salamander uchiha
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He doesn't even know that DM capable Naruto admitted he would die against Sasuke. The only foreknowledge Nsruto had of Sasuke was CS2 capable Sasuke he fought in the cave.
Sage Mode Naruto vs Hebi Sasuke (REALLY NEED HELP, Cant decide)
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ShogunSpiderman89
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1. Base Sasuke isn't quick enough to dodge Sage Mode Naruto's Rasenshuriken and since you're the MS in his base form. He couldn't even dodge Killer Bee's sword slashes and you're the one downplaying if anything because before getting pinned Sage Mode Naruto close to destroying Tendo twice in chapter 433. Sage Mode came close to destroying the majority of the Pein Dolls and Hebi Sasuke doesn't have the MS nor the Amatersu, so that negates your argument on him using the Amaterasu on the scroll. Taka Sasuke has the MS and Amaterasu. If Google Sasuke awakens the MS you'll see for yourself. I'm aware of the 5 minute time limit, but it doesn't matter as shown from chapters 430-32.
Hebi Sasuke needed the cursemark to absorb a weakned Orochimaru and combat Deidra who were both weaker than Jiraya and Sage Mode Naruto was stated to be stronger than him at the end of chapter 430, so if anything he'd lose with the cursemark in response to him not needing it. Hebi Sasuke Sasuke can't dodge the Rasenshuriken because it almost killed the majority of the Pein Dolls in chapter 432 I believe. The senbon won't do anything to him. It would bounce off because of the durability that Sage Mode has
2. He was at 100% when he was fighting Deidra. He weakned himself because Deidra implanted the mini bombs. If he was as fast as you made him out to be he would've dodged that no problem. Sage Mode increases Naruto's reflexes, which Hebi Sasuke doesn't have, so he's in no way faster than Sage Mode Naruto as he surpassed Jiraya as explained by Fukkasaku in the end of chapter 430
3. The Toads withstood hits from Peins Summoning Jutsu, so they can take Manda.
4. Once again MS Sasuke is irrelavant to this topic because Hebi Sasuke doesn't even the MS. Taka Sasuke does. Remember Team Hebi was changed into Team Taka when Sasuke awoken the MS. Google Sasuke awakens the MS and come back to me. Training 3 years with Orochimaru is irrelavant because of what I said in sencond paragraph of No.1 and Sasuke had more time to train for the cursemark as opposed to Naruto having limited time and once again he still surpassed Jiraya as I explained in No.1 and 2.
The second part you mentioned was at the Kage Summit where Sasuke didn't even have the cursemark anymore and you should rewatch Sasuke vs Itachi and come back to me.
5. Sasuke used the Dragon Flame Jutsu at least 5x to make the Kirin that failed to do it's job that powerful, which is why I said it would take prep time to make a really powerful one and was only able to do it because Itachi allowed it as explained in chapter 401. AP is still more powerful than the Kirin for the obvious fact that it can basically everything in it's path and Tendo only needs 5 seconds to recharge.
Even if Hebi Sasuke could make the Kirin he'd still need to go at high altitude for it to work not to mention that the Rasenshuriken could negate it because lightning is vunerable to wind as Kirin is a lightning style jutsu and Rasenshuriken is wind style.
The cave situation was before got Sage Mode, so that's also irrelvant as well because the topic is Sage Mode Naruto vs Hebi Sasuke not Base Naruto vs Hebi Sasuke or Sage Mode Naruto vs Taka Sasuke aka MS
Sasuke
Hebi Sasuke needed the cursemark to absorb a weakned Orochimaru and combat Deidra who were both weaker than Jiraya and Sage Mode Naruto was stated to be stronger than him at the end of chapter 430, so if anything he'd lose with the cursemark in response to him not needing it. Hebi Sasuke Sasuke can't dodge the Rasenshuriken because it almost killed the majority of the Pein Dolls in chapter 432 I believe. The senbon won't do anything to him. It would bounce off because of the durability that Sage Mode has
2. He was at 100% when he was fighting Deidra. He weakned himself because Deidra implanted the mini bombs. If he was as fast as you made him out to be he would've dodged that no problem. Sage Mode increases Naruto's reflexes, which Hebi Sasuke doesn't have, so he's in no way faster than Sage Mode Naruto as he surpassed Jiraya as explained by Fukkasaku in the end of chapter 430
3. The Toads withstood hits from Peins Summoning Jutsu, so they can take Manda.
4. Once again MS Sasuke is irrelavant to this topic because Hebi Sasuke doesn't even the MS. Taka Sasuke does. Remember Team Hebi was changed into Team Taka when Sasuke awoken the MS. Google Sasuke awakens the MS and come back to me. Training 3 years with Orochimaru is irrelavant because of what I said in sencond paragraph of No.1 and Sasuke had more time to train for the cursemark as opposed to Naruto having limited time and once again he still surpassed Jiraya as I explained in No.1 and 2.
The second part you mentioned was at the Kage Summit where Sasuke didn't even have the cursemark anymore and you should rewatch Sasuke vs Itachi and come back to me.
5. Sasuke used the Dragon Flame Jutsu at least 5x to make the Kirin that failed to do it's job that powerful, which is why I said it would take prep time to make a really powerful one and was only able to do it because Itachi allowed it as explained in chapter 401. AP is still more powerful than the Kirin for the obvious fact that it can basically everything in it's path and Tendo only needs 5 seconds to recharge.
Even if Hebi Sasuke could make the Kirin he'd still need to go at high altitude for it to work not to mention that the Rasenshuriken could negate it because lightning is vunerable to wind as Kirin is a lightning style jutsu and Rasenshuriken is wind style.
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When he said that it was the Kage Summit and it was about Taka Sasuke who lost the cursemark goung back to his battle against Itachi and the foreknowledge is a bad argument because Sasuke didn't have knowledge of Sage Mode and didn't even hear about it at all until he had the EMS implanted in him when fight Kabuto.
The cave situation was before got Sage Mode, so that's also irrelvant as well because the topic is Sage Mode Naruto vs Hebi Sasuke not Base Naruto vs Hebi Sasuke or Sage Mode Naruto vs Taka Sasuke aka MS
Sasuke
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ShogunSpiderman89
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Also by the time Hebi Sasuke prepares for the Kirin Sage Mode Naruto can just prepare 2 Oodama Rasengans not to mention like I said before Sasuke had to use the Dragon Flame Jutsu at least 5x to help prepare for the Kirin that used on Itachi
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salamander uchiha
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Doesn't matter ift's Taka Sasuke, Naruto doesn't know anything about any new abilities or MS. Naruto only has foreknowledge of the Sasuke he fought in the cave and got whopped by. Naruto who has SM access at the time he met Taka Sasuke, but only knew about cave Sasuke admitted he would die. Sasuke doesn't need foreknowledge he didn't admit he would die, his knowledge is irrelevant in this instance.
You're argument holds no weight.
ShogunSpiderman89
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You're assuming he can decipher between the real Naruto and the SC, which he couldn't even do in chapter 697
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You're wrong on this. The Sand siblings told Naruto what happened at the Summit. They saw Amaterasu, Enton, & Susano'o (ribcage and the Imperfect form).
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You still don't get it. I know the difference between Hebi and Taka Sasuke. I was speaking in favor of both forms. About how they're superior to SM Naruto. I spoke mainly about Hebi. The one Taka feat i mentioned was Amaterasu.
RS needs to be thrown from a distance, Base Sasuke has shown multiple times that he could perform multiple actions in the blank of an eye. You must be forgetting about his feats.
Against Bee he still wasn't recovered from his battle against Itachi and underestimated Bee. He didn't even activate his Sharingan til he was in the midst of the sword clash.
He needed to absorb Orochimaru to combat Itachi whom he had previously told Naruto that he and Orochimaru alone were weaker than Itachi. A holding back Sasuke was already shown outclassing Deidara without even using his Curse Mark let alone Orochimaru's power, so it's ridiculous that you are acting like he needed it to beat Deidara.
As for Jiraiya and Naruto. Being weaker doesn't automatically mean someone will lose. In the imgur link i already said SM Naruto was stronger but overall Hebi is the superior fighter. You're really overlooking Sage mode's limitations aswell as Sasuke's perception, versatility, speed, and intelligence.
Sharingan precognition and greater speed. Senbon wrecks the summoning scroll and Chidori Stream halts all close combat.
Healthwise yes, he was still holding back though.
It's ironic that you're trying to use that scene to downplay him given it's yet another speed feat. Buttom line, he was much quicker than Deidara and only had trouble at the end because he shocked himself with Chidori.
He already has godlike speed in base, now add in his Sharingan's precognition, and the Curse Mark's physical enhancement. I never said he was quicker than Naruto. I said he was quick enough to evade RS. RS doesn't have legs to run. Don't act like. It's as fast as Naruto himself.
Gamabunta was getting bodied by Manda who was handling the summomings. If anything you should be acknowledging Manda as being above.
Your comprehension skills are severly lacking. I've already explained myself multiple times.
The point was if Sasuke never knew about EMS he wouldn't have relied on the MS so much. I based this on 1) pure logic - why would he allow himself to go blind with no way to overcome it & 2) his track record. He had previously gained a power up that gave him a big boost yet he still trained to hone everything else. So obviously if EMS wasn't an option he would most likely hone his other abilities and skills so he wouldn't need to use his MS much.
You're clearly forgetting how fast Kirin is. And since you're so focused on prep time - Sasuke destroys Naruto before he even enters Sage Mode. Speed blitz him like he did at Orochimaru's hideout.
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ShogunSpiderman89
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The Kage Summit has nothing with to do with this topic not Hebi.
1. I read the imgur and nearly everythimg was about Taka Sasuke not Hebi Sasuke and the only you mentioned him was with the statement with Zetsu and you even got that wrong because that was Taka Sasuke who said that.
2. He was healthy throughout the whole battle and Sasuke only held back at the beginning of the fight and shocked himself because Deidra put the mini bombs inside off him, so he had no choice and he wasn't holding back when surviving the explosion, which he even said in chapter 363.
3. I explained mine as well because MS Sasuke was irrelvant to the topic because awakening the MS Team Hebi became Team Taka.
4. Manda didn't body Gamabunta. Gamabunta domimated him the majority and came close to cutting his head off. The only time Manda had an edge over him was when tried eat him from behind and then Tsunade intervened and even if Manda was trouble for Gamabunta Sage Mode Naruto would slam
5.He was asked by Obito if he was going to implant Itachi's. He said no because he couldn't follow in his footsteps in the end of chapter 403 and if you want to use that logic Sasuke only awoken the MS because Obito told him the truth about Itachi, which wouldn't have happened if Itachi dien't help the scenario
6. Hebi Sasuke can't move at Godlike Speed. This is just databooks giving misinformation. They also said that Itachi's Totskua sends it's enemies into a genjustu and there's no proof they were written by Kishi either if you intend on making that argument or that they're official. Someone who can move at Godlike Speed wouldn't have got the mini bombs implanted in him. If the Rasenshuriken can come to hitting Tendo Pein twice before getting pinned in chapter 433.
7. I'm aware of the speed of the Kirin. I've already seen it in action when he used against Itachi as his failed final trump card and Sasuke ran out chakra to make the Kirin that powerful in the failed attempt and he was able to do it because Itachi allowed it as explained in chapter 401, which you're still ignoring and Sage Mode would tank it anyway because of it's durability. Orochimaru's hideout was before Naruto learned Sage Mode not afterwards and no he wouldn't speed blitz him. Sage Mode Naruto would sense him wherever he goes. 5 minutes isn't a problem because of what he did in chapters 430-32.
Edit: Senbon won't do anything. Fukkasaku and Shima can block Hebi Sasuke's visual prowness like they did with Pein and as all for all combat. In close Sage Mode Naruto can do Frog Kumite to that could knock Hebi Sasuke out easily and Chidori Stream has limited range. Rasenshuriken doesn't.
1. I read the imgur and nearly everythimg was about Taka Sasuke not Hebi Sasuke and the only you mentioned him was with the statement with Zetsu and you even got that wrong because that was Taka Sasuke who said that.
2. He was healthy throughout the whole battle and Sasuke only held back at the beginning of the fight and shocked himself because Deidra put the mini bombs inside off him, so he had no choice and he wasn't holding back when surviving the explosion, which he even said in chapter 363.
3. I explained mine as well because MS Sasuke was irrelvant to the topic because awakening the MS Team Hebi became Team Taka.
4. Manda didn't body Gamabunta. Gamabunta domimated him the majority and came close to cutting his head off. The only time Manda had an edge over him was when tried eat him from behind and then Tsunade intervened and even if Manda was trouble for Gamabunta Sage Mode Naruto would slam
5.He was asked by Obito if he was going to implant Itachi's. He said no because he couldn't follow in his footsteps in the end of chapter 403 and if you want to use that logic Sasuke only awoken the MS because Obito told him the truth about Itachi, which wouldn't have happened if Itachi dien't help the scenario
6. Hebi Sasuke can't move at Godlike Speed. This is just databooks giving misinformation. They also said that Itachi's Totskua sends it's enemies into a genjustu and there's no proof they were written by Kishi either if you intend on making that argument or that they're official. Someone who can move at Godlike Speed wouldn't have got the mini bombs implanted in him. If the Rasenshuriken can come to hitting Tendo Pein twice before getting pinned in chapter 433.
7. I'm aware of the speed of the Kirin. I've already seen it in action when he used against Itachi as his failed final trump card and Sasuke ran out chakra to make the Kirin that powerful in the failed attempt and he was able to do it because Itachi allowed it as explained in chapter 401, which you're still ignoring and Sage Mode would tank it anyway because of it's durability. Orochimaru's hideout was before Naruto learned Sage Mode not afterwards and no he wouldn't speed blitz him. Sage Mode Naruto would sense him wherever he goes. 5 minutes isn't a problem because of what he did in chapters 430-32.
Edit: Senbon won't do anything. Fukkasaku and Shima can block Hebi Sasuke's visual prowness like they did with Pein and as all for all combat. In close Sage Mode Naruto can do Frog Kumite to that could knock Hebi Sasuke out easily and Chidori Stream has limited range. Rasenshuriken doesn't.
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ShogunSpiderman89
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1) Your comprehension is abysmal. Again, the post was about Hebi and MS Sasuke>SM Naruto. I started off by debunking Zetsu's statement about SM Naruto being stronger than that current Taka Sasuke. Then i explained how Pre Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke was better.
2) BS. He was holding back the entire time because he wanted Deidara alive to question him about Itachi which he repeatedly did from start to end.
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In chapter 363 he only said Deidara was stronger than he anticipated.
4) Katsuyu made the first move which Manda easily evaded and captured him. She was about to be eaten then Gamabunta intervened which Manda was still able to counter easily while holding and constricting Katsuyu who then split apart to escape. Manda then attacked Gamabunta twice with both being evaded. Afterward Jiraiya and Gamabunta tried double teaming which Manda countered alone, tricking them both. Manda fooled Gamabunta again, and outsped him. He was about to be eaten then Tsunade intervened.
Manda>>>>>>Gamabunta. He was tricked and greatly outsped twice. Manda managed to shed all his skin in the midst of both Gamabunta and Jiraiya's team attack, hide underground without being seen, surprise attack Gama, fooling him into thinking he was attacking from infront when he was really coming from behind with a speed blitz which Tsunade had to save him from.
5) Just accept the fact that Sasuke used MS so much because he knew he would be able to overcome it with EMS. Without this possibility he would very likely return to training so he could hone his other abilities and skills rather than rely on the Mangekyo.
6) He was stated to have godlike speed based on his feats. He has shown to be able to perform multiple actions in the blink of an eye with absolute ease multiple times. In base he was able to cross the distance between himself and Naruto before the others could even do anything about it. In chapter 349 he was able to cross a wide distance, slash a CM2 user several times, then get a distance away, before the guy could even react In chapter 351, he not only got in between Suigetsu and Jugo right when they were about to hit each other, but he was also able to summon two giant snakes which completely wrapped around them before they even noticed. In chapter 357, he summoned a snake to shield himself from Deidara's surprise attack, and he even reacted to Deidara's ultimate explosion in time.
Your downplaying is ineffective. The nano bombs were breathed in while he was standing next to Deidara.
7) Overhyping SM's speed and durability again. Kirin obliterates.
Ironic how you downplay Chidori Stream due to range yet not Frog Kata which can only be done in close range. That's the point. Chidori Stream would keep Naruto from getting close to use it. RS needs to be thrown froms distance. Sasuke would evade.
ShogunSpiderman89
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1. Sage Mode Naruto> Heb Sasuke. Ms Sasuke isn't relevant to the topic because this a Sage Mode Naruto vs Hebi Sasuke topic.
2. You left out where Deidra duped him with 1 of his clay clones in that same chapter and put the mini bombs inside his body and you don't need to show me links. I watched the whole fight and you left out a couple of other pieces in those chapters as well
3. Manda only gained th upper once in that entire battle when he atk Gambunta from behind and even if he too much for Gamabunta Fukkasaku and Shima could just put him in a genjutsu. You're assuming would work with Sasuke. If anything it's likely he leaves and tries to eat him after the battle is over.
4. Accept what? That Sasuke knew about the side effects going back to his battle and Obito even said that using the Susanoo and Amatersu wasn't smart when he was facing Danzo and without the MS he wouldn't be as powerful, so your argument is a lousy 1.
5. Killing a few prisoners is nothing special nor is breaking upand it was Jugo who did the slashing. Sasuke didn't have physical involvement aside breaking up a fight
This is impressive.
In response to 357 you still ignore that Sasuke said it was a close call in chapter 363. Suigetsu was wondering why he was hurt after transporting to another dimension. Sasuke literally said that he didn't expect the damage to be so powerful, so no he can't move at Godlike Speed and he barely dodged in time, which once again he admitted in chapter 363.
No Chidori stream does have limited range, which was shown when he was fighting, which was shown when he was fighting, which was 1 of the reasons he used the cursemark
I mentioned Frog Kumite in response to close range and if the Tendo's AP couldn't damage his body when in Sage Mode neither would the chidori stream or Kirin and as overhyoing I could say the same about you because the Kirin that Itachi allowed Sasuke to use on him it took a load of chakra for him to do would be at the same power level in this fight, so yes it would tank it assuming Hebi Sasuke would be able to pull it and by the time he does so.
He wouldn't get that luxery with Sage Mode Naruto and by the time he prapres for the Kirin Sage Mode can also created 2 Oodama Rasengan to hit him before he even gets th chace and assuming that he can't tank it like you said the Oodama Rasengans could take the impact in his and it's not like the SC would just stand and simply let him use it either and I doubt Hebi Sasuke could defeat even a SC, when they're in Sage Mode
2. You left out where Deidra duped him with 1 of his clay clones in that same chapter and put the mini bombs inside his body and you don't need to show me links. I watched the whole fight and you left out a couple of other pieces in those chapters as well
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3. Manda only gained th upper once in that entire battle when he atk Gambunta from behind and even if he too much for Gamabunta Fukkasaku and Shima could just put him in a genjutsu. You're assuming would work with Sasuke. If anything it's likely he leaves and tries to eat him after the battle is over.
4. Accept what? That Sasuke knew about the side effects going back to his battle and Obito even said that using the Susanoo and Amatersu wasn't smart when he was facing Danzo and without the MS he wouldn't be as powerful, so your argument is a lousy 1.
5. Killing a few prisoners is nothing special nor is breaking upand it was Jugo who did the slashing. Sasuke didn't have physical involvement aside breaking up a fight
This is impressive.
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In response to 357 you still ignore that Sasuke said it was a close call in chapter 363. Suigetsu was wondering why he was hurt after transporting to another dimension. Sasuke literally said that he didn't expect the damage to be so powerful, so no he can't move at Godlike Speed and he barely dodged in time, which once again he admitted in chapter 363.
No Chidori stream does have limited range, which was shown when he was fighting, which was shown when he was fighting, which was 1 of the reasons he used the cursemark
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I mentioned Frog Kumite in response to close range and if the Tendo's AP couldn't damage his body when in Sage Mode neither would the chidori stream or Kirin and as overhyoing I could say the same about you because the Kirin that Itachi allowed Sasuke to use on him it took a load of chakra for him to do would be at the same power level in this fight, so yes it would tank it assuming Hebi Sasuke would be able to pull it and by the time he does so.
He wouldn't get that luxery with Sage Mode Naruto and by the time he prapres for the Kirin Sage Mode can also created 2 Oodama Rasengan to hit him before he even gets th chace and assuming that he can't tank it like you said the Oodama Rasengans could take the impact in his and it's not like the SC would just stand and simply let him use it either and I doubt Hebi Sasuke could defeat even a SC, when they're in Sage Mode
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salamander uchiha
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I'm not Naruto only saw the MS and black flames and made reference to them during the war arc. The same time Sasuke became aware of Naruto's new powers. The sand siblings only told them, about the attack o summint and the results of the summit.
