Sasuke's Chakra Control is something else ... Part I.
- Thread starter shelke
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You are the only one with no common sense bro. Rinnegan is the reason he can manipulate the chakra in the first place therefore its a Rinnegan feat for Sasuke. Its his Eye its not like I'm downplaying the feat, its just not what you think it is.
Hago used COAT. Sasuke did not. Thats the point so no need in even mentioning COAT like Sasuke used it. The point of Kurama statement plainly focuses on merging chakras/seperating them. Hago never had to merge chakras.
I'll say this for the last time the feat itself is almost unrivaled. But that doesnt mean his CC ability is over Naruto or even Sakura for that matter who actually had more chakra then Sasuke and possibly the most refined of the 3.
And you keep asking for a SO6P feat from Naruto when he already has two.
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And this. Sasuke converts chakra to his own. Naruto converts his chakra to match thousands in the Shinobi Alliance. Using Ninshu the same as the Sage.
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Also he matched Sasukes "Sage Feat" with this.
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Like I said before manga facts Naruto handles Six Paths Senjutsu because he is a Sage of Six Paths himself. He amassed chakra equal to Sasukes bijuu feat. Thats a feat in itself.
So yes great feat but not untouched.
Give Naruto the same amount of chakras to merge and he can do it. Same for Sakura. Although Sakura cant do it as well as the other two for obvious reasons. She doesnt have Rinnegan or Bijuuaffinities or yin/yang.
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Where is the manga scan to back up this claim? Got any? How many times will you be asked this before you drop stretching this Epic-sized fable filled to the brim with self-conceived crap and post something? Anything?
@Bold And who claimed that Sasuke used COAT? Care to point it out? So, not only do you lack common sense but common understanding of language as well? Not a very good combo if you ask me.
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You mean, he just manipulated the seal back again that was made by Minato with the exact same contract signature to draw the power out? Right.
You mean he converted the "kneaded" chakra? So, only less than half of the equation? Why didn't Kurama state that it was a feat equal to the Sage? And by the way, Ninshuu automatically happens when the chakra is connected. Naruto had nothing to do with it. People were connected via Kurama's chakra. Naruto didn't even have a clue that people were reading his memories.
As for that feat then the NE gathered by Kurama, the avatar made by Kurama and the chakra kneaded for those techs made by Kurama? Why isn't the tailed beast impressed? Haha, This guy!
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Yeah, without any proof, simply claiming is not helping your case. As this is ALL Naruto could manage at the end (and still with Kurama kneading chakra for him). Even after gathering the CC experience from millions of clones, he still couldn't make a complete tech in one hand. His CC and talent is off the charts:
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An incomplete tech in one hand versus two techs (not even combined but put side by side in a single hand; name one individual bar Kaguya who has done that; just one) by Sasuke. He couldn't even complete one tech, whereas Sasuke, despite weakened powers, still managed a perfect Kagatsuchi as Tobirama deduced earlier:
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Yup, same chakra control, indeed. And I just love the flimsy examples, out of which the seal one is the best. A seal made by someone else. Naruto just turned the wheel; Sage of the Six Paths level feat, yo!
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It's basically two sides of the same coin. Both of them use PS in order to surround an object, or pull in an external power. Madara used it the same way with the Kyuubi, and Sasuke did the same. You can also count Sasuke taking in Juugo's Senjutsu as another point, which is something Madara would be able to do if he had access to someone else's Senjutsu power.
Kurama did state it was similar, though. "There is no Gedo Statue here, so he's using the Susano'o as a vessel instead" -- The rest deals with how the Susano'o turns into something new via Sasuke.
I don't think I can count that specifically as skill, I think it lies more with Sasuke's Rinnegan being more efficient than Madara's. Like how Sasuke can use core-less CT, that doesn't really mean his skill was better than Madara's who had his Rinnegan for decades, it just means his Rinnegan is more potent (or special?). Even look at how Sasuke was able to use a similar version of Kaguya's S/T in an unspecified amount of time, another point at his Rinnegan just being overall diverse and versatile compared to Madara's.
I think the 'skill' portion of that ability comes from Sasuke creating the BPS (as in the object itself) rather than making the Susano'o the vessel. Because Susano'o has always been able to take in external objects before (as stated above).
Regardless I think we are on the same page, it's just whether or not we can agree on 'is the skill towards him making the Susano'o the vessel' or 'the Susano'o becoming something new all together after it takes in the Bijuu chakra'.
Kind of like the reverse COAT or COAT in that sense. I think that's what made the feat so spectacular.
~Ethereal~
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NeutralDjinn
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This is a good post. I like how you clearly showed and explained your evidence directly from the manga. I already like Sasuke and this made me appreciate his skills even more.
Im Still Robin
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Really now? Surely you don't want these manga facts.
You're constantly trying to deny. The only thing you got right here is what you said about needing the rinnegan for the bijuu. Which is need to exact the bijuu's chakra.
Please fofh XD
Amazeballs
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It's a decent Sasuke appreciation thread, but don't pretend it's not also a transparent bait thread with the "will always remain untouched" language used to describe Sasuke's feats.
Sasuke's MS/EMS/Rinnegan grant him superhuman levels of chakra manipulation. He can use the Sharingan to adjust his chakra at will, as when he adjusted his Enton to match Naruto's Rasenshuriken against Juubito. The MS is what grants him the ability to create Susano'o, so apparently that type of chakra control is tied to the increase in his Doujutsu.
Anyway, Sasuke is brilliant for being able to extract Bijuu chakra, convert it into a humanoid Raiton body for his Susano'o, and use it to fight. That's pretty unparalleled. He wouldn't be able to do it without Doujutsu, so clearly the ability to perform such feats (i.e., part of the chakra control) stems from his Doujutsu; one simply cannot reconcile "unlocked" abilities with the notion of purely skill-based chakra control. Nonetheless, Sasuke did it better than other Doujutsu users, so his feats are only slightly diminished compared to others who performed advanced levels of chakra control without "unlocked" abilities.
There is no scan saying Sasuke used COAT. Literally none.
We all know Narutos Six Paths Sage Mode makes him understand all chakra. Thats databook fact. So you can give this up now.
Sasuke was able to use kagatsuchi because his Sharingan allows him to adjust chakra. Without it he cant see the ratios.
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Rinnegan gives Sasuke his ability to merge ratios perfectly. RSM allows Naruto complete understanding of chakra. But even without it he can juggle his own chakra+kyuubis+Senjutsu.
Its still a Sage feat on Narutos part bruh that Rinnegan isnt made by Sasuke. And Naruto brought in the torri gates himself he added that on. Kyuubi literally called it the sages technique.
In order to use COAT life is given. Susanoo isnt alive. Sasuke just merged the chakras. Great feat but not COAT. DB never even states he used it. Only Naruto ised YinYang release not Sasuke.
But kudos to Sasuke again. Great feat he is gangsta. He is awesome. Possibly the coolest character. But that doesnt make him the best. Stop overrating him way above those who can obviously compete with him.
Also you cant hate on Narutos CC now its perfect.
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King Of Pop
Active member
Doujutsu grants cc? must be the first time am hearing about it
are you even reading his post correctly? not once has he ever claimed sasuke used coat.
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gerizzyYMcrew
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So naruto creating a new eyeball out of nothing or stopping the eight gates are not feats of six paths level??? Lmaooo
fiercerunner
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The way some of you refer to Sasuke as "Truth" and "God" is so cringe-worthy.
I'm a Sasuke fan as much as I am a Naruto fan.
I'm a Sasuke fan as much as I am a Naruto fan.
ComplexCity
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fiercerunner
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Also, Susanoo itself is not all CC. It doesn't only progress via CC improvement. There is definitely an emotional component. This was shown when Sasuke was fighting Danzo:
Based on this I would argue that Sasuke's exceptional control of Perfect Susanoo can be chalked up to wrote memory. You might call this something like, "chakra control memory" in that it's similar to muscle memory. When you type on a keyboard, you don't have to think carefully about where your fingers are going, despite the fact that it is finely controlled movement going on.
Whether or not that's a thing is speculation. Nevertheless, it can't be denied that Susanoo is not 100% CC-based. There is an emotional component and it's also linked to the user's overall chakra reservoir/capacity.
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Based on this I would argue that Sasuke's exceptional control of Perfect Susanoo can be chalked up to wrote memory. You might call this something like, "chakra control memory" in that it's similar to muscle memory. When you type on a keyboard, you don't have to think carefully about where your fingers are going, despite the fact that it is finely controlled movement going on.
Whether or not that's a thing is speculation. Nevertheless, it can't be denied that Susanoo is not 100% CC-based. There is an emotional component and it's also linked to the user's overall chakra reservoir/capacity.
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UnknownJin
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Going by manga Sakura had better control of chakra at that time , im not saying that she has now but still hahah
Konoha Orange Spark
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How is it the two sides of the same coin? The chakra in this case is completely transformed into Raiton. Those were physical objects (chakra flesh in the case of Kurama and Chakra given a physical shape of an avatar in case of BM avatar), this one isn't. If it was the same feat, then why did Kurama claim that it wasn't? I mean, come the heck on, you are blatantly denying a statement from Kurama, when it wore PS as a garb twice. When it didn't state that it was the same thing, then why are you suggesting it? It's an argument with no basis in the manga as Kurama itself doesn't state so.
The argument starts from "since there is no Mezo," which means PS is being turned into one. ISO PS isn't a Mezo. I am scratching my head as to how these two even correlate.
It's kinda silly, because Sage's CT is the only one without a core like Sasuke's. And you are suggesting that it has nothing to do with skill, when Kurama stated that it does? All right.
Already explained it above, as PS has never housed (without merging) any raw chakra. Nor has it ever acted as a Mezo, which is what the mangaka wanted to portray that it isn't an ordinary feat.
It is the reverse of COAT, which is why it is a one of a kind feat.
Dude, you have some serious issues with your eyes. Serious ones.
And this has nothing to do with the thread I made. Furthermore, Sasuke didn't have Rinnegan at all then. And Kagutsuchi is an Ocular ability where Sasuke applies advanced "Shape Manipulation (that has nothing to do with auto-eye-modes)" to Amaterasu cast from the left eye and controlled with the right eye. We have known this since Chee's explanation. Even then, Tobirama (the smartest man in the manga) who studied countless Sharingans outright states in the Viz scan I posted that he had never seen anyone control it that perfectly. Chee also called him a "rare genius" on his control alone. Whoops, another slip, I see.
Bottom-line, Kagutsuchi has nothing to do with controlling Raiton with the eye. Care to point it out where Sharingan, magically, allows for the chakra control of any Ninjutsu bar the one used by the eye? Even then, as the mangaka states, it's entirely dependent upon the skill of the user? No one has over-rated Sauske. You are over-rating Naruto, as every single scan you have posted to sling dirt at Sasuke and exalt Naruto is misinterpreted, out of context or has nothing to do with the discussion. Naruto's CC isn't at Sasuke's level. It's canon manga logic, and no amount of fanboyish flip-flopping changes that.
As for understaing all chakra, then you just hacked your own foot off, along with you flimsy argument. As not only do you accept that he has no innate skill in CC (as the automatic mode aids him in that constantly), but him still asking and getting kneaded Bijuu chakra and not doing much by himself even after amassing CC experience of thousands upon thousands of clones with that "universal grasp of things" mode on, makes Naruto's skill so medicore that I am inclined to laugh at this whole thing. If that isn't talentless, then I don't know what is.
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Typical Naruto fans. What can you expect?
The Susanoo is meant to progress onwards. Emotions simply trigger different states on rare occasions. However, CC is absolutely pivotal in its control and progress. Otherwise, there wouldn't be PS out of CS (which is technically the final form of Susanoo) or stabilized and unstabilized versions or Sasuke possessing different Complete versions for EMS and MS, albeit no emotional states were involved there.
What? I have posted the scan where Madara made PS out of CS on nothing but CC alone. How is it rote memory (no idea why you even used this), when the manga states that it isn't?
Sakura had near perfect CC at the start of the manga. Sasuke didn't.Going by manga Sakura had better control of chakra at that time , im not saying that she has now but still hahah
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