[Theory] Rinnegan's secret TRUTH (weak)

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

1) I'll have to look into it as i have never heard of this but it doesn't change the overall point if you read number 3 you'll see. But the 6 paths of pain are different from the sage of the six paths. As Nagato being the "7th path of pain" would prove. The SO6P wasn't the SO7P.........

2) Yes rinnegan DOES own sharingan...... When the SO6P is using it. Thats what this thread was ABOUT dude. Learn to read.

3) You say the rinnegan has the same skills no matter who is using it? THEN HOW COME THE SO6P COULD USE IZANAGI??? NAGATO COULDN'T. IN FACT ONLY SHARINGAN USERS CAN RIGHT NOW! SO OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE MISTAKEN SINCE THE MANGA STATES THAT THE SO6P USED IZANAGI TO CREATE THE BIJU AND THE WHOLE OF THE NINJA WORLD AND HE HAD THE RINNEGAN!!!

4) I hope YOU have been Enlightened (correct spelling makes you seem smarter!) to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT WHEN YOU ARE WRONG SIR!!!:flaw:

....The Sage used Creation of All Things. Not Izanagi. Izanagi was spurred by Creation of All Things.

Just because Nagato DIDN'T use it didn't mean that he COULDN'T use it. He was low on chakra by the time he revived everyone, that I doubt he would have been able to use a taxing jutsu like Izanagi anyway.

Danzo was able to use it because Hashirama's cells were jumping his chakra levels up. Nagato didn't have that.

 

[Swizzik]

i respect your opinion but i think its wrong...

 

[PositiveEmotions]

....The Sage used Creation of All Things. Not Izanagi. Izanagi was spurred by Creation of All Things.

Just because Nagato DIDN'T use it didn't mean that he COULDN'T use it. He was low on chakra by the time he revived everyone, that I doubt he would have been able to use a taxing jutsu like Izanagi anyway.

Danzo was able to use it because Hashirama's cells were jumping his chakra levels up. Nagato didn't have that.

wut wut r u trying to say that nagato mite b able to use izangi

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

i respect your opinion but i think its wrong...

And HERE is a mature post.... He THINKS its wrong. Thank you sir rep+.

I have been respectful of inceptions right to disagree, i would just appreciate the courtesy of not being told i'm flat out wrong on something that, at this point, is worded in a way that is easily interpreted two ways.

Inceptions accusations of me "making up" theories? That's what theories are. But all of them are based on the manga. And he keeps clinging to "random examples" of "possible scenarios" i have mentioned as if they are things i view as fact. PRACTICALLY NOTHING I'VE POSTED IN THIS THREAD ARE VIEWED BY ME AS FACT. They are just theories and possibilities to discuss.

But for inception to say Kakashi said it at the beginning of the first series and it has no possibility of not being right when it's worded in a non-factual way AND Kishi OFTEN reveals information like that to be different from how it was originally told. And now that we've also been told through SO6P legend that Uchiha goes back to elder son...... Thats TWO reasons to question "they say"...... Again not saying it IS wrong just saying it CAN be.

 

[Inception]

And HERE is a mature post.... He THINKS its wrong. Thank you sir rep+.

I have been respectful of inceptions right to disagree, i would just appreciate the courtesy of not being told i'm flat out wrong on something that, at this point, is worded in a way that is easily interpreted two ways.

Inceptions accusations of me "making up" theories? That's what theories are. But all of them are based on the manga. And he keeps clinging to "random examples" of "possible scenarios" i have mentioned as if they are things i view as fact. PRACTICALLY NOTHING I'VE POSTED IN THIS THREAD ARE VIEWED BY ME AS FACT. They are just theories and possibilities to discuss.

But for inception to say Kakashi said it at the beginning of the first series and it has no possibility of not being right when it's worded in a non-factual way AND Kishi OFTEN reveals information like that to be different from how it was originally told. And now that we've also been told through SO6P legend that Uchiha goes back to elder son...... Thats TWO reasons to question "they say"...... Again not saying it IS wrong just saying it CAN be.

Everything Tobi says contradicts with what actually happened. A grand example of this is the 9 Tails Fox's attack on the Leaf. Kishi makes Tobi lie constantly yet you believe every word that comes out of his mouth. For all we know, the legend of So6P and the story of the brother's hating each other could all be made up just like his story of the Nine Tail Fox's attack and how his younger brother "volunteered" to give him the eyes.

Please review my last post and let me know what you think about the Hyuga . You are wrong about the fact that only the Uchiha and Senju are the only 2 main bloodlines of So6P. I actually agreed with your theory in the beginning (look at my 1st post in this thread) but as I did some research, I found evidence of Kishi stating that Hyuga has connections to the origins of Uchiha and that Hyuga is the oldest clan in Konoha. The oldest, not the clan that lived in Konoha the longest.

Edit: I did not mean to be rude in anyway, I apologize if I did.

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

Everything Tobi says contradicts with what actually happened. A grand example of this is the 9 Tails Fox's attack on the Leaf. Kishi makes Tobi lie constantly yet you believe every word that comes out of his mouth. For all we know, the legend of So6P and the story of the brother's hating each other could all be made up just like his story of the Nine Tail Fox's attack and how his younger brother "volunteered" to give him the eyes.

Please review my last post and let me know what you think about the Hyuga . You are wrong about the fact that only the Uchiha and Senju are the only 2 main bloodlines of So6P. I actually agreed with your theory in the beginning (look at my 1st post in this thread) but as I did some research, I found evidence of Kishi stating that Hyuga has connections to the origins of Uchiha and that Hyuga is the oldest clan in Konoha. The oldest, not the clan that lived in Konoha the longest.

Edit: I did not mean to be rude in anyway, I apologize if I did.

Your bolded part? i understood what you meant. and i know madara can't always be taken at his word. but this has been proven at least mostly true by the fact that after attaining only those two bloodline he is able to use almost all of the SO6P abilities. and as he is the (apparently) the oldest living person, and his whole plan is based on this stuff being true, it doesn't make sense for his information to be wrong. but it could be.

Lets take a look at the word clan though. Even if you are right and Hyuuga are the oldest clan, the Uchiha were warriors and spread out, not recognized as a clan until Madara gathered and united them. Not my words thats how they were founded. The uchiha bloodline therefore existed long before they were actually a clan. This is a fact as Madara wasn't the first uchiha if there were dozens of others to unite into a clan (look at kichi's drawings). And if Madara shares blood with Hyuuga then that could easily explain how the Uchiha clans origins lie with the hyuuga clan.

So perhaps me thinking bloodline when you were thinking clan clouded this debate?:shrug:

 

[Inception]

Your bolded part? i understood what you meant. and i know madara can't always be taken at his word. but this has been proven at least mostly true by the fact that after attaining only those two bloodline he is able to use almost all of the SO6P abilities. and as he is the (apparently) the oldest living person, and his whole plan is based on this stuff being true, it doesn't make sense for his information to be wrong. but it could be.

Lets take a look at the word clan though. Even if you are right and Hyuuga are the oldest clan, the Uchiha were warriors and spread out, not recognized as a clan until Madara gathered and united them. Not my words thats how they were founded. The uchiha bloodline therefore existed long before they were actually a clan. This is a fact as Madara wasn't the first uchiha if there were dozens of others to unite into a clan (look at kichi's drawings). And if Madara shares blood with Hyuuga then that could easily explain how the Uchiha clans origins lie with the hyuuga clan.

So perhaps me thinking bloodline when you were thinking clan clouded this debate?:shrug:

1. How do you know he's using all of the So6P's abilities? So6P created the art of ninjutsu. He created ALL of the abilities. Izanagi is only one of the thousands of abilities that So6P had.

2. His whole plan is to control everyone in the world. He goes around telling everyone how the So6P in the legends had 2 kids where the older hated the younger. This is all legends/ stories coming out of a mouth of the same person who contradicted the storyline of Naruto more than once. It actually makes a lot of sense for his information is false. He lied several times in the past, he will continue to lie to further his goals.

3. No, that is not how they were founded. This is what I hate, you are making stuff up again. The Uchihas existed before Madara was born. He was born with higher chakra than anyone else and he was very powerful. He quickly took over the clan with his brother. We have no idea how Uchiha was founded prior to Madara taking over. We do know that their origins lie with the Hyuga clan. Sharingan can very well be the mutation of Byakugan which can be a mutation of the Rinnegan.

I don't understand why you are denying the fact that Hyuga clan may be one of the main bloodlines of the So6P. No where does it state that only Uchiha and Senju are the main bloodlines. Just because they don't have a power-hungry, revenge-filled loser in their clan going around trying to destroy the world does not mean they have no part with the So6P.

I'm not denying the fact that So6P had Senju blood, he had Uchiha blood also but So6P created the ninja world. Hyuga are surely connected to the elder son. They have ocular eyes just like the elder brother, they possess one of the three great Dojutsu. They are known to be the oldest clan in Konoha.

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

1. How do you know he's using all of the So6P's abilities? So6P created the art of ninjutsu. He created ALL of the abilities. Izanagi is only one of the thousands of abilities that So6P had.

2. His whole plan is to control everyone in the world. He goes around telling everyone how the So6P in the legends had 2 kids where the older hated the younger. This is all legends/ stories coming out of a mouth of the same person who contradicted the storyline of Naruto more than once. It actually makes a lot of sense for his information is false. He lied several times in the past, he will continue to lie to further his goals.

3. No, that is not how they were founded. This is what I hate, you are making stuff up again. The Uchihas existed before Madara was born. He was born with higher chakra than anyone else and he was very powerful. He quickly took over the clan with his brother. We have no idea how Uchiha was founded prior to Madara taking over. We do know that their origins lie with the Hyuga clan. Sharingan can very well be the mutation of Byakugan which can be a mutation of the Rinnegan.

I don't understand why you are denying the fact that Hyuga clan may be one of the main bloodlines of the So6P. No where does it state that only Uchiha and Senju are the main bloodlines. Just because they don't have a power-hungry, revenge-filled loser in their clan going around trying to destroy the world does not mean they have no part with the So6P.

I'm not denying the fact that So6P had Senju blood, he had Uchiha blood also but So6P created the ninja world. Hyuga are surely connected to the elder son. They have ocular eyes just like the elder brother, they possess one of the three great Dojutsu. They are known to be the oldest clan in Konoha.

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But "they" were wrong since he is an uzumaki you see? So NO, we don't KNOW the Uchiha origigins lie with the Hyuuga. We only know "they" say that, which as my reference PROVES FROM THE MANGA, is not reliable as FACT. "They" might be right but it is still not FACT.... It is RUMOR. Thats how grammar works. You have to look at the wording and understand its meaning.

And you are right, Madara took control of the clan (who were wandering mercenaries). He FOUNDED konoha with hashirama. I DON'T make shit up. Being MISTAKEN is NOT making something up. I don't know why you want to make someone remembering something a little wrong into such a big deal that you accuse them of trying to be deceitful over it. I offer a possibility? i'm making things up. I remember something wrong? You don't correct me, NO, i'm making things up.

And rinnegan allows use of all styles of ninjutsu and summoning and resurrection so SO6P having it probably allowed him to create all the ninjutsu when combined with his creation tech and massive chakra and strength.

And i'm denying Hyuuga b/c TWO sons TWO bloodlines. Manga says Uchiha and Senju were the TWO STRONGEST. So why do you think there are more just as important (besides those born from prophesy?)

 

[siyo]

I haven't accused anyone of making an assumption. All i have said is that you can't say i'm wrong if your point is questionable too. i'm not saying that kakashi's statement is untrue that would be stupid. i'm saying that the way it is worded easily makes its meaning able to be interpreted either way so when he posted that i was wrong because of those statements in the manga, i simply tried to show him that those are shaky examples. If kakashi had made that statement BEFORE the uchiha clan was killed off there would be no room for question. If kakashi had said "the uchiha clan has their origins with the hyuuga" there would be no room for question. But thats not what was said.

Also i never made the assumption of an order to not speak of it. I only said it was possible. And when he tried to mock me for "making up another theory" on a site thats all about discussing theories, i defended that theory with precedent from the village. "IF, "COULD", and "MAYBE" are words used when speculating NOT assuming.

The ONLY thing i think he was wrong about (since theories aren't right or wrong until the story progresses that far) is that Uchiha and Senju are the two main bloodlines of the SO6P. If they weren't then how come they are the only two bloodlines Kishi showed to trace back to SO6P? Sure there could be more families but there are only two bloodlines (not counting Uzumaki since they are related to one of them) that carry the will and destiny of the SO6P according to Kishi's story. And since the manga is going to be ending soon, there isn't much time to be backstory for secondary characters anymore... But we'll see

Yes konohamaru is a sarutobi but can you show an example of them talking about the "sarutobi clan" being part of konoha? Every group they refer to as a "clan" you see lots of shinobi easily identifiable as part of that clan in every large battle (i.e. Akamichi, Abarame, Inuzuka) and each clan provides a service usually (yamanaka=intel, inuzuka=training ninja hounds, uchiha=police force when alive). Plus Sasuke always talks about "restoring his clan" not replenishing or rebuilding. Restoring denotes restoring their "status" as in, their status as a clan. One person is not a clan.

heres the definition of clan: A clan is a group of people united by actual or perceived kinship and descent.
group of people. not one or two. So by definition the Uchihas are not extinct but THE CLAN IS as it no longer exists.

Trust me,you have assumed plenty too,but nothing wrong with speculating,and as long you're not claiming your opnion to be a fact then it is obviously fine.
You are wrong when you say a theory can't be disproven.You could have build your entire theory with wrong facts,and it would,automatically, turn into a failed theory if someone corrects them with manga pages e.g. if the translation you read turns out to be wrong,or when you're simply mistaken.

i'm glad you recognize what kakashi said was true,but you are going over semantics(with the wording),and nobody would understand a thing from the manga if you did that throughout the series.Kakashi also stays consistent,when he goes on to say that the byakugan is stronger/better than the regular sharingan.


Obviously, anything is possible,but some things are more likely than others.

The Sarutobi clan (猿飛一族, Sarutobi Ichizoku) is an influential clan from Konohagakure. It has produced several notable members who have held positions of high authority, such as Hokage, or membership in the Twelve Guardian Ninja. All known members have also been observed devotees of the Will of Fire.

And who strenghten the unity between some of the clans you mentioned? A sarutobi......did you forget about the earrings?

I know the definition of the word clan, but here konohamarohu clearly identifies himself as part of the sarutobi clan

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[Jelwajo]

I think the rinnegan is the strongest when controlled by someone with teh capacity to think for themselves. (read: Nagato was consumed by hate, and worked under madara and afterwards kabuto)

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

Trust me,you have assumed plenty too,but nothing wrong with speculating,and as long you're not claiming your opnion to be a fact then it is obviously fine.
You are wrong when you say a theory can't be disproven.You could have build your entire theory with wrong facts,and it would,automatically, turn into a failed theory if someone corrects them with manga pages e.g. if the translation you read turns out to be wrong,or when you're simply mistaken.

i'm glad you recognize what kakashi said was true,but you are going over semantics(with the wording),and nobody would understand a thing from the manga if you did that throughout the series.Kakashi also stays consistent,when he goes on to say that the byakugan is stronger/better than the regular sharingan.


Obviously, anything is possible,but some things are more likely than others.



And who strenghten the unity between some of the clans you mentioned? A sarutobi......did you forget about the earrings?

I know the definition of the word clan, but here konohamarohu clearly identifies himself as part of the sarutobi clan

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Well yeah, a theory that is outrageous or based on misinformation can obviously be proven wrong. I just meant a theory about the future based on facts that have already occurred can't proved wrong except by Kishi's new issues, only agreed with or disagreed with. Theories are what makes this site fun! Why talk only about whats already happened?

However, in regards to Kakashi's "they say" statement? That is definitely not semantics. If you read my last post i showed straight from the manga another example of the exact same thing being said and it being not accurate. When Kakashi stated "they are" the oldest clan, it was a statement of fact, something he knew to be true. When he said "they say" it was a statement of hearsay, something he had heard but didn't know to be fact. All other history in the manga is told through definitives such as, "they are", or "they were". If you say "it's believed" or "it's said" that denoted unconfirmed information. Thats just how words work. If people don't agree with me then that means they don't understand how to comprehend what they read properly. Simple as that. Looking at the words used to say something is the only way to understand what was meant by the statement. So if people think it isn't important how it's worded, then i think their opinion isn't important. You can't choose which meaning changing details you will and won't let affect your understanding of something. It doesn't mean "right" and "wrong" it means admitting the possibility that something COULD mean something other than you thought when presented with reasonable evidence that there is more than one way something can be interpreted.

And yeah Konohamaru said he was from that clan, but the clan still doesn't qualify as a clan anymore. He comes from the Sarutobi clan but since he's the only one now there is no group to be called a clan. If a clan is a group of people, then Sarutobi is now just a bloodline and not a clan. It could become a clan again once the number of them grows. But you can't argue with the definition of a word. Its fact. One person can not be a clan. It's not my opinion. It's not my fault. It also isn't arguable. If the definition say group, then one person=not a clan.

 

[Paradox Ruler]

Well yeah, a theory that is outrageous or based on misinformation can obviously be proven wrong. I just meant a theory about the future based on facts that have already occurred can't proved wrong except by Kishi's new issues, only agreed with or disagreed with. Theories are what makes this site fun! Why talk only about whats already happened?

However, in regards to Kakashi's "they say" statement? That is definitely not semantics. If you read my last post i showed straight from the manga another example of the exact same thing being said and it being not accurate. When Kakashi stated "they are" the oldest clan, it was a statement of fact, something he knew to be true. When he said "they say" it was a statement of hearsay, something he had heard but didn't know to be fact. All other history in the manga is told through definitives such as, "they are", or "they were". If you say "it's believed" or "it's said" that denoted unconfirmed information. Thats just how words work. If people don't agree with me then that means they don't understand how to comprehend what they read properly. Simple as that. Looking at the words used to say something is the only way to understand what was meant by the statement. So if people think it isn't important how it's worded, then i think their opinion isn't important. You can't choose which meaning changing details you will and won't let affect your understanding of something. It doesn't mean "right" and "wrong" it means admitting the possibility that something COULD mean something other than you thought when presented with reasonable evidence that there is more than one way something can be interpreted.

And yeah Konohamaru said he was from that clan, but the clan still doesn't qualify as a clan anymore. He comes from the Sarutobi clan but since he's the only one now there is no group to be called a clan. If a clan is a group of people, then Sarutobi is now just a bloodline and not a clan. It could become a clan again once the number of them grows. But you can't argue with the definition of a word. Its fact. One person can not be a clan. It's not my opinion. It's not my fault. It also isn't arguable. If the definition say group, then one person=not a clan.

you have a ok theory but it has so many flaws that make you have to reply to defend itmaking you into deeper holes sasying one person can't be considered a clan or even if there 2 like itachi ans sasuke you say they won't ention itachi(there are even more flaws) but you have a nice theory to listen and see what comes out from reponses.
for this post you allowed me to sync your stuff

 

[veggetta13]

Im cool with yur theory..stating it ios quite subjective.
Why?
Because, objectively, we have witnessed the destructive and creative power of the Rinnegan..already. Life giver, taker, kuchiyose ninjitsu, mind, body contrlling..etc.

What are u saying?

You are somehow expecting for Kishi enlightning this story of the doujutsus again, which he is not.

Why?
Because showing the former jinchurikis wielding, armored, with both RINNE-SHARINGAN
means he`s done with the eye game. otherwise evil Madar would have mixed both into one with the power of Izanagi

 

[AbukariDogMan]

THEN HOW COME THE SO6P COULD USE IZANAGI??? NAGATO COULDN'T. IN FACT ONLY SHARINGAN USERS CAN RIGHT NOW! SO OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE MISTAKEN SINCE THE MANGA STATES THAT THE SO6P USED IZANAGI TO CREATE THE BIJU AND THE WHOLE OF THE NINJA WORLD AND HE HAD THE RINNEGAN!!!


Because he knew how to use it.

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

Im cool with yur theory..stating it ios quite subjective.
Why?
Because, objectively, we have witnessed the destructive and creative power of the Rinnegan..already. Life giver, taker, kuchiyose ninjitsu, mind, body contrlling..etc.

What are u saying?

You are somehow expecting for Kishi enlightning this story of the doujutsus again, which he is not.

Why?
Because showing the former jinchurikis wielding, armored, with both RINNE-SHARINGAN
means he`s done with the eye game. otherwise evil Madar would have mixed both into one with the power of Izanagi

I can't really agree with that since Izanagi uses all the light of the eye that uses it, it wouldn't work to combine two eyes into one since one of those said eyes would then be useless. It would be like adding zero to the rinnegan since the sharingan that uses izanagi dies out when its used.

And all i'm saying is i expect the rinnegan techs to get stronger and maybe see some new ones now that an uchiha/senju wields it.

 

[Hei]

rinnengan has no weakness !!!

 

[siyo]

Well yeah, a theory that is outrageous or based on misinformation can obviously be proven wrong. I just meant a theory about the future based on facts that have already occurred can't proved wrong except by Kishi's new issues, only agreed with or disagreed with. Theories are what makes this site fun! Why talk only about whats already happened?

Nobody claimed a theory couldn’t be fun, but some people might enjoy other discussions, and your idea of fun might not reflect others. Will Madara show new powers regarding the rinnegan? Probably, since he is the main villain and the fact that he is more experienced and knowledgeable than nagato, and not because of the so called “paths”. But who really knows?

However, in regards to Kakashi's "they say" statement? That is definitely not semantics. If you read my last post i showed straight from the manga another example of the exact same thing being said and it being not accurate. When Kakashi stated "they are" the oldest clan, it was a statement of fact, something he knew to be true. When he said "they say" it was a statement of hearsay, something he had heard but didn't know to be fact. All other history in the manga is told through definitives such as, "they are", or "they were". If you say "it's believed" or "it's said" that denoted unconfirmed information. Thats just how words work. If people don't agree with me then that means they don't understand how to comprehend what they read properly. Simple as that. Looking at the words used to say something is the only way to understand what was meant by the statement. So if people think it isn't important how it's worded, then i think their opinion isn't important. You can't choose which meaning changing details you will and won't let affect your understanding of something. It doesn't mean "right" and "wrong" it means admitting the possibility that something COULD mean something other than you thought when presented with reasonable evidence that there is more than one way something can be interpreted. .

And? That proves nothing, because I could find direct quotes from the manga, which turned out to be wrong.Madara flat out lied to sasuke, Oro said his sword could pierce anything, it was said that amataresu burns like the sun, and it was also said to be unavoidable, so I don’t know what you’re trying to prove by finding an incorrect rumor, besides that guy was clearly confused and you also have to consider the source. What do we know about that guy? Thought so….But kakashi’s a respected hokage candidate, who doesn’t believe anything he hears, hence a credible source. Nothing is certain, but the most likely scenario is that Kishi is telling us the truth via Kakashi. The only difference between the words is that kakashi hasn’t personally witnessed ,or confirmed it, but he has heard from credible sources, since we can safely assume kakashi doesn’t spread false rumors, that he believes it to be the truth.It is not as black and white as you want it to look,it's all about context and the fact that everything we percieve to be true could turn out be wrong, so if that is all you wanted then you're right,but as i said before some things are more likely than others.

If you don’t think people’s opinion is important, why the hell should you be any different? On one hand you demand respect by asking people to not give one line responses and on the other you act superior, you can’t have it both ways.

And yeah Konohamaru said he was from that clan, but the clan still doesn't qualify as a clan anymore. He comes from the Sarutobi clan but since he's the only one now there is no group to be called a clan. If a clan is a group of people, then Sarutobi is now just a bloodline and not a clan. It could become a clan again once the number of them grows. But you can't argue with the definition of a word. Its fact. One person can not be a clan. It's not my opinion. It's not my fault. It also isn't arguable. If the definition say group, then one person=not a clan.

I never stated otherwise , I just nullified your Sasuke argument (him not talking about rebuilding the uchiha clan).Konohamaru clearly identified himself a part of the Sarutobi clan, even though it is technically incorrect. You also asked for an example about “them” talking about the sarutobi clan, and I gave you just that, so I don’t understand the angle you’re attacking.

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

Nobody claimed a theory couldn’t be fun, but some people might enjoy other discussions, and your idea of fun might not reflect others. Will Madara show new powers regarding the rinnegan? Probably, since he is the main villain and the fact that he is more experienced and knowledgeable than nagato, and not because of the so called “paths”. But who really knows?



And? That proves nothing, because I could find direct quotes from the manga, which turned out to be wrong.Madara flat out lied to sasuke, Oro said his sword could pierce anything, it was said that amataresu burns like the sun, and it was also said to be unavoidable, so I don’t know what you’re trying to prove by finding an incorrect rumor, besides that guy was clearly confused and you also have to consider the source. What do we know about that guy? Thought so….But kakashi’s a respected hokage candidate, who doesn’t believe anything he hears, hence a credible source. Nothing is certain, but the most likely scenario is that Kishi is telling us the truth via Kakashi. The only difference between the words is that kakashi hasn’t personally witnessed ,or confirmed it, but he has heard from credible sources, since we can safely assume kakashi doesn’t spread false rumors, that he believes it to be the truth.It is not as black and white as you want it to look,it's all about context and the fact that everything we percieve to be true could turn out be wrong, so if that is all you wanted then you're right,but as i said before some things are more likely than others.

If you don’t think people’s opinion is important, why the hell should you be any different? On one hand you demand respect by asking people to not give one line responses and on the other you act superior, you can’t have it both ways.



I never stated otherwise , I just nullified your Sasuke argument (him not talking about rebuilding the uchiha clan).Konohamaru clearly identified himself a part of the Sarutobi clan, even though it is technically incorrect. You also asked for an example about “them” talking about the sarutobi clan, and I gave you just that, so I don’t understand the angle you’re attacking.

Well kids were asking Kakashi about the byakugan so he told them what he had heard and what he knew. i don't think he was intentionally spreading missinformation but i also posted other examples in the manga where that phrase was used and turned out inaccurate. like rain shinobe saying "they say" pain is from the fuma clan when we now know he is an uzumaki.

You said you don't understand the point i was trying to make with it well here it is; My satatement that uchiha and senju are the two main bloodlines was being called flatout WRONG based only on what Kakashi said there when it is obviously a statement that is not FACT but only "word of mouth" I didn't "FIND AN INCORRECT RUMOR", that statement was used to say that i was "DEAD WRONG" about thinking the uchiha's were "more closely related" or "able to be traced back further to SO6P" than the Hyuuga clan!!! I was merely proving that Kakashi's statement (as you yourself pointed out) can't be used as a WRITTEN IN STONE piece of FACT, especially with the other refferences from the manga i've provided (even though he keeps accusing me of "making things up when i post manga links lol)

The only respect i was asking for was the respect to not have someone saying "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!" and then STILL arguing when i showed trhem proof that the statement that they were using for reference was, by its very definition, not even a factual statement. ANY statement Kishi could go back on but THAT ONE? Its a rumor to start with! AND it was at the very beginning of the first series and we have since been told much more of the uchiha that seems to contradict that statement. True it came from Madara and ha has lied in the past but only to manipulate people. Lying about uchihas origins had no gain for him and if its untrue then his plans aren't going to work right, so he obviously REALLY believes that history. Im not saying its true, im just saying it wouldnt benefit him to lie about it so HE MUST REALLY believe it.

And lastly..... Konohamaru doesn't say hes a member of the sarutobi clan, he only said he came from that clan. He is the last decendant of that clan. Definitions of words are non-negotiable. A clan is a GROUP OF PEOPLE sharing decent or beliefs real or imagined. That is the ACTUAL definition. You might as well try to argue that Couple can mean three instead of just two! There is no arguement here. And the definition of a group is UNIFIED people. So therefore since sasuke hated itachi at that point (when kakashi made that statement), and itachi doesn't want madara to succeed in hurting the village, there NO UNITY BETWEEN THE UCHIHA WHICH EXCLUDES THEM FROM FALLING UNDER THE DEFINITION OF A CLAN! And now if sasuke is truly allying with Madara, they can be called a clan again but when Kakashi said "hyuuga is the oldest clan in konaha" the uchiha clearly didn't exist to be included in that statement. But i get told "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!" even though now we have clearly been told that Uchiha go all the way back to SO6P! (i know it came from madara) but this is further evidenced by the fact that uchihas blood unlocks SO6P's abilities! AND the only people that have EVER been able to control biju are the Sage of the Six Paths, SENJU Hashirama (which i said was a main bloodline) Uchiha Madara (again i said main bloodline) They said "perhaps" Yagura the 4th mizukage but it was then revealed that Madara was controlling him. Once the jutsu controlling him was broken by Ao, Yagura is now dead and the Sanbi rampaged so obviously Madara was the one taming Yagura's Sanbi and not Yagura. And lastly Bee, but he can't control the hachibi he just did special training to overcome his own darkness to keep from being able to be consumed by the hachibi and THEN they became friends. Bee doesn't control hachibi, THEY ARE FRIENDS. So taking that into account....... SO6P controls Jubi, then the only two shinobi that can also CONTROL BIJU?? Hashirama SENJU and Madara UCHIHA. So i'm trying to understand why there was so much argument against me saying that uchiha and senju are the two main bloodlines of the SO6P......... All the evidence points that way including the story about them being "chosen by destiny.

 

[siyo]

Ok,you cleared a lot of things up.You're not flat out wrong since there is no definitive answer,only stuff implied throughout the story.You said yourself madara is not trustworthy,and whom are we to guess about his motives behind his lying and his lust for manipulating people. Fact is he lied once,and he could do it again.

Yagura was said to be a perfect host(fact) and the reason he went on a rampage was because of madara's powerful genjutsu.It was so powerful that onoki himself said it is all over when madara gets you.He even got a perfect host,such as yagura,in a genjutsu when it was supposed to be impossible, because the beast should have been able to knock yagura out of it.

anyhow, i understand your point, and hope you enjoyed your vacation.