[Discussion] Rank the Yonko, Shichibukai and Admirals

[24 12 11 to troll]

Yawn. The last time Mihawk fought with Shanks was at least 12 years ago! Shanks probably wasn't even Yonko then. Gekko Moria was said to have once fought equaliy with Kaido, now tell me he is Yonko level aswell.

Gekko Moriah got destroyed! He and his entire crew was wiped out by Kaidou himself. We don't know when the duel was but it wasn't long before Luffy set sail.

What does Luffy defeating Dofla have to do with him being above Mihawk? It is clear that Dofla is far beyond Luffy atm, seeing what he did to Law. If Luffy wins now, it will be due to plot. Judging who is stronger by the order they are defeated is simply stupid. You reasoning is so weak lmao.

If Doflamingo is the strongest Warlord then Luffy and Zoro would already be above Mihawk. Since he's supposed to be Zoro's goal shouldn't it be logical for him to be one of his last two opponents? (this means that there will be several hundred chapters before Zoro fights Mihawk for real. Proving that a lot of growth is required to reach Mihawks level) Doflamingo is above Luffy. He neg diffs Law and Sanji whom are almost as strong as Luffy. So Doflamingo is definitely stronger than Luffy anyways. Hence why my theory about Viola shooting Doflamingo is probably going to come true (basically the person she's based on shot Benito Mussolini (Italian Doflamingo)).

Like I said before he will probably move down once I see his weaknesses. His DF is still quite sketchy to me.

:|

 

[Hijey]

All you have done is bring up hype which has no relevance to Kuma...I have assessed what they have both shown and came with a conclusion. Was there anything I said that was wrong? From what we have seen Kuma takes this. I dont know why people fall into hype so much in OP. That whole A>B>C logic your trying to use doesn't work. This aint DBZ. If you think Mihawk will win, explain to me how.

Shanks has much greater hype than Kuma but according to you he must be weaker than Kuma because of 'worse' feats. We know Rayleigh is weaker than Mihawk and he has greater feat than Kuma - he fought an Admiral to a stalemate and escaped him too which means Mihawk can be considered to have superior feat than Kuma in that sense. Is Kuma now suddenly as strong as the Admirals who are very close in strength? All Kuma has going for him is be bad match up for pretty much most OP characters cause of his OP devil fruit but you need more than hax devil fruit. Law too has similar hax fruit, but no hype and similar feats. Is it right then to say he's stronger than Mihawk? No, cause that's foolish. Sanji has better feats than Kid but we can deduce he's weaker than him given his hype.

 

[LeEvilTongue]

Okay list, although Kaido should be above Shanks/Blackbeard and slightly below WB (Based on Law's statement back in Punk Hazard)

 

[VongolaX]

Yonkou:

1. Whitebeard
2. Shanks
3. Kaido
4. Big mam

Blackbeard would go under shanks


Warlords:

1. Mihawk <---factual no denying facts
2. Kuma
3. Doflamingo/Crocodile
4. Jinbei
5. Boa Hancock <---never really saw here as a threat, could be wrong though
6. Moria


Admiral:
1. Red dog
2. Yellow monkey
3. Blue pheasant
4. Isshou (could be higher than Kuzan)

 

[VongolaX]

Okay list, although Kaido should be above Shanks/Blackbeard and slightly below WB (Based on Law's statement back in Punk Hazard)

Every yonkou has a title:

Whitebeard is said to be the strongest man (physically he is the strongest)
(Paramecia's are known for that)

Kaido is said to be the strongest beast (he's not an ordinary human and is the strongest zoan).
(Nami pointed that out).

Big mom and Shanks are yet to be labelled of what there territorial strenth lies...

Shanks could be the strongest spirit, and big mom could be the strongest fat@ss.

Who knows, but yonkou's must have that status

Blackbeard has the strongest logia Zoro just overall devil fruit

 

[Fireplay]

I think we can all agree that Lord Ginger is #1. Excluding WB since he can't put up a fight at the moment


Btw. I feel like Kaido will be a huge dissapointment.

 

[iSpeak]

Gekko Moriah got destroyed! He and his entire crew was wiped out by Kaidou himself. We don't know when the duel was but it wasn't long before Luffy set sail.


If Doflamingo is the strongest Warlord then Luffy and Zoro would already be above Mihawk. Since he's supposed to be Zoro's goal shouldn't it be logical for him to be one of his last two opponents? (this means that there will be several hundred chapters before Zoro fights Mihawk for real. Proving that a lot of growth is required to reach Mihawks level) Doflamingo is above Luffy. He neg diffs Law and Sanji whom are almost as strong as Luffy. So Doflamingo is definitely stronger than Luffy anyways. Hence why my theory about Viola shooting Doflamingo is probably going to come true (basically the person she's based on shot Benito Mussolini (Italian Doflamingo)).


:|

Look, it was stated that he and Gekko and Kaido fought equally. So if you think Mihawk = Shanks because of their duals over 12 years ago, then you must also believe that Kaido = Moria.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

My point is, just because they fought in their younger days doesn't mean they are equal now.

Zoro's goal is to be the best swordsman… that has nothing to do with Dofla. If there were 1000 non swordsman stronger than Mihawk it wouldn't interfere with Zoro's goal. Why? because he aims to be the best swordsman. If Zoro wanted to be the strongest period, then he would have made that is goal. Anyway, you can't judge who would win based on when you believe they might be defeated in the story. Ill give it to Dofla for now.

Shanks has much greater hype than Kuma but according to you he must be weaker than Kuma because of 'worse' feats. We know Rayleigh is weaker than Mihawk and he has greater feat than Kuma - he fought an Admiral to a stalemate and escaped him too which means Mihawk can be considered to have superior feat than Kuma in that sense. Is Kuma now suddenly as strong as the Admirals who are very close in strength? All Kuma has going for him is be bad match up for pretty much most OP characters cause of his OP devil fruit but you need more than hax devil fruit. Law too has similar hax fruit, but no hype and similar feats. Is it right then to say he's stronger than Mihawk? No, cause that's foolish. Sanji has better feats than Kid but we can deduce he's weaker than him given his hype.

First sentence - When did I say that? I said people only go by hype. Obviously hype does play a factor, but Mihawks hype doesn't relate to Kuma anyway.
Like I said, you keep using A>B>C logic which does not always work. The are many factors to consider in a battle. Vista stalemated Mihawk, is he Yonko level aswell?

 

[Hijey]

Mihawk is not just the most overrated Warlord, he's one of the most overrated characters period.

Got any examples? If I for example think Big Mom > Shanks, Aokiji > Dragon, Fujitora > Kaido and you think the opposite of that, do I have the right to say the ones you're supporting are overrated? We know they are more or less on par given their hype and we won't know for sure who is stronger than who until later so no, I would be wrong if I did that. It's the same with Mihawk here. There are some souls here that would say Mihawk is stronger than the strongest man in the world WB which I disagree with given WB's title, but other people like yourself do the same with the other Emperors and some Admirals so I shouldn't be saying those guys are overrated because only a very small amount of people say those types of things

First sentence - When did I say that? I said people only go by hype. Obviously hype does play a factor, but Mihawks hype doesn't relate to Kuma anyway.
Like I said, you keep using A>B>C logic which does not always work. The are many factors to consider in a battle. Vista stalemated Mihawk, is he Yonko level aswell?

Like I told you earlier, the Moria/Kaido case is in no way shape or form the same as how Shanks/Mihawk compare now. Moria was too weak to be considered a Warlord and doesn't have as much hype as Kaido. Mihawk is stronger than a guy who has as much hype as Shanks that was portrayed to be as strong as an Admiral.

You never said it but I'm using the logic you're applying here. Mihawk's hype does not have to relate to Kuma to be stronger than him. We know Kuma's boss is in the same league as the Admirals, Emperor and Mihawk etc via his hype and even though we haven't seen him in action we can deduce he's stronger than Kuma. Oda has only has done that to few characters upon their introduction and Kuma nor Doflamingo have any hype close to that. So looking at what a weaker guy than Mihawk accomplished we can deduce he has the much better feats and hype than Kuma. We have a good idea how strong the normal Kuma was and that was somewhere around Ivankov(who was utterly destroyed by an Admiral) and the former was stronger in the past, which could have changed, but nothing implies it changed by a significant amount like with Moria/Kaido. Vista doesn't have the hype and we can tell for sure he was weaker than Mihawk.

A>B>C works most of the time but that's irrelevant here because this thread is about who is stronger and not who can beat who. Pre timeskip Zoro and Sanji were a lot stronger than Perona and we knew this became someone much weaker than them was stronger than her. They couldn't beat her at the time because they didn't have haki. For all I care, you could say Kuma beats an Emperor or Admiral except for someone that they can beat and apply that ABC logic. For instance, Zoro could in the future be stronger than Kid but the gap needs to be big enough for Zoro to pull out a win even though he's at an disadvantage. I think your confusing it with environmental advantages.

I also don't understand why you would want to put Doflamingo ahead as well. Sure, the guy has a hax devil fruit but so do Boa Hancock/Cecear and he's going down in this arc. We saw how he performed against two Admiral and it was very poor considering the Admirals were casual. He's portrayed to be someone far below the likes of an Admiral and given his hype, it's no surprise. Plot may have to do something with his defeat, but we know the gap between someone like an Admiral and Luffy is so huge that Oda would have him defeat people that strong now.

 

[xcoyote]

Mihype is above all.

 

[iSpeak]

Like I told you earlier, the Moria/Kaido case is in no way shape or form the same as how Shanks/Mihawk compare now. Mgooria was too weak to be considered a Warlord and doesn't have as much hype as Kaido. Mihawk is stronger than a guy who has as much hype as Shanks that was portrayed to be as strong as an Admiral.

You never said it but I'm using the logic you're applying here. Mihawk's hype does not have to relate to Kuma to be stronger than him. We know Kuma's boss is in the same league as the Admirals, Emperor and Mihawk etc via his hype and even though we haven't seen him in action we can deduce he's stronger than Kuma. Oda has only has done that to few characters upon their introduction and Kuma nor Doflamingo have any hype close to that. So looking at what a weaker guy than Mihawk accomplished we can deduce he has the much better feats and hype than Kuma. We have a good idea how strong the normal Kuma was and that was somewhere around Ivankov(who was utterly destroyed by an Admiral) and the former was stronger in the past, which could have changed, but nothing implies it changed by a significant amount like with Moria/Kaido. Vista doesn't have the hype and we can tell for sure he was weaker than Mihawk.

A>B>C works most of the time but that's irrelevant here because this thread is about who is stronger and not who can beat who. Pre timeskip Zoro and Sanji were a lot stronger than Perona and we knew this became someone much weaker than them was stronger than her. They couldn't beat her at the time because they didn't have haki. For all I care, you could say Kuma beats an Emperor or Admiral except for someone that they can beat and apply that ABC logic. For instance, Zoro could in the future be stronger than Kid but the gap needs to be big enough for Zoro to pull out a win even though he's at an disadvantage. I think your confusing it with environmental advantages.

I also don't understand why you would want to put Doflamingo ahead as well. Sure, the guy has a hax devil fruit but so do Boa Hancock/Cecear and he's going down in this arc. We saw how he performed against two Admiral and it was very poor considering the Admirals were casual. He's portrayed to be someone far below the likes of an Admiral and given his hype, it's no surprise. Plot may have to do something with his defeat, but we know the gap between someone like an Admiral and Luffy is so huge that Oda would have him defeat people that strong now.

Kaido and Moria situation is exactly like Shanks and Mihawks. They both fought many years ago (which we did not see) but have no idea how their strengths may have risen after. Explain to me how it is so different?

Explain to me this Mihawk hype that you keep talking about that places him so much above every other Warlord. The only real hype I have heard of him is 1. #1 swordsman and 2. battled shanks many times at least 12 years ago. Everything else I have heard of him related to them.

Kuma's boss as in Dragon? Where does it show dragons hype put him admiral/emperor level? You must be confusing manga hype with fan hype. We still don't know how powerful Dragon actually is. And I still don't know what this Mihawk hype you keep talking about is.

Explain to me how you can tell "for sure" that Vista is much weaker than Mihawk? They have never fought, the only time they fought ended in a stalemate. Using your calculations, they must be equal. You can't simply throw it out of the window when it applies to a character you don't want it to. When Shanks and Mihawk clash they are equal, but when Vista and Mihawk do they are not? This type of logic is why Mihawk is overrated.

What are you talking about Doflaming was poor against two admirals? Akoji he never fought but easily escaped his ice. He and Fujitora weren't even fighting seriously… Dofla threw a kick and Fujitora blocked it. End of fight. I put Dofla there not because of how powerful his DF is, but because he has mastered his DF so well and how he uses it. One of few people to posses kings haki. Expert hand to hand combat, good reactions and speed. I mean this guy toyed around with Crocodile and Jozu and Atmos within WB's war… that isn't normal. He hasn't shown no fear of any admiral so tell me what hype of his puts him below admiral? It seems more like you are making up hype for both characters. Can you read Oda's mind? How do you know how the fight will play out? How do you know it will be Luffy alone vs Dofla? How about their whole crew and law and Fujitora vs Dofla is how he is defeated? We don't know yet. No point trying to use an imaginary battle to gauge his strength.

 

[Hijey]

Kaido and Moria situation is exactly like Shanks and Mihawks. They both fought many years ago (which we did not see) but have no idea how their strengths may have risen after. Explain to me how it is so different?

Explain to me this Mihawk hype that you keep talking about that places him so much above every other Warlord. The only real hype I have heard of him is 1. #1 swordsman and 2. battled shanks many times at least 12 years ago. Everything else I have heard of him related to them.

Kuma's boss as in Dragon? Where does it show dragons hype put him admiral/emperor level? You must be confusing manga hype with fan hype. We still don't know how powerful Dragon actually is. And I still don't know what this Mihawk hype you keep talking about is.

Explain to me how you can tell "for sure" that Vista is much weaker than Mihawk? They have never fought, the only time they fought ended in a stalemate. Using your calculations, they must be equal. You can't simply throw it out of the window when it applies to a character you don't want it to. When Shanks and Mihawk clash they are equal, but when Vista and Mihawk do they are not? This type of logic is why Mihawk is overrated.

What are you talking about Doflaming was poor against two admirals? Akoji he never fought but easily escaped his ice. He and Fujitora weren't even fighting seriously… Dofla threw a kick and Fujitora blocked it. End of fight. I put Dofla there not because of how powerful his DF is, but because he has mastered his DF so well and how he uses it. One of few people to posses kings haki. Expert hand to hand combat, good reactions and speed. I mean this guy toyed around with Crocodile and Jozu and Atmos within WB's war… that isn't normal. He hasn't shown no fear of any admiral so tell me what hype of his puts him below admiral? It seems more like you are making up hype for both characters. Can you read Oda's mind? How do you know how the fight will play out? How do you know it will be Luffy alone vs Dofla? How about their whole crew and law and Fujitora vs Dofla is how he is defeated? We don't know yet. No point trying to use an imaginary battle to gauge his strength.

No, it's not. Is Shanks now on another level compared to the Admirals or what? We know for a fact Mihawk and Shanks are on the same level, regarldess of who is stronger, via his title and role in the story. He's stronger than Rayleigh who even in old age was mentioned in the same breath as Whitebeard and portrayed as strong as Kizaru. The manga made it clear the Emperors and the Admirals are more or less on par and there are people like Mihawk etc who has similar strength as that group. So with Mihawk and Shanks we have similar hype resulting in similar strength and Moria's hype is nowhere near Kaido's meaning he's fodder compared to Kaido.

Do any of the other Warlords have hype that puts them side by side with the Admirals and Emperors? That's exactly what it does with Mihawk. He is the only Warlord who Oda did not introduce the Warlord title upon his introduction/chapter title and who's bounty has not been shown. He was also the only Warlord paired together with the Admirals/WB to start the war in the chapter called the battle of the mightiest. Oda clearly put him on a pedestal higher than any other Warlord.

Yeah. He's the World's most wanted man. There were three other people who had 'World's something' in their title and all of them were on the level of the Admirals/Emperors. He's also a D who is trying to overthrow the most powerful organisation and the father of the future PK and the son of Garp and there's no doubt how extremely powerful the latter two are at their peak. So, Kuma who doesn't even have the hype nor the feats required to be Admiral/Emperor level is up there according to you(since you put him above Mihawk who you think is on that level, unless I misunderstood you) and his boss is not? Why is that?

Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world and Vista is a swordsman. Unlike Rayleigh, he doesn't have hype that puts him on Admiral/Emperor level.

He was warned by Aokiji not to touch Smoker and because he ignored it, he was casually frozen by Aokiji. He didn't escape 'easily.' He was heavily panting from just one casual Admiral attack - not a good sign by someone you claim is on Admiral/Emperor level. Fujitora was merely testing his power which made both Doflamingo and Law(are you going to argue Law is Admiral level too?) extremely worried judging by their reaction which again is not a good sign. Even Kinemon survived a kick by Doflamingo so that won't even faze an Admiral. Having King's haki = / = Admiral/Emperor level. Chinjao and Luffy posses King's haki and like Doflamingo, they don't have the hype to be placed up there. And fyi, he never toyed with Jozu like Atmos. Even though he caught him off guard, all he managed to do was immobilize Jozu. An exhausted Law was able to push Doflamingo, fight him for some time and even damage him. He was also got injured during the war... That's not how it works because by that logic, you could argue the same for Boa Hancock and a lot of other people. What hype does he have that puts him on Admiral/Emperor level? He doesn't have the hype and therefore he's below them, simple. Luffy has said numerous times he was going to kick Doflamingo's ass and this is Doflamingo's arc. Why should I not assume it won't be Luffy alone when Luffy has yet to show his full potential 3 arcs in after the TS and Doflamingo being the perfect opponent to demonstrate it on? Lucci and Crocodile seemed unbeatable at first but that didn't stop them from being defeated by Luffy.

Kuma's best feat was to destroy an exhausted Mugiwara crew and no hype that suggests he's on similar level as the Admirals/Emperors. Law has superior feat than him because he defeated two Vice Admirals within the same arc and like Kuma, no hype that suggests he's on Admiral/Emperor level. Both of them have extremely hax devil fruits but one has much better feat. How come he is lower than Kuma on your list?

 

[shri3kbat]

I'm still pretty new on One Piece so please forgive me if my list seems off

Yonko

1.Whitebeard
2.Shanks/Bleackbeard
3.Blackbeard/Shanks
4.Big Mom
5.Kaido

Shichibukai

1.Dracule Mihawk
2.Doflamingo
3.Trafalgar Law
4.Kuma
5.jinbei
6.Boa Hancock (Her sexiness makes her DF ability OP unless of course you're gay like Luffy)/Jinbei
7.Crocodile
8.Gekko Moriah
9.Captain Buggy

Admirals

1.Monkey D. Garp (I have an extreme bias for Garp)
2.Sengoku
3.Akainu
4.Kizaru
5.Fujitora
6.Aokiji

No disrespect towards Aojiki I like him alot but I personally think the others are better.

To be honest I don't even fully agree with my list. My knowledge on One Piece isn't eh best so it's harder for me to to a ranking list for OP than it is for Naruto especially since the power differences in Naruto are much more clear (probably due to the story reaching it's climax), so I completely understand if anyone decides to bash my list

Judging by hype, Kaido would be > Big Mom.
Between Blackbeard, Shanks, Whitebeard and Kaido it's kinda tied as far as I know

You're about spot on on the shichibukai but I would maybe place Hancock above Jimbei.

For admirals Garp was the number 1 for sure but now I think neither Garp or Sengoku can compete with the new admirals.

1. Akainu
2. Kizaru
3. Fujitora
4. Ryukogyu or whatever his name was

Kuzan is hard to say because he isn't an enemy anymore.

 

[Ineverquit]

With Current and Past of everything...

Admirals

1. Akainu
2. Kuzan
3. Fujitora
4. Kizaru (Would be #1 since technically he is unbeatable unless he lets himself get hit because of his devil fruit but isn't because of plot no jutsu)
5. Sengoku
Ryokugyu?
Zephyr?

Yonko

1. Whitebeard
2. Shanks
3. Blackbeard
4. Kaido/Big Mom
5. Kaido/Big Mom

Shichubukia

1. Mihawk
2. Blackbeard
3. Doflamingo
4. Kuma
5. Jinbe
6. Law
7. Moria/Crocodile
8. Moria/Crocodile
9. Boa
10. Buggy

 

[Olorin]

Why are people saying Kizaru should technically be unbeatable? Makes no sense

 

[Hijey]

Why are people saying Kizaru should technically be unbeatable? Makes no sense

It's because he can move at the speed of light. Ofcourse it's too hax so Oda made it so that it has a charge up time, but some ignore it for some reason :\

 

[Olorin]

It's because he can move at the speed of light. Ofcourse it's too hax so Oda made it so that it has a charge up time, but some ignore it for some reason :\

that was meant to be more of a rhetorical sarcasm-ish comment (but it doesn't work in writing )

yea I know about the speed but ppl fail to realize noone can just move at the speed of light all the time because a human brain just doesn't process fast enough, there are 2 things Kizaru needs to do: 1. Change into Light which takes some time 2. predetermine a route to travel as speed of light ... otherwise he would just bump into random things ... and that also takes a lot of time, plenty in fact to be countered by top tiers

 

[kuramasage]

Yonko
1. Whitebeard
2. Blackbeard
3. Shanks
4. Big Mom
5. Kaido

Shichibukai
1. Mihawk
2. Kuma
3. Hancock
4. Law (he was tired from fighting Fujitora with Dofla interfering and defending the Sunny when Dofla stomped him)
5. Doflamingo
6. Crocodile/Jimbei
8. Moriah (when we last saw him, I predict he's regained his former glory over the Timeskip and can now fight and damage Kaido)
9. Buggy
Don't know enough about the last Shichibukai to properly rank him but I'd say he's stronger than Hancock.

Admirals
1. Sengoku
2. Akainu
3. Aokiji
4. Kizaru
5. Fujitora/Ryokugyu
I didn't count Garp because while he was that level, even the strongest , in his prime he was never actually an Admiral.

 

[iSpeak]

No, it's not. Is Shanks now on another level compared to the Admirals or what? We know for a fact Mihawk and Shanks are on the same level, regarldess of who is stronger, via his title and role in the story. He's stronger than Rayleigh who even in old age was mentioned in the same breath as Whitebeard and portrayed as strong as Kizaru. The manga made it clear the Emperors and the Admirals are more or less on par and there are people like Mihawk etc who has similar strength as that group. So with Mihawk and Shanks we have similar hype resulting in similar strength and Moria's hype is nowhere near Kaido's meaning he's fodder compared to Kaido.

Do any of the other Warlords have hype that puts them side by side with the Admirals and Emperors? That's exactly what it does with Mihawk. He is the only Warlord who Oda did not introduce the Warlord title upon his introduction/chapter title and who's bounty has not been shown. He was also the only Warlord paired together with the Admirals/WB to start the war in the chapter called the battle of the mightiest. Oda clearly put him on a pedestal higher than any other Warlord.

Yeah. He's the World's most wanted man. There were three other people who had 'World's something' in their title and all of them were on the level of the Admirals/Emperors. He's also a D who is trying to overthrow the most powerful organisation and the father of the future PK and the son of Garp and there's no doubt how extremely powerful the latter two are at their peak. So, Kuma who doesn't even have the hype nor the feats required to be Admiral/Emperor level is up there according to you(since you put him above Mihawk who you think is on that level, unless I misunderstood you) and his boss is not? Why is that?

Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world and Vista is a swordsman. Unlike Rayleigh, he doesn't have hype that puts him on Admiral/Emperor level.

He was warned by Aokiji not to touch Smoker and because he ignored it, he was casually frozen by Aokiji. He didn't escape 'easily.' He was heavily panting from just one casual Admiral attack - not a good sign by someone you claim is on Admiral/Emperor level. Fujitora was merely testing his power which made both Doflamingo and Law(are you going to argue Law is Admiral level too?) extremely worried judging by their reaction which again is not a good sign. Even Kinemon survived a kick by Doflamingo so that won't even faze an Admiral. Having King's haki = / = Admiral/Emperor level. Chinjao and Luffy posses King's haki and like Doflamingo, they don't have the hype to be placed up there. And fyi, he never toyed with Jozu like Atmos. Even though he caught him off guard, all he managed to do was immobilize Jozu. An exhausted Law was able to push Doflamingo, fight him for some time and even damage him. He was also got injured during the war... That's not how it works because by that logic, you could argue the same for Boa Hancock and a lot of other people. What hype does he have that puts him on Admiral/Emperor level? He doesn't have the hype and therefore he's below them, simple. Luffy has said numerous times he was going to kick Doflamingo's ass and this is Doflamingo's arc. Why should I not assume it won't be Luffy alone when Luffy has yet to show his full potential 3 arcs in after the TS and Doflamingo being the perfect opponent to demonstrate it on? Lucci and Crocodile seemed unbeatable at first but that didn't stop them from being defeated by Luffy.

Kuma's best feat was to destroy an exhausted Mugiwara crew and no hype that suggests he's on similar level as the Admirals/Emperors. Law has superior feat than him because he defeated two Vice Admirals within the same arc and like Kuma, no hype that suggests he's on Admiral/Emperor level. Both of them have extremely hax devil fruits but one has much better feat. How come he is lower than Kuma on your list?

It feels like I just keep going back and forth.

Look, we don't know whether Mihawk is on Shanks level now, all we know is he used to be at least 12 years ago just like Gekko was equal to Kaido at one point. This was back when Shanks lost an arm to a random sea monster. I don't know how I can make this point clearer. Magellan near enough one shotted Blackbeard and his crew in impel down, yet we wouldn't say he is Yokou level. Blackbeard managed to scar shanks face before he even had a devil fruit, yet we wouldn't have put that blackbeard at Yonko level. My point is that Mihawk past clashes is not enough to put him at that level now. Vista managed to stalemate Mihawk, this is clearly shown and you cannot ignore this. Him stalemating Mihawk (which was their only clash together) is a feat which you must accept. Using your calculations Vista should be Yonko level aswell. No hype puts Mihawk at admiral or Yonko level, only fan made hype. He even failed to stop PTS Luffy from reaching the execution platform.

You think Mihawk's bounty not being revealed makes him Admiral level? Are you serious? You think that because Oda didn't introduce the worlor title on his introduction it makes him Admiral level? All of this is meaningless you are obviously being biased towards him. If it was any other Warlord it would go unnoticed. He wanted to see WB's strength for himself but his strongest slash got blocked by his underling with 0 damage… the same underling that Doflamingo toyed with in the war. Also him being the first warlord to act means nothing… even VA's had started before any warlord did… the war had already fully started.

No you misunderstood. I don't think any of there warlords are at Admiral/Emperor level. I think Mihawk, Kuma and Doflamingo are the closest to it but ill put Kuma and Dofla(as of now) slightly closer. Dragon barely have anything to judge his strength but If i was to take a wild guess ill probably put him on Admiral level. But obviously I have barely anything to base it off.

Lmao wow you have clearly misread the situation between Aokiji and Doflamingo. Let me explain to you what happened:

Aokiji kindly asks Doflaming if he could get off Smoker.
Doflamingo laughs at Aokiji and continues to attack Smoker, taking no notice of the Admiral behind him
Aokiji manages to freeze Doflamingo (who had his back turned) just before he could put hands on Smoker
Doflamingo casuly escapes the ice
Doflamingo laughs and casually walks past Aokiji
Doflamingo threatens Aokiji saying if Smoker "flaps his gums" they will have to settle the fight through to the conclusion
Aokiji explains that Doflamingo prowess as a pirate is "unrivalled"
Aokij explains that Doflamingo is the biggest threat to the new Marines HQ.

I mean, I don't know how much clearer Oda could have made it. Even though I don't believe any of the Warlords are, this scene alone should easily put Doflamingo on Admiral level. I know for a fact that if this was Mihawk in the situation, everybody would say it does. Aokiji saying that Doflamingo's "prowess as a pirate in unrivalled" should automatically put him above Mihawk.

Doflamingo made the first move on Fujitora and was laughing throughout the conversation... how the hell does that snow Doflamingo was anywhere near worried...

Doflamingo stopped Jozu in his tracks and stood on his back whilst casually talking to Crocodile… I don't know what else I can say. Doflamingo trolled everyone he faced thought the WB war and no, Doflamingo never got injured throughout the war.

Plus you keep trying to judge your answers based on how you think the story "might" go in the future. How do you know Mihawk will be Zoro's last fight? How do you know Shiliew won't kill Mihawk before that and gain the WSS title, then Zoro would need to fight him whilst Luffy fights BB? that would be much more interesting.

 

[Hijey]

It feels like I just keep going back and forth.

Look, we don't know whether Mihawk is on Shanks level now, all we know is he used to be at least 12 years ago just like Gekko was equal to Kaido at one point. This was back when Shanks lost an arm to a random sea monster. I don't know how I can make this point clearer. Magellan near enough one shotted Blackbeard and his crew in impel down, yet we wouldn't say he is Yokou level. Blackbeard managed to scar shanks face before he even had a devil fruit, yet we wouldn't have put that blackbeard at Yonko level. My point is that Mihawk past clashes is not enough to put him at that level now. Vista managed to stalemate Mihawk, this is clearly shown and you cannot ignore this. Him stalemating Mihawk (which was their only clash together) is a feat which you must accept. Using your calculations Vista should be Yonko level aswell. No hype puts Mihawk at admiral or Yonko level, only fan made hype. He even failed to stop PTS Luffy from reaching the execution platform.

You think Mihawk's bounty not being revealed makes him Admiral level? Are you serious? You think that because Oda didn't introduce the worlor title on his introduction it makes him Admiral level? All of this is meaningless you are obviously being biased towards him. If it was any other Warlord it would go unnoticed. He wanted to see WB's strength for himself but his strongest slash got blocked by his underling with 0 damage… the same underling that Doflamingo toyed with in the war. Also him being the first warlord to act means nothing… even VA's had started before any warlord did… the war had already fully started.

No you misunderstood. I don't think any of there warlords are at Admiral/Emperor level. I think Mihawk, Kuma and Doflamingo are the closest to it but ill put Kuma and Dofla(as of now) slightly closer. Dragon barely have anything to judge his strength but If i was to take a wild guess ill probably put him on Admiral level. But obviously I have barely anything to base it off.

Lmao wow you have clearly misread the situation between Aokiji and Doflamingo. Let me explain to you what happened:

Aokiji kindly asks Doflaming if he could get off Smoker.
Doflamingo laughs at Aokiji and continues to attack Smoker, taking no notice of the Admiral behind him
Aokiji manages to freeze Doflamingo (who had his back turned) just before he could put hands on Smoker
Doflamingo casuly escapes the ice
Doflamingo laughs and casually walks past Aokiji
Doflamingo threatens Aokiji saying if Smoker "flaps his gums" they will have to settle the fight through to the conclusion
Aokiji explains that Doflamingo prowess as a pirate is "unrivalled"
Aokij explains that Doflamingo is the biggest threat to the new Marines HQ.

I mean, I don't know how much clearer Oda could have made it. Even though I don't believe any of the Warlords are, this scene alone should easily put Doflamingo on Admiral level. I know for a fact that if this was Mihawk in the situation, everybody would say it does. Aokiji saying that Doflamingo's "prowess as a pirate in unrivalled" should automatically put him above Mihawk.

Doflamingo made the first move on Fujitora and was laughing throughout the conversation... how the hell does that snow Doflamingo was anywhere near worried...

Doflamingo stopped Jozu in his tracks and stood on his back whilst casually talking to Crocodile… I don't know what else I can say. Doflamingo trolled everyone he faced thought the WB war and no, Doflamingo never got injured throughout the war.

Plus you keep trying to judge your answers based on how you think the story "might" go in the future. How do you know Mihawk will be Zoro's last fight? How do you know Shiliew won't kill Mihawk before that and gain the WSS title, then Zoro would need to fight him whilst Luffy fights BB? that would be much more interesting.

I think answering the questions you are dodging will stop that.

Yes, we do know. Are the Emperor and Admirals not on the same level or not? Based on what is Shanks, an Emperor, on another level than Rayleigh and an Admiral, Kizaru? I agree with you that using past clashes is wrong as you've shown it doesn't work with Kaido/Moria and pre timeskip Blackbeard/Emperor Shanks. However, I'm not using Mihawk's past clashes to say he is on Shanks level, that would be foolish. Oda portrayed Rayleigh to be as strong as an Admiral, Kizaru. Rayleigh has as much as hype as any Admiral/Emperor and he was able to stalemate Kizaru. We don't know who is stronger between Rayleigh and Kizaru. All we do know is that via their hype and their clash that they are more or less on par. Being stronger than Rayleigh who has as much hype as the Admirals and Emperors means Mihawk is at that level as well. Being the biggest obstacle for the future PK right hand man, the guy who is only good at fighting and only second to Luffy in the crew puts him at that level as well. Luffy wants to surpass Shanks and via his hype we can deduce he is up there with the big boys, the one Zoro wants to surpass is no different. The reason Mihawk failed to 'stop' Luffy was because Vista protected Luffy. This by no means dehypes Mihawk, it means Vista while he doesn't have the hype of an Admiral/Emperor proved he can play with people of that level. Oda implied Vista could last longer by having Mihawk be the one to ask for them to fight some other time. I can see on your list that you're open for the possibility that Kizaru is stronger than Akainu for whatever reason so if you act like Mihawk being stopped by Vista means he isn't Admiral/Emperor level then that means neither are Rayleigh who is ~ Kizaru who could possibly be > Akainu(according to you). We also have Aokiji who was said to be almost as strong as Akainu and you also admit there's small gaps between the Admirals as well(which I and most people ofc agree with). Two Admirals (Sengoku, Kizaru) also failed to take out Luffy and they had more reason to kill him right away than Mihawk who was testing Luffy's luck. Plot was clearly on Luffy's side because Mihawk/Sengoku/Kizaru are so much stronger that they can fodderize him whenever they want to.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said those things make him an Admiral level but that Oda did that to him and not the other 6 Warlords. This is ofcourse no surprise because they don't have hype which puts them at Admiral level like Mihawk. If this was another Warlord it wouldn't go unnoticed, I'm not sure why you'd say otherwise. A fodder named the slash the strongest and not Mihawk which means it's a slash from the strongest swordsman. The slash also travelled a fair distance and the best counter stopped it - a diamond man and not a man made out of flesh. Daz who is a man made out of steel was able to stop an attack aimed at Luffy. Jozu is also not anyone as well. He was strong enough for Oda to speed up his loss against an Admiral(Aokiji). Kizaru was stopped not only once but twice by WB's underling. I guess this means that this Admiral is not Admiral level as well. It was only the big boys that performed attacks. Mihawk's attack was used together with Kizaru's attack to introduce us to and hype WB's underlings.

So Rayleigh and Kizaru are not at Admiral/Emperoro level? :/ He doesn't have any less hype than those people and he leads an organization trying to overthrow the WG which consists of several people of that level. Everything points towards to him being on the same level. You're confusing fanmade hype with actual hype. Most people think Dragon is the strongest but that doesn't mean that it's true. He could be the strongest but he could also be weakest amongst those guys.

What would one expect if told to get off of a friend and they try to attack that said friend? Get attacked by the one who told them to get off. Doflamingo was aware of that. He attacked Smoker thinking he would be fast enough to finish him off but he wasn't and was casually frozen. Doflamingo manages to escape from the ice but he was heavily panting. If it was casual, he wouldn't be panting. Jozu/Marco took attacks from Mihawk/Kizaru that certainly weren't casual like Aokiji but they looked much better than him. Doflamingo told he doesn't want to fight Aokiji and that if he can't stop Smoker right now, he would have to change his plans. It seems to me that you were the one to misread the situation.

No, you got it wrong. If that was Mihawk, nobody would say he's an Admiral level because an Admiral level wouldn't look as bad as Doflamingo who took a casual Admiral attack. In fact, if that were to happen, the guy wouldn't even be worthy of a challenge for Zoro who'll be one of the people to take down an Admiral during the big war. It doesn't happen to people on the same level. Luffy and Zoro who are on the same level fought and dished out one of their stronger moves and they both looked equally good. Rayleigh faced an Admiral who was much more serious than the one Doflamingo faced and he looked a lot better. When did Aokiji say say that? Because by that logic, Doflamingo is above Shanks, Kaido, Big Mom, Blackbeard. I don't think he ever said that because it doesn't even make any sense.

I'm talking about the time Fujitora was merely testing his abilities when they were at Green Bit. Doflamingo was every bit as worried as Law from an Admiral barely trying out his ability.

He stopped him thanks to Jozu being caught off guard. If he truly was on Jozu's level, why have Jozu be caught off guard so that Doflamingo can have the upper hand? We've seen how the Yeti Cool brothers caught Zoro/Sanji off guard and got the upper hand. Are you going to argue they are on M3 Level and even above as well seeing as they came out on top? Doflamingo never came out

You must be registered for see links

from the war.

Because that seems to be the likeliest thing to happen. It's been heavily foreshadowed since 1997. Why should I assume otherwise when nothing implies otherwise? The same logic can be applied to Blackbeard/Akainu etc. Since Oda foreshadowed Luffy is going to beat those guys, is it then right to assume other SN's will defeat them? When nothing hints towards that? For example, we know Luffy plans to wipe the floor with all of the Emperors which Shanks, the guy he wants to surpass, is part of. Oda foreshadowed that Shanks and Co will have a fight against Blackbeard and Co. One of those two will happen before the other, but you can't lean towards more than the other. Mihawk doesn't have to be Zoro's last opponent but his toughest like how Blackbeard will be to Luffy.

So why are you putting Kuma above Law/Doflamingo/Boa who all have better feats than him and not worse hype? Isn't that what your list is based on? Or is he on top because you like him more than those guys?

 

[iSpeak]

I think answering the questions you are dodging will stop that.

Yes, we do know. Are the Emperor and Admirals not on the same level or not? Based on what is Shanks, an Emperor, on another level than Rayleigh and an Admiral, Kizaru? I agree with you that using past clashes is wrong as you've shown it doesn't work with Kaido/Moria and pre timeskip Blackbeard/Emperor Shanks. However, I'm not using Mihawk's past clashes to say he is on Shanks level, that would be foolish. Oda portrayed Rayleigh to be as strong as an Admiral, Kizaru. Rayleigh has as much as hype as any Admiral/Emperor and he was able to stalemate Kizaru. We don't know who is stronger between Rayleigh and Kizaru. All we do know is that via their hype and their clash that they are more or less on par. Being stronger than Rayleigh who has as much hype as the Admirals and Emperors means Mihawk is at that level as well. Being the biggest obstacle for the future PK right hand man, the guy who is only good at fighting and only second to Luffy in the crew puts him at that level as well. Luffy wants to surpass Shanks and via his hype we can deduce he is up there with the big boys, the one Zoro wants to surpass is no different. The reason Mihawk failed to 'stop' Luffy was because Vista protected Luffy. This by no means dehypes Mihawk, it means Vista while he doesn't have the hype of an Admiral/Emperor proved he can play with people of that level. Oda implied Vista could last longer by having Mihawk be the one to ask for them to fight some other time. I can see on your list that you're open for the possibility that Kizaru is stronger than Akainu for whatever reason so if you act like Mihawk being stopped by Vista means he isn't Admiral/Emperor level then that means neither are Rayleigh who is ~ Kizaru who could possibly be > Akainu(according to you). We also have Aokiji who was said to be almost as strong as Akainu and you also admit there's small gaps between the Admirals as well(which I and most people ofc agree with). Two Admirals (Sengoku, Kizaru) also failed to take out Luffy and they had more reason to kill him right away than Mihawk who was testing Luffy's luck. Plot was clearly on Luffy's side because Mihawk/Sengoku/Kizaru are so much stronger that they can fodderize him whenever they want to.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said those things make him an Admiral level but that Oda did that to him and not the other 6 Warlords. This is ofcourse no surprise because they don't have hype which puts them at Admiral level like Mihawk. If this was another Warlord it wouldn't go unnoticed, I'm not sure why you'd say otherwise. A fodder named the slash the strongest and not Mihawk which means it's a slash from the strongest swordsman. The slash also travelled a fair distance and the best counter stopped it - a diamond man and not a man made out of flesh. Daz who is a man made out of steel was able to stop an attack aimed at Luffy. Jozu is also not anyone as well. He was strong enough for Oda to speed up his loss against an Admiral(Aokiji). Kizaru was stopped not only once but twice by WB's underling. I guess this means that this Admiral is not Admiral level as well. It was only the big boys that performed attacks. Mihawk's attack was used together with Kizaru's attack to introduce us to and hype WB's underlings.

So Rayleigh and Kizaru are not at Admiral/Emperoro level? :/ He doesn't have any less hype than those people and he leads an organization trying to overthrow the WG which consists of several people of that level. Everything points towards to him being on the same level. You're confusing fanmade hype with actual hype. Most people think Dragon is the strongest but that doesn't mean that it's true. He could be the strongest but he could also be weakest amongst those guys.

What would one expect if told to get off of a friend and they try to attack that said friend? Get attacked by the one who told them to get off. Doflamingo was aware of that. He attacked Smoker thinking he would be fast enough to finish him off but he wasn't and was casually frozen. Doflamingo manages to escape from the ice but he was heavily panting. If it was casual, he wouldn't be panting. Jozu/Marco took attacks from Mihawk/Kizaru that certainly weren't casual like Aokiji but they looked much better than him. Doflamingo told he doesn't want to fight Aokiji and that if he can't stop Smoker right now, he would have to change his plans. It seems to me that you were the one to misread the situation.

No, you got it wrong. If that was Mihawk, nobody would say he's an Admiral level because an Admiral level wouldn't look as bad as Doflamingo who took a casual Admiral attack. In fact, if that were to happen, the guy wouldn't even be worthy of a challenge for Zoro who'll be one of the people to take down an Admiral during the big war. It doesn't happen to people on the same level. Luffy and Zoro who are on the same level fought and dished out one of their stronger moves and they both looked equally good. Rayleigh faced an Admiral who was much more serious than the one Doflamingo faced and he looked a lot better. When did Aokiji say say that? Because by that logic, Doflamingo is above Shanks, Kaido, Big Mom, Blackbeard. I don't think he ever said that because it doesn't even make any sense.

I'm talking about the time Fujitora was merely testing his abilities when they were at Green Bit. Doflamingo was every bit as worried as Law from an Admiral barely trying out his ability.

He stopped him thanks to Jozu being caught off guard. If he truly was on Jozu's level, why have Jozu be caught off guard so that Doflamingo can have the upper hand? We've seen how the Yeti Cool brothers caught Zoro/Sanji off guard and got the upper hand. Are you going to argue they are on M3 Level and even above as well seeing as they came out on top? Doflamingo never came out

You must be registered for see links

from the war.

Because that seems to be the likeliest thing to happen. It's been heavily foreshadowed since 1997. Why should I assume otherwise when nothing implies otherwise? The same logic can be applied to Blackbeard/Akainu etc. Since Oda foreshadowed Luffy is going to beat those guys, is it then right to assume other SN's will defeat them? When nothing hints towards that? For example, we know Luffy plans to wipe the floor with all of the Emperors which Shanks, the guy he wants to surpass, is part of. Oda foreshadowed that Shanks and Co will have a fight against Blackbeard and Co. One of those two will happen before the other, but you can't lean towards more than the other. Mihawk doesn't have to be Zoro's last opponent but his toughest like how Blackbeard will be to Luffy.

So why are you putting Kuma above Law/Doflamingo/Boa who all have better feats than him and not worse hype? Isn't that what your list is based on? Or is he on top because you like him more than those guys?

So we agree that using Mihawk's past clashes with Shanks doesn't show he is currently on that level? Good, then I don't need to speak on that anymore.

So from what I see, you are basing this off Rayleigh's clash with Kizaru and hype. First of all, I'm guessing you believe Mihawk>Rayleigh because of the title, seeing as Rayleigh is a swordsman? Well, whilst fighting Kizaru Rayleigh says "its been a while since I have held a sword". So Mihawk most likely attained the title after Rayleigh was inactive as a pirate and stopped using his swords to become a Coating Mechanic shortly after Roger died. Meaning he wasn't counted when Mihawk became the WSS.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Second, Rayleigh fighting with Kizaru or a short while doesn't mean his is on that level. Like you said with the Vista/Mihawk fight, it just means he is strong enough to at least give him a battle. That is the point I was trying to get across. So no, I wouldn't say current Rayleigh is Admiral level, probably just underneath Admiral level though we haven't seen much from him. This is also hinted when Rayleigh explains that he is getting old and tires easily. All other hype relating to Rayleigh refers to his prime days back when he was with Roger.

Again, you keep talking about Mihawk having hype which puts him at Admiral level when there is none. Then you say none of the other Warlords have hype that does when I just gave you some clear hype of Doflamingo's. Clearly Aokiji explains that Doflamingo's prowess as a pirate is unrivalled here:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Aokiji also says that Akainu should immediately dispatch the Admirals (plural) to deal with him, and explains that he is the biggest threat to the new marines HQ.This should automatically puts him at Admiral level and above Mihawk as, Mihawk has no hype which can counteract it.

Against Aokiji he was panting… he had just come all the way from Dressrosa to PH and just finished fighting a VA and other marines then gets attacked whilst his back was turned… It is clear that Aokiji himself sees Dofla as a very big threat.

Read what Doflamingo says to Aokiji:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

"Ill take a rain check… but if that little turd there decides to flap his gums… well see this dance through to its conclusion."

It is also funny how you keep trying to foresee how the story will end up… you are not Oda. I believe Shilliew will defeat Mihawk and will be Zoro's biggest challenge. But obviously none of us know how the story will turn out.

Doflamingo wasn't worried about Fujitora strength… he was just surprised that Fujitora would use a large scale attack like that when he has his own men around, which is why he questioned what Fujitora was doing. The attack could have hurt anyone. Even Fujitora himself had to pull out his sword to block his own attack. Doflamingo easily uses his strings to cut the meteor up and guess what? He wasn't even panting.

Doflamingo did come on unscathed in the war. Are you really going to bring up a panel with dirt or something on his face to tell me he was harmed? Doflamingo is clearly seen with nothing on his face a few pages after:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And like I said before, I put Kuma up there because of how well he has mastered his DF. He is far faster than those mentioned and has shown incredible reflexes being able to easilyly counter a close range bloodlust G2 puffy attack, making it extremely difficult for someone to hit him without being caught off guard. He has near enough limitless stamina being a Cyborg and obviously very high durability. He has island level destructive capacity and basically one touch from him and it is over. An out of breath Luffy managed to dodge point blank slashed from Mihawk… they shouldn't be a problem at all for Kuma.