[Discussion] Rank these characters

[OG sama]

Actually, it's not like Oda hasn't gone that route before. Neptune and the Fishmen had more history with Hody. Brownbeard had more history with Caesar. Nami had more history with Arlong. Vivi had more history with Crocodile. Yet, Luffy defeated them without any of those people assisting to the fight. Law assisting is far more significant than simply his history with Mingo, though his history with Mingo adds to why Law assisting is good writing.

Law is a SN rival. It simply wouldn't make any since for him not to assist in some way, those guys just dont have his kind of status. They act more like damsels in need of a hero.

 

[Punk Hazard]

His awakening is his 100%. The only thing that's not 100% is his health which hasn't shown to affect his abilities much.

It's a guarantee that it's affecting his abilities. Doflamingo's fighting style revolves around combining his strings with bodily movements, and his body is literally tatters held together by strings. Every slice, every wave of his arms, every kick, every moment is gonna take its toll on his body, hindering what it could do. Doflamingo has two options: Exerting his body as much as he can to get as close as he can to his 100% performance, which will strain his body even more, or limit how much he exerts himself to limit strain, but reduce how close he can get to his 100% performance as a result. Either way, it's not gonna be 100%.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Law is a SN rival. It simply wouldn't make any since for him not to assist in some way, those guys just dont have his kind of status. They act more like damsels in need of a hero.

Which is why it has greater significance than merely having history.

 

[OG sama]

It's a guarantee that it's affecting his abilities. Doflamingo's fighting style revolves around combining his strings with bodily movements, and his body is literally tatters held together by strings. Every slice, every wave of his arms, every kick, every moment is gonna take its toll on his body, hindering what it could do. Doflamingo has two options: Exerting his body as much as he can to get as close as he can to his 100% performance, which will strain his body even more, or limit how much he exerts himself to limit strain, but reduce how close he can get to his 100% performance as a result. Either way, it's not gonna be 100%.

Depends on what he does exactly. DDs string moves aren't too much of a hindrance, he moves mostly his hands and fingers with his string moves. But still I see your point, although he clearly didn't hold back hat athlete thread. He's still hindered in some ways, but like you said the extent is gonna be pretty unknown. Especially against a foe who simply isn't affected at all.

 

[OG sama]

Which is why it has greater significance than merely having history.

Which is exactly why luffy wasn't going to solo from the start. Regardless of him having the power, this was Laws vengeance and enemy.

Its not just the history but all these things:
1. Law has known and not really like DD since he was a child.
2. Been plotting for years to kill him.
3. Wanted vengeance for Cora san.
4. Is a SN rival to Luffy meaning he shouldn't be too far behind Luffy in power.

Conclusion: with all these things mentioned there is no way in hell for Law to just sit back and do nothing like the people you mentioned especially knowing he's very close to Luffy in power.

 

[TheHokage]

This seems to be your own interpretation of how you feel Oda decided to go with this fight. In my opinion, Luffy could have likely beat DD on his own if he went G4 from the start. But then what the hell would Law do? He is the one who has history with Mingo, he should at least hurt him in someway for what he did to Corazon. Oda needed Law to get vengeance, but he didn't want him outshowing the MC either by having him solo. He even made sure the readers knew they were both injured before the fight started.

And its also very important to note what state Luffy was in when he was hurt, he didn't want to fight and his toughest form is in G4. So he wasn't even using anything close to his full power when he got hurt.

Works both ways it seems to be your interpretation that Luffy could beat Doflamingo if he was at 100% however the way the fight has been portrayed leans more to the way me and many others are interpreting the fight.

It makes far more sense that the reason Oda had Law involved in the fight is so he could significantly wound Doflamingo it kind of makes your point of Law having history with Doflamingo mute if Law doesn't at least inflict some serious damage that contributes to Doflamingo's defeat.

 

[OG sama]

Works both ways it seems to be your interpretation that Luffy could beat Doflamingo if he was at 100% however the way the fight has been portrayed leans more to the way me and many others are interpreting the fight.

It makes far more sense that the reason Oda had Law involved in the fight is so he could significantly wound Doflamingo it kind of makes your point of Law having history with Doflamingo mute if Law doesn't at least inflict some serious damage that contributes to Doflamingo's defeat.

Except gamma knife did inflict serious damage and is the main reason why Doflamingo will be defeated much quicker. I dont really know how this was suppose to prove me wrong. Because Law is basically getting vengeance by handicapping him and all it takes is one good hit to the gut and Doflamingos strings on his chest will break and his organs won't be held up causing him to die. Aren't you one of the people who thinks DD is at like 40-50 anyway? So how would that make my point mute?

 

[saw2097]

In order to contribute to OG sama's argument, even after Gamma Knife, just before he took out Trebol, Law said that he wouldn't be able to look his crew in the eye if he let Straw Hat take both of them down on his own.

And Law earlier mouthed off to Doflamingo that he doesn't have a chance as the Straw Hats leave miracles behind them.

Basically even Law is noting that Luffy can beat Doflamingo on his own, but Law doesn't intend to just lie around either and let Luffy get all the credit.

And his line about Luffy beating them on his own came after Gamma Knife meaning that if Luffy can beat Doflamingo in his current state than he can beat him if he wasn't hit by Gamma Knife.

Gamma Knife weakened his health not his strength.

 

[Punk Hazard]

In order to contribute to OG sama's argument, even after Gamma Knife, just before he took out Trebol, Law said that he wouldn't be able to look his crew in the eye if he let Straw Hat take both of them down on his own.

And Law earlier mouthed off to Doflamingo that he doesn't have a chance as the Straw Hats leave miracles behind them.

Basically even Law is noting that Luffy can beat Doflamingo on his own, but Law doesn't intend to just lie around either and let Luffy get all the credit.

And his line about Luffy beating them on his own came after Gamma Knife meaning that if Luffy can beat Doflamingo in his current state than he can beat him if he wasn't hit by Gamma Knife.

Gamma Knife weakened his health not his strength.

Or, Law knew that Luffy could beat Doffy now because of Gamma Knife weakening him. Law was also goading Doflamingo with all of that. Law's plan was for Gamma Knife to kill Doffy, when he was saying "The Strawhats will defeat you, they make miracles" yadda yadda, Law was doing just that: Yadda-yaddaing so he could rile up Doffy and set him up for Gamma Knife. Law's plan was for Doffy to shoot at him, switch with a decoy, and sneak him with Gamma Knife, he had no idea Doffy was gonna be able to keep fighting after GK, so all of that was just fluff.

Law never noted Luffy could beat Doffy on his own from 100%.

Your health being weakened, especially through physical damage to your body, is gonna diminish your strength and fighting ability. Doffy himself, Whitebeard and Lucci are all prime examples of that.

 

[OG sama]

Its probably just better to wait for the end like Terry bogard said, but knowing you guys even if I was right and lion bazooka did in fact defeat Doflamingo you guys would still claim at 100% Mingo still stronger. Despite his best doing nothing to Luffy. Knowing you guys you would say he wouldn't even be on par.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Its probably just better to wait for the end like Terry bogard said, but knowing you guys even if I was right and lion bazooka did in fact defeat Doflamingo you guys would still claim at 100% Mingo still stronger. Despite his best doing nothing to Luffy. Knowing you guys you would say he wouldn't even be on par.

That's just as legitimate as saying 100% Mingo is stronger than Luffy. The fact of the matter is, we have never seen Doflamingo fight at 100% all-out. We don't know if G4 is enough for him at 100%. No, we have not seen Doffy's death. The man was reduced to almost 0, you can't possibly expect him to fight at the best as he possibly could in this condition.

 

[OG sama]

That's just as legitimate as saying 100% Mingo is stronger than Luffy. The fact of the matter is, we have never seen Doflamingo fight at 100% all-out. We don't know if G4 is enough for him at 100%. No, we have not seen Doffy's death. The man was reduced to almost 0, you can't possibly expect him to fight at the best as he possibly could in this condition.

So even if G4 Luffy completed dominated with no injuries you wouldn't even consider the possibility of him being on par with 100% Mingo just because you THINK Mingo would do better?

 

[Punk Hazard]

So even if G4 Luffy completed dominated with no injuries you wouldn't even consider the possibility of him being on par with 100% Mingo just because you THINK Mingo would do better?

No, I would not say that someone close to 100% stomping someone close to 0% is stronger than that person at 100% just because of that scenario. It makes absolutely no sense to. Unless Luffy defeats/competes with Doflamingo at his 100% and wins, or until he does so to a character that we know Doffy cannot do so to, or unless Doflamingo admits that Luffy is superior to him, I will not say Luffy can defeat Doflamingo at his 100%.

It does not make sense to me that someone who is just breathing hard as a result of his injuries defeating someone who would have inevitably died if not for a tactic that doesn't even undo the damage means they are definitely stronger than them. There's a reason Luffy himself pointed out the damage Gamma Knife did to him.

 

[OG sama]

No, I would not say that someone close to 100% stomping someone close to 0% is stronger than that person at 100% just because of that scenario. It makes absolutely no sense to. Unless Luffy defeats/competes with Doflamingo at his 100% and wins, or until he does so to a character that we know Doffy cannot do so to, or unless Doflamingo admits that Luffy is superior to him, I will not say Luffy can defeat Doflamingo at his 100%.

It does not make sense to me that someone who is just breathing hard as a result of his injuries defeating someone who would have inevitably died if not for a tactic that doesn't even undo the damage means they are definitely stronger than them. There's a reason Luffy himself pointed out the damage Gamma Knife did to him.

Where did you get defeat 100% Mingo from? I said on PAR of course he may win but it could be as easily said he can't which is why I used on par. And why are you being so damn selective? Doffy pointed out Luffys injuries as well, even saying he was halfway to death. Viz says something a little different but still mentions them both pointing out each others injuries. You keep acting as if it was never stated.

EDIT: Whoops you used compete. Ignore everything except the injuries part.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Where did you get defeat 100% Mingo from? I said on PAR of course he may win but it could be as easily said he can't which is why I used on par. And why are you being so damn selective? Doffy pointed out Luffys injuries as well, even saying he was halfway to death. Viz says something a little different but still mentions them both pointing out each others injuries. You keep acting as if it was never stated.

EDIT: Whoops you used compete. Ignore everything except the injuries part.

1. Doflamingo never said Luffy was halfway to death. He said he took heavy damage. The thing about Doflamingo's statement is, he does not differentiate between damage he dealt himself, and damage that was dealt by Luffy's scuffle with Bellamy. For all we know, the reason Luffy's total damage he's taken so far is heavy is because of the portion of it that came from Doflamingo himself, and not external factors. On the other hand, Luffy specifically mentions that the damage that is hindering Doffy and making him weaker was from Law's attack, i.e., Gamma Knife. Not from his own blows like the Red Hawk from before, but Gamma Knife. Gamma Knife almost reduced Doflamingo to death, which is 0%. Death is 0% always because death literally means no health left.

2. Even if Doffy did say Luffy was "halfway there", it's not literal. It's an expression, just being scared half to death, or worked half to death.

 

[OG sama]

1. Doflamingo never said Luffy was halfway to death. He said he took heavy damage. The thing about Doflamingo's statement is, he does not differentiate between damage he dealt himself, and damage that was dealt by Luffy's scuffle with Bellamy. For all we know, the reason Luffy's total damage he's taken so far is heavy is because of the portion of it that came from Doflamingo himself, and not external factors. On the other hand, Luffy specifically mentions that the damage that is hindering Doffy and making him weaker was from Law's attack, i.e., Gamma Knife. Not from his own blows like the Red Hawk from before, but Gamma Knife. Gamma Knife almost reduced Doflamingo to death, which is 0%. Death is 0% always because death literally means no health left.

2. Even if Doffy did say Luffy was "halfway there", it's not literal. It's an expression, just being scared half to death, or worked half to death.

Fair enough I suppose, I guess I'm probably just going to stop arguing and wait until the fight ends. And see how every one feels because us arguing back and forth forever isn't going to give us fact. In the end only Oda knows whos stronger and even if majority thinks Luffy still loses because reasons, it doesn't really matter. He will undoubtedly officially be stronger than him by the next arc for sure.

But good debating with you as always, you can feel free to call me out if you disagree with the last sentence as well as I am quiet bored.