Resealing yin Kurama saves Jin

[Meowazziel]

Yin Kurama doesn't have the life force that Yang Kurama has how the heck is that supposed to help Naruto's life force which is at an all time low. IE not being able to beat his own heart.

Its a retcon face it, Kushina could have survived by this logic. Hence why I'm so disappointed with kishi atm. He should have used the Gedo arm, that would have actually made some damn sense.

Medical jutsus are based on yin right? So I guess there is a way it can work. Kushina was not friends with Kurama, so his chakra was like poison for her, just as it was poison for Naruto, until he befriended Kurama. There are multiple other arguments which i have listed already.

The Gedo arm would have been a good idea indeed.

 

[UnrealSoul]

Not 100% but 50% of Kurama was extracted. Only the yang part.
That is why different rules could apply to Naruto.

If you want to bother replying or not while watching dbz, after dbz or not at all is your own choice.
I just had to correct this part.

So basically your saying that even though, and let me put it like this...

Naurto- with 50% Yang chakra that was basically the 100% Kuruma/biju chakra in his body enough to allow him to become a perfect jinchuriki + bijuu mode. In which the manga clarified that he can die from bijuu extraction regardless of only having the yang half. The only way to basically revive naruto is too seal the ying portion back into naruto.

Answer this question, if naruto had the yang extracted from him by madara and no one was their to seal the other half would naruto have died?

 

[Meowazziel]

So basically your saying that even though, and let me put it like this...

Naurto- with 50% Yang chakra that was basically the 100% Kuruma/biju chakra in his body enough to allow him to become a perfect jinchuriki + bijuu mode. In which the manga clarified that he can die from bijuu extraction regardless of only having the yang half. The only way to basically revive naruto is too seal the ying portion back into naruto.

Answer this question, if naruto had the yang extracted from him by madara and no one was their to seal the other half would naruto have died?

I am saying that he is different from the other jincs, in that he didnt lose a yin-yang bijou, but he lost a yang bijou.
Basically, one could rephrase the rule of
''If you lose a bijou and you are not Uzumaki you die. If you lose a bijou and you are Uzumaki, than you die after a while''.
Bijou could be rephrased into ''a bijou consisting of yin and yang''.

Naruto didnt lose a yin+yang bijou. He only lost a yang bijou.
Basically this could allow the opposit force (in this case yin Kurama) to revert the effects of yang Kurama.

A jinc that loses a yin-yang bijou, cant reseal the opposit force back in. So the plan to safe Naruto, wont work for a jinc who lost a bijou with yin+yang.
Than there are all the other arguments like the poison and befriended ones, which I wont repeat.

I dont know if Naruto would have died if noone extracted something like the yin Kurama into his body.
The manga only told about one way to save him (yin Kurama), so he probably would have died without the yin Kurama.

 

[UnrealSoul]

I am saying that he is different from the other jincs, in that he didnt lose a yin-yang bijou, but he lost a yang bijou.
Basically, one could rephrase the rule of
''If you lose a bijou and you are not Uzumaki you die. If you lose a bijou and you are Uzumaki, than you die after a while''.
Bijou could be rephrased into ''a bijou consisting of yin and yang''.

Naruto didnt lose a yin+yang bijou. He only lost a yang bijou.
Basically this could allow the opposit force (in this case yin Kurama) to revert the effects of yang Kurama.

A jinc that loses a yin-yang bijou, cant reseal the opposit force back in. So the plan to safe Naruto, wont work for a jinc who lost a bijou with yin+yang.
Than there are all the other arguments like the poison and befriended ones, which I wont repeat.

I dont know if Naruto would have died if noone extracted something like the yin Kurama into his body.
The manga only told about one way to save him (yin Kurama), so he probably would have died without the yin Kurama.

I agree with what your saying and does make sense.

To also answer my own question, Yes naruto died. If you have read carefully sakura said his heart stopped and she is the one keeping him alive.So yes even if one of the ying or yang chakras are extracted the host dies uzumaki or not. The thing is naruto has people "Keeping him alive" while their moving to seal the ying chakra to "revive" him.

Your heart completely stopping can't describe death much more then that. Life support by sakura is whats gonna keep him alive.

 

[Meowazziel]

I agree with what your saying and does make sense.

To also answer my own question, Yes naruto died. If you have read carefully sakura said his heart stopped and she is the one keeping him alive.So yes even if one of the ying or yang chakras are extracted the host dies uzumaki or not. The thing is naruto has people "Keeping him alive" while their moving to seal the ying chakra to "revive" him.

Your heart completely stopping can't describe death much more then that. Life support by sakura is whats gonna keep him alive.

I answered your question as well didnt I? Its the last paragraph of the post.

Yes he has people keeping him alive while they are moving to Minato to seal the yin chakra in him. I agree on that. Naruto can only survive a bijou extraction from yang Kurama, if he has people who help him get to Minato with Yin Kurama and people who seal it inside him, before he dies (or they need to prolong his life even further than an Uzumaki lives after an extraction, if that period of time is to short to get the yin sealed inside).

Thanks that you find my post making sense.

 

[valandil988]

Medical jutsus are based on yin right? So I guess there is a way it can work. Kushina was not friends with Kurama, so his chakra was like poison for her, just as it was poison for Naruto, until he befriended Kurama. There are multiple other arguments which i have listed already.

The Gedo arm would have been a good idea indeed.

No they are not ONLY based on Yin, Genjutsu I believe are probably the most Yin heavy jutsu modern ninja use. Medical Ninjutsu is Yin heavy because of how structured and controlled the Yang energy needs to be in order to heal the patient, pumping yang chakra into someone could just as easily hurt them as heal them, its all dependent on how well controlled the energy is (ergo Sakura's chakra control)...Ergo the user must have the necessary Yin chakra to do the precision work.

Yin Kurama while he must have a yang piece inside him in order to exist is likely incapable of high speed healing like Yang Kurama is. Kurama's massive reserves of Yang chakra is what allows Naruto to regenerate in many of the previous examples of him being wounded.

So to be honest I'm not seeing how Yin Kurama can heal him fast enough to save him. Especially with Naruto's own reserves of chakra being nigh on non existent at the moment. (Not being able to beat his heart) So if Naruto does survive don't expect him to be up and about anytime quickly.

 

[VolatileSoul]

It really doesn't make sense to me, and until Kishi explains it, I can't accept this as an explanation. When the Bijuu is extracted, you die. Uzumaki don't die right away, but they still die. Kushina made it explicitly clear that she was going to die whether it was resealed or not. I really don't like established rules being changed for convenience. What's more, Yang Kurama is the one with the regenerative power and immense life force, not Yin. So much emphasis was put on Yang Kurama having that because of Yang chakra. Yin having it too would make no sense. How would Yin Kurama heal Naruto without it? I appreciate you trying to explain it though, and you put up a sound argument. It's also possible Kushina didn't know resealing Kurama would save her. After all, not like there was a way to test that.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

I think the fanboys and others should make peace with Naruto's case because there is one thing that a writer will never do. A good writer who is writing for intelligent readers will never give a recipe of how he is going to achieve a plan. If he does, it would destroy the entire excitement for all intelligent readers.

This being said, I have nothing against those who badly want Naruto to get Yin Kurama, those who don't want Naruto to be beyond regular rules, etc. There is one thing I was certain about before chapter 663 was release - that is Naruto will defy the rules about biju extraction and prove his true bloodline. After chapter 663 was released, I gain more confidence in my theory. The fact that Kishi told us what Kurama said is an evidence that Naruto will not be revived by Yin Kurama, simply because like every writer, Kishi did his homework before writing his story.

Just wait and see Naruto calling Sakura when everything will look like he is dead.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

No they are not ONLY based on Yin, Genjutsu I believe are probably the most Yin heavy jutsu modern ninja use. Medical Ninjutsu is Yin heavy because of how structured and controlled the Yang energy needs to be in order to heal the patient, pumping yang chakra into someone could just as easily hurt them as heal them, its all dependent on how well controlled the energy is (ergo Sakura's chakra control)...Ergo the user must have the necessary Yin chakra to do the precision work.

Yin Kurama while he must have a yang piece inside him in order to exist is likely incapable of high speed healing like Yang Kurama is. Kurama's massive reserves of Yang chakra is what allows Naruto to regenerate in many of the previous examples of him being wounded.

So to be honest I'm not seeing how Yin Kurama can heal him fast enough to save him. Especially with Naruto's own reserves of chakra being nigh on non existent at the moment. (Not being able to beat his heart) So if Naruto does survive don't expect him to be up and about anytime quickly.

With all this text, you are talking about things that do not exist. I don't know where you found it, but Naruto is not injured. Rather, he needs raw energy to come into his cells, and blood to flow. This is beyond chakra or food. The only way Naruto would survive is for his body to be immortal. It may sound crazy, but there is a set of people that can achieve this feat - those who are beyond life and death. If Naruto can bring chikamaru unconsciously back to life, then he can bring himself unconsciously back to life. This is what I am waiting to see. Still sound crazy, but I am sure I will remind all of you that I am right in a few chapters.

 

[valandil988]

With all this text, you are talking about things that do not exist. I don't know where you found it, but Naruto is not injured. Rather, he needs raw energy to come into his cells, and blood to flow. This is beyond chakra or food. The only way Naruto would survive is for his body to be immortal. It may sound crazy, but there is a set of people that can achieve this feat - those who are beyond life and death. If Naruto can bring chikamaru unconsciously back to life, then he can bring himself unconsciously back to life. This is what I am waiting to see. Still sound crazy, but I am sure I will remind all of you that I am right in a few chapters.

Don't double post and please read the definition of chakra.

Spiritual energy, is basically the form that chakra takes, the controlling force. Hence genjutsu is mostly mental work, IE mentally imagining a world as close as possible to the original so that it doesnt alert the victim.

Medical ninjutsu requires control (or as you going to say that was fictitious as well?), control over medical ninjutsu also requires "knowledge" which feeds into Yin chakra. You cannot preform medical ninjutsu without any knowledge on the subject. Hence in my opinion it is heavy Yin.

And what is Raw energy??? What are you defining that as? Chakra? Chemical??? Your just saying a whole load stuff that's just completely opinionated without an ounce of backing from the manga.

Yin Kurama is not the yang power house Yang kurama is. His existence must have less presence than Yang Kurama does, Physical energy is the stuff that effects the world. Yin however is the form that effect takes. IE its mostly imagination. However Yin kurama must have some yang in him but no where near enough to fuel Naruto's recovery at the necessary rate to save him.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

Don't double post and please read the definition of chakra.

Spiritual energy, is basically the form that chakra takes, the controlling force. Hence genjutsu is mostly mental work, IE mentally imagining a world as close as possible to the original so that it doesnt alert the victim.

Medical ninjutsu requires control (or as you going to say that was fictitious as well?), control over medical ninjutsu also requires "knowledge" which feeds into Yin chakra. You cannot preform medical ninjutsu without any knowledge on the subject. Hence in my opinion it is heavy Yin.

And what is Raw energy??? What are you defining that as? Chakra? Chemical??? Your just saying a whole load stuff that's just completely opinionated without an ounce of backing from the manga.

Yin Kurama is not the yang power house Yang kurama is. His existence must have less presence than Yang Kurama does, Physical energy is the stuff that effects the world. Yin however is the form that effect takes. IE its mostly imagination. However Yin kurama must have some yang in him but no where near enough to fuel Naruto's recovery at the necessary rate to save him.

You are utterly wrong like most people here. Stamina = Physical energy+Spiritual Energy. When both Physical Energy and Spiritual energy are molded (combined in a narutoverse unknown fashion), they turn into chakra. The definitions were given and are:

1. Physical energy = Energy store in the cell of the body. They are replenish by resting and eating food. For example check when Tsunade woke up from her coma. She ate a lot of food until here energy was replenish giving her youth and her diamond seal.

2. Spiritual energy = basically knowledge acquire through training and battlefield experience.

Put together, they make sense since a ninjutsu is a combination of the enrgy of a human along with the method to create the technique. I am not giving image because I am tired of doing so on this utterly dumb forum. Check the Zabuza arc where Sakura explained chakra mechanism to Naruto.

Basically your theory is based on wrong data, wrong logic, wrong definition, and is therefore wrong. Chakra does not give life force to someone. Rather, chakra is created from elements of life force. The assumption is that Naruto's body has life force that can be activated by Kyuubi chakra, but it is not true. No yin Kyuubi is going to save Naruto.

 

[valandil988]

You are utterly wrong like most people here. Stamina = Physical energy+Spiritual Energy. When both Physical Energy and Spiritual energy are molded (combined in a narutoverse unknown fashion), they turn into chakra. The definitions were given and are:

1. Physical energy = Energy store in the cell of the body. They are replenish by resting and eating food. For example check when Tsunade woke up from her coma. She ate a lot of food until here energy was replenish giving her youth and her diamond seal.

2. Spiritual energy = basically knowledge acquire through training and battlefield experience.

Put together, they make sense since a ninjutsu is a combination of the enrgy of a human along with the method to create the technique. I am not giving image because I am tired of doing so on this utterly dumb forum. Check the Zabuza arc where Sakura explained chakra mechanism to Naruto.

Basically your theory is based on wrong data, wrong logic, wrong definition, and is therefore wrong. Chakra does not give life force to someone. Rather, chakra is created from elements of life force. The assumption is that Naruto's body has life force that can be activated by Kyuubi chakra, but it is not true. No yin Kyuubi is going to save Naruto.

Yeah and what the heck does "knowledge" sound like? Spiritual energy is the mental process by which one can mold and create a jutsu. If not that then what is "battle field experience"? Its the knowledge on how to create and use jutsu, IE its necessary part of any jutsu.

The energy that is used to create effects on the world is not "spiritual energy" That is imagination, form etc. Physical energy makes the changes, but physical energy on its own is just that, energy its not controlled. Chakra is a combination of CONTROLLED energy.

For example, Genjutsu is mostly Yin because its all about fooling the senses of a victim and supplanting your imagined reality with theirs. The actual "changes" made to a victims mind are so small that the genjutsu is mostly just Yin with a small portion of Yang.

Stating that Yin energy is "knowledge gained by training and battlefield experience" is just parroting Kishi, explain it in your own words what it actually is. Does it effect the world? Yes no maybe? If not then its not "real" its a form an idea, imagination etc.


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"Basically your theory is based on wrong data, wrong logic, wrong definition, and is therefore wrong. Chakra does not give life force to someone. Rather, chakra is created from elements of life force. The assumption is that Naruto's body has life force that can be activated by Kyuubi chakra, but it is not true. No yin Kyuubi is going to save Naruto."

Wrong yet you agree with me? Did you even read my post? I to said Yin Kurama couldn't do shit. But I don't believe Naruto is going to "come back to life" on his own. If he can't beat his own heart atm that is not going to happen. The gedo arm will be used.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

Don't double post and please read the definition of chakra.

Spiritual energy, is basically the form that chakra takes, the controlling force. Hence genjutsu is mostly mental work, IE mentally imagining a world as close as possible to the original so that it doesnt alert the victim.

Medical ninjutsu requires control (or as you going to say that was fictitious as well?), control over medical ninjutsu also requires "knowledge" which feeds into Yin chakra. You cannot preform medical ninjutsu without any knowledge on the subject. Hence in my opinion it is heavy Yin.

And what is Raw energy??? What are you defining that as? Chakra? Chemical??? Your just saying a whole load stuff that's just completely opinionated without an ounce of backing from the manga.

Yin Kurama is not the yang power house Yang kurama is. His existence must have less presence than Yang Kurama does, Physical energy is the stuff that effects the world. Yin however is the form that effect takes. IE its mostly imagination. However Yin kurama must have some yang in him but no where near enough to fuel Naruto's recovery at the necessary rate to save him.

Yeah and what the heck does "knowledge" sound like? Spiritual energy is the mental process by which one can mold and create a jutsu. If not that then what is "battle field experience"? Its the knowledge on how to create and use jutsu, IE its necessary part of any jutsu.

The energy that is used to create effects on the world is not "spiritual energy" That is imagination, form etc. Physical energy makes the changes, but physical energy on its own is just that, energy its not controlled. Chakra is a combination of CONTROLLED energy.

For example, Genjutsu is mostly Yin because its all about fooling the senses of a victim and supplanting your imagined reality with theirs. The actual "changes" made to a victims mind are so small that the genjutsu is mostly just Yin with a small portion of Yang.

Stating that Yin energy is "knowledge gained by training and battlefield experience" is just parroting Kishi, explain it in your own words what it actually is. Does it effect the world? Yes no maybe? If not then its not "real" its a form an idea, imagination etc.


----------------------------

"Basically your theory is based on wrong data, wrong logic, wrong definition, and is therefore wrong. Chakra does not give life force to someone. Rather, chakra is created from elements of life force. The assumption is that Naruto's body has life force that can be activated by Kyuubi chakra, but it is not true. No yin Kyuubi is going to save Naruto."

Wrong yet you agree with me? Did you even read my post? I to said Yin Kurama couldn't do shit. But I don't believe Naruto is going to "come back to life" on his own. If he can't beat his own heart atm that is not going to happen. The gedo arm will be used.

These are your two posts. Try to read the two of them, and stop twisting things. Imagination is a form of knowledge. It uses knowledge to form a story, an object, etc. Basically, imagination was coined along with Yin, and it was also said it is the basis for spiritual energy. So you are fooling yourself because imagination is included in knowledge.

The bolded sentence in your fisrt post is BS, and you can see it contradict the bolded sentence in your second post. The things you wrote in the second post is your refusal to accept the definition of chakra given by Kishi. Again, your theory is good for those who have forgotten everything Kishi said in part 1. Besides, you forgot that Ninjutsus = chakra + Handseal. Don't start to think everything is Genjutsus.

PS: I am not a cheerleader.

 

[valandil988]

These are your two posts. Try to read the two of them, and stop twisting things. Imagination is a form of knowledge. It uses knowledge to form a story, an object, etc. Basically, imagination was coined along with Yin, and it was also said it is the basis for spiritual energy. So you are fooling yourself because imagination is included in knowledge.

The bolded sentence in your fisrt post is BS, and you can see it contradict the bolded sentence in your second post. The things you wrote in the second post is your refusal to accept the definition of chakra given by Kishi. Again, your theory is good for those who have forgotten everything Kishi said in part 1. Besides, you forgot that Ninjutsus = chakra + Handseal. Don't start to think everything is Genjutsus.

PS: I am not a cheerleader.

Obviously they are not contradictory they are just saying the same damn thing in different ways. A controlling force is in essence an imagined end point, its called intent. IE what you want to happen in your jutsu and the knowledge of how to achieve that. Does that sound like control to you? Of course it is.

And now we are going into handseals? LAWL Naruto/Sasuke is a prime example of calling that a whole bunch of bullshit. Handseals are AIDS for people that don't have the skill to use the jutsu without handseals. Naruto uses Rasengan but it took him AGES to learn compared to just looking up a jutsu and learning the hand seals and what the end product is supposed to be. Sasuke could produce fire with the Grand Fireball straight off because it was a formal jutsu, and that's without any fire element training. Sasuke can use Chidori now with pure concentration, that's your hand seals being unnecessary right there.

Do you see naruto doing a string of hand seals for the Rasenshuriken? Well obviously Ninjutsus = chakra + Handseal has exceptions and is not an immutable rule as your like to put it.

Honestly I'm amazed that all these super powered ninja out there like Hashirama and Madara still use hand seals lol. If they were that good most of their jutsu should be sealess. Madara for example is nearly doing that using high level fire techniques with only single seals. IE the better you get the more familiar you are with your jutsu the need for these Aids in the form of Hand seals fades away completely.