[Suggestion] [RP Related]- Suggestions and Ideas

Noni

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
13,987
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
This thread was inspired by and someone else who shall not be named.

What I will be doing here is discussing the RP in detail, taking each section and discussing the issues that section might have. I will be giving two perspectives on fixing each section: a perspective on how the user(s) can help the section, and a perspective on how the mods can help the section. Not all of these ideas will be things that must be implemented, some of them can be basic moral ideas that everyone should be able to logically follow. Don't consider everything I say to be a set in stone idea, instead, take it as inspiration to speak on ideas you would like to see added. This does not have to be me just speaking and everyone agreeing or disagreeing with it. If you like an idea, great, if not, tell me and what might you think could be better for the section. This is an open discussion for everyone, so please be kind and respectful to all ideas. Also, if you have nothing to say at all, If you still might have a concern that I probably did not bring up, you are in a good position to post and tell us about it, even if you might not have an idea on how to fix it, we can still place an eye on it and go from there. Kindness and respect is to be considered from both sides, and I will be speaking as objective as I possibly can. The mains sections and ideas I shall talk about will be what I believe the most important sections are: Ninja world, Custom section, Battle testing, and training ground.

Before I begin, many of you guys might be wondering "why should I listen to you?" that is a fair point, and I would say the same thing for a lot of people. I shall establish my ethos by saying, I've been RPing for almost 2 years and some months. I've been a teacher (senpai and sensei) for more then a year, I've been a Kage for around 8-9 months as well as being a general for Konoha for some months. I'd like to consider myself a decent CJ maker as well. So there, those are my credentials, hopefully it will have people taking what I'm saying literal.


Training Ground Section


Issue I have seen in training ground in my humble opinion is not what most people try to make it out to be. Essentially, it is all about activity, we can brainstorm the most insanely well done idea for training someone, but that won't always work. Look into the eyes of the typical RPer, they want to just be over and done with training. I have experimented this myself, I've created my own method training: both a long and a short version, both have been far from perfect. A longer version seriously annoys a student and makes them want to drop a sensei, imagine taking a month to learn just ten techniques? Shorter methods make it tough to give all the needed information, most of the time it is just the teacher speaking and the student saying "No Questions". Hardly any interaction comes from this, and information might not be sufficient. But if you ask the student which method they would want, the slow and informative one, or the fast but not as informative one, it would be painfully obvious. So this goes to show that a student does not care as much as "how" they are being taught, but the speed of their teaching. So take all this away we come to the conclusion in training ground, teaching is sadly becoming more and more about speed instead of sufficiency. And honestly, that can be okay too. I'm a firm believer that someone becomes truly great through constant repetition of battling with what they have learned. Even if we were to sit down and give a person three jutsus, in each post, and maintain the thread consecutively active, what will be one thing you notice? Obviously, the explanation from both student and teacher is rather basic stuff, and it becomes nothing but repetition. So the main issue at hand is, how can we make teaching done as fast as possible? But still give all the needed information to the student without making it daunting?

Here is a solution that might be something that the teaching system/moderators decide to implement upon the senseis and senpais.

1- Double training should be exercised more frequently, but not how you might think. Isn't it funny how a sensei/senpai can teach 2-3 students at the same time in the same thread, but a senpai and sensei has never trained one student together at the same time? At first you might think it is counter-productive because it puts the attention on only one student. However, and mind you, I got this idea from a friend of mine named Riker, imagine a senpai consecutively teaching a student in earth rather well, but fails to look reply in a week or more. I believe a sensei should have full access (if they do not already) to look at the training thread of their senpai and if they notice a reply has not be distributed, that they give a post or two of jutsus and teachings until the senpai comes back. Every month is the only time a sensei asks for the senpai's thread. I believe a sensei should always have access to the senpais training threads and constantly look over it and give replies if a senpai seems to be inactive without warning. Or even for the hell of it, if they seem to have some free-time to just help each other out. I'm not saying to make a reply always after the senpai/sensei, but it has become sad that there is not much senpai and sensei communication anymore, and it becomes apparent in the threads of their teachings. I think bonus points and respect should be given to the teach of senpai and sensei that does this, and it should be something consistently practiced. It doesn't always have to happen, but if a mod is looking over a thread and notices one of the teachers has been slow in their reply, instead of just giving a warning of inactivity and a strike, or just giving an excuse shouldn't book it, a mod should be able to see that there is posts from both teachers and this will allow a thread to remain consistently smooth, and if there is any inactivity it is blamed on the user and not the teacher.

2. The concept of temporary senseis tasks for a senpai, or vice versa. Now you might look at this oddly but hear me out. There comes a time where someone goes inactive between the two and this slows down training. Look at it from the senpai side, a sensei goes down for a month or so, and he had a lot of students to worry about but sadly they must look for someone else. Wouldn't it be wise, for the month the sensei is gone, that the senpai temporarily is able to teach the basic 9? This not only prevents students from leaving, but it also gives a great gauge at the senpai. Senpais are expected to be senseis soon, this can give a great opportunity for a mod to look and track the senpai and how he is teaching. Give him ideas and criticism so when he finally steps up for the tests, he is truly ready and failing would be hardly an issue. Now what if a sensei is gone for a really long time? Well I propose that this should only be allow for one month. If I recall a senpai is expected to stay a senpai for six months until they are tasks to apply for sensei-ship. But it wouldn't make much sense to have them as senseis for more then 6 months and then task them to be a sensei and go through the protocol, some complaining might be done. So to avoid that, keep this as a one month minimum, and then stay 2 months as regular senpais. This isn't mandatory either, if a sensei is perfectly active, there shouldn't be a reason to do this. It should be for emergencies only, so threads remain active and no students are left to dry, and senpais are given great experience to become senseis.
Now the second part is rather simple, if a senpai has to leave for a month, a sensei should be allowed to pick a temporary senpai and not have to drop the original one. This temporary senpai should again be only for a month and no more, if the original senpai does not return after a month, he should be dropped or not given the month required to be a sensei. Now, what benefits come from this? Maintain activity for thread replies, but also, I know many great RPers who are fantastic and can be sensei's but an issue is they are not senpais or do not fit the bill. But, I do know some senpais who are not active but still seem to maintain the job they have because they have a viable excuse, and that is fine. But why not give a temporary month to a regular member so they can fill in their sensei resume? This to me can easily be done, and it allows for more people to obtain the requirements and practice to be a sensei. Now I would recommend this can only be done at least three times per person (so three months), and never with the same sensei each time. But otherwise, I think if you toy around with the idea, it presents itself as well enough to constantly have teachers come around, threads remain active, and a sensei/senpai can still have proper connection. Again this shouldn't be mandatory, instead it should be something to be done if need be. Cause if this isn't needed, like we won't need any more sensei/senpai and that would mean the teaching system is just fine and we should keep it this way.

Both these ideas I propose on the teaching system side will allow for three things to occur: consistent training being done, experience being increased, and since sensei and senpai are teaching together a sensei can intervene and give more ideas and words along with the senpai so information is constantly being flushed in from many sides and observations making the learning experience high and fast.

Now what can the users do in all this? How about no complaining and remaining active throughout? As a sensei, I've caught too many C/Ps being done on training replies, lazy posts, and repetition. Training can be daunting indeed but that doesn't give it an excuse for poor reply and training. It hurts the teacher just as much when the student doesn't seem to be in it. What I recommend for the user is not to be afraid to asks questions and interact with the teacher. It is our job, if you want a RP based training, then ask and we will do so. Informative? We can do that as well. There isn't much I can say on the users side on this because mostly every person wants their training to be done as soon as possible, but lackluster replies and complaints won't help anyone either. I'm also a firm believer that if a student is caught copying posts, giving repetitive replies, or anything of that nature, a punishment suitable enough should be applicable. Such as a restart in training threads, but I'm sure that is already allowed. So sensei and senpais don't be scared to do so if a user isn't doing well enough or is plagiarizing to finish training. Users don't realize how much poer they have in training threads, if you do not enjoy the training, you have to speak to the trainer. Also, if a sensei and senpai is doing something you feel is wrong and they aren't tending to your needs, again, you can definitely report the issue. I feel like too many things become sacrificed simply for the sake of getting things done. Training threads make a good chunk of your activity, so embrace them, enjoy them, have fun with them, you won't see yourself being inactive or the rp inactive if you stay active and embrace the training. Some great students have made even the most laziest sensei enjoy training and miss it. So take advantage of the training system.


Battle Testing


I know right? Why is this being discussed it isn't even that active or worrisome? Well the battle test section has problems I've seen. One being the complaints of slow grading. I think, as many senseis have said, they wouldn't mind extra work on their plates if it is needed. I feel like senior sensei's should be allowed to grade battle tests. Not just any battle tests though, ones they themselves have passed or tier tests a moderator gives them permission to do so. What might be the drawbacks of this? Well they are looked at as "mini-mods" well I never looked at it that way. As we have been discussing countless times, mods activity matters, but if a mod is given so much work it prevents them from focusing on areas that might need their attention more. Let's consider that every senior sensei has the credentials to grade most tests (aside from stuff like MS and EIG) wouldn't that make the battle test section something the mods barely have to worry about? Yes, I think a mod should be able to look over grades to see if they are accurate, but otherwise, if we eliminate the need for a mod in the BT section, we allow for them to turn their directions elsewhere. Adding one more piece of work on their dinner plate will not be harmful to any sensei, and if anything, it can be enjoyable for them. Especially if they were proctoring it in the first place, they would have the best feel and idea of the test then just about any other mod. So in my opinion this allows not only quick grading, but mods don't have to worry. And I also consider it this, it might even higher the status of a moderator position, for they should be the only ones allowed to veto a grading, or grade only high level tests. What is wrong with Crutch kaguya being able to grade a simple SM test? Or Gobi being able to grade a simple raikage test? Have they not got the experience to do so? This would breathe new life into the senior sensei title, and eliminate any threat the BT might have. I think it can be something easily placed and exercised.

I believe the battle test section might be easiest to govern and sensei's have proven themselves to be really well suited to grade tests. If they earn the title, given slight teachings on how to properly grade, I think it can work well and it will be amazingly well done for now moderators are more free for work. Other then that, the BT section is rather well done from both sides.


Custom Section


Aww, my domain <3. I truly love this. But sorry users, y'all hold all the blame in this site more then the mods. Speaking in the perspective of the student whose sensei was a CJ checker, I know a thing or two about this enough to come up with that conclusion. Let me explain before you guys get mad, I do have some suggestions for the mods, as well, but you guys come first.

One of the things that my sensei would tell me all the time was how upset he would get at people constantly bugging him for CJ questions. It pissed him off, and I wouldn't blame him. Lets start with how the majority of you guys structure your CJs. I honestly blame myself, (and slightly NK) but mainly myself. I started to make rather long CJs and then people started to chime in and do the same. I've since then lowered my CJs body ( at least tried to ), but I've noticed others haven't do the same as much. What is giving the users the sudden desire to create long cjs for a jutsu that does nothing but send a simple fireball? I will never know. Of course there is inactivity from mods in that section, they don't want to read a book about a basic earth technique. This is what makes the mods not like to check cjs. And it is becoming apparent, because some cjs are even getting declined due to their length. Recommendation? Stop making long cjs if you don't want easy declines to happen. Now, they might look good in principle, a long cj gives the illusion it can be a good cj. But let me tell you guys something, is it really the case? The longer a CJ the easier it is to have mistakes, the easier it is to not want to read and leave your cjs for last. It is insane to me how someone gets made about their cjs not being checked, but then when the thread opens I see 3 walls for CJs. How about lowering the text of the cjs so they become easier to read? I know it seems obvious, but cmon guys, this has become serious to the point where it isn't even worth reading anymore, for likely you tried to snick something OP in there, or wrote a whole bunch of filler. Now I still have this habit myself, so here is what I do to lower it. Write the CJ as long as you want, leave it sitting for a day or two, come back to it and re-read it. Any repetition, filler, OP, etc should be cut up and discarded. You will be surprised how easy it is and how much stuff you can catch yourself. Not that? Well that is fine too, try making a structure to the creation of techniques, make your technique in pieces and as concise as possible, and then piece them together, it will prevent you writing the same thing over and over again. The spoil below gives an idea of what I'm speaking about.

I]Whatever you have learned fro describing a CJ completely forget, don't ever think about it anymore. Anyway I'll give you my method of writing stuff, it is really easy. [/I]

- Creation, initiation, cosmetics, and looks (Least important)
- What it does after it is created (Second most important)
- What it can do and can't do, purpose, examples, and how it can be done (most important part)
- Anything extra that logically comes with the technique (Third most important)
- Notes should be according to the technique, no fillers, usage limit, duration, restriction during or after performance that is castes on the user,etc never go overboard but don't half ass it. S-Ranks are always around 3-5 restriction, A-Rank are always 2-4, and B-Ranks are always 1-3. Good general note to use.

(Raiton: Eregan Rai Jisshi)- Lightning Release: Elegant Electrical Embodiment
Type: Defense/Offense
Rank: S
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 40 (-10 per turn)
Damage Points: 80
Description: The user will gather lightning chakra throughout their body, and release it on the edge of the users skin all at once. This creates a unique armor of extreme condensed electricity for the user with random electrical wires appear out of it the armor that extends up to short range radius of the user. This doesn't add to Taijutsu but gives a more unique pain and method of attack, numbing on first contact and paralyzing on prolonged contact. Metal weapons will be shredded against the armor as well. Specific usages come along with the armor as well. Defensively, when touching things of solidity, no matter the size, the electricity will be able to ravage along the body, conducting through it, and destroy it to pieces, this makes golems in contact with the opponent vulnerable, roots of wood destroyed with ease, and steel cages less of a threat (this costs a move and is A-Rank) and extends up to the size of the construct it is negating no matter the size, this ability activates whenever the material touches the armor, even when the user is unable to notice the attack. Also, the electricity will prevent earth (KG and CE as well) to be created under the user and their short range radius for the electricity will negate it before its creation/usage (passive) due to the electrical wires created with the armor discharging lightning into the ground. The user can also create electrical whips out of their limbs that are heavily condensed able to restrict the opponent, swing around areas or slice through material/flesh that extend up to mid range. The user can shape the threads to create various tools like spears, spikes, walls, spheres, etc to aid for various purposes, using a hand seal will allow the user to release these weapons as a projectiles (count as a move and is A-Rank). The user can create up to eight constructs at most (with the use of one hand seal) with the power of this technique being split accordingly. While active, the user can only use Lightning and non-elemental abilities. The user will be able to deactivate it mentally with no time wasted. Due to the stress of the electricity the user will be unable to use Taijutsu above C-Rank for three turns, only applicable when armor is active for all 4 turns.

Note: Can only be taught by Noni
Note: Last four turns and can only be used twice per battle
Note: Can not use lightning in same turn deactivated
Note: The abilities that come with this armor can only be used four times before it disperses on its own

Basically, stop making long CJs. Make a plan, keep it, re-read, etc. Also, if you have a CJ that is long and you feel like there is nothing you can take out, then post it and if a mod declines it for that reason, you should be able to express it. What I tend to do is actually write my cjs and give it to someone else to read, they tend to also pick out filler. Also, and probably this is just me, but I also tend to write my customs in mind as if I will give them to someone else to submit. For some reason I don't put as much effort in it or words in it, because I think people have a natural tendency to make CJs long when they will submit it cause it looks more royal. It works for me. Play around with the ideas.

Okay so the second part that you users need to realize. You guys take the CJ section for granted and especially the moderators. Do you know how hard it is to read a CJ? You guys can barely read this and you expect one or two men to read about 300 cjs a month? Put yourself in their shoes and then try to speak. Nobody wants to do so because they say it isn't there problem or the mods are suppose to know what they got themselves into, of course they do, but these mods have no motivation to check cjs if you consistently complain about it, and I'm damn sure you guys would read every CJ in the custom jutsu user section to see what you can learn, but in the perspective that you have to approve or decline a CJ for the sake of how the RPs power meters tips, how users can dictate their trades, and worse of all, not being able to learn any of them? Now that is harsh. I told NK to exercise your right to punish those giving you too many questions or complaints, but he was too kind for that. His fault too, but you guys took all of that for granted. Honestly, some of you guys might never reach the max of cj approval, so why people are so stingy with cjs, again, it is something I won't know. Yes it is for the sake of power, but again, unless you are outrageously talented I don't see the need for it to be so harsh with the mods. Also, how many times do you use the CJs you get approved? How many times do you regret a CJ being approved later on? I know I do, and I'm sure others do too. Stop complaining, stop questioning, stop being harsh or taking stuff for granted. Look into the eyes of a moderator who has to stare at a computer to check cjs they will never learn, getting you more powerful but leaving themselves to remain stagnate. Honestly, the CJ section to me is more about how we can cater to the moderators and make sure they stay happy and motivated, and not the users, but I digress from there.

Here are some more things to consider for the users. You don't have to use up all your 3 cj slots in a post lol, I see 2 great CJs and one bad one, and I realize they just made that for the sake of making it to fill spots. There will come a day that we will have to lower the amount of CJs being posted in each post due to length and posts being made, so learn to exercise the fact that you can submit less then 3. Submit your best ones, don't submit just for the sake of it. I also believe users need to master basic 5 before submitting CJs, not in a rule, but in moral. Too many people submit stuff you can do in the canon list and that could had been avoided had you learned the canon list in the first place. Learn to do your homework as well, read up on CJs and rules, see what is and isn't allowed. I also believe a moderator should be allowed to ban a person from a thread if they consistently make these time of submissions cause it is clear there is ignorance going on. And trust me, most of the time, the users will thank the mod later after realizing the mistakes they did in the cj posts cause they could had been done with canons or were already created.

Anyway that is what I got for users, here are some suggestions for mods.

Nothing, you guys are doing fine. Take breaks when you have to, just make sure you have someone for your back. I think 3 mods in the CJ section is the perfect number and shouldn't be more. Relax, enjoy yourself, and all that jazz. Being a personal student of a CJ mod made me realize just how important you guys can be. Now if you leave for months on end and you are pretty inactive, then it is time to move on, but otherwise I can't say much on it. Just go with the flow for CJ checking, don't make schedules, just be observant. Be consistent. You guys dictate the power scale in NB, know that. I realize just as long as there are consistently active people checking the thread, the rp runs forever smoother. Keep a mod or two on stand by whose tasks isn't directly checking the thread, so if someone slows down, they can be implemented. To me, this isn't about a system, this is about properly managing the mods in that section well enough. Mods can simply help this system by just being there.


Ninja World


Once again, I feel like this is more to be blamed on the users side and I expressed this in the spoiler.
Now to the users. Yep, y'all hold just as much to blame as the mods. You guys complain, about activity to be done by the mods, but then you guys fail to be active yourselves? I'm a sensei, I been teaching for over a year and consistently, as well as govern a village that I keep active a lot under my people. I can be upset at mods being inactive cause I've held my end of the bargain of being active too. But people begging for NW activity but fail to go out and actually participate in wars? People say they want activity, but they don't, they just want to be apart of something where they don't lose anything. No one wants to war in a chance they lose their village, no one wants their position as a kage to be taken or lost. However, failure to take risks, going out and being active, despite the consequences that might take place, is what kills activity in the RP. A mod won't hold your hand in a war, nor in a training thread. You got the put the effort in, only time I see the NW active is in an event where you win something but lose nothing, or if it is one sided a village is guaranteed to win. No matter what people say, you guys beg for activity, but fail to show it. I want internal activity in the RP, but NW activity I've held my bargain, every person in my arms has, but I can't speak for everyone else. All I can ask is this, for the Pokemon event are you as a user doing all you can to make do with what you have? During wars are you hiding behind a kage or are you fighting and creating dialogue? In a fight are you complaining about bullying cause someone OP killed you in one move, or are you taking it as a learning lesson and moving onto the next event? How many people beg for their bio to be approved or event to be over so they can have a free bio to rp, but never go out to rp in the first place? How many people go inactive the moment they are in a one sided fight or lose a fight? How many people leave after they lose a title? Too many people. You guys are the ones that ruin the concept of RPing because everyone is either hypersensitive or afraid to take a risk. Don't blame a mod in that respect. That can only be done by you as an individual. And even if the NW is inactive, can you not make CJs to prepare for the thread? Can you not prepare training? Can you not spar? Can you not chat? When it comes to individual activity, do not look at the mods, they are for the bigger picture, you are for the smaller details. Now whether you want to be a drawing from Picasso or a drawing from my two year old cousin, that is totally up to you, but don't blame a Mod or anyone but yourself for that inactivity, that completely falls on your shoulders.

Anyone can walk in the NW and have fun and kick about. Anyone can start a fight, its just everyone is too scared to. You guys don't want activity, you want attention and power. The head hunters was active as hell if it meant getting fuinjutsu, but does any other event get that same type of respect? I doubt it.

I do have ideas for it that can be worked out. I have com to the conclusion for the users of two things.

Either there is a certain amount of fear, or a certain amount of laziness. These both have to be addressed for the users, aside from the moral aspect of it I think users are holding to blame, there can be solutions to probably fix this.

My first idea is the "no consequence events" these are events, wars, story-lines, or anything of that sort. The kages or villages will discuss this behind closed doors and agree on a event that by the end of it, no body gets harmed in actuality. When the event is over, everything is "back" to normal. I am actually trying to have this done with Konohagakure and will be discussing it with LoK soon. But essentially, I think if users are able to dictate events where there is no consequences, such as losing their village or official spots, it decreases the fear factor of participating in events. It makes everything specific to the point where you can literally dictate the story line. I've seen official events, but this would more or less be unofficial events, so it won't be under the official NW storyline, but it can be present to the villages own story line, and this will increase activity because it is entirely in the users hands for activity and have no excuses to be worried and fight. Every fight in the NW matters and if we can eliminate that anxiety in the users, it will be great. This can evolve even the entire NW, just no actual consequences. Now an issue I see with this is, what if people decide to only do this? Well, a village will still have full ability to launch an official war or skirmish, so otherwise, it is just in the hands of the users, and I think NW should be about that. There should be a lot of room for this to be considered and restriction and rules should be agreed by both villages.

Second idea is the concept of a "only rp" event or discussion. The issue with going to the NW is someone always fears they will be attacked or killed without hesitation. Why not allow events go by where two villages agree upon just RPing? No fighting permitted. Or a group of users doing so? Again, only time NW is active is fighting, but even if people just want to RP there will always be the problem that someone attacks. If beforehand there is an agreement between the villages and people that the event or story line they are in at the moment will not be fighting, then it will stay that way. No one issue might arise is that what if someone comes about randomly and attacks who did not agree with the group? Was not apart of the group? Wasn't even in the village when this claim was made? Well I think 1 of two things. There could be an exception to only fighting this one intruder but not the others, but that might be abused due to workings behind the scene, or the concept that a "only rp" event or story line will also mean momentary protection from outside intruders. Honestly, if there are two villages planning for an event, like a carnival or basic stuff like that where we can increase RP, I doubt a random intruder shows up, but otherwise, again, this abolishes the concept of being fearful of fighting, and progresses RP. This allows for love interests, friendship making, and cool events to happen. Now this concept needs to be agreed on by both parties, and again there are holes in it, but hopefully you guys can see where I'm getting at.

If you guys notice anything, what I'm trying to get at is the users should be able to decide the NW fate more then just by how strong they are. Moderators should just take a step back and allow things to flow in the RP concept, and simply observe on everyone so no rules are being broken.

Also, I believe mods can have monthly or annually events posted in the NW where people can be active on. They don't have to be overly unique, it can be regular treasure hunt stuff, rescue missions, NW wrestlemania. Stuff that can be added and individuals can sign up on. This will allow two things. Consistently people will have stuff to do, and it will allow us to pinpoint exactly what is going on when it comes to people being lazy or not. If no one shows up that is the users problem, not the mods. But I would like to see more RP only events going on, where death and consequences aren't always present. Do prizes have to be an option? No, of course not. But this allows us to pinpoint issues with users.

Otherwise, the NW revamp and everything has been well received and done.


Conclusion​



These are all my ideas. Moderators inactivity comes from many things, especially RL. But the rp biggest problem is moderators have too much dictation in it. I feel like in some cases a mod can be more hands off, just like the NW, where I believe kages and villages can discuss events and just get confirmation from mods. In my opinion, mods need to be spread properly with their powers where they are needed the most, users need to take more action into their hands. Moderators and users need to work together in a lot of this and be in stable ground. Both morally and practically. Again these ideas and concerns are meant to enlighten and pick up ideas and discussion. Post your ideas and critiques on mine, I won't feel bad lmao. This is meant to inspire most of all. Thanks to ready if you actually did it, and of course you don't need to read all if it, but just places where you care the most. Also, great quotes and ideas I will likely take and place them into this first post here so they get recognition. Have a good day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yuse

Kai NB

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
13,378
Kin
640💸
Kumi
6,987💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Going to work in 2 hours now... Wall of text appears regarding RP...

*Dials Boss's phone.*

"Hey boss, I'm not gonna be in today, there's this huge wallie on how RP is Life—
"JAKAI!"

*Magically sends me image through the phone*
You must be registered for see images

OT: I haven't read this all yet, but I'll be sure to later Noni. I did read your CJ Creation Template though, and you can bet I'll be using it.


EDIT: So I've read what you have wrote, and at first glance, I'm quite impressed. Of course, I'm not trying to look at any possible bad sides to your argument right now, so keep in mind that I haven't looked into this enough to make a fair judgement from both sides.

The noticeable things from my view though were:

Sensei & Senpai Dual Training
I absolutely love the idea. I would love to work alongside my sensei to assist in his trainings and have him work alongside me. Not only would we use this for times when we are inactive or to fix any possible mistakes, but to add to the actual RP sense of it.

Battle Testing
I like how you specified Senior Senseis. If you said all senseis, I would've disagreed with you, but you made it a clear understanding that you'd only want the qualified senseis to be able to grade, which makes sense and I think would be a great implementation. I mean, I don't know what goes on in Sensei HQ, but what does one even do as Head Sensei or the other position?

Customs
Focus on only making quality submissions that aren't to long and redundant. I'm all for it.

Ninja World
I get what you're saying, and I agree with how most people worry about that. I think the issue is also because the entire RP system is heavily battle-oriented. And for good reason. The series it's based on is basically fighting every other second. In addition to the ideas you gave, I think the members of the base (myself included) should try to make more attempts at simple RP stories.

Let's go visit my friends in the Hidden Mist Village. Let's go enjoy some Ramen. LET'S GO MAKE SOME FILLER EPISODE STORIES. THE ONE WERE NARUTO AND INO WENT TO IMPRESS THAT FAT ELVIS DUDE! THAT SHIT WAS HILARIOUS! I WANT TO DO THAT! WE CAN STILL USE NINJUTSU! BUT LET'S HAVE FUN!​

Overall, I love this thread and I like the ideas. I will put in my effort to help out, because I agree that it starts with the members to make the RP more enjoyable.
 
Last edited:

Summer

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
14,423
Kin
3💸
Kumi
24💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
I like the idea of the battle tests ilportion being checked by sensei. However I feel it should be checked by two sensei not just one and if both sensei determine different outcome then a mod would have to get final say. Just an idea for well more responsible type of system.
 

Akuma

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
19,063
Kin
279💸
Kumi
803💴
Trait Points
46⚔️
I got around reading the entire post even though I didn't want to atm. lol

That aside, I agree on most points you've made and support the suggestions. One however, not so simple. It is the portion about Sensei being allowed to check Battle Test. At first glance it seems like a good idea, we have many sensei to take turns revising the tests right? But the problem is a number of sensei aren't really fitted to check tests. It's not uncommon for Sensei to mess up a ruling in a battle, now imagine making mistakes in a BT. Being a sensei doesn't qualify to properly judge the abilities of another RPer. Not entirely atleast, and it's not at fault, since sensei are teachers. I say this because some people perform horribly in combat and even in the workings of elemental interactions, and no offense but, some of these people just passed the sensei test. I hope i'm wrong, but Sensei checking tests will bring about a storm of mistakes and arguments.
Now, i'm not saying all sensei are like this, or that they are like this by default. It's a case by case, so maybe if a few (3) sensei were trained on how to properly judge and grade a battle test by a Mod, then maybe they could be checkers. And do Tier from 1 - 3 only, leave Tiers 4 & 5 for the Moderators as these are the hardest tests (Jinchu, EIG, EMS, etc.)
 
Last edited:

Urda

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
23,635
Kin
2,210💸
Kumi
7,699💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Training Section

Part 1: I think it is up to the student and what method of training they perform and not the Sensei. Some members are able to take information in differently or know the mechanics behind a Jutsu then most.

Part 2: I know for a fact the Training Ground-Idea wouldn't work. We have a system. What you are suggesting would cause everything to overlap, resulting in a huge disarray in the training section. "Who is training me?" "Oh, you suppose to be gone for a month." "No, I'm back now."

Battle Test

Skip

Custom Section

It's not hard to come to terms that every Jutsu is the basic concept of its attributes. So basically, it's not really creative at all, its generic. Other than that, I agree that Custom Jutsu should be simple and NOT lengthy.

Ninja World

Why everybody on Skype? I blame Skype. :devil:
 

Detective L

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
19,342
Kin
2,224💸
Kumi
3,141💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Nice ideas. I like the part that we as Sensei can check in on our senpai's trainings, and help out when needed, but the point of senpai temporarily assuming Sensei tasks are a no-no for me. Things can get a bit messy here, especially if they aren't ready. Battle testing, like Loki said, isn't easy. I like evaluating a test after I proctor it (I'm sure you've seen those wallies) but grading a test is much more complex than a simple evaluation. I know it's to bring down the amount of time one has to wait for a grading of a Battle Test, but even then, its a massive responsibility to just take, even as a sensei.

Customs, I don't have much to say, I am mediocre at best when it comes to creating them, so I guess making shorter customs would possibly change things. NW wise, implementing RP only events would be interesting. Like said before, sometimes I feel that the NW is very fixated on killing, and not on traversing in the massive sand box world given to us to free roam, and create an amazing story. But eh, I don't spend a lot of time in the NW either, so that's my two cents. lol Nice suggestion overall.
 

Lord of Kaos

Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
29,260
Kin
4,695💸
Kumi
92,153💴
Trait Points
25⚔️


Training Ground Section


Issue I have seen in training ground in my humble opinion is not what most people try to make it out to be. Essentially, it is all about activity, we can brainstorm the most insanely well done idea for training someone, but that won't always work. Look into the eyes of the typical RPer, they want to just be over and done with training. I have experimented this myself, I've created my own method training: both a long and a short version, both have been far from perfect. A longer version seriously annoys a student and makes them want to drop a sensei, imagine taking a month to learn just ten techniques? Shorter methods make it tough to give all the needed information, most of the time it is just the teacher speaking and the student saying "No Questions". Hardly any interaction comes from this, and information might not be sufficient. But if you ask the student which method they would want, the slow and informative one, or the fast but not as informative one, it would be painfully obvious. So this goes to show that a student does not care as much as "how" they are being taught, but the speed of their teaching. So take all this away we come to the conclusion in training ground, teaching is sadly becoming more and more about speed instead of sufficiency. And honestly, that can be okay too. I'm a firm believer that someone becomes truly great through constant repetition of battling with what they have learned. Even if we were to sit down and give a person three jutsus, in each post, and maintain the thread consecutively active, what will be one thing you notice? Obviously, the explanation from both student and teacher is rather basic stuff, and it becomes nothing but repetition. So the main issue at hand is, how can we make teaching done as fast as possible? But still give all the needed information to the student without making it daunting?

Here is a solution that might be something that the teaching system/moderators decide to implement upon the senseis and senpais.

1- Double training should be exercised more frequently, but not how you might think. Isn't it funny how a sensei/senpai can teach 2-3 students at the same time in the same thread, but a senpai and sensei has never trained one student together at the same time? At first you might think it is counter-productive because it puts the attention on only one student. However, and mind you, I got this idea from a friend of mine named Riker, imagine a senpai consecutively teaching a student in earth rather well, but fails to look reply in a week or more. I believe a sensei should have full access (if they do not already) to look at the training thread of their senpai and if they notice a reply has not be distributed, that they give a post or two of jutsus and teachings until the senpai comes back. Every month is the only time a sensei asks for the senpai's thread. I believe a sensei should always have access to the senpais training threads and constantly look over it and give replies if a senpai seems to be inactive without warning. Or even for the hell of it, if they seem to have some free-time to just help each other out. I'm not saying to make a reply always after the senpai/sensei, but it has become sad that there is not much senpai and sensei communication anymore, and it becomes apparent in the threads of their teachings. I think bonus points and respect should be given to the teach of senpai and sensei that does this, and it should be something consistently practiced. It doesn't always have to happen, but if a mod is looking over a thread and notices one of the teachers has been slow in their reply, instead of just giving a warning of inactivity and a strike, or just giving an excuse shouldn't book it, a mod should be able to see that there is posts from both teachers and this will allow a thread to remain consistently smooth, and if there is any inactivity it is blamed on the user and not the teacher.
This can already be accomplished; When I was actively training, I used to start the elemental training by covering the basics and then my Senpai would take over up until S ranks, where I finished up. Far from ideal, it offered some form of duality in training and gave students two perspectives on elements. It was shortlived but still. What you suggest can already be done - if the sensei and senpais are willing to do so. There isn't really any need for Mod interference here, only to check whether trainings are being done right which is normal.

2. The concept of temporary senseis tasks for a senpai, or vice versa. Now you might look at this oddly but hear me out. There comes a time where someone goes inactive between the two and this slows down training. Look at it from the senpai side, a sensei goes down for a month or so, and he had a lot of students to worry about but sadly they must look for someone else. Wouldn't it be wise, for the month the sensei is gone, that the senpai temporarily is able to teach the basic 9? This not only prevents students from leaving, but it also gives a great gauge at the senpai. Senpais are expected to be senseis soon, this can give a great opportunity for a mod to look and track the senpai and how he is teaching. Give him ideas and criticism so when he finally steps up for the tests, he is truly ready and failing would be hardly an issue. Now what if a sensei is gone for a really long time? Well I propose that this should only be allow for one month. If I recall a senpai is expected to stay a senpai for six months until they are tasks to apply for sensei-ship. But it wouldn't make much sense to have them as senseis for more then 6 months and then task them to be a sensei and go through the protocol, some complaining might be done. So to avoid that, keep this as a one month minimum, and then stay 2 months as regular senpais. This isn't mandatory either, if a sensei is perfectly active, there shouldn't be a reason to do this. It should be for emergencies only, so threads remain active and no students are left to dry, and senpais are given great experience to become senseis.
Now the second part is rather simple, if a senpai has to leave for a month, a sensei should be allowed to pick a temporary senpai and not have to drop the original one. This temporary senpai should again be only for a month and no more, if the original senpai does not return after a month, he should be dropped or not given the month required to be a sensei. Now, what benefits come from this? Maintain activity for thread replies, but also, I know many great RPers who are fantastic and can be sensei's but an issue is they are not senpais or do not fit the bill. But, I do know some senpais who are not active but still seem to maintain the job they have because they have a viable excuse, and that is fine. But why not give a temporary month to a regular member so they can fill in their sensei resume? This to me can easily be done, and it allows for more people to obtain the requirements and practice to be a sensei. Now I would recommend this can only be done at least three times per person (so three months), and never with the same sensei each time. But otherwise, I think if you toy around with the idea, it presents itself as well enough to constantly have teachers come around, threads remain active, and a sensei/senpai can still have proper connection. Again this shouldn't be mandatory, instead it should be something to be done if need be. Cause if this isn't needed, like we won't need any more sensei/senpai and that would mean the teaching system is just fine and we should keep it this way.
I'm not in favor for this; you ask that Sensei be given more responsibility and to be trusted more, but you're taking abilities from them here. I understand what the frustration could be like as a former senpai, but I think Ninjutsu and Genjutsu should remain Sensei-bound training abilities. Taijutsu has quite a few Shishou as well as Kenjutsu.



Battle Testing


I know right? Why is this being discussed it isn't even that active or worrisome? Well the battle test section has problems I've seen. One being the complaints of slow grading. I think, as many senseis have said, they wouldn't mind extra work on their plates if it is needed. I feel like senior sensei's should be allowed to grade battle tests. Not just any battle tests though, ones they themselves have passed or tier tests a moderator gives them permission to do so. What might be the drawbacks of this? Well they are looked at as "mini-mods" well I never looked at it that way. As we have been discussing countless times, mods activity matters, but if a mod is given so much work it prevents them from focusing on areas that might need their attention more. Let's consider that every senior sensei has the credentials to grade most tests (aside from stuff like MS and EIG) wouldn't that make the battle test section something the mods barely have to worry about? Yes, I think a mod should be able to look over grades to see if they are accurate, but otherwise, if we eliminate the need for a mod in the BT section, we allow for them to turn their directions elsewhere. Adding one more piece of work on their dinner plate will not be harmful to any sensei, and if anything, it can be enjoyable for them. Especially if they were proctoring it in the first place, they would have the best feel and idea of the test then just about any other mod. So in my opinion this allows not only quick grading, but mods don't have to worry. And I also consider it this, it might even higher the status of a moderator position, for they should be the only ones allowed to veto a grading, or grade only high level tests. What is wrong with Crutch kaguya being able to grade a simple SM test? Or Gobi being able to grade a simple raikage test? Have they not got the experience to do so? This would breathe new life into the senior sensei title, and eliminate any threat the BT might have. I think it can be something easily placed and exercised.

I believe the battle test section might be easiest to govern and sensei's have proven themselves to be really well suited to grade tests. If they earn the title, given slight teachings on how to properly grade, I think it can work well and it will be amazingly well done for now moderators are more free for work. Other then that, the BT section is rather well done from both sides.
We discussed this before in the past, but my stance on this differs from yours; while it's not a questioning of whether Sensei are capable of performing tasks like such, I feel as if Sensei duties should include Training, Conducting Tests, and Judgment Calls. While the last two would imply tests as well, I'd feel better if they didn't check tests and I honestly can't give a reason other than personal preference.

However, I can talk with Sharingdork and see if it's possible to make a perk of Senior Sensei to be able to check Village Tournament fights. It gives you the same sense of responsibility, in a sense, and gives Senior Sensei more things to do. Also, EIG Masters who are Sensei are able to grade EIG tests as they require Both a Mod and a EIG Master to post.



Custom Section


Anyway that is what I got for users, here are some suggestions for mods.

Nothing, you guys are doing fine. Take breaks when you have to, just make sure you have someone for your back. I think 3 mods in the CJ section is the perfect number and shouldn't be more. Relax, enjoy yourself, and all that jazz. Being a personal student of a CJ mod made me realize just how important you guys can be. Now if you leave for months on end and you are pretty inactive, then it is time to move on, but otherwise I can't say much on it. Just go with the flow for CJ checking, don't make schedules, just be observant. Be consistent. You guys dictate the power scale in NB, know that. I realize just as long as there are consistently active people checking the thread, the rp runs forever smoother. Keep a mod or two on stand by whose tasks isn't directly checking the thread, so if someone slows down, they can be implemented. To me, this isn't about a system, this is about properly managing the mods in that section well enough. Mods can simply help this system by just being there.
I can understand your view on this as a small amount of mods checking the thread can lead to frustration on Both sides. Indeed, more activity is needed by Moderators, but as you said, it becomes a wear and tear pricess; mentally, one doesnt like going through and checking every custom in the thread or whatnot. It gets tiring and makes one less likely to check them admittedly. However, a small Team of mods checking would prevent this. NK as well as Typhon recently spoke o Cali about becoming active again and if need be, more CJ Mods will be modded to help with this, so hopefully the speed of these threads being checked is rectified.



Ninja World


Once again, I feel like this is more to be blamed on the users side and I expressed this in the spoiler.

I do have ideas for it that can be worked out. I have com to the conclusion for the users of two things.

My first idea is the "no consequence events" these are events, wars, story-lines, or anything of that sort. The kages or villages will discuss this behind closed doors and agree on a event that by the end of it, no body gets harmed in actuality. When the event is over, everything is "back" to normal. I am actually trying to have this done with Konohagakure and will be discussing it with LoK soon. But essentially, I think if users are able to dictate events where there is no consequences, such as losing their village or official spots, it decreases the fear factor of participating in events. It makes everything specific to the point where you can literally dictate the story line. I've seen official events, but this would more or less be unofficial events, so it won't be under the official NW storyline, but it can be present to the villages own story line, and this will increase activity because it is entirely in the users hands for activity and have no excuses to be worried and fight. Every fight in the NW matters and if we can eliminate that anxiety in the users, it will be great. This can evolve even the entire NW, just no actual consequences. Now an issue I see with this is, what if people decide to only do this? Well, a village will still have full ability to launch an official war or skirmish, so otherwise, it is just in the hands of the users, and I think NW should be about that. There should be a lot of room for this to be considered and restriction and rules should be agreed by both villages.

Second idea is the concept of a "only rp" event or discussion. The issue with going to the NW is someone always fears they will be attacked or killed without hesitation. Why not allow events go by where two villages agree upon just RPing? No fighting permitted. Or a group of users doing so? Again, only time NW is active is fighting, but even if people just want to RP there will always be the problem that someone attacks. If beforehand there is an agreement between the villages and people that the event or story line they are in at the moment will not be fighting, then it will stay that way. No one issue might arise is that what if someone comes about randomly and attacks who did not agree with the group? Was not apart of the group? Wasn't even in the village when this claim was made? Well I think 1 of two things. There could be an exception to only fighting this one intruder but not the others, but that might be abused due to workings behind the scene, or the concept that a "only rp" event or story line will also mean momentary protection from outside intruders. Honestly, if there are two villages planning for an event, like a carnival or basic stuff like that where we can increase RP, I doubt a random intruder shows up, but otherwise, again, this abolishes the concept of being fearful of fighting, and progresses RP. This allows for love interests, friendship making, and cool events to happen. Now this concept needs to be agreed on by both parties, and again there are holes in it, but hopefully you guys can see where I'm getting at.
This can be done now by submitting a custom event. In terms of smaller, village based events, the same thread can be used; one just has to specify the specific villages involved.

Also, I believe mods can have monthly or annually events posted in the NW where people can be active on. They don't have to be overly unique, it can be regular treasure hunt stuff, rescue missions, NW wrestlemania. Stuff that can be added and individuals can sign up on. This will allow two things. Consistently people will have stuff to do, and it will allow us to pinpoint exactly what is going on when it comes to people being lazy or not. If no one shows up that is the users problem, not the mods. But I would like to see more RP only events going on, where death and consequences aren't always present. Do prizes have to be an option? No, of course not. But this allows us to pinpoint issues with users.

Otherwise, the NW revamp and everything has been well received and done.
The idea is to occasionally have events that shape the entire NW history at one point rather than a series of smaller events happening at the same time or in chronological order. They are normally large events that offer some reward or story change. While they aren't many in number, they do exist and even more planned.
 

Cyber

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
4,132
Kin
85💸
Kumi
1,276💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
I personally love this thread as it isn't a senseless rant like mine was. But you can give the credit to my thread when that thread was made because I read your wall. Nonethless, great thread. I like the ideas except for the testing one. Hopefully Cali likes this idea
 

Lord Orochimaru

Leaf Anbu Elite
Elite
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
5,213
Kin
4💸
Kumi
2,503💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Whoosh* Finally finished reading. I don't give a...........Well I won't comment on Ninja World or Battle Tests or the other, because again I don't give a........... well, I have not experienced those sections enough. But, I am an active training section guy who trains all day. So, I will add some of my comments there.

First, We students really don't want slow trainings. I personally hate those templates like Advantages, Disadvantages, Jutsus that counter ...and that sort of thing because its the job of the of the sensei to teach that to us. I don't like it when senseis give a post asking quesions, if it was clear, of course it was clear but that post will be again replied after 2 days, that is not good. Speed is necessay, WHY??? That's the second point.

Second::: The students don't need information, because the provided information is repetitive. it's just describing the description of the jutsu. What, I would personally like is the sensei informing us about how to use it in real RP, and what to use it in conjunction with. Teach us the jutsus that counter it and its advantages and disadvantages and not ask us.

Conclusion: Do it fast but inform what there is to inform. Don't make it slow just for the sake of what we already know. teach us to RP..... No-one told you to work so hard to rewrite what the jutsu describes. Tell us when to use that, how to use that, what to use it against and how to counter that.....stuff.

LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST, Please stop using those useless template because that uses what we already know and not teach us anything new. Its the senseis or senpais who should write templates and e should just perform it.
 

Priest

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
17,506
Kin
3,010💸
Kumi
41,982💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Whoosh* Finally finished reading. I don't give a...........Well I won't comment on Ninja World or Battle Tests or the other, because again I don't give a........... well, I have not experienced those sections enough. But, I am an active training section guy who trains all day. So, I will add some of my comments there.

First, We students really don't want slow trainings. I personally hate those templates like Advantages, Disadvantages, Jutsus that counter ...and that sort of thing because its the job of the of the sensei to teach that to us. I don't like it when senseis give a post asking quesions, if it was clear, of course it was clear but that post will be again replied after 2 days, that is not good. Speed is necessay, WHY??? That's the second point.

Second::: The students don't need information, because the provided information is repetitive. it's just describing the description of the jutsu. What, I would personally like is the sensei informing us about how to use it in real RP, and what to use it in conjunction with. Teach us the jutsus that counter it and its advantages and disadvantages and not ask us.

Conclusion: Do it fast but inform what there is to inform. Don't make it slow just for the sake of what we already know. teach us to RP..... No-one told you to work so hard to rewrite what the jutsu describes. Tell us when to use that, how to use that, what to use it against and how to counter that.....stuff.

LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST, Please stop using those useless template because that uses what we already know and not teach us anything new. Its the senseis or senpais who should write templates and e should just perform it.
I so disagree with this in many way so I'll treat them one after the other.

First: Its not about Sensei giving a slow training but the student wanting the training to be rushed so that he can quickly gain access to S-rank just for the purpose of throwing jutsus.

And No, many students say they understand but test them and they fail. That's why I do spar with my students during the training and sometime leave them handicapped and watch if they have better understanding of what they had learnt. However you'll be supprised at what the person who said "all is well" would bring to the table.

If a Sensei asks you "Any question" or "Is that clear?", Its not for you to think he's prolonging the training but He needs you to think outside the box and that could spark another session of productive discussion and interaction. Even if you don't have any question, think of "What if this goes wrong" or perhaps, ask the sensei if he could give you a task or a test to further show you understood the subject.


Secondly: If all the time, the sensei teaches you how to everything which is already described and you get to do nothing but nod your head in agreement, then won't that also become stale. How would the sensei know you are able to think and come with ideas which would also help you when you are battle. If you are able to think of a way out yourself and not rely on sensei all the time, then you have confident whenever you are on your own in battle. I am quite sure your sensei won't be there to guide you when you want to battle. So trying now won't hurt. You can not be spoon fed everything. This also applies in real life. You would be ask to do research on your own and many a time would you be given assignments, home work, quiz, exams etc.


So in conclusion: Though some senseis too are not trying but its not that easy too. You too become a sensei, and let's see you won't be meh after six month. It takes grace and zeal to continue with the same thing though you try to improve your way of teaching, you are still going through the same set of jutsus like before.


@Noni, Nice thread n suggestions.
 

King Kendrick

Banned
Veteran
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
3,594
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Whoosh* Finally finished reading. I don't give a...........Well I won't comment on Ninja World or Battle Tests or the other, because again I don't give a........... well, I have not experienced those sections enough. But, I am an active training section guy who trains all day. So, I will add some of my comments there.

First, We students really don't want slow trainings. I personally hate those templates like Advantages, Disadvantages, Jutsus that counter ...and that sort of thing because its the job of the of the sensei to teach that to us. I don't like it when senseis give a post asking quesions, if it was clear, of course it was clear but that post will be again replied after 2 days, that is not good. Speed is necessay, WHY??? That's the second point.

Second::: The students don't need information, because the provided information is repetitive. it's just describing the description of the jutsu. What, I would personally like is the sensei informing us about how to use it in real RP, and what to use it in conjunction with. Teach us the jutsus that counter it and its advantages and disadvantages and not ask us.

Conclusion: Do it fast but inform what there is to inform. Don't make it slow just for the sake of what we already know. teach us to RP..... No-one told you to work so hard to rewrite what the jutsu describes. Tell us when to use that, how to use that, what to use it against and how to counter that.....stuff.

LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST, Please stop using those useless template because that uses what we already know and not teach us anything new. Its the senseis or senpais who should write templates and e should just perform it.
Lol, you seem impatient .

Im guessing you've never had Naruto. as a teacher. Then you'll truly learn the pain of wallies .

No but seriously, they're just trying to help you . 9/10 times you'll end up using the jutsu wrong unless they explain .
 
Top