As I said, Sage Mode and the chakra flow should be able to weaken the genjutsu effect. Now add that to the fact that physical trauma barely hurts him ( he got blasted point blank by Asura and lived through it ) and it should affect him much less.
People that are skilled in genjutsu also have a bigger resistance to it. If Itachi was caught in Sasuke's Tsukuyomi he would probably be able to turn it against him.
Genjutsu is created when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their mind, thereby affecting their five senses. Those with special abilities like the Uchiha clan's Sharingan — which can cast generic genjutsu — or with high intelligence have an easier time executing and countering genjutsu, as attention to detail is key.
Breaking Tsukuyomi is possible with an ordinary Sharingan, but requires a lot of skill.
Those were physical injuries. No mental torture. Having one's arm cut off is nothing compared to having one's arm cut off repeatedly for 72 hours while being on fire and nailed to a cross through one's eyes, which is totally within the realms of possibility inside Tsukuyomi. In fact, however, those extravagant cruelties won't be necessary, as Sennin Modo may offer impressive physical endurance to both damage and pain, but those purely physical improvements hold no value inside the realm of Tsukuyomi, where Itachi controls the very limitations of everything.
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Jiraiya's mind is just as vulnerable as it is elsewise; Sennin Modo does not serve like some sort of mental shield. His mind is no different to Kakashi's, who collapsed and fell into coma for several weeks after being spared by Itachi.
Furthermore, Fukasaku and Shima do not grant any sort of automatical immunity to Genjutsu once they're on his shoulders and gather Senchakra for him. Simple Chakra replacement, in case it actually happens constantly, does not equal Chakra disruption, which is necessary when one's Chakra flow is being altered and messed up by Genjutsu [
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] [
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]. That disruption, however, must be done manually, which will be impossible in case of Tsukuyomi [
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]. Though the illusion feels like days, it happens in an instant; there won't be any time to cancel it, as it will be already over once either of the toads notices it.
Apart from that, your attempts at proving Jiraiya's (partial) immunity to Tsukuyomi become more and more adventurous, to a point where they're severely scratching your credibility. Being skilled at Genjutsu, which Jiraiya not even is, will not weaken its effects. That supposed proof you brought up is but a quote from narutopedia, which you cannot back up with content of the acual manga. Orochimaru, who was considered a genius and has been given the highest possible databook score for Genjutsu, was completely helpless against Itachi's non-Mangekyou-based illusion. Being skilled at Genjutsu has no influence on the illusion's actual effects but rather helps you breaking it, which is impossible when it comes to Tsukuyomi. The Sharingan is a specific case, as its analytical nature explicitly allows it to see right through Genjutsu. Even then, Sasuke had to strengthen his matured Sharingan by means of his Juin in order to break Tsukuyomi. [
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]
There obviusly are more options for Itachi to take out Jiriya, but I just felt like clearing up Tsukuyomi.
Narutopedia bases their content on databooks and the actual manga, but the content itself is written by ordnary fans. They're not always copying content 1:1, but rather use their own formulations and often interpretations, which often leads to statements that are outright wrong or not proven by any canon source.
at this distance genjutsu wont be itachis first move. amat has a decent distance vs big targets but jiraiya will be moving with SM level speed. its gonna be nigh impossible to get a lock on him for mid range amaterasu. also first thing jiraiya will do is sink itachi in swamp of the underworld. its a basic move and huge in scale. then he does needle jizou and forces itachi to susano. itachis lost the initiative. jiraiya moves to finish him off with frog song.
Itachi is healthy and won't go blind unless he spams Amaterasu recklessly.
Jiraiya starts in SM, fused with the two sage toads.
Itachi starts in Susanoo if he wants to.
Distance: 50 meters
Location: Konoha Crater ( nowhere to hide, straightforward fight )
Why I believe Jiraiya wins:
1. Continous Sage Mode - with the 2 sage toads fused with him, he has an endless Sage Chakra pool. 2. His SM speed: he's very, very fast in this form.
3. Jiraiya's huge chakra reserves compared to Itachi's. 4. Hype. Itachi said he could only get a draw against Jiraiya and he was with Kisame. He also probably had no idea about Sage Mode. 5. Continous chakra flux + 2 toads next to him means he should be immune to genjutsu.
@Bold 1: When has Jiraya ever showed any super speed feats in SM the only one that has was Naruto when he blitzed that Pain body with a rasengan.
@Bold 2: Hype is worthless in a versus thread. That was obviously a excuse so he could let konoha's strongest shinobi live there's no way Jiraya would have dodged amaterasu in that hotel room that they were fighting in.
In SM, Jiraya has Pa and Ma on his shoulders all the time, which means that the use of genjutsu will be useless since they could just disturb his chakra like the partner method works. In this case, only Tsukuyomi could be a problem since it takes effect in an instant, but personally i believe that the fact that Jiraya continuously receive sennin mode chakra makes the use of even tsukuyomi useless against him:
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For those who don't believe in what i said, there is still counters for Tsukuyomi that Jiraya can use like using
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for example. Jiraya has a large chakra pool, so using Kage Bunshins as a bet is not a problem for him. He even already has
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by seeing Itachi using it on Sasuke and
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caused by the genjutsu in question, so he would obviously be more cautious if he were to fight Itachi if he wasn't already(he must obviously have great knowledge on Sharingan judging by his experience and the fact he was able to easily dispel Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu on
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).
People always fail to realise that genjutsu(in particularly tsukuyomi) isn't automatic. A direct eye contact is needed for genjutsu and even when this direct eye contact happens, Itachi still has to concentrate the chakra necessary for the genjutsu rapidely and cast the genjutsu at that exact same moment. Furthermore, tsukuyomi is a MS jutsu, so Itachi has to activate MS to even begin to think about using tsukuyomi. Itachi can't cast tsukuyomi with Sharingan let alone without it. If Jiraya notices that Itachi turned his Sharingan into MS, again, he would be more cautious. Also, tsukuyomi is even described in the databook as a
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, so if Jiraya uses long range attacks and fight carefully, i don't see why he would be trapped by tsukuyomi
How Jiraya counters Amaterasu:
Jman already has
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. So he would be really cautious if he were to fight Itachi. Contrary to the popular belief, amaterasu is a
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that appears instantly withing a certain range, and from there begins
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the target(it's the reason why eventhough it almost appeared on Raikage, he had time to shunshin out of the way) and
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depending on where the user focuses. What i mean by that is that if a target is outside the range of amaterasu, it would be easier for him to notice it and therefore counter it with something in his arsenal. Sasuke for example was able
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during a while and use a
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to counter the jutsu. Killer-Bee also used a subtitution when he had no knowledge on the jutsu, and with knowledge he has shown that it was even able
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before he uses Amaterasu(which shows btw that Amaterasu needs some time of concentration to be released).
Jman with his superior speed/taijutsu and sensing abilities could do the same if not better. Jiraya who even already has knowledge on the jutsu, also has natural counters for this like
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(burning a KB is useless). Even without knowledge in part1, he directly created a counter for it in an instant with a
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In Sage Mode, he even has sensing abilities, and we've seen that a sensor like Nagato could
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by noticing the pressure. Therefore, he can attack the user before he even uses it like Killer-Bee did. Since Itachi needs some concentration at that moment like we see on the same pic, Jiraya could take advantage of this like Bee did, and Itachi could be killed by
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for example, or even
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or by this:
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How does Jiraya counter Susanoo:
Gaara helped us to know that
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. Well, Jiraya has a perfect counter for this with
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(Jiraya even said it was
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). It would totally make sink Itachi in this position with or without his Susanoo
If they are fighting in an enclosed area, Jiraya could capture him(Susanoo or not) in
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like he already did in part1. He can also create an opening to capture him in the
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like he did against Pain
Sasuke made us understand
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because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have
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(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Jiraya to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his
Motha Fukka orochimaru got powened by itachi so what the fukk makes you think that jairiah being weaker means he could beat itachi....
Itachi i pretty much untouchable with susanoo and too smart
In SM, Jiraya has Pa and Ma on his shoulders all the time, which means that the use of genjutsu will be useless since they could just disturb his chakra like the partner method works. In this case, only Tsukuyomi could be a problem since it takes effect in an instant, but personally i believe that the fact that Jiraya continuously receive sennin mode chakra makes the use of even tsukuyomi useless against him:
You must be registered for see images
For those who don't believe in what i said, there is still counters for Tsukuyomi that Jiraya can use like using
You must be registered for see links
for example. Jiraya has a large chakra pool, so using Kage Bunshins as a bet is not a problem for him. He even already has
You must be registered for see links
by seeing Itachi using it on Sasuke and
You must be registered for see links
caused by the genjutsu in question, so he would obviously be more cautious if he were to fight Itachi if he wasn't already(he must obviously have great knowledge on Sharingan judging by his experience and the fact he was able to easily dispel Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu on
You must be registered for see links
).
People always fail to realise that genjutsu(in particularly tsukuyomi) isn't automatic. A direct eye contact is needed for genjutsu and even when this direct eye contact happens, Itachi still has to concentrate the chakra necessary for the genjutsu rapidely and cast the genjutsu at that exact same moment. Furthermore, tsukuyomi is a MS jutsu, so Itachi has to activate MS to even begin to think about using tsukuyomi. Itachi can't cast tsukuyomi with Sharingan let alone without it. If Jiraya notices that Itachi turned his Sharingan into MS, again, he would be more cautious. Also, tsukuyomi is even described in the databook as a
You must be registered for see links
, so if Jiraya uses long range attacks and fight carefully, i don't see why he would be trapped by tsukuyomi
How Jiraya counters Amaterasu:
Jman already has
You must be registered for see links
. So he would be really cautious if he were to fight Itachi. Contrary to the popular belief, amaterasu is a
You must be registered for see links
that appears instantly withing a certain range, and from there begins
You must be registered for see links
the target(it's the reason why eventhough it almost appeared on Raikage, he had time to shunshin out of the way) and
You must be registered for see links
depending on where the user focuses. What i mean by that is that if a target is outside the range of amaterasu, it would be easier for him to notice it and therefore counter it with something in his arsenal. Sasuke for example was able
You must be registered for see links
during a while and use a
You must be registered for see links
to counter the jutsu. Killer-Bee also used a subtitution when he had no knowledge on the jutsu, and with knowledge he has shown that it was even able
You must be registered for see links
before he uses Amaterasu(which shows btw that Amaterasu needs some time of concentration to be released).
Jman with his superior speed/taijutsu and sensing abilities could do the same if not better. Jiraya who even already has knowledge on the jutsu, also has natural counters for this like
You must be registered for see links
(burning a KB is useless). Even without knowledge in part1, he directly created a counter for it in an instant with a
You must be registered for see links
In Sage Mode, he even has sensing abilities, and we've seen that a sensor like Nagato could
You must be registered for see links
by noticing the pressure. Therefore, he can attack the user before he even uses it like Killer-Bee did. Since Itachi needs some concentration at that moment like we see on the same pic, Jiraya could take advantage of this like Bee did, and Itachi could be killed by
You must be registered for see links
for example, or even
You must be registered for see links
or by this:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
How does Jiraya counter Susanoo:
Gaara helped us to know that
You must be registered for see links
. Well, Jiraya has a perfect counter for this with
You must be registered for see links
(Jiraya even said it was
You must be registered for see links
). It would totally make sink Itachi in this position with or without his Susanoo
If they are fighting in an enclosed area, Jiraya could capture him(Susanoo or not) in
You must be registered for see links
like he already did in part1. He can also create an opening to capture him in the
You must be registered for see links
like he did against Pain
Sasuke made us understand
You must be registered for see links
because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have
You must be registered for see links
(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Jiraya to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his
Your posts have nothing to do with the debate. I post my arguments simply, yet you can do nothing else than whining. Because you have no counters, you post craps. As expected from a Uchiha fanboy hating everyone else stronger than them
Your posts have nothing to do with the debate. I post my arguments simply, yet you can do nothing else than whining. Because you have no counters, you post craps. As expected from a Uchiha fanboy hating everyone else stronger than them
How often has this topic been discussed? And yet you want to bring up arguments which are already outdated. I would just need to quote myself from older threads.
Itachi destroys Jiraiya, what can frogman do gainst Amaterasu and Itachi's intelligense to use it, all frogs can be controled with sharingan easily and even control one Gamabunta would be enaugh for the defense against all others toads so that's it
P.S. Genjutsu
Itachi destroys Jiraiya, what can frogman do gainst Amaterasu and Itachi's intelligense to use it, all frogs can be controled with sharingan easily and even control one Gamabunta would be enaugh for the defense against all others toads so that's it
P.S. Genjutsu
According to Bogard, the techniques of the Mangekyou Sharingan will be countered by the usage of Kagebunshin. Itachi however makes also use of Kaegbunshin. According to him, Jiraiya has superior speed and possesses sensing abilities, what is in Jiraiyas case unproven. He was talking about something that Amaterasu is a close range Ninjutsu that travels and Tsukuyomi needs concentration before it affects, what is a benefit for Jiraiya. No, that is too much of trolling.
