuke as an antagonist or as a villain, and does that affect the result? My friend saw him as a complete villain at that point, “I guess I just don't believe him going from villain (I saw him as a total villain) to complete 180 "I'm misunderstood bro", which is why he had a hard time believing sasuke would change like that and I argued that sasuke is more of an antagonist.


And finally, would it have been better if kishi hadn’t made sasuke turn like that at the end and made him oppose the entire world. Would it have been more believable of a change if sasuke was less certain in his revolution plan than he seemed to be or, if it was a complete different ending where sasuke tries to cooperate with naruto right away?


Feel free to address any or all of these and discuss :)
Sasuke said that he wanted to protect the village and his brother's wishes. A revolution is only a way to do this.

If you think about it, saying that his determination was focused in his revolution is void. What Sasuke's resolve involved was only to protect the village and Itachi's efforts. Sasuke has not surrendered to his most important wish, he only surrendered to the path he choose to fulfill it.

There are other paths, Naruto taught him about a path which is not perfect, but way less painful.
 
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guts2nevergiveup

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Did Becky write this? (Inside joke)

Anyway, I believe that Sasuke should have turned good at the end but not the way that it did.. It all seemed too simple.. I don't know.. I mean after all these years of refusing and refusing, He's like ''i lost'' blabla. did not like it at all.
Hehehe not becky, judith this time. XD

And yea in a way I agree that it felt rushed. Maybe if it would have taken longer for sasuke to change and if naruto really proposed smth than it woulda felt better. Thx for reading becky... I mean Dailey :)
 

DaileyM

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Hehehe not becky, judith this time. XD

And yea in a way I agree that it felt rushed. Maybe if it would have taken longer for sasuke to change and if naruto really proposed smth than it woulda felt better. Thx for reading becky... I mean Dailey :)
I totally agree, It's like ''i give up now let's be friends and sing kumbaya together'' .____.

You're welcome Judith.
 

Umari Senju

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I totally agree, It's like ''i give up now let's be friends and sing kumbaya together'' .____.

You're welcome Judith.
Well I am not so sure they are really buddy buddy again so to speak. Sasuke did say "what if i end up opposing you again" well to that effect anyway. He may have given up on his Revolution. But that doesn't mean he has accepted Naruto's Ideals completely.
 

guts2nevergiveup

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Well I see what you mean but you have to keep in mind that while Sasuke was fighting the fight against Naruto for Revolution. Naruto's priority was a personal one. To return his friend to the way he was before. Naruto wasn't in this fight for the ideal of peace. He was in this because the entire series he has been trying to bring Sasuke back.

It just so happened that the world was at stake as well. But still I understand your point. Maybe if this damn war didn't drag on as long as it did (and they left kaguya out of it completely) Kishi might have had more time to actually flush this battle out and address Naruto's view on how exactly he wanted to change the ninja world. But that's a lot to cover in just 5 short chapters.

Maybe the movie will finally deal with how exactly Naruto intends to bring about a peaceful world.
Yea I understand that naruto's priority was to change sasuke first and not his ideal of peace necessarily but nonetheless, it is kinda idk unrealistic that sasuke would change just like that.

I agree they shoulda left the fight with kaguya completely out and I think this woulda been better if more time was put into it.
 

Umari Senju

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Yea I understand that naruto's priority was to change sasuke first and not his ideal of peace necessarily but nonetheless, it is kinda idk unrealistic that sasuke would change just like that.

I agree they shoulda left the fight with kaguya completely out and I think this woulda been better if more time was put into it.

As I said I completely understand you and your friend's point on this and I find it hard to not agree to an extent. It did feel rushed, mainly because it was. But as I posted earlier. Maybe we will actually get Naruto's view on how to change the world in the movie. Well...we can hope at least XD
 

DaileyM

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Well I am not so sure they are really buddy buddy again so to speak. Sasuke did say "what if i end up opposing you again" well to that effect anyway. He may have given up on his Revolution. But that doesn't mean he has accepted Naruto's Ideals completely.
Yeah, That's true. I don't think he has given up completely on his goals. At least i hope so.
 

DHOH

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Even though I am 100% happy with the outcome of the battle, your friend have quite a few valid points..

Sasuke resolution was forced and and out of character for me.. I say this mainly because when Sasuke was thinking(in his mind while sleep) how jealous he was of Naruto and that he felt like Naruto is in front of him and a power that he didn't have. Well some of that is true and some is false. Sasuke May fell behind in power a few times but he clearly regain the advantage, that was made clear in the manga... And the power Sasuke didn't have is probably the power Naruto has to never give up..

Sasuke change his mind on killing Naruto:
1. He couldn't, or at least not with the conditions.
2. He felt like Naruto must be one hell of a guy to go thrust his lengths for a dirt bag like himself.
3. Plot.. It had to happen and it is any time left to make it happen better lol

Sasuke wasn't a Villian in my eyes, just a confuse kid who wanted to things his way..

Sasuke had to change or the entire manga would've been a huge contradiction.

Great thread
 

Naruto X Hunter

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Sasuke said that he wanted to protect the village and his brother's wishes. A revolution is only a way to do this.

If you think about it, saying that his determination was focused in his revolution is void. What Sasuke's resolve involved was only to protect the village and Itachi's efforts. Sasuke has not surrendered to his most important wish, he only surrendered to the path he choose to fulfill it.

There are other paths, Naruto taught him about a path which is not perfect, but way less painful.
Nicely said.
 

Mr Hiru

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Anyways, I feel that there are a lot of points that are invalid until this point.

Sasuke didn't just change in one chapter, that's absolutely false.

He has been changing from before meeting Hagoromo, even when he saw Naruto handling Kurama's chakra... he saw what could an ordinary person do without innate talents... he saw the potential of believing in yourself even from part 1.

I saw the last battle as a "test" to see what were the extents of this belief. The last question Sasuke asked to Naruto was the final trigger to surrender to the revolution.

This was a long process... I think your friend didn't consider the whole manga, but only the battle. He/She lacks perspective.
 

Naruto X Hunter

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Kumbaya LOL that's hilarious. After all those years, he acknowledge naruto pretty easily haha. They will end up doing more than just singing shit XD jk
Sasuke awknowledged Naruto years ago.





And everything that's happened in the past built up to now,hence multiple flashbacks of the past over the years.
 

guts2nevergiveup

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Sasuke said that he wanted to protect the village and his brother's wishes. A revolution is only a way to do this.

If you think about it, saying that his determination was focused in his revolution is void. What Sasuke's resolve involved was only to protect the village and Itachi's efforts. Sasuke has not surrendered to his most important wish, he only surrendered to the path he choose to fulfill it.

There are other paths, Naruto taught him about a path which is not perfect, but way less painful.
That is true but sasuke has never, for 15 years lol, went along with naruto. And this time, even tho he seemed so certain in himself and naruto not so much, he accepted what naruto had to say. It just felt rushed
 
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