Sasuke vs. Kakashi

[KidGamer65]

Location: Team Kakashi vs. Sasuke (Orochimaru's hideout)

Distance: 15 m

Intel: Manga

Restrictions: None.

Beginning of Part 2 Sasuke vs. Pre Pain Arc Kakashi.

Who wins?

Scenario 2: Sasuke absorbs Orochimaru, Kakashi gets Beginning of Part 2 Naruto, Kakashi and Sakura.

 

[Prince Charles]

Meh kakashi extra med diff. I won't say hard because of the type of ninja kakashi is.

He ends it with a kamui.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

I'd give it to Kakashi Mid-High Diff. His feats were relatively the same thought part 2 until we got to the War Arc, as the only thing that really changed was his skill with Kamui. (And logically stamina + some natural progression)

Edit: Didn't see this was Pre Pain. That's makes this more of a toss up because I don't remeber any really good Kamui feats from before then (and Deidara managed to dodge his in lntial one)

It's a pretty even match honestly. He gets wrecked in S2 though

 

[Tantalus Thief]

I'd give it to Kakashi Mid-High Diff. His feats were relatively the same thought part 2 until we got to the War Arc, as the only thing that really changed was his skill with Kamui. (And logically stamina + some natural progression)

Edit: Didn't see this was Pre Pain. That's makes this more of a toss up because I don't remeber any really good Kamui feats from before then (and Deidara managed to dodge his in lntial one)

It's a pretty even match honestly. He gets wrecked in S2 though

I think Kakashi kamui'd Deidara's explosion.

 

[DHOH]

Kakashi wins both. Kamui is a game changer.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

I think Kakashi kamui'd Deidara's explosion.

That wasn't exactly it's best feat though. Theres nothing gaugable that would have it hitting Sasuke.

In direct confrontation Deidara was barely able to react to Sasuke's Shunshin. He was nearly blitzed back to back and called him to fast. So if Deidara can react and have time to start moving gainst this Kakashi's Kamui, then Sasuke does so easily with his faster shunshin, faster reactions, and chakra sight that gives him an even earlier warning about Kamui.

 

[KidGamer65]

I'd give it to Kakashi Mid-High Diff. His feats were relatively the same thought part 2 until we got to the War Arc, as the only thing that really changed was his skill with Kamui. (And logically stamina + some natural progression)

Edit: Didn't see this was Pre Pain. That's makes this more of a toss up because I don't remeber any really good Kamui feats from before then (and Deidara managed to dodge his in lntial one)

It's a pretty even match honestly. He gets wrecked in S2 though

How is it an even match? Sasuke is faster than him, just as physically strong as him nor does Kakashi surpass him in close combat. And that's just in Base let alone Curse Mark level 1 and level 2. Match is far from even. Kakashi has little going for him here. His saving grace, Kamui, is pointless since Deidara was able to evade it by having his bird duck.

He might lose S2, but wrecked?

-Canonically made Naruto's Kyuubi chakra useless.
-Canonically blitzed him.
-Easily dismantled him along with Sai, in Base w/ no Sharingan.

Meh kakashi extra med diff. I won't say hard because of the type of ninja kakashi is.

He ends it with a kamui.

Beginning of Part 2 Kakashi? MID diffs Beginning of Part 2 Sasuke? :lol What? I need an explanation for this one.

 

[Prince Charles]

That wasn't exactly it's best feat though. Theres nothing gaugable that would have it hitting Sasuke.

In direct confrontation Deidara was barely able to react to Sasuke's Shunshin. He was nearly blitzed back to back and called him to fast. So if Deidara can react and have time to start moving gainst this Kakashi's Kamui, then Sasuke does so easily with his faster shunshin, faster reactions, and chakra sight that gives him an even earlier warning about Kamui.

KG set it was pre Pain arc but that doesn't mean we should neglect that he obviously improved his utilization with kamui or he wouldnt of had been able to do those feats with kamui against pain. Pre or not his kiamui improved.

 

[Prince Charles]

lol @kidgamer where does it say in the op that this is beginning of part 2 kakashi? You said pre pain arc, you didn't specify how far back this kakashi is. If your making this the beginning of part 2 kakashi say that in the op. I read pre pain arc but Im not going as far back.

 

[KidGamer65]

lol @kidgamer where does it say in the op that this is beginning of part 2 kakashi? You said pre pain arc, you didn't specify how far back this kakashi is. If your making this the beginning of part 2 kakashi say that in the op. I read pre pain arc but Im not going as far back.

Pre Pain Arc Kakashi has no Kamui feat that'd put his Kamui above what was shown against Deidara so it doesn't matter. Pre Pain Arc Kakashi's only Kamui feats are:

-Warping Deidara's explosion.
-Failing to warp Deidara.

So unless something else I'm missing puts it at the level where it can catch Sasuke, you don't have a point here.

 

[Prince Charles]

Pre Pain Arc Kakashi has no Kamui feat that'd put his Kamui above what was shown against Deidara so it doesn't matter. Pre Pain Arc Kakashi's only Kamui feats are:

-Warping Deidara's explosion.
-Failing to warp Deidara.

So unless something else I'm missing puts it at the level where it can catch Sasuke, you don't have a point here.

lel?

Did his kamui improve from his first encounter from using it on deidara to the point of using it against the pains?Yes.fact

All your bringing to the table is his failed attempts from first using kamui, what I'm saying is his kamui usage obviously improved overtime from the first encounter with deidara or he wouldnt of had been able to pull off those kamui feats against pain. Fact

I mean unless your saying that since the moment he failed to kamui deidara he never used kamui again and simply out of nowhere against pain it was suddenly better.

 

[KidGamer65]

lel?

Did his kamui improve from his first encounter from using it on deidara to the point of using it against the pains?Yes.fact

Stop. Just stop. How it improved from then to the Pain Arc is irrelevant when this is Kakashi BEFORE the pain arc. Like I said, unless you can actually show me that Kakashi BEFORE the pain arc has a Kamui that can catch Sasuke then you can stop arguing cause what you are saying doesn't make sense.

All your bringing to the table is his failed attempts from first using kamui, what I'm saying is his kamui usage obviously improved overtime from the first encounter with deidara or he wouldnt of had been able to pull off those kamui feats against pain. Fact

Like I said above, unless you can show me that the improvements made before the pain arc are good enough to catch Sasuke then you don't have an argument. Simple as that. How good is Kamui is in the Pain arc isn't the measure you should be using when he doesn't have those feats. He only gets everything before. Period.

And then we can use common sense. Pre Pain Arc Kakashi means Kakashi BEFORE the Pain Arc. What arcs are before the Pain Arc?

-Immortals Arc.
-Kazekage Arc.
-Hunting Itachi Arc.
-Introduction.

Thus those are the feats you should be using.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

How is it an even match? Sasuke is faster than him, just as physically strong as him nor does Kakashi surpass him in close combat. And that's just in Base let alone Curse Mark level 1 and level 2. Match is far from even. Kakashi has little going for him here. His saving grace, Kamui, is pointless since Deidara was able to evade it by having his bird duck.

No lie, I was thinking Base Sasuke the whole time. CS should tip the match in his favor.

Kakashi still has the superior Ninjutsu though. He has more types and has shown more versatility. Suitor counters Katon and he can copy Chidori variants via his Sharingan (while this doesn't work out for Sasuke without knowing Suitor or Doton) but CS let's Sasuke win an Chidori/Raikiri clashes.

I won't mention Kamui because I already said I think Sasuke can avoid it

Overall though I see Sasuke winning now

He might lose S2, but wrecked?

-Canonically made Naruto's Kyuubi chakra useless.
-Canonically blitzed him.
-Easily dismantled him along with Sai, in Base w/ no Sharingan.

Nullifying 0tk isn't the same as 3tk, and he's definately not surpressing 4TK. I don't see how he'll get the chance while having to deal with Kakashi either

If 3tk come out then he's screwed since he can't deal with Naruto and Kakashi at the same time, and if 4TK comes out then Naruto solos easily (I still don't buy Oro's hype against 3TK, but that's another can of worms and doesn't really affect much in a team battle)

 

[Prince Charles]

Stop. Just stop. How it improved from then to the Pain Arc is irrelevant when this is Kakashi BEFORE the pain arc. Like I said, unless you can actually show me that Kakashi BEFORE the pain arc has a Kamui that can catch Sasuke then you can stop arguing cause what you are saying doesn't make sense.

Dude what? You're making no sense here, all I'm saying is that his kamui improved overtime and you cannot dispute that when we clearly saw his kamui improved against pain. How am I not making sense?

It's called common sense, like I said before unless your telling me since the first time he used kamui against deidara which was a failed attempt, and lets skip all the way to when he used it against pain where we saw major improvements, your telling me in that gap period he did not train his kamui? So it magically got better with no training to where he had trouble warping deidara moving to warping a fast moving target and speeding nail aimed at his forehead?

Manga agrees with me, he's kamui ability obviously got better after the encounter with deidara, you don't need to see panels of him training it to use common sense.

Like I said above, unless you can show me that the improvements made before the pain arc are good enough to catch Sasuke then you don't have an argument. Simple as that. How good is Kamui is in the Pain arc isn't the measure you should be using when he doesn't have those feats. He only gets everything before. Period.

And then we can use common sense. Pre Pain Arc Kakashi means Kakashi BEFORE the Pain Arc. What arcs are before the Pain Arc?

-Immortals Arc.
-Kazekage Arc.
-Hunting Itachi Arc.
-Introduction.

Thus those are the feats you should be using.

the improvements he made may or may not be good, once again as I said before his kamui utilization had to improve after the encounter with deidara that's all im saying. Whether those improvements are good enough for sasuke I do not know unfortunately.

and What? I shouldnt be using how good his kamui is against the pains? I have to and its only right because that tells me his kamui obviously IMPROVED OVER TIME FROM THE ENCOUNTER WITH DEIDARA

 

[KidGamer65]

No lie, I was thinking Base Sasuke the whole time. CS should tip the match in his favor.

Kakashi still has the superior Ninjutsu though. He has more types and has shown more versatility. Suitor counters Katon and he can copy Chidori variants via his Sharingan (while this doesn't work out for Sasuke without knowing Suitor or Doton) but CS let's Sasuke win an Chidori/Raikiri clashes.

I won't mention Kamui because I already said I think Sasuke can avoid it

Sasuke's strongest Katon would be the two dragons that he sent up to start Kirin, and that's larger and more powerful than any Suiton I can remember being in Kakashi's arsenal. Not sure how Sharingan lets him copy Chidori variants when they are just different shape manipulations applied to Chidori, even then Sasuke's will always win in a clash due to the Curse Mark.

Overall though I see Sasuke winning now

Aight.

Nullifying 0tk isn't the same as 3tk, and he's definately not surpressing 4TK. I don't see how he'll get the chance while having to deal with Kakashi either

He suppressed Naruto's power with a glance. Anything above KN0 is irrelevant because if Kurama gets suppressed there he's not making another appearance. There's absolutely no way he enters anything above that from the jump unless he willingly asks for enough chakra to enter KN3 or KN4, which is ridiculously out of character for Naruto since he was determined to not use Kurama's power at all back then.

If 3tk come out then he's screwed since he can't deal with Naruto and Kakashi at the same time, and if 4TK comes out then Naruto solos easily (I still don't buy Oro's hype against 3TK, but that's another can of worms and doesn't really affect much in a team battle)

Agreed 100%.

 

[KidGamer65]

Dude what? You're making no sense here, all I'm saying is that his kamui improved overtime and you cannot dispute that when we clearly saw his kamui improved against pain. How am I not making sense?

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unless you can actually show me that Kakashi BEFORE the pain arc has a Kamui that can catch Sasuke then you can stop arguing cause what you are saying doesn't make sense.

If you are going to reply, don't reply with something that I already addressed.

It's called common sense, like I said before unless your telling me since the first time he used kamui against deidara which was a failed attempt, and lets skip all the way to when he used it against pain where we saw major improvements, your telling me in that gap period he did not train his kamui? So it magically got better with no training to where he had trouble warping deidara moving to warping a fast moving target and speeding nail aimed at his forehead?

I'm just going to wait for you to prove that whatever improvements he made before the Pain arc are good enough to catch Sasuke. Stop using Pain Arc feats and stop with this nonsense assumption that "Pre Pain Arc Kakashi" means Kakashi "days" before the Pain Arc began, because that's the only way your argument makes sense. If I wanted him to have Pain Arc feats I would've said "Pain Arc Kakashi". Like I said, common sense. Use it.

Manga agrees with me, he's kamui ability obviously got better after the encounter with deidara, you don't need to see panels of him training it to use common sense.




the improvements he made may or may not be good, once again as I said before his kamui utilization had to improve after the encounter with deidara that's all im saying. Whether those improvements are good enough for sasuke I do not know unfortunately.

Now you can stop arguing. If you don't know whether or not Sasuke can be taken out by whatever improvements he made BEFORE THE PAIN ARC'S TIME PERIOD then you don't have a point here. You're just arguing to argue and that's annoying. :lol I'm just going to leave this here again in hopes that this sinks into your brain.

And then we can use common sense. Pre Pain Arc Kakashi means Kakashi BEFORE the Pain Arc. What arcs are before the Pain Arc?

-Immortals Arc.
-Kazekage Arc.
-Hunting Itachi Arc.
-Introduction.

Thus those are the feats you should be using.

-OP says before Pain Arc.
-This guy still wants to use Pain Arc feats.

I don't care how good it was before then unless you can show me that it was good enough to catch Sasuke. Point blank period.

:lol what?

 

[Prince Charles]

lol I'm not going to bother with this guy, obviously he knows I'm right but due to his credibility on this site, he chooses to fabricate the manga so he can appear right!

But one thing I liked what you said is that
''-OP says before Pain Arc.
-This guy still wants to use Pain Arc feats.

No I am not using pain arc feats, what I am saying is those feats in the pain arc clearly tells us his kamui ability improved overtime. What is so hard about that to understand?

I already told you in my other posts, all im saying is his kamui warping it terms of skill improved, I even said this in my other post above, "Whether those improvements are good enough for sasuke I do not know unfortunately.
"

You're main problem here is that you know I'm right, improvements since the time he first used it against deidara his kamui obviously had gotten better, thats evident during the pain considering he warping a bullet seed nail in his time from using his forehead?

No I'm not using his pain arc kamui feats and saying they'll be as good as it was against pain but using those feats against pain should obviously tell you his kamui usage improved from the time he used it against deidara.

If you want candy that bad just tell me, Halloween is over so you can stop acting like a clown now But ill just leave this right here for you, you've known me long enough on this site! I don't accept fabrication of the manga to fit one's own personal need!

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[Curse Mark]

Lmao good thread keep it up boys

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Sasuke's strongest Katon would be the two dragons that he sent up to start Kirin, and that's larger and more powerful than any Suiton I can remember being in Kakashi's arsenal. Not sure how Sharingan lets him copy Chidori variants when they are just different shape manipulations applied to Chidori, even then Sasuke's will always win in a clash due to the Curse Mark.

Agreed on the clash bit.

He should be able to copy it because most jutsu involve shape manipulation and nature manipulation. Meaning the Sharingan copies both of those when ever he copies a Jutsu, and given that he's already created his own shape manipulation's for Raikiri he should be more than capable of replicating Sasuke's with the Sharingan.

His Suitor would probably be beat by the Dragons, but it should be enough to give him time to evade like against Kakuzu's Katon×Fuuton combo.

He suppressed Naruto's power with a glance. Anything above KN0 is irrelevant because if Kurama gets suppressed there he's not making another appearance. There's absolutely no way he enters anything above that from the jump unless he willingly asks for enough chakra to enter KN3 or KN4, which is ridiculously out of character for Naruto since he was determined to not use Kurama's power at all back then.

Agreed on Kurama not coming back if he gets surpresses, but Kakashi and Sakura's support he might be able to get to higher tails

Naruto at the begging of part 2 loses to Sasuke if he starts in Base, that much is fact. It's not till later on that he catches up in Base form, and Tailed forms are the only ones from begging of P2 you'll see me argue for beating Sasuke. My argument here revolves around his teammates allotting him time to get to higher levels (since Kakashi won't get bodied like Yamato)

 

[KidGamer65]

Agreed on the clash bit.

He should be able to copy it because most jutsu involve shape manipulation and nature manipulation. Meaning the Sharingan copies both of those when ever he copies a Jutsu, and given that he's already created his own shape manipulation's for Raikiri he should be more than capable of replicating Sasuke's with the Sharingan.

His Suitor would probably be beat by the Dragons, but it should be enough to give him time to evade like against Kakuzu's Katon×Fuuton combo.

He didn't accomplish that until later on in the Manga. I can agree with the rest.

Agreed on Kurama not coming back if he gets surpresses, but Kakashi and Sakura's support he might be able to get to higher tails



Naruto at the begging of part 2 loses to Sasuke if he starts in Base, that much is fact. It's not till later on that he catches up in Base form, and Tailed forms are the only ones from begging of P2 you'll see me argue for beating Sasuke. My argument here revolves around his teammates allotting him time to get to higher levels (since Kakashi won't get bodied like Yamato)

It's not gonna happen. Sasuke w/ CM2 should be a good ways above Kakashi in direct combat, and Sakura can't play any support role that cause him to divert all his attention to her, not when he can outright take her attacks and survive due to CM2's wings and when he can summon and control Manda to support him since he's absorbed Orochimaru here. All he needs is a glance while Manda distracts or holds off Kakashi. After that it's GG from there.

-snip-

Lmfao, better take your own advice there my man. :lol I never denied the fact that he got better. I said stop arguing if you can't prove he got good enough.