Amaterasuice
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It would be pretty cool. But he would still be behind Naruto (once Naruto gets yin chakra).
I wonder what Sasuke would get to counter?
Sasuke does NOT have Senjutsu Chakra
- Thread starter UchihaNagashi
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It would be pretty cool. But he would still be behind Naruto (once Naruto gets yin chakra).
I wonder what Sasuke would get to counter?
Disquiet
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CM with Susanoo that will be OP! Susanoo will be ten times stronger! Who knows he might get PS just from all the stimuli
Hmm yeah I wonder what kind of effects that would have on his susano'o; since it's a manifestation of the users chakra, it's plausible that it would be imbued with senjutsu as well.
I'm not really a hardcore Sasuke fan (not sure if I'm giving that impression, but he's my second fave alongside Minato), Itachi is my fave. And I normally don't attempt to defend anyone but Itachi lol, but let's see....
I think we should wait to see the full extent of his capabilities before claiming he's not on the level of Naruto yet, Tobi's eye prowess was able to manipulate a perfect jin, it took an outsider to notice it, meaning even his bijuu didn't notice a disturbance in the chakra. It's plausible that even this bijuu was under the spell. I wonder if Sasuke is capable of doing the same, at least to an extent...
On top of that, I don't think we've seen everything from his Susano'o or eye power in general. One thing is for sure though, Sasuke WILL get his time to shine.
Sennin of Logic
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Wow, this should not have been rated 2 stars. Fanboys be mad.
UchihaNagashi
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Okay, I got your whole damn point just now.
You were wasting my time. Why did you start this, if I had never denied those things at first?
Sasuke can get CM from Orochimaru easily, of course. Sasuke can get Senjutsu Chakra directly from jugo, that is also correct.
But your whole damn point is about that. He can GET. Read again my thread. This debate is going the damn wrong way.
This was my damn point. And you are taking me to the wrong route.
If you have anything that you deny in my thread, say it now loud and clear with quote tags on.
Otherwise, I'm not taking this further. I'd like to debate against others too.
Disquiet
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I was disagreeing with particular points of your thread and pointing out some flaws, which is perfectly normal. :|
If you believe he can absorb it, and I proved he could balance it (which is what you were kind of stating; but countering that statement as well) it would be very significant to the thread....
You:
- Senjutsu attacks (enhanced ninjutsu and physical attacks) can only be performed when balancing natural energy and regular chakra
- He used it up in his amaterasu
- Not enough natural energy/senjutsu chakra and you can't use senjutsu attacks; too much and you transform.
- States that the Senjutsu chakra was already balanced for him; so he wouldn't have to balance it.
- States that he can't balance it
- He can maybe absorb it (but stated you have doubts)
- Stated that if he can absorb/balance it consciously he would have done so in the war
Me:
- Uses your statement about amaterasu to counter that he can't balance it
- States that it must have been enough for him to use amaterasu (too little and you can't use it)
- Shows that Juugo's statement, "He should be able to handle it." was talking about Sasuke balancing it; not absorbing it (Juugo was the one supplying him with it).
- Shows that senjutsu chakra even when absorbed from another user must be balanced since it still transforms you; showing the page where Preta Path transforms due to absorbing Naruto's senjutsu chakra
- Points out that Juugo gave him even more chakra the next time (too little can't perform senjutsu attacks; and he used it in amaterasu according to you); further showing his balance over it.
- Points out to you that you say he can maybe absorb it as well
- Points out that even Juugo (the progenitor of CM) has yet to say or do anything.
So yeah, that's that. If you feel I'm a waste of your time, then don't mind me.
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Actually Kabuto said Orochimaru couldn't replicate Juugo's clan abilty in another body. It was Orochirmaru who experimented with adding Hashirama's cell even said he didn't know a test subjected survived meaning they were all just test subjects while Danzo was the only one he knew had it at the time (Was said Oro gave Danzo Hashirama's cells). The differences is Danzo showed no wood jutsus except 2 times, 1 to dodge Susanoo arrow and 1 when he lost control of Hashirama's power. Yamato was more of a sucess since he displayed more control over it.
I think it's because Yamato was fully combined with Hashirama's DNA where Danzo wasn't because Yamato can use Water and Earth elements which together makes wood and Hashirama's power to control Bijuus (to an extent). Madara who is also able to use wood might be due to his sharingan, he has Hashirama's DNA which who allow him the ability to use wood jutsus and he has the Sharingan which can copy jutsus so in Madara's case i think it's more of him being able to copy wood jutsu and use or he use the Rinnegan's ability to use Wood jutsus since it lets you use all jutsus and Madara knows all about it. could be a mix of the two since Madara could use Hashirama's jutsus perfectly like he copied it instead of learning it for the first time. Also he said Hashirama's cells did nothing until he was close to death. Plus Kabuto and Orochirama made Madara's edo "Special".
difference between Hashirama's DNA and Juugo's clan ability is the ability, Orochirama couldn't replicate Hashirama's ability to control Bijuus and use wood jutsu except for Yamato out of the other subjects he had. Orochimaru had other CM users who were compatible with CM since they had it but couldn't replicate Juugo's clan ability even when injected with Juugo's DNA. Yes this is spectualtions but you really think Oro who had many Curse mark users that we saw when Sasuke went to a hideout would not experiment on them as he did Hashirama's DNA? Especially after learning he had 1 success in Hashirama's DNA experiment. Sasuke simply being compatible to CM doesn't mean he could gain Juugo's ability when all of Orchimaru couldn't replicate the ability.
Only thing is, Kabuto said Oro couldn't replicate Juugo's clan ability into another body and that's where the CM being made came from. Could be that Sasuke is the body to replicate the ability but the thing is there is nothing special about Sasuke's body, he has the Sage's eyes while Naruto has the Sage's body. Also Itachi removed Oro and the curse seal from Sasuke for a reason, i don't think they should over write that fact.
Also in part 1 wasn't it said that the CM was Oro's chakra? I mean it was dark chakra which was said to make whoever use it slowly become servants of Oro and then it says it was Juugo's chakra. So my question is, How can Orochiamaru give Sage the Curse mark by biting him and it be Juugo's chakra? Oro created the CM and it was based on Juugo so I think Oro combined his and Juugo's chakra because When Sasuke was first given the CM and was passed out he saw Oro in his dream not Juugo.
Disquiet
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Yeah Oro wasn't compatible with Juugo; but Sasuke is. I'm mot sure why you're trying to argue otherwise. Itachi also sealed Oro for a reason, yet Sasuke undid that for his own reasons/benefits. Itachi also died; yet was brought back for a purpose. Hell, most people thought Minato wouldn't become a jinchuuriki. It's not implausible that Sasuke won't gain CM again.
As for the second part, you're seriously going to have to clarify, because I'm not getting it. Oro would just give Sasuke the Curse Mark same as he did in part 1; which we later find out is pseudo SM. This is a manga fact [
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UchihaNagashi
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Okay, so this is about how Sasuke cannot/can absorb Nature Energy and balance it. Okay, I'll prove this wrong, but I have got to admit I'm on tough line.
First of all, CM is stored Senjutsu Chakra. It forcefully drains the Chakra of the user, and balances it automatically. So the user does not do the balancing: It's the CM. So Sasuke has no experience in already balancing considering this point.
So CM is only applied to those who have much Chakra, so that the state can sustain it's form. And this possible leads to death. This was why Orochimaru had only 10% success rate at his victims.
So what Jugo meant by this basis, that Sasuke could handle it because he had enough Chakra. You do know that Jugo is the basis of CM?
The second thing is that you cannot use ''Senjutsu Arts''. Not enchanced attacks. Enhanced Ninjutsu is fine, since it does not recquire certain amount of Chakra and can be controlled, than those Senjutsu Arts that need so.
If Sasuke knew how to balance it, and even balanced it, where's the SM? I see no change in form or whatsoever. Even significantly low Chakra Naruto could do it.
Preta Path had absorbed too much. He drained Naruto twice, who was constantly absorbing Natural Energy without even at first balancing it, and of course turned into a frog. He even took the RasenShuriken.
If he could absorb it, wouldn't he had sensed Killer B after taking only a tentacle?
Some questions and answers for you.
Zerofnaruto
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Then jugo would be the one with senju chakra. Saskue has to either borrow senju DNA in order to get a power up. I belive one of the zetzu's offered him or tobi did in the manga and saskue said "hell no" or somthing. Either way, saskue dosn't have any senjustu chakra. The ones who are claming this are the saskue fanboys.
Disquiet
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@Bold If CM balances it automatically, then it's highly plausible that he does indeed have experience. In this case, it would be comparable to the toad oil, which automatically absorbed in natural energy. I'll touch more upon his ability to balance it later.
Not at all, possessing a large amount of chakra is a prerequisite sure, but it's not the only factor. I'm sure there are plenty of people with huge chakra; the success rate would have increased greatly once this information was known. Obviously, it would be completely retarded to give the curse mark to someone with a low amount of chakra when knowing fully well there only needs to be a huge amount present. Since the curse mark simply is simply releasing senjustu chara into the body; we can conclude that 'handling/balancing' it is a big must. It is like what Fukasaku said; people have failed that previous training. There would have been no need to even begin the training if they had low amounts of chakra; but they failed from not being able to handle/balance it. Now that I think about it, the success rate would have been wiped clean. It would be 100% guaranteed if the only factor was having a huge amount of chakra.
So Juugo can just give his chakra to anyone if he knows that they have a huge amount of chakra? Juugo said, "Since he's compatible with my CM, he should be able to handle it." If we take into consideration the context all throughout the manga regarding Juugo and the CM; it's obviously not just about possessing large quantities of chakra. Orochimaru would most likely be compatible with the curse mark if that was the case, but no. There are other factors, and since the curse mark revolves around senjutsu chakra entering the body; there aren't that many other possibilities outside from being able to balance.
I'll give you the point that he could/cannot use 'senjutsu arts' without training, but how are you saying he couldn't use enhanced attacks as well? That's what enhanced ninjutsu is. Furthermore, Fukasaku said it himself [
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].Well if you balance a quantity of chakra outside the range of SM, logically you won't see it. Furthermore, Naruto has very little change compared to Jiraiya; yet he's still balancing it. Sasuke always seemed to be the less monstrous out of them all. Also, let's not forget Fukasaku's statement, "Too little and you can't use senjutsu attacks, too much and you transform." The gap between utilizing senjutsu attacks and transforming is too vague.
Exactly, my point there is that absorbing already balanced senjutsu chakra still transforms you [
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]. Though the curse mark is already proof enough of this. This brings us back to Juugo's statement. Juugo, while in control of how much chakra he was giving him; noted that he should be able to handle it. Though what really nips this argument in the bud; is the fact that Sasuke actually recovered. Since Sasuke had little chakra, then it should have eaten it away instead of him actually boosting him, especially if he no longer has the curse mark. By saying "since he's compatible with the curse mark" and then going on to give Sasuke that little chakra, he's stating that Sasuke still retains the benefits of the curse mark. Juugo expected the chakra not to eat away at Sasuke's (which it should have done since he no longer has the curse mark). No matter how you look at it; Sasuke retained the ability to handle/balance senjusu chakra. According to you, he used it all up in that amaterasu attack. Furtghermore, even Juugo and Karin didn't sense him.
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My point is, Orochimaru doesn't have to be compatible since he can switch bodies to one that is compatible. What I am saying is that Oro would have experimented on test subjects to try and replicate the ability but couldn't find one. Oro had many people with CM meaning they are compatible to juugo as well yet none of them were said to be able to replicate Juugo's clan ability. Go back to part 1, the sound 4 were all compatible to the CM but did they have Juugo's ability? no, because Oro couldn't replicate the ability. Also I was one of the few saying Minato could be a Jinchuuriki, he said himself that he was sealing half into himself.
That's my point tho, why give him the CM? that's an old powerup that was taken from him by Itachi and Idk where i read the translation but i remember Tobi saying Itachi pushed Sasuke to his limits to rid him of Oro and the CM so he would rely on his own power as a proud Uchiha. I couldn't find the page so i didn't add it in my post before. Anyways, the fact that Kabuto said the CM was nothing but a "pretention trick"
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, why would Kishi give Sasuke something like that? His power up are suppose to be something new and powerful. Sasuke's powerup revolves around his eyes to emphesis him having the Sage's eyes while Naruto's powerup are about him having the Sage's body. Naruto is a Bijuu host, chakra residing in his body, same thing as what the Sage did. Sasuke has nothing to support him being able to replicate Juugo's ability.Just being compatible to Juugo for being compatible for CM? Then what about the many CM users Oro had? Sound 4? Kimimaru? Kimimaru died from his overuse of the Curse seal, really think that's something Sasuke should get? IT's also was said to make CM user slowly become Oro's slaves, so Oro giving him that wouldn't happen because Sasuke didn't care about it before because he was blinded by his hatred for Itachi.
Disquiet
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Your whole point is nullified because Orochimaru could have taken Juugo's body (as you said he doesn't need to be compatible since he can switch bodies to one that is compatible). So yeah, that whole argument is negated.
Sasuke already undid some of Itachi's actions. It's a moot point. Also, you misunderstand, we're talking about his access to gain CM; which is very easy. That much is undeniable. It's up to Kishi if he wants to give it to him or not, so I'm not going to go there.
Refer to point one of my counter. Kimimaro had an extremely weak body, he had a disease...bad example. Become his slave? It was clear Sasuke had no intention of becoming his slave while in possession of the curse mark.
Note: And by 'replicate', he simply meant the body's ability to draw in natural energy under its own will. The Curse Mark is different in that aspect. Juugo's clan could absorb natural energy, naturally (without the need for a curse mark).
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