Kakashi rose through the ranks as quick as he did due mostly to the war although being a prodigy helped.
The war ended when Itachi was 4 so there was no reason for him to graduate from the Academy early than Kakashi, become a Chunnin as fast as he did, join the Anbu earlier than Kakashi or rise through through the anbu ranks faster.
Kakashi would have peaked at mid jounin at best if it wasn't for his sharingan-related handouts and Itachi excelled with nothing but what he was born with.
As for Sasuke....
12 years old- Chunin level against Orochimaru
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13 years old- already an ex-anbu captain, s-class criminal against Orochimaru.
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Itachi > Kakashi > Sasuke as far as being a prodigy goes.
except your comment i replied to wasnt about that. you started mentioning powerups of sasuke, saying he is no prodigy(i didnt know child sasuke received Ems, rinnegan etc nice try tho), so dont act like you were talking about child only.
If that makes you feel better, okay. Either way, I admit he's a prodigy and find his progression impressive since it was faster than that of his teammates and everyone else. I was just bringing up the possibility of different expectations over the times.
no its bias. Since you already admitted to itachi's quick progression as "merit of his skills." I see no reason why the same wouldn't apply to kakashi. Especially since the requirements for graduation, is clone jutsu, transformation jutsu and some lvl of taijutsu.
Kakashi graduated and reached Chuunin faster, Itachi joined Anbu faster. If you still want to use age as an argument.
There's no specific requirement that I know of for joining anbu black ops, sai was in root since he was a child.
As for Obito/Rin- that's the point. They were Chuunin whereas the only one to be promoted to Chuunin during Sasuke's/Sakura's generation was Shikamaru.
They already said sasuke was chunin lvl. Only thing missing was making it official. Meaning Sasuke at that age was a chunin (kinda) much like obito. Going to show war time had 0 effect on grad rates.
More kids should have been promoted other than him. The standard seems to be higher as years progress or if peace is present. (That's just the way I took it, you are more than free to disagree.)
so if I have no problems admitting itachi rose to greatness via his own merit why can't you admit the same for kakashi instead of trying to pass it off as "wartime accelerated the grad rates."
Kage level mindset only means he was able to perceive things from a less biased standpoint than his clan members did. He actually cared for people outside of his family. Not much else.
opinion. Respected. But dosen't a mindset like that help towards early graduate rates? If he can put the village before his own clansmen then he'd sure be able to understand what comes first in a mission? Yay or ne?
No, I did explain why he went through the ranks slower. Or, rather I entertained a possibility. It's up to you to disagree or agree. Either is fine with me and this isn't too important in the grander scheme of things. ~
I wouldn't consider it a possibility given the fact that he was the only one accelerated. It's not like it happened to his entire class. Obito got left back.
There were steps Obito had to take to get to that point. He didn't wake up one day with his sharingan and propose it. He took over Akatsuki, gathered beasts, etc. It took years before leading up to the point of proposing war. Also, he just had the most hax MS tech, kamui. MS techs are practically give aways, no one knows what they'll get prior to activating it. This doesn't take raw talent or denote he's a prodigy as an Uchiha. It means he's powerful as an Uchiha.
steps aside, given what he's accomplished it's reason enough to hold uchiha to a different standard.
You mention him being a drop-out, but that drop-out was locked in a cave for a year with nothing to do but listen to an old man's ramblings and train all the time. One year of nothing but serious training and learning will stop someone from being weak.
I wouldn't go that far. Ppl like lee can(and actually does) train for years(or their entire life) yet uchiha can pull the same results in months. Obito as you said went from dropout to kage lvl with only a year of training. Sasuke was "prodigy(not really)" had 3 years of training and and drugs to boost him yet I'd never even fathom him pulling the stuff obito did. But he too put jounin and the like to shame. So I have no reason not to believe uchiha shouldnt be held to a different standard.
Itachi was comparing only Kakashi's sharingan usage to an average Uchiha's, but also complimented him on it in the same encounter. Not anything else
Kakashi the man that was hyped to copy 1000 techs. Yet his use is average. R U seeing the trend yet?
The Uchiha being a major threat to the village doesn't denote they're all prodigies, just that they're powerful. I don't consider these to always go hand in hand. It is easier for an Uchiha to be considered elite. They have the most potential to become powerful (and as a result arrogant). However, I still wouldn't call them all prodigies or geniuses. Such terms go far past just raw power and you admit yourself that they didn't use it well.
tl;dr- I basically agree with most of your post now and did before- I was just bringing up that depending on what one is comparing, it could be either Kakashi or Itachi. And the possibility of the ranking system changing over the years (it's not baseless, it's canon imo u'-'u). And that being an Uchiha does not automatically make you a prodigy or above all, even though it does give a shinobi an advantage and an easier way to get to that point. Both Kakashi and Itachi are prodigies though, so it doesn't really matter if one is above the other imo. I wasn't trying to put down Kakashi or anything, he has plenty of talent. I guess this is most likely my last post in the thread. This was a nice short discussion. ^^
except your comment i replied to wasnt about that. you started mentioning powerups of sasuke, saying he is no prodigy(i didnt know child sasuke received Ems, rinnegan etc nice try tho), so dont act like you were talking about child only.
Sasuke isn't a prodigy. He got multiple handouts and was guided by those superior to him.
Kakashi's only handout came after he rose though the ranks. Where as sasuke's handouts is the sole reason he even recipes praise.
Tobirama comparing him to madara? Y not? They're the only known ems(gift from itachi) users. B4 tobirama knew he had ems he didn't give two fcks about him.
Oro calling him a prodigy? Why not? oro done pumped him with drugs to become a super soldier and gave him a knockoff sage mode. All this taking place after childhood.
As a genin sasuke was, kakashi was planning to fight sasuke blindfolded with hands tied behind his back, but that didn't happen and sasuke gave him a full body workout
Ninjutsu or jutsu, both still confirm my point.
Its OK kakashi now is still anbu level. That is not weak
he got power because as being co mc he is bound to face tougher opponents being on a dark path and all so he would need the power obv. does this take away his skill set? nope not one bit.
Kakashi's only handout came after he rose though the ranks.
i dont give a damn when it came, fact is it did come and is the main reason why he has been relevant. not that his feats before he got the sharingan is anything to brag about. as others have said, it was a time of war so him being jounin is not as special as it appears to be. face it, he cant do shit without uchiha power. heck he was about to get fodderized by a meteor as he stood helpless before sasuke saved his ass, same meteor lee and some others took on.
Where as sasuke's handouts is the sole reason he even recipes praise.
nonsense. go and read part 1 esp land of waves and CE arc and some of his base feats in pt2 as you obv dont know much.
Tobirama comparing him to madara? Y not? They're the only known ems(gift from itachi) users. B4 tobirama knew he had ems he didn't give two fcks about him.
no, he compared him to madara because he showed the same potential(jutsu wise) as the latter. it about Ems as tobirama didnt even make any mention of that so your point is invalid.
Oro calling him a prodigy? Why not? oro done pumped him with drugs to become a super soldier and gave him a knockoff sage mode.
when you can show scans of oro pumping him with drugs even though sasuke toungue lashed him about how he hated his methods of doing things, then you can talk. when oro made that comment, sasuke was in base so mentioning cm is irrelevant.
Yeah and then Danzo obeyed Lord Itachi's orders of not laying a finger on Sasuke like an obedient little puppy... Until his untimely demise at the hands of Godsuke, then Danzo (just like Obito) finally saw that they can now do as they please since Lord Itachi wasn't around anymore
Lol if it means that much then stop trying to convince me otherwise.
he got power because as being co mc he is bound to face tougher opponents being on a dark path and all so he would need the power obv. does this take away his skill set? nope not one bit.
when ppl only recognize him due to said handouts? Yeah that diminishes it.
i dont give a damn when it came, fact is it did come and is the main reason why he has been relevant. not that his feats before he got the sharingan is anything to brag about. as others have said, it was a time of war so him being jounin is not as special as it appears to be. face it, he cant do shit without uchiha power. heck he was about to get fodderized by a meteor as he stood helpless before sasuke saved his ass, same meteor lee and some others took on.
it had to be about ems. For base sasuke didn't impress him.
when you can show scans of oro pumping him with drugs even though sasuke toungue lashed him about how he hated his methods of doing things, then you can talk. when oro made that comment, sasuke was in base so mentioning cm is irrelevant.
Yeah and then Danzo obeyed Lord Itachi's orders of not laying a finger on Sasuke like an obedient little puppy... Until his untimely demise at the hands of Godsuke, then Danzo (just like Obito) finally saw that they can now do as they please since Lord Itachi wasn't around anymore
But of course, he wouldn't be able to do it himself since Itachi would find out about it, then Itachi would make him suffer...
He fought to kill Sasuke AFTER Itachi was dead already
Yes and look where Tobirama's way of dealing with the Uchiha got the village... On the brink of a civil war, leading to the eradication of the clan Lol Good Leadership
Child prodigy hands down kakashi then itachi sasuke wasn't much in his child years. We are talking childhood genius here not over all genius and accomplishments. Kakashi was a tremendous genius as a kid. Basically his progress stopped when he gained the sharingan but at the age of 6-8 there isn't a shinobi stronger than kakashi
Kid Minato knocked out 3 Jounins with bare hands without them even know he was coming,he basically blitzed them while Kakashi had problems to beating 1 Jounin even though he had Obito to back him up.
But of course, he wouldn't be able to do it himself since Itachi would find out about it, then Itachi would make him suffer...
He fought to kill Sasuke AFTER Itachi was dead already
Yes and look where Tobirama's way of dealing with the Uchiha got the village... On the brink of a civil war, leading to the eradication of the clan Lol Good Leadership
Lord Danzo didn't need to fight Sasuke himself before, because he had soldiers to do it for him. Just like how Danzo didn't need to swing the sword to kill the Uchiha Clan, he had Itachi do it for him. Like a true leader.
It was Hiruzen's job to keep the village peace, but just like with Hyuga Affair and Raikage, Oro telling Anko he'd attack the village in 1 month, and allowing Oro to get away after kidnapping and killing dozen of people and 60 babies; Hiruzen waifed just let it all happen.
Kakashi rose through the ranks as quick as he did due mostly to the war although being a prodigy helped.
The war ended when Itachi was 4 so there was no reason for him to graduate from the Academy early than Kakashi, become a Chunnin as fast as he did, join the Anbu earlier than Kakashi or rise through through the anbu ranks faster.
Kakashi would have peaked at mid jounin at best if it wasn't for his sharingan-related handouts and Itachi excelled with nothing but what he was born with.
As for Sasuke....
12 years old- Chunin level against Orochimaru
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13 years old- already an ex-anbu captain, s-class criminal against Orochimaru.
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Itachi > Kakashi > Sasuke as far as being a prodigy goes.
Yeah, no. Your scans on Orochimaru encounter compassion are laughably wrong as well.
- Itachi overcame Orochimaru through Genjutsu, not through his own cunning.
- Kakashi even as an adult did nothing and the opponents he faced pale in comparison to what Sasuke and Itachi did as children.
- Then you have the fact that kid Sasuke fooled Orochimaru and led him into a trap. A fact Orochimaru accepts:
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Not to mention a Jounin class opponent, Haku:
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Sasuke figured out the technique as well:
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Not only that, Sasuke knew how to dodge his attacks effectively and figured out his movements completely as well, and knew from the start that the technique was chakra taxing which was affecting his speed and he hadn't even awakened Sharingan then:
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Haku accepts it later:
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It was because of Sasuke astuteness that he decided to end the fight quickly by targeting Naruto:
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- Something Kakashi fell for even when he was pushing 30. Child prodigy indeed.
Long story short, what did kid Kakashi exactly do that comes even remotely close to this? Absolutely nothing.
Sasuke isn't a prodigy. He got multiple handouts and was guided by those superior to him.
Kakashi's only handout came after he rose though the ranks. Where as sasuke's handouts is the sole reason he even recipes praise.
Tobirama comparing him to madara? Y not? They're the only known ems(gift from itachi) users. B4 tobirama knew he had ems he didn't give two fcks about him.
Oro calling him a prodigy? Why not? oro done pumped him with drugs to become a super soldier and gave him a knockoff sage mode. All this taking place after childhood.
Nothing but grade A BS. Handouts? Kakashi got Sharingan and MS, both through Obito. Let's not talk about handouts. Forget about PS or Kurama's chakra during war allowing him much better stamina and Kamui feats; something Kakashi admits, twice? How many handouts does it make?
Love your blatant denial of clear cut manga scans. How embarrassing. Didn't Kakashi as a kid got his eye gouged out and relied on Obito to bring one opponent down? Prodigy my ass.
I love it how you call Uchiha Dna some kind of handouts, not to mention the clan practice of lending eyes to learn it secrets. Get over yourself. It's Kakashi that got the handouts, not Sasuke.
Kakashi was good but he can't be compared to Itachi and Sasuke imo
While Sasuke his potential is far greater than Itachi's , strictly speaking itachi was the greater 'child prodigy'
Sasuke felt like he was living in Itachi's shadow afterall, Itachi was always ahead of him
Finished the acadamy at a younger age, became a Chuunin and even Anbu captain at age 12?
Even the fireball jutsu Itachi was more adept at. his father even claimed 'u are not Itachi afterall'
Solo'd Orochimaru at age 13 while Sasuke went to him in search for growing more powerfull.
Sasuke was like a diesel , a bit slower at the start but once on the move a lot better.
Though Kakashi deserves some credit for developping Chidori.
It's up to you to disagree or agree. Either is fine with me and this isn't too important in the grander scheme of things. ~
