Rinnengan Sasuke, BM Minato VS Gai And DMS Kakashi

KidGamer65

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We can see a small amount of susanoo chakra still remained after the blast which covers Sasuke. Therefor Sasuke himself can't have been affected by the blast so going by your theory he shouldnt be out of chakra but he does. Your theory doesn't stand.
Let's not be daft. Did Sasuke lose part of his outfit, and get a bunch of scratches on his body from losing chakra? Obviously not. That's because he took the blast. I also suppose that Naruto's jacket was destroyed from "Losing chakra" Lol, am I supposed to be taking you seriously?

Lol and if Kakashi teleports right behind Sasuke he can't react as well as double kamuis speed is even faster than Kaguyas portal tech and Narutos top flying speed.
1. Not faster than Kaguya's portal as Kaguya's portal itself has no speed.

2. Double Kamui teleportation was shown to be barely faster than Madara's Gudo Dama from a 20 meter distance, or so. Amenotejikara is instant.

3. Kakashi still has to attack after teleporting. Sasuke movement speed>>Kakashi's movement speed. Amenotejikara (instant)>>>>>>Double Kamui in speed. So no, Sasuke will react, and easily at that.

4. Naruto's top speed is his Shunshin, not his flight.

Kamui took as much time as Naruto can fly 1cm in the air. Sasuke nowhere has any reaction feat that would compete this speed.
Chakra arms did exceed his reaction feat as a clone needed to save him plus he lacks an "!" mark above him meanwhile Naruto has it.
Except Naruto wasn't moving at top speed (Which is his Shunshin) nor does he fly at top speed all the time, unless you want to say that Sasuke can move just as fast as Naruto can in the air, despite the former not being able to fly. Lol. Feat isn't a feat.

1. Sakura reacted, so no. Unless you think Sakura>Naruto in reaction speed, there is no debate.


2. Naruto did that to test the ability of the hand, so he could relay it to his teammates, which is what he did in the next page. "!" doesn't mean that he can't react, it means that he was surprised.


Sasuke uses his eye once here
then still can't use it here
It proves after every uses it has a cooldwon which isnt as short as you imagine.
I like how you are ignoring Chapter 674. Lol. People are too fond of ignoring evidence when it contradicts their argument. Sasuke used his eye, to exceed his range limit, by swapping with Sakura's jacket, meaning his eye didn't work for a while. Chapter 674, he used his eye 3 times in the span of the fight with Madara, and was about to use it a 4th time.

Yes, i agree. He won't be able to react to the first kamui snipe to begin with.
Based on? Oh wait, nothing.

Also, you drastically underestimate Kakashis reaction speed, an exhausted, chakra left Kakashi could sense Rikudo mode Madara coming from behind , if he had had short range kamui he could have troll Madara with intangibility. Sasukes striking speed far inferior to Madaras. Kakashi pretty much could react to him. It'll never get to that point though.
Lol. Sense? Kakashi can't sense chakra, nor is he fast enough to react to even JJ Obito's speed let alone JJ Madara's. Not to mention when he's exhausted. Let's use common sense. Kakashi turning around was by chance, not because he was able to react to Madara's speed.

Sasuke blitzed Madara w/ Amenotejikara, so the bold isn't true. Not to mention reacting is irrelevant. Kakashi is solid when he attacks, so he dies as he can't go Ghost Mode. Minato did the same exact thing to Obito. Had nothing to do with reaction speed. It had everything to do with timing.
 

Raykyryn

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Let's not be daft. Did Sasuke lose part of his outfit, and get a bunch of scratches on his body from losing chakra? Obviously not. That's because he took the blast. I also suppose that Naruto's jacket was destroyed from "Losing chakra" Lol, am I supposed to be taking you seriously?
Except that Sasuke in the next panel says "I have definitely used too much chakra... i can't control my left eye properly." He says he used up chakra and not lost because of stamina. Also, ive never heard of someone who lost such a huge amount chakra just coz he injured a bit. Its your assumptoin which contradicts Sasukes own words.

. Not faster than Kaguya's portal as Kaguya's portal itself has no speed.

2. Double Kamui teleportation was shown to be barely faster than Madara's Gudo Dama from a 20 meter distance, or so. Amenotejikara is instant.

3. Kakashi still has to attack after teleporting. Sasuke movement speed>>Kakashi's movement speed. Amenotejikara (instant)>>>>>>Double Kamui in speed. So no, Sasuke will react, and easily at that.

4. Naruto's top speed is his Shunshin, not his flight.
1. ok

2. That wasnt rikudo powered uo Kakashi

3. Kakashis striking speed is greater than Sasukes, ask Kaguya.

4. Yet Narutos flight is pretty fast that it seems not to have any disadvantage against Sasukes bijuu ps in terms of speed.

Except Naruto wasn't moving at top speed (Which is his Shunshin) nor does he fly at top speed all the time, unless you want to say that Sasuke can move just as fast as Naruto can in the air, despite the former not being able to fly. . Feat isn't a feat.
Lol what? Sasuke was carried on by the momentum of Narutos clone whom he changed place. Thats why Narutos clone got to Sasuke's unmoving position after the change. Its not a feat? lel on you

1. Sakura reacted, so no. Unless you think Sakura>Naruto in reaction speed, there is no debate.
Even i can react to it when i see it coming from far beforehand. Naruto and Sasuke on the other hand were much closer to the centrum.

2. Naruto did that to test the ability of the hand, so he could relay it to his teammates, which is what he did in the next page. "!" doesn't mean that he can't react, it means that he was surprised.
Ohh yes because Sasuke thought like " ohh i will die in one sec if i dont evade but lets trust in Narutos clone to punch me out of the way" (who was behind him so Sasuke cant even know what the clone is was about to do)

I like how you are ignoring Chapter 674. . People are too fond of ignoring evidence when it contradicts their argument. Sasuke used his eye, to exceed his range limit, by swapping with Sakura's jacket, meaning his eye didn't work for a while. Chapter 674, he used his eye 3 times in the span of the fight with Madara, and was about to use it a 4th time.
Since when he can just increase the range? Even databook states a certain range limit if i remember correctly. I reread that chapter and there are lotta dialogs between each use. Its hard to judge how many time has passed between them.
And Sasuke was pretty close to the kamui barrier when teleported so he didnt even need to increase the limit drastically as you trying to claim.

Based on? Oh wait, nothing.
Based on his lacks of impressive reaction feats.

Sense? Kakashi can't sense chakra, nor is he fast enough to react to even JJ Obito's speed let alone JJ Madara's. Not to mention when he's exhausted. Let's use common sense. Kakashi turning around was by chance, not because he was able to react to Madara's speed.
Who said he sensed chakra? He probably sensed him due to smell (better in it than part 1 Kiba) or presence but he must have sensed him in some way as he turned his head back.
Bold: based on nothing.

Sasuke blitzed Madara w/ Amenotejikara, so the bold isn't true. Not to mention reacting is irrelevant. Kakashi is solid when he attacks, so he dies as he can't go Ghost Mode.
Short range kamui cancels long range. So when he reacts to Sasuke he can pretty much go ghost mode. But as i said earlier he can just kamui sniping out of Sasukes range.

Minato did the same exact thing to Obito. Had nothing to do with reaction speed. It had everything to do with timing.
Kakashis and Gais timing was just as perfect as Minatos yet it failed because adult Obito can react better than the kid one.
 

KidGamer65

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Except that Sasuke in the next panel says "I have definitely used too much chakra... i can't control my left eye properly." He says he used up chakra and not lost because of stamina. Also, ive never heard of someone who lost such a huge amount chakra just coz he injured a bit. Its your assumptoin which contradicts Sasukes own words.
Sasuke being injured is an assumption? Learn what the word means. Sasuke's words can be translated in different ways, and can be interpreted in different ways, what the manga shows can't be interpreted in different ways. You know what's an assumption?

"Sasuke and Susanoo's chakras were one and the same"

Something that not only has no evidence backing, something that also doesn't change anything. The Susanoo he created was formed by his chakra, if he had lost chakra from losing that Susanoo, it wouldn't have put him to near empty, since Kaguya wrecked his Susanoo twice during their fight.




2. That wasnt rikudo powered uo Kakashi
Your point? Kamui has never gotten faster with better chakra, the targets that could be warped got larger.

3. Kakashis striking speed is greater than Sasukes, ask Kaguya.
Kakashi got Kaguya in a bad position, not to mention he caught her by surprise. Pretty much the same thing as Sakura landing a hit on her.

4. Yet Narutos flight is pretty fast that it seems not to have any disadvantage against Sasukes bijuu ps in terms of speed.
1. Naruto never fought Bijuu PS in his human form, so I don't know how you are comparing their flight speed.

2. Naruto used the Kurama Avatar, which got blitzed by Bijuu PS.

3. Naruto's final Avatar=/=Naruto's own flight speed. Not to mention it was never shown combating Sasuke's Bijuu PS in CQC, so I don't know how you are making this comparison.


Lol what? Sasuke was carried on by the momentum of Narutos clone whom he changed place. Thats why Narutos clone got to Sasuke's unmoving position after the change. Its not a feat? lel on you
Uh, no, it's not a feat.

1. You've failed to prove that he was moving at top speed.

2. Sakura came down from Susanoo and punched Kaguya at the same time Naruto and Sasuke touched Kaguya. [ ] Unless you want to say Sakura>Full speed Naruto, I suggest you drop this argument.

Even i can react to it when i see it coming from far beforehand. Naruto and Sasuke on the other hand were much closer to the centrum.
I suggest you look at the scan, again.


That isn't far away.

This is farther actually.


And no, Sakura didn't notice it, or even begin to move until after it was that close.

Ohh yes because Sasuke thought like " ohh i will die in one sec if i dont evade but lets trust in Narutos clone to punch me out of the way" (who was behind him so Sasuke cant even know what the clone is was about to do)
Sasuke didn't think anything, Naruto took action before he had a chance to do anything. Regardless, how does this change anything I said? Naruto slapping Sasuke out of the way only proves that it's not too fast for him to react to.

Since when he can just increase the range? Even databook states a certain range limit if i remember correctly. I reread that chapter and there are lotta dialogs between each use. Its hard to judge how many time has passed between them.
And Sasuke was pretty close to the kamui barrier when teleported so he didnt even need to increase the limit drastically as you trying to claim.
1. Databook never stated any kind of range that the jutsu can be used at. "10 m" obviously isn't a designated limit, unless you think Amaterasu is a Short Range Jutsu as well.

2. Sasuke states that he can teleport in a fixed range, and then says that "this time it worked". Scan shows Sakura's flak jacket. Meaning he was able to get out of that fixed range because he swapped with her flak jacket.

@bold: Sasuke apparently disagrees with you, given his words.

3. You don't need to be Einstein to come to the obvious conclusion that the gap between each of those usages is nowhere near the gap between what you are showing me.



Based on his lacks of impressive reaction feats.
So basically based on nothing then.

Who said he sensed chakra? He probably sensed him due to smell (better in it than part 1 Kiba) or presence but he must have sensed him in some way as he turned his head back.
Bold: based on nothing.
Probably? I don't like assumptions.

Based on characters faster than Kakashi getting blitzed by Obito as the Juubi's Jin.

Short range kamui cancels long range. So when he reacts to Sasuke he can pretty much go ghost mode. But as i said earlier he can just kamui sniping out of Sasukes range.
Except he won't be, cause if Sasuke attacks him while Kakashi is in the middle of an attack, there is no going ghost mode.

Kakashis and Gais timing was just as perfect as Minatos yet it failed because adult Obito can react better than the kid one.
If their timing was as good as Minato's, Obito would have been hit. Kamui is automatic. You activate the jutsu, and then when you are hit, you slip through things. That can be maintained for 5 minutes. When Obito needs to attack, he becomes solid, same goes for Kakashi. If he's attacked mid strike, he has no chance to go intangible. Speed is obviously a partial factor, but since Sasuke is faster, and can instantly teleport, there is no issue here.
 

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Sasuke being injured is an assumption? Learn what the word means. Sasuke's words can be translated in different ways, and can be interpreted in different ways, what the manga shows can't be interpreted in different ways. You know what's an assumption?

"Sasuke and Susanoo's chakras were one and the same"

Something that not only has no evidence backing, something that also doesn't change anything. The Susanoo he created was formed by his chakra, if he had lost chakra from losing that Susanoo, it wouldn't have put him to near empty, since Kaguya wrecked his Susanoo twice during their fight.
Bold: Viz has the same translation
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and no, he clearly says he used too much chakra which has nothing to do with stamina or injury.
Plus Hagoromo didn't give him stamina but chakra thus that chakra shouldn't have run out after being injured , it runs out when he uses it up.
"Sasuke and Susanoo's chakras were one and the same" Yes, all proves it was the case since along with bijuu ps his chakra ran out as well.

Your point? Kamui has never gotten faster with better chakra, the targets that could be warped got larger.
It gets faster with better kamui control what he can do better with Obitos chakra+eye (DMS Kakashi) than only with Obitos eye (MS Kakashi).

Kakashi got Kaguya in a bad position, not to mention he caught her by surprise. Pretty much the same thing as Sakura landing a hit on her.
In both Sasuke's and Kakashi's cases Kaguya got an "!" mark over her which you said earlier portrays surprise. Yet Sasuke failed to catch her "by surprise" unlike Kakashi. Not mentioning she was in a power-up state when faced Kakashi and a chakra-left state when faced Sasuke.
Underlined: Lol no. She can fly thus possesses all directions to dodge. Yet couldn't.
Bold: She was surrounded by Naruto and Sasuke so she decided to fly up at top speed meaning she basically flew into Sakura's punch as its hard to dodge and counter at that level of speed.

1. Naruto never fought Bijuu PS in his human form, so I don't know how you are comparing their flight speed.

2. Naruto used the Kurama Avatar, which got blitzed by Bijuu PS.

3. Naruto's final Avatar=/=Naruto's own flight speed. Not to mention it was never shown combating Sasuke's Bijuu PS in CQC, so I don't know how you are making this comparison.
1. Bijuu avatar itself can't fly so his flying ability should work exactly the same way in both forms.

2. I was talking about flight speed not Amenotejikara.

3. Proof that it adds a plus in speed or whatever? Not to mention Naruto was already on low senjutsu level compared to the Kaguya fight therefor his speed should have been reduced. And CQC did happened.

Uh, no, it's not a feat.

1. You've failed to prove that he was moving at top speed.

2. Sakura came down from Susanoo and punched Kaguya at the same time Naruto and Sasuke touched Kaguya. [X] Unless you want to say Sakura>Full speed Naruto, I suggest you drop this argument.
1. Why it has to be proven to begin with? There was no reason for him not to fly at top speed.
2. No, she hit her back to her initial position and it was because of Kaguyas speed not Sakuras, see above.

I suggest you look at the scan, again.


That isn't far away.

This is farther actually.


And no, Sakura didn't notice it, or even begin to move until after it was that close.

In the bottom right corner you can see Naruto is a slightly higher than the thickness of the chakra arms finger. In the picture above it you can notice the same despite the fact that the chakra arm is still in the foreground. So Sasuke and Naruto were pretty close to it.

And no, Sakura didn't notice it, or even begin to move until after it was that close.
"That close" isn't as close as at Sasuke.

Sasuke didn't think anything, Naruto took action before he had a chance to do anything. Regardless, how does this change anything I said? Naruto slapping Sasuke out of the way only proves that it's not too fast for him to react to.
I was refering to Sasuke's reaction not Naruto's. Despite possessing both rinnegan and sharingan precog , a Naruto clone could outreact him. And why would have Kishi made a clone save Sasuke if he has teleportation? Obv answer: he would have failed to use it in time because of his reaction speed weren't enough.

1. Databook never stated any kind of range that the jutsu can be used at. "10 m" obviously isn't a designated limit, unless you think Amaterasu is a Short Range Jutsu as well.

2. Sasuke states that he can teleport in a fixed range, and then says that "this time it worked". Scan shows Sakura's flak jacket. Meaning he was able to get out of that fixed range because he swapped with her flak jacket.

@bold: Sasuke apparently disagrees with you, given his words.

3. You don't need to be Einstein to come to the obvious conclusion that the gap between each of those usages is nowhere near the gap between what you are showing me.
Even assuming he could react to kamui snipe in time (which by feats he can't) and evade by teleport , while being on cooldown he has nothing to counter to the snipe as it is lot faster than any attacks Sasuke has bar teleport.

Probably? I don't like assumptions.

Based on characters faster than Kakashi getting blitzed by Obito as the Juubi's Jin.

"Sensei, your left eye..?!?! ...Madara stole away my sharingan.." Kakashi knew that Madara was the one who stole away his sharingan therefor he did realize him in some way.

It doesn't matter if one is physically faster than him because it has nothing to do with activating short range kamui. It depends on reaction speed.
And in case you are referring to KCM Naruto then MS Kakashi is better in that aspect >One can counter to Obitos striking, one can not.

Except he won't be, cause if Sasuke attacks him while Kakashi is in the middle of an attack, there is no going ghost mode.
If Kakashi can react to Sasuke, so he realizes him counterattacking , then he can just activate short range kamui what will both automatic cancel long range out and activate ghost mode.

If their timing was as good as Minato's, Obito would have been hit. Kamui is automatic. You activate the jutsu, and then when you are hit, you slip through things. That can be maintained for 5 minutes. When Obito needs to attack, he becomes solid, same goes for Kakashi. If he's attacked mid strike, he has no chance to go intangible. Speed is obviously a partial factor, but since Sasuke is faster, and can instantly teleport, there is no issue here.
1. Kamui still outranges Sasukes tech.
2.Even if he materializes when withing its range (what he doesn't need ) and Sasuke happens not to be on cooldown, Kakashi still can react to Sasukes striking speed after his teleport or having touch with his kage bunshins which cover him from every direction and can activate ghost mode anytime.
 
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