[Discussion] Sanji surpasses Zoro in Wholecake Island

[Uzumaki Macho]

He does make a good point in that someone who's smashing things would fare better against Pica than someone who's using a sword. This was demonstrated in Luffy vs Pica when he blew off more of Pica than his arms covered in surface area.

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It depends on how much damage Vergo can do to the golem and how fast he can do it. Even though stone is easy to destroy, the sheer amount of stone is the problem for Vergo, and he'll have to do Grizzly Magnum level damage to the golem in the right spot if he wants to get to Pica before he can repair the golem.

 

[Love Cook]

There's no evidence that Vergo's haki is stronger than Zoro's. All we know about Vergo's haki is that his CoA is stronger than Smoker's CoA, which doesn't mean anything since Smoker has no CoA feats, and Vergo has no CoO feats.

I'm clueless here buddy, I don't know how any of this is relevant to Vergo beating Pica ?

Also a character doesn't need to scream CoO activate in order to have the skill. Vergo dodged a lot of smoker attacks even while covered in Smoke blocking his sight. I think that is a pretty clear indication that he has CoO. If he has CoO that almost immediately puts him above Zoro who is a complete novice at it. And didn't really know what he was doing with it until he midway through the fight stumbled over it.

Don't know why for the argument it is important that Vergo's CoA is stronger than Zoro's ? There is a little evidence for it though. He was able to make bamboo harder than steel. I think that is more impressive to be able to fight someone and have your bamboo in one piece then protecting your sword from getting blunt like Mihawk taught him. Also Vergo commented on the fact that Smoker's haki was way below him. Meaning that even in his normal form he is a league above Smoker who is a proficient user. Not taking into account that Vergo can also go in his hulk mode, something that hasn't been seen since.

So actually there is no argument that Zoro's haki is stronger than Vergo too, and we will never know because he is dead.

But forget all this, because it's irrelevant to Vergo being superior to Pica.

 

[Skull Knight]

I don't think that is a correct measurement of strength. Because Zoro was only able to coat armament on his sword so that would mean he would lose by default going up against Pica right, since he was full body ?

Vergo was the original seat, and right hand man of Doffy. He had way more praise and even in death he hasn't been injured seriously by physical attacks. The only reason Law beat him was because of his Devil Fruit, and even with that he had to go all out because that used to fail before.

Smoker lost HARD against Vergo who wasn't even in his best form. Pica was strong but he wasn't a fighter like Vergo was. If it were up to Pica he would hide behind his rocks all day. That is why his body, haki and fighting power is not on the level of Vergo. Vergo was able to bend a thick metal door with the airwave of a swing from a bamboo stick. Don't tell me they're more or less the same. If Vergo hits Pica over the head with that it's over.

Na they are both same and the reason being they both showed full body Armament.
They both used a weapon n
Both were hard to beat
There fighting style was different agreed but most of the logia fight like that. They hide in there stuff n kept attacking when they think there's a oppening which is what Pica did.
And whatever tier we put Vergo Pica will be also put on same tier.

No, it shows Sanji was injured beforehand. Nami's hit was able to cause him pain, so Vergo cracking his leg isn't special.

Lol he was injured beforehand n that was the reason he felt the pain Seriously...
I guess hair line fracture doesn't cause Pain

Yeah cause Doffy was talking about his cooking, huh?

And that attack did so much damaged that Doffy start shivering isn't it???

 

[Love Cook]

Na they are both same and the reason being they both showed full body Armament.
They both used a weapon n
Both were hard to beat
There fighting style was different agreed but most of the logia fight like that. They hide in there stuff n kept attacking when they think there's a oppening which is what Pica did.
And whatever tier we put Vergo Pica will be also put on same tier.

It would've been shorter if you would've just said, yeah you're right. I've got nothing.

This has to be the dumbest argument in this thread, and that's saying something with Passerby adding to it.

 

[Skull Knight]

It would've been shorter if you would've just said, yeah you're right. I've got nothing.

This has to be the dumbest argument in this thread, and that's saying something with Passerby adding to it.

Dumbest lol your logic is that Vergo bend a steel door that's y he was greater than Pica as if Steel Door= Mountain.
And to Prove Vergo is above Pica u made assumptions like his Observation Haki is at same lvl as Zoro (even tho Vergo isn't even listed in Observation Haki users).
So for the final time theres nothing that puts Vergo above Pica.

 

[Love Cook]

Dumbest lol your logic is that Vergo bend a steel door that's y he was greater than Pica as if Steel Door= Mountain.
And to Prove Vergo is above Pica u made assumptions like his Observation Haki is at same lvl as Zoro (even tho Vergo isn't even listed in Observation Haki users).
So for the final time theres nothing that puts Vergo above Pica.

No that is not what I said, stop twisting my words or read better.

I said Vergo's attacks in normal mode were already so powerful that the windblast coming of it was able to bend a steel door. The same doors Sanji was unable to kick in and Franky had to use a Radical beam on.

MEANING

That with such an attack, imagine it connecting to Pica. It would do enormous damage to a stone body. Since it would crumble just like Luffy, Elizabello and Chinjao all have proven before. If the likes of Elizabello and Chinjao are able to break a single arm of with 1 attack. Why do you think Vergo, a much more skilled fighter would be unable to do that ?

Do you notice that I haven't even talked about his hulking haki mode yet ? He also has that trump card.

Just because Vergo isn't on a fan made list of haki users doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Like I said he dodged Smoker's attacks from behind while being covered in Smoke. How would you describe that ? Luck ? Also Zoro's level is irrelevant, since I said that Zoro didn't have a great understanding of CoO in that fight, he got surprised by it, questioned what he was feeling. Meaning that if someone with a low level CoO is able to track Pica, that means that a seasoned haki users like Vergo would have no problems with it.

Maybe by this time you notice a difference in how our posts are constructed, the arguments i make and the ones you make. The way how you avoid answering the questions I have for you.

Your argument that Pica is stronger than Vergo is baseless, the opposite is true and I've explained why. If you're unable to go more in depth than they both have a weapon and both have full body CoA, then yes, you are are the dumbass.

To summarize:

* Vergo has the knowledge about how Pica's devil fruit works
* Vergo has the agility needed to get fast to where he needs to be (Geppou)
* Vergo is a seasoned haki professional and can sniff Pica's position out
* Vergo has the means to break the golem with his powerful attacks
* Vergo has a form of full body haki that surpasses all other full body haki we've seen so far, because the haki made him like twice his size.

Conclusion, in golem form Pica is a slow and easy target for Vergo. 1 on 1 he would get slaughtered. Feel free to describe to me how Pica would win this fight. And put some little effort into it, or I will rip it apart again.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

No that is not what I said, stop twisting my words or read better.

I said Vergo's attacks in normal mode were already so powerful that the windblast coming of it was able to bend a steel door. The same doors Sanji was unable to kick in and Franky had to use a Radical beam on.

MEANING

That with such an attack, imagine it connecting to Pica. It would do enormous damage to a stone body. Since it would crumble just like Luffy, Elizabello and Chinjao all have proven before. If the likes of Elizabello and Chinjao are able to break a single arm of with 1 attack. Why do you think Vergo, a much more skilled fighter would be unable to do that ?

Do you notice that I haven't even talked about his hulking haki mode yet ? He also has that trump card.

Just because Vergo isn't on a fan made list of haki users doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Like I said he dodged Smoker's attacks from behind while being covered in Smoke. How would you describe that ? Luck ? Also Zoro's level is irrelevant, since I said that Zoro didn't have a great understanding of CoO in that fight, he got surprised by it, questioned what he was feeling. Meaning that if someone with a low level CoO is able to track Pica, that means that a seasoned haki users like Vergo would have no problems with it.

Maybe by this time you notice a difference in how our posts are constructed, the arguments i make and the ones you make. The way how you avoid answering the questions I have for you.

Your argument that Pica is stronger than Vergo is baseless, the opposite is true and I've explained why. If you're unable to go more in depth than they both have a weapon and both have full body CoA, then yes, you are are the dumbass.

To summarize:

* Vergo has the knowledge about how Pica's devil fruit works
* Vergo has the agility needed to get fast to where he needs to be (Geppou)
* Vergo is a seasoned haki professional and can sniff Pica's position out
* Vergo has the means to break the golem with his powerful attacks
* Vergo has a form of full body haki that surpasses all other full body haki we've seen so far, because the haki made him like twice his size.

Conclusion, in golem form Pica is a slow and easy target for Vergo. 1 on 1 he would get slaughtered. Feel free to describe to me how Pica would win this fight. And put some little effort into it, or I will rip it apart again.

Pica requires a highly specific arsenal to beat which is spammable, highly DC AoE. Since those who hasn't shown this always loses according to some, Pica beats Cracker, Katakuri, Smoothie, Jack, the Dukes, Rayleigh, Vista etc. but hey...they said it not me.

Pica literally has no way of beating other people since Sai could dodge named attacks while off guard and fodder could outrun the golem punches.

 

[Skull Knight]

No that is not what I said, stop twisting my words or read better.

I said Vergo's attacks in normal mode were already so powerful that the windblast coming of it was able to bend a steel door. The same doors Sanji was unable to kick in and Franky had to use a Radical beam on.

MEANING

That with such an attack, imagine it connecting to Pica. It would do enormous damage to a stone body. Since it would crumble just like Luffy, Elizabello and Chinjao all have proven before. If the likes of Elizabello and Chinjao are able to break a single arm of with 1 attack. Why do you think Vergo, a much more skilled fighter would be unable to do that ?

You just assuming that attack is same as Luffys Gear 3 attacks or Elizabello's Punch.

Do you notice that I haven't even talked about his hulking haki mode yet ? He also has that trump card.

they both have Armament Haki.

Just because Vergo isn't on a fan made list of haki users doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Like I said he dodged Smoker's attacks from behind while being covered in Smoke. How would you describe that ? Luck ? Also Zoro's level is irrelevant, since I said that Zoro didn't have a great understanding of CoO in that fight, he got surprised by it, questioned what he was feeling. Meaning that if someone with a low level CoO is able to track Pica, that means that a seasoned haki users like Vergo would have no problems with it.

Low lvl???
Zoro has shown Observation Haki from Alabasta arc when he faced Daz.

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Pica couldnt even hit him as he anticipated all his attacks.
Its even funny that you are giving credits to Vergo where he dodged Smoker and said he has seasonal or whatever nonsense mode haki and at the same time you says Zoro is a low lvl thats the dumbest thing you just wrote here to Prove Vergo's CoO > Zoro's.

Maybe by this time you notice a difference in how our posts are constructed, the arguments i make and the ones you make. The way how you avoid answering the questions I have for you.

Your arguments is basically assumptions which u trying to pass as facts.

Your argument that Pica is stronger than Vergo is baseless

I never said that. I said they both are in same tier.

, the opposite is true and I've explained why. If you're unable to go more in depth than they both have a weapon and both have full body CoA, then yes, you are are the dumbass.

lol if Pica is out of his Golem form then thats the only thing they both got Genius.
Now show a scan where Vergo defeated a full body Armament guy n i will accept Vergo > Pica.

To summarize:

* Vergo has the knowledge about how Pica's devil fruit works
* Vergo has the agility needed to get fast to where he needs to be (Geppou)
* Vergo is a seasoned haki professional and can sniff Pica's position out
* Vergo has the means to break the golem with his powerful attacks
* Vergo has a form of full body haki that surpasses all other full body haki we've seen so far, because the haki made him like twice his size.

Conclusion, in golem form Pica is a slow and easy target for Vergo. 1 on 1 he would get slaughtered. Feel free to describe to me how Pica would win this fight. And put some little effort into it, or I will rip it apart again.

lol u ripped nothing apart. You just made assumptions where you compare breaking a steel door with breaking a mountain.

 

[Love Cook]

You just assuming that attack is same as Luffys Gear 3 attacks or Elizabello's Punch.



they both have Armament Haki.


Low lvl???
Zoro has shown Observation Haki from Alabasta arc when he faced Daz.

Spoiler

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Pica couldnt even hit him as he anticipated all his attacks.
Its even funny that you are giving credits to Vergo where he dodged Smoker and said he has seasonal or whatever nonsense mode haki and at the same time you says Zoro is a low lvl thats the dumbest thing you just wrote here to Prove Vergo's CoO > Zoro's.


Your arguments is basically assumptions which u trying to pass as facts.


I never said that. I said they both are in same tier.


lol if Pica is out of his Golem form then thats the only thing they both got Genius.
Now show a scan where Vergo defeated a full body Armament guy n i will accept Vergo > Pica.



lol u ripped nothing apart. You just made assumptions where you compare breaking a steel door with breaking a mountain.

You're impossible, this is the last time I will make an effort at it. I'm pretty sure everybody at the base understands at this point except for you. You're not reading you dumb skull. And you're comparing the wrong things and coming to the wrong conclusion.

I'm not assuming at all the attack is the same to gear 3 or Elizabello's punch, I explained in detail why that attack HAS the destructive power to break stone with ease. I'm not comparing the attacks. YOU ARE. So this is the first point where you're wrong because you didn't read right.

they both have Armament Haki.

Na they are both same and the reason being they both showed full body Armament.

They both have armament haki ? Yeah so what. Who cares that is not what this is about. That is no way to say that they're equal. Even Zoro said in the Pica fight my haki is stronger then yours. Meaning you can't say both got it so they're both on the same level. Vergo showed way more impressive full body haki. Literally arguing against manga facts here. Oda specifically said in that fight that one persons CoA isn't the other person's CoA. So second point where you were wrong.

I know that Zoro has CoO, that was again never the point. The point was that Zoro's CoO isn't that well developed and that even with a basic sense of CoO he was able to find Pica. MEANING, that if a basic level of CoO is enough that a proficient haki user like Vergo would also be able to sniff out Pica's location. So there is no point in comparing Vergo to Zoro because I'm only using Zoro as a benchmark. Even Oda said that Zoro's specialty is CoA in interviews. And just go reread on how he felt this 'strange thing' that happened to be Pica, he clearly learned how to locate him half way through the fight. Just like Usopp developed his haki against Sugar. So by coming to the wrong conclusion here, you were wrong for the third time.

seasonal or whatever nonsense mode haki

Seasonal haki mode, god damn. I said he was a seasoned haki user. Maybe stop trash talking if you clearly don't even know the meaning of the words. You can't base your argument on the fact that you don't even know what you just read. That is lunacy.

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seasoned
Seasoned describes a person who has been around forever, doing what they do, and doing it well — throughout the seasons. They have lots of experience, and they can handle just about anything that comes their way.

You keep bringing it back to Zoro, but this fight is between Vergo and Pica. I don't care that Pica couldn't hit Zoro, that is not only due to the fact of CoO though and also because he is a slow giant stone monster. That is again where Vergo has an advantage because he has Geppou.

And your only rebuttal to me asking HOW can Pica defeat Vergo is having to show you a scan where he defeats a full body haki user.

Now show a scan where Vergo defeated a full body Armament guy n i will accept Vergo > Pica.

That brings us to point 2 again, proving that you really don't understand how this haki thing works. Even though it was the key to Pica's defeat. 1 PERSONS FULL BODY HAKI IS NOT THE OTHER PERSONS FULL BODY HAKI. because if we would go with your retarded logic. Zoro would've never been able to beat Pica because Pica had full body haki and Zoro had it just on his swords. You've seen Vergo hulking out. You've seen vergo handling a CoA haki using logia vice admiral with ease.

And last but not least still comparing the steel door to the mountain feat. Wrong again. If Vergo hits an oni take on the shoulder, the entire arm would fall off. You don't need to blow up the entire statue to beat it. That is also not what Zoro did. You need to section it off, narrow it down, force pica out.

It is smarter to find those important points and apply pressure then just going to town on it. But when I'm talking about intelligence I fear that I'm barking up the wrong tree here.

But at the end of all this, I only asked you one thing in my previous post.

Feel free to describe to me how Pica would win this fight. And put some little effort into it, or I will rip it apart again.

You didn't do that, neither did you put effort into it. So I ripped it apart. AGAIN.

but it was the last time because I'm not going to waste another 5 minutes on you. It's like kicking a mentally handicapped person and It just feels wrong.

 

[Skull Knight]

....

Ok since you want me to give scans proving they both are same here it is:
Sanji kicks Vergo

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{He was charging right infront of him and still took the blow of that kick}

Now the only time Vergo anticipated Smoker was here and its not that hard as after an explosion and smoke forming anybody will expect that Smoker will attack from behind

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and the Seasonal (or whatever nonsense term you like to call which apparently put him above Zoro) CoO wasnt good enough as Smoker kept hitting him.

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And the final blow came when smoker charged straight to him

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Now to prove how much shitty his CoO was here is the scan where he even didnt realised Smoker stole the heart from him n gave it back to law

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Now coming to his Armament read it carefully

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Something similar Pica said

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Zoro cut him

Similarly Law cut Vergo in 2

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so yeah Vergo's haki was nothing to boast about. Both lost similarly thats y i Said both are in same tier. There is a reason why he was the highest executive

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Now if u can read which apparently u can't because the only thing u good at is ignoring. Go and read PH arc again.

 

[Love Cook]

Ok since you want me to give scans proving they both are same here it is:
Sanji kicks Vergo

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{He was charging right infront of him and still took the blow of that kick}

Now the only time Vergo anticipated Smoker was here and its not that hard as after an explosion and smoke forming anybody will expect that Smoker will attack from behind

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and the Seasonal (or whatever nonsense term you like to call which apparently put him above Zoro) CoO wasnt good enough as Smoker kept hitting him.

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And the final blow came when smoker charged straight to him

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Now to prove how much shitty his CoO was here is the scan where he even didnt realised Smoker stole the heart from him n gave it back to law

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Now coming to his Armament read it carefully

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Something similar Pica said

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Zoro cut him

Similarly Law cut Vergo in 2

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so yeah Vergo's haki was nothing to boast about. Both lost similarly thats y i Said both are in same tier. There is a reason why he was the highest executive

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Now if u can read which apparently u can't because the only thing u good at is ignoring. Go and read PH arc again.

Not sure but I feel like you made my point even more clear by posting this, I wonder if you know what you're doing at this point.

You can show me all kinds of pages where vergo get's hit and try to claim that it means he doesn't have CoO. But that is not how it works. Dogtooth a man who was able to see into the future got his ass kicked. Even with CoO you're not invincible.

You like to talk in hyperboles and stretch things I say into something that is on the other end of the spectrum. All I said is that Vergo's CoO is better than Zoro's and therefore he can detect Pica.

All the other sideshit, the garnish you bring up, can get tossed in the bin straight away because I'm only interested in the meat.

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This is textbook CoO, you dismissing it as "that was too be expected" is a joke. If you don't think someone as trained as Vergo, doesn't have CoO, you're a joke. Because it was stated that every Vice-Admiral is trained in haki. And Vergo worked undercover as VA. So whatever nonsense you bring, or made up lists. It's irrelevant because that would be going against Oda's word.

And the other important piece of proof you provided for my argument is when Law, Smoker and Sanji were all unable to seriously damage Vergo physically. Rather he had to be taken down with the help of Law's Devil Fruit.

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Zoro however was able to cut through Pica, meaning that it is an extra argument that Pica's CoA is inferior. Thank you for that extra piece of proof.

Now if u can read which apparently u can't because the only thing u good at is ignoring. Go and read PH arc again.

You don't get to trash talk me, let's get that straight. Especially when it comes to ignoring. I lectured your ass on multiple occasions and addressed all points. You on the other hand always forgot to respond on the previous post. I still don't know how Pica would beat Vergo. You twist all my words in your own favor but I'm not an idiot, I just call you out on that. And I know perfectly clear what happened in Punk Hazard that's why I know Pica is a slow moving giant with inferior CoA, a sitting duck for someone like Vergo. The sooner you open your eyes, the easier it will be.

I have to admit, you put more effort in this reply, I give it 8/10 for the effort. That's worth a response. I give it a 2/10 for the argumentation because half of it worked in my favor and the other half was irrelevant. Work on that for the next time.

 

[Skull Knight]

Not sure but I feel like you made my point even more clear by posting this, I wonder if you know what you're doing at this point.

You can show me all kinds of pages where vergo get's hit and try to claim that it means he doesn't have CoO. But that is not how it works. Dogtooth a man who was able to see into the future got his ass kicked. Even with CoO you're not invincible.

Lol Dogtooth fight -Luffy has to try everything to hit him n most of the time he actually dodged/ blocked Luffy's hits.

You like to talk in hyperboles and stretch things I say into something that is on the other end of the spectrum. All I said is that Vergo's CoO is better than Zoro's and therefore he can detect Pica.

Not again. Zoro has passed the moment in Alabasta what Ussop was feeling in Dressrosa. There was also a moment where I remember Moster trio was sleeping in a room n Luffy asked other 2 that can they feel it or not where they replied yes they can feel something approaching. His haki isn't that weak as you think. Even in Dressrosa he was trying to figure how Pica's power work till the end.

All the other sideshit, the garnish you bring up, can get tossed in the bin straight away because I'm only interested in the meat.

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This is textbook CoO, you dismissing it as "that was too be expected" is a joke. If you don't think someone as trained as Vergo, doesn't have CoO, you're a joke. Because it was stated that every Vice-Admiral is trained in haki. And Vergo worked undercover as VA. So whatever nonsense you bring, or made up lists. It's irrelevant because that would be going against Oda's word.

And the other important piece of proof you provided for my argument is when Law, Smoker and Sanji were all unable to seriously damage Vergo physically. Rather he had to be taken down with the help of Law's Devil Fruit.

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Every VA is trained in Haki. I am not challenging it as he has excellent Armament Haki. The whole undercover thing has nothing to do with Observation Haki.
Another point that he anticipated Smoker coming from behind means he has excellent CoO makes no sense as guys like Crocodile(who isn't listed in CoO) has shown similar feats in MF arc.
Now to strengthem my point a good CoO user will atleast try to dodge or block the attacks of his opponents. Vergo only did that once. So even if we say he got CoO its not that good as you think it is.

Zoro however was able to cut through Pica, meaning that it is an extra argument that Pica's CoA is inferior. Thank you for that extra piece of proof.

Ahhhhh....... Law use his df abilities in his sword. He isn't a regular swordsman like Mihawk, Zoro. Also Law not killing him straight means he wanted Vergo to feel his death.
Both of them lost to a similar attack.
Besides I already gave u the scan where they both said the same thing that u can't cut me but u ignored it.
I even gave u the scan where Pica was said to be Highest Executive u still ignored it.
So here's a thing if u have to make a tier list of Doffy's executives/henchmen where will u put Pica and Vergo???

 

[Love Cook]

Lol Dogtooth fight -Luffy has to try everything to hit him n most of the time he actually dodged/ blocked Luffy's hits.


Not again. Zoro has passed the moment in Alabasta what Ussop was feeling in Dressrosa. There was also a moment where I remember Moster trio was sleeping in a room n Luffy asked other 2 that can they feel it or not where they replied yes they can feel something approaching. His haki isn't that weak as you think. Even in Dressrosa he was trying to figure how Pica's power work till the end.


Every VA is trained in Haki. I am not challenging it as he has excellent Armament Haki. The whole undercover thing has nothing to do with Observation Haki.
Another point that he anticipated Smoker coming from behind means he has excellent CoO makes no sense as guys like Crocodile(who isn't listed in CoO) has shown similar feats in MF arc.
Now to strengthem my point a good CoO user will atleast try to dodge or block the attacks of his opponents. Vergo only did that once. So even if we say he got CoO its not that good as you think it is.


Ahhhhh....... Law use his df abilities in his sword. He isn't a regular swordsman like Mihawk, Zoro. Also Law not killing him straight means he wanted Vergo to feel his death.
Both of them lost to a similar attack.
Besides I already gave u the scan where they both said the same thing that u can't cut me but u ignored it.
I even gave u the scan where Pica was said to be Highest Executive u still ignored it.
So here's a thing if u have to make a tier list of Doffy's executives/henchmen where will u put Pica and Vergo???

Just because Zoro showed signs of CoO before, doesn't make him a proficient user. You keep ignoring the fact that he struggled during the fight with it. Even Luffy showed big growth. In Fishman Island he described Caribou's presence as a 'beast' without understanding exactly who or what entered the palace. Luffy clearly the most proficient user with the biggest growth rate didn't have the best CoO back then, a few arcs later he is tapping into future seeing stuff. That is how growth works. Just because he had it before doesn't mean it's on the same level now.

AND FOR THE 10TH TIME!!! It's not about fucking Zoro. Zoro is the benchmark, he could sense Pica. So if he can sense Pica with limited CoO, then so can Vergo.

You're dismissing the Vice-admiral fact. That's fine but it's still a manga fact. So you can say whatever, but that doesn't make you right. As VA Vergo had to be trained in haki.

Suddenly Crocodile and Dogtooth dodging are being pulled into this to prove that Vergo doesn't have CoO, how stupid. If someone can dodge a blow from behind without looking and bend out of the way perfectly and at the right time. I don't think it get's more CoO than that.

Pica and Vergo didn't lost to a similar attack. because one was physical and the other one was magical. And it was shown that his physical defense was unparalleled, so there is a chance that a real similar attack wouldn't have worked on him. They can still both say the same thing, but that doesn't say anything about their level. I think Kuro and Lucci said the same thing about being too fast to touch, does that make them just as fast ? That is what you're implying.


Henchmen list:

If we take Law as a benchmark he will be 100, since he had most experience fighting both Vergo and Trebol

Law - 100
Vergo - 90
Diamante - 70
Pica - 70
Trebol - 50

Thats my list

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Law >=Zoro > Vergo > Pica

 

[Easyfathom]

Lol Dogtooth fight -Luffy has to try everything to hit him n most of the time he actually dodged/ blocked Luffy's hits.


Not again. Zoro has passed the moment in Alabasta what Ussop was feeling in Dressrosa. There was also a moment where I remember Moster trio was sleeping in a room n Luffy asked other 2 that can they feel it or not where they replied yes they can feel something approaching. His haki isn't that weak as you think. Even in Dressrosa he was trying to figure how Pica's power work till the end.


Every VA is trained in Haki. I am not challenging it as he has excellent Armament Haki. The whole undercover thing has nothing to do with Observation Haki.
Another point that he anticipated Smoker coming from behind means he has excellent CoO makes no sense as guys like Crocodile(who isn't listed in CoO) has shown similar feats in MF arc.
Now to strengthem my point a good CoO user will atleast try to dodge or block the attacks of his opponents. Vergo only did that once. So even if we say he got CoO its not that good as you think it is.


Ahhhhh....... Law use his df abilities in his sword. He isn't a regular swordsman like Mihawk, Zoro. Also Law not killing him straight means he wanted Vergo to feel his death.
Both of them lost to a similar attack.
Besides I already gave u the scan where they both said the same thing that u can't cut me but u ignored it.
I even gave u the scan where Pica was said to be Highest Executive u still ignored it.
So here's a thing if u have to make a tier list of Doffy's executives/henchmen where will u put Pica and Vergo???

Just to jump in real quick, you're missing the part where Law (a person who has intimately been involved with Doffy and his family reference Vergo as being his "most valued subordinate"

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So that Pica bit where some no name says he's the highest executive is rubbish and with Vergo being undercover no one would know he's affiliated he's with Doffy. Yet of course Law did and knows more that Vergo is Doffy's most valued.