Despite being separated, Yin Kurama's personality mirrors yang Kurama's personality. It should not object given the stakes involved. Minato's silence on this is glaring.
Regardless of the information provided, it is still an ass-pull and no information was properly given to him having SM.
1. If you look at the Toad contract, the only two names that are mentioned there that we can see is Naruto's and Jiraya's. If Minato's is there, then why is his name before Jiraya's and Naruto's? It doesn't make sense that Minato's teacher's name would be after his name when we all know Jiraya is older than him. Unless Jiraya decided to skip a space and then it's highly unlikely.
2. No one on the village, not even Ma, Pa or Gamabunta, mention anything to Naruto about Minato knowing SM. In fact, Kakashi himself states that Jiraya (and many confirm it) was the only person in the village capable of using SM. Now, why would he not have known about Minato using it? Or, why would Minato NEVER use it in a battle? Yes, we can say his Yellow Flash technique is better, but the fact that no one acknowledged that Minato knew or trained in Sage jutsu is hard to believe.
3. Minato gained access to his SM rather quickly in the manga. In fact, he gained it in a way that Pa stated COULD NOT BE DONE! Previously to going into SM, Minato actually throws his Kunia towards Madara's foot and then the next panel he has his SM. Do you know why that can't be? Because SM requires that you remain perfectly still while gathering natural energy. Any type of movement and you disrupt that flow and you either lose the ability to absorb it or you turn into a toad. Pa even mentions this as he states Naruto cannot move an inch. However, Minato turns into his SM right after he throws a Kunai.
4. Kurama has NOTHING to do with going into SM only allowing Ma and Pa to hitch a ride to absorb the natural energy. All Minato had to do was release his BM and start gathering natural energy. That's it. The fact that people are using this as an excuse puzzles me. That would mean that Naruto would never have been able to use SM if we are stating that Kurama didn't allow it. What Kurama didn't allow was 2 toads to merge on his host. Hence, Minato should have been able to turn BM off and start storing natural energy to go into SM to help, but he didn't.
5. Finally, the last picture that you provided proves nothing about SM. Pa states that Naruto has "surpassed" his predecessors, but that could mean ANYTHING. For Jiraya that could mean he mastered SM better then he did or that he was able to take down a Pain a lot quicker then he did. For Minato that could simply mean that he surpassed his father in strength and will. Anything could have been taken up from there, but since we never once were hinted that Minato knew SM, we couldn't infer that. And if we did, there was no confirmation of it.
The fact is that no matter how many ways you try and slice this, it's an ass-pull by Kishi. He failed to mention numerous times and illustrate numerous times that Minato had this ability. And in less then one page and one panel, he was able to perform a technique that still takes Naruto a bit to get into. Furthermore, I like how Kishi states with Pa that any movement hinders someone from absorbing natural energy and entering SM, but Minato was able to throw his special Kunai and then instantly enter "perfect" SM.
You can say what you'd like, but an ass-pull is an ass-pull.
1. Maybe a translation mistake? I cant read Japanese so I dont know.
2. Could you provide a scan? You dont know if Kakashi knew about Minato's SM.
Naruto didnt knew about Jiraiya's for a while either.
3. Tbh this could have happened more or less at the same time.
4. I have answered this point already. Why would he turn off the BM like mode, if he could just keep it on and let Naruto infuse the rasengan? Than there are the arguments about possibly wanting the next generation
to take over. Kurama obviously allows you to deactivate Kurama mode and to activate SM on your own.
You have misread that part I believe, because I never said Kurama doesnt allow you to go SM.
What I explained is that Kurama doesnt allow you to go SM + Kurama mode combined and why.
Naruto is an exception due to his friendship and agreement with Kurama.
5. This is debateable. They could have meant a few things, but I find it likely that they were talking about
SM, due to that being the subject of the chapters around that time.
Despite being separated, Yin Kurama's personality mirrors yang Kurama's personality. It should not object given the stakes involved. Minato's silence on this is glaring.
However I think mine is better due to covering the most of points at which people argue that Minato was not mentioned as Senjtusu user or where Minato should use SM.
However I think mine is better due to covering the most of points at which people argue that Minato was not mentioned as Senjtusu user or where Minato should use SM.
So far I have been able to respond to critisism of the theory, so it seems to cover enough.
Sometimes it can be best to not go overboard with the information in the opening post and to let the upcomming discussion in the thread handle the rest and I experienced that people find it discouraging to read if the opening post is to long as well.
So I tryed to keep it short.
1. Maybe a translation mistake? I cant read Japanese so I dont know.
2. Could you provide a scan? You dont know if Kakashi knew about Minato's SM.
Naruto didnt knew about Jiraiya's for a while either.
3. Tbh this could have happened more or less at the same time.
4. I have answered this point already. Why would he turn off the BM like mode, if he could just keep it on and let Naruto infuse the rasengan? Than there are the arguments about possibly wanting the next generation
to take over. Kurama obviously allows you to deactivate Kurama mode and to activate SM on your own.
You have misread that part I believe, because I never said Kurama doesnt allow you to go SM.
What I explained is that Kurama doesnt allow you to go SM + Kurama mode combined and why.
Naruto is an exception due to his friendship and agreement with Kurama.
5. This is debateable. They could have meant a few things, but I find it likely that they were talking about
SM, due to that being the subject of the chapters around that time.
Could you elaborate? As shown with scans, Yin Kurama is not at the same as Yang Kurama is.
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Yin Kurama is being amazed by Naruto treating him as a peer.
He is a bit different from Yang Kurama.
He is different but his personality quirks are the same. There are certain things that Kurama would find more distasteful than cooperation. He has already cooperated on other joint efforts. He is fully on board with the team.
He is different but his personality quirks are the same. There are certain things that Kurama would find more distasteful than cooperation. He has already cooperated on other joint efforts. He is fully on board with the team.
I am only giving the possibility that he had not swallowed as much pride as Yang Kurama had. That would mean he is on board with the team, but not comfortable with it for the full 100%. Than there are the younger generation should take over arguments and vision as showed, when Minato said to Naruto and Sasuke ''You are the main stars'' when they hit Obito with the Enton Fuuton Rasen Shuriken. Minato didnt want Naruto and Sasuke to be the diversion but to be the main attack. One could also wonder if he is capable of combining the two modes (Kurama mode and SM). Anyway they are all possiblities and not facts of course.
You threw the timeloop theory about the Narutoverse and Minato overboard?
I am only giving the possibility that he had not swallowed as much pride as Yang Kurama had. That would mean he is on board with the team, but not comfortable with it for the full 100%. Than there are the younger generation should take over arguments and vision as showed, when Minato said to Naruto and Sasuke ''You are the main stars'' when they hit Obito with the Enton Fuuton Rasen Shuriken. Minato didnt want Naruto and Sasuke to be the diversion but to be the main attack. One could also wonder if he is capable of combining the two modes (Kurama mode and SM). Anyway they are all possiblities and not facts of course.
You threw the timeloop theory about the Narutoverse and Minato overboard?
However I believe MInato lacked expierience with SM and BM to even dream about combining them as remember how much time it took Naruto to be able to combine these both modes.
Not at all, these arguments, be they positive or negative don't contradict in any way. The inconsistencies point out the loop more than any other item. So an item such as Minato suddenly and inexplicably manifesting a sage mode ability offers just as much proof as a head on a mountain appearing and dissapearing, clothing self repairs or an ancient tablet that changes.
It is hard to have discussions though if I precede every argument, "by the way, nothing is canon because of my theory" that makes for short discussions.
Not at all, these arguments, be they positive or negative don't contradict in any way. The inconsistencies point out the loop more than any other item. So an item such as Minato suddenly and inexplicably manifesting a sage mode ability offers just as much proof as a head on a mountain appearing and dissapearing, clothing self repairs or an ancient tablet that changes.
It is hard to have discussions though if I precede every argument, "by the way, nothing is canon because of my theory" that makes for short discussions.
I didnt give critisism to your timeloop theory btw. It was just a question if you threw it overboard, because you didnt bring it in anywhere in the thread.
I didnt understand what you meant exactly with your last paragraph/last 2 lines in the quote above.
I didnt give critisism to your timeloop theory btw. It was just a question if you threw it overboard, because you didnt bring it in anywhere in the thread.
I didnt understand what you mean exactly with your last paragraph.
Not at all, that thought hadn't crossed my mind. It's a valid question, but it's such a big part of the story that I feel people would be bored senseless by bringing it up all the time. Example: how does Minato have sage mode? There was a loop where he was able to master it. How does Kakashi have enough chakra? Because it's a different loop so he really hasn't spammed Kamui ten times in a single day. How can Sasuke have two contract summons? He doesn't those are different loop cycles, ever see them together? Etc. Etc.
Not at all, that thought hadn't crossed my mind. It's a valid question, but it's such a big part of the story that I feel people would be bored senseless by bringing it up all the time. Example: how does Minato have sage mode? There was a loop where he was able to master it. How does Kakashi have enough chakra? Because it's a different loop so he really hasn't spammed Kamui ten times in a single day. How can Sasuke have two contract summons? He doesn't those are different loop cycles, ever see them together? Etc. Etc.
It is hard to have discussions though if I precede every argument, "by the way, nothing is canon because of my theory" that makes for short discussions.
If you were talking about my theory. I dont mean to shorten discussions at all. Its more a case of modesty, just presenting possiblities why it doesnt have to be a plot hole no jutsu, that Minato showed SM for the first time to us, in front of Juubi jinc Madara.
People can read the possiblities and see if they agree or disagree with it and why and discuss about it.
It would be to arrogant if I presented them as facts imo, when not every single one of them are.
What I hope to achieve with this thread if for people to have a more open mind to Minato having SM and it possibly not being a plot hole no jutsu, by being presented some possiblities.
Understandable.
What did you mean with:
If you were talking about my theory. I dont mean to shorten discussions at all. Its more a case of modesty, just presenting possiblities why it doesnt have to be a plot hole no jutsu, that Minato showed SM for the first time to us, in front of Juubi jinc Madara.
People can read the possiblities and see if they agree or disagree with it and why and discuss about it.
It would be to arrogant if I presented them as facts imo, when not every single one of them are.
What I hope to achieve with this thread if for people to have a more open mind to Minato having SM possibly not being a plot hole no jutsu.
Was actually referring myself. I have to argue within the context of the topic and not rely on an unproven hypothesis. If I precede every discussion with "but have you considered loop theory?" Folks would rightly say gtfo.
Was actually referring myself. I have to argue within the context of the topic and not rely on an unproven hypothesis. If I precede every discussion with "but have you considered loop theory?" Folks would rightly say gtfo.
Even if kyuubi would allow minato to use sage mode.. who says minato is as skilled as naruto that he can make a mix of his own+kyuubi+nature energy instead of his own+nature energy..
Also i've checked the entire fight with juubito from where they found out the sage mode thing and there was never a reason for minato to use it.. cause he was working with naruto who was already putting it in the mix.
