Proper Dazno/Hiruzen VS. EMS User Thread

[DaileyM]

Team 1 wins.

 

[Misconception]

Um...... Huh? Where do I even begin? Does Izanagi disrupt Sasuke chakra flow[

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>

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]No? This isn't a good example to proof your point




They can't use there strongest Susanoo form via PS

Oh ok Ems users still stomps...

 

[Brother Numpsay]

What does Sasuke's chakra have anything to do with my point? Izanagi works on the same principle as KA. Its used on the user himself, just like Itachi used it on himself. Sasuke's own Genjutsu, when used it on Danzo had no effect on Izanagi, even though Genjutsu would effect the brain and chakra flow.

Except Izanagi doesn't have the same principle as KA..

Ill reply later after class..

 

[Bronze]

Except Izanagi doesn't have the same principle as KA..

Ill reply later after class..

The principle I meant as in KA used on Itachi and Izanagi used on the user himself generally. Maybe the right word is reference, but my point still stands.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Assuming Madara can overpower KA, when Itachi couldn't

Itachi had no reason to overcome it. It did what he wanted, which was break Kabuto's control.

Anyway, Kabuto was trying to place Itachi right back under his control. So that means he could gain back control even after Ka's use.

 

[Unorthodox]

EJblack serious baku is one shotted with amaterasu same is hiruzen or a susanoo arrow i find it insanely funny that you think these fodders has a chance hiruzen elements did nothing to the mini buddah when A was punching right through it

sasuke wins low diff same for madara

kirin is the strongest element jutsu ever shown and susanoo tanked it and smiled

 

[AGoodBoy]

EJblack serious baku is one shotted with amaterasu same is hiruzen or a susanoo arrow i find it insanely funny that you think these fodders has a chance hiruzen elements did nothing to the mini buddah when A was punching right through it

sasuke wins low diff same for madara

kirin is the strongest element jutsu ever shown and susanoo tanked it and smiled

I never knew susano'o could smile XD

 

[Unorthodox]

I never knew susano'o could smile XD

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susanoo can smile

 

[Minator93]

Dafuq is this shit?

Kishi himself has confirmed that "Hiruzen knows counters to ALL MS/EMS jutsus!" in the Official Naruto Fanbook-2. Hiruzen wins against an EMS user.

Danzo 1-shots with KA U_U

 

[Unorthodox]

Dafuq is this shit?

Kishi himself has confirmed that "Hiruzen knows counters to ALL MS/EMS jutsus!" in the Official Naruto Fanbook-2. Hiruzen wins against an EMS user.

Danzo 1-shots with KA U_U

sometimes i wonder do you take yourself serious O_O

 

[Minator93]

sometimes i wonder do you take yourself serious O_O

KA 1-shots canonically.

Kishi himself said Hiruzen knows counters to all MS/EMS techs.

This isn't even an opinion, these are facts which Sasuke fapboys can't accept U_U

 

[Draphsin]

- No Perfect Sussano

Isn't this the point of an EMS vs thread?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

The principle I meant as in KA used on Itachi and Izanagi used on the user himself generally. Maybe the right word is reference, but my point still stands.

Your point doenst stand because its not the same thing.

KA hits the target like how every Sharingan Genjutsu works. KA is not Itachi, don't know where you are getting that. Which is specifically Yin.

Izanagi works without the 5 senses, defy the actual reality, and doesn't disrupt chakra flow at all, its in a different class via Yin+Yang

Nothing implies the same principle

Itachi had no reason to overcome it. It did what he wanted, which was break Kabuto's control.

Anyway, Kabuto was trying to place Itachi right back under his control. So that means he could gain back control even after Ka's use.

Right but Kabuto's method of chakra disrupt was ineffective nor was Sasukes. Both Genjutsu layer didn't effect KA the slightest. Which is why Kabuto wanted to completely give Itachi a new mind via tails men

Isn't this the point of an EMS vs thread?

They have no counter to PS so, will there be a point making it unrestricted/with conditions?

Lol, stop right there. When you can get me anything that implies Baku's exhalation is as strong as its inhalation then we can talk. Until then, its nothing but fanfiction.

Baku has never show to do what I mention.. Which is why I am speaking logically as if you were to blow and suck in air. And Logically blowing with force is easier to do then sucking with force.As it is easier to exhale(blow) and to actually inhale that powerful. Baku should logically do the same with those lungs of his

No, it won't. Hiruzen's Fuuton is too weak to do anything notable to any of the Susanoo mentioned in my post, and Hashirama's cells don't power up Ninjutsu.

Fuuton rivaled 5 elements that could of cremated the SA in the battle field. Which each of them can be rivaled to fighting summonings. Futon effects also works but powering up the velocity of an attack, explained by Kisimoto and proof with manga(if I need to post scan). So it wouldn't be weak with support on support.

I didn't mean his cells will power up the Ninjutsu but will be used as if they were to release a tech like "if they were in their prime" due to the cell boost.

If they ever use it, there will be nothing stopping Sasuke or Madara from Madara retaliating with Enton/Katon.

And there nothing stopping them using Suiton and Suiton+Futon combo too. Which can overpower an overwelm. But in Enton's case, Stop it traveling flow/destination on its target

Strong enough attacks on the weak enough level of Susanoo is what causes it to be destroyed. Concussive force is nothing but more nonsense you pulled out of your arse.

@Bold no it isn't unless you believe Kabuto Suiton destroyed Sasuke's ribcage lol.. Or anything I mention partially(as answer can vary true or nah) [

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-Nothing he has can destroy Susanoo so Susanoo will stand even after he attacks it.

With my premise they wouldn't attempting to destroy it. But bypassing it/paralyzing it with Curse Seal.

Either way, if he's using it all they need to pressure him, since as long as its up they can't permanently kill him.

True. But changing your destination +Hashirama cell boost the time for each eye, isn't going to be that easy. Escially when Danzo won't be playing around/abusing it. As every minute counts

 

[Bronze]

Your point doenst stand because its not the same thing.

KA hits the target like how every Sharingan Genjutsu works. KA is not Itachi, don't know where you are getting that. Which is specifically Yin.

Izanagi works without the 5 senses, defy the actual reality, and doesn't disrupt chakra flow at all, its in a different class via Yin+Yang

Nothing implies the same principle

You are not understanding my post and not reading carefully.

Izanagi is only used on the user himself. KA can be also used on the user as well, if he is under the control of someone else. By this, both have similarities. Now, Izanagi effects the user's flow of chakra and brain. KA will do the same if its used on the user.

Sasuke casted Tsukuyomi on Danzo, thus Danzo is under influence of 2 Genjutsu. 1, being his own (Izanagi), and the other being Tsukuyomi. He was not affected by it at all. The same has happened with Edo Itachi.

And you're wrong, Izanagi was originally used by the Uchiha clan in their battles. Itachi confirmed it.

 

[Draphsin]

@EJblack: What I'm saying is that an EMS user's "trait" is perfect susanoo, take that away & you basically just got a MS user with no backlash.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Is this a redo of my thread by any chance?

And yeah Sasuke wins by Maddy doesn't IMO.

 

[shelke]

The EMS users shit on them. It's non-debatable.

 

[Unorthodox]

The EMS users shit on them. It's non-debatable.

right ejblack always trying to debate the impossible or why some weak character can defeat uchiha madara or sasuke

i dont see why baku is even in the discussion genjutus one shots amaterasu one shotes susanoo arrow down the throat

 

[KidGamer65]

Baku has never show to do what I mention.. Which is why I am speaking logically as if you were to blow and suck in air. And Logically blowing with force is easier to do then sucking with force.As it is easier to exhale(blow) and to actually inhale that powerful. Baku should logically do the same with those lungs of his

You are trying to apply scientific logic to Naruto in order to prove your point. Not how it works when you have no proof that's how Baku's suction works. Baku's abilities have already been highlighted and suction is the only one.

Fuuton rivaled 5 elements that could of cremated the SA in the battle field. Which each of them can be rivaled to fighting summonings. Futon effects also works but powering up the velocity of an attack, explained by Kisimoto and proof with manga(if I need to post scan). So it wouldn't be weak with support on support.

-Cremating SA<<<<<<<<Destroying Susanoo.

-Rivaling Summons<<<<<<<Destroying Susanoo.

It not being weak doesn't mean it'll break Susanoo open.

I didn't mean his cells will power up the Ninjutsu but will be used as if they were to release a tech like "if they were in their prime" due to the cell boost.

Ok.

And there nothing stopping them using Suiton and Suiton+Futon combo too. Which can overpower an overwelm. But in Enton's case, Stop it traveling flow/destination on its target

Ok then.

@Bold no it isn't unless you believe Kabuto Suiton destroyed Sasuke's ribcage lol.. Or anything I mention partially(as answer can vary true or nah) [

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It was either destroyed or Sasuke removed it, and the latter is unlikely. Concussive force doesn't magically remove Susanoo.

1.) Ay+Onoki combo enable them to built enough speed force and power to break the back bone of V2 Susanoo[1]. Not only did it did such damage, it send Madara flying[2]. Once crash, you have notice Madara temporary had Susanoo removed (off screen but Madara was out of commission when the Kages had a full conversation with Naruto)

They destroyed it with this attack.

2.) Tsunade, Mei, and Ay+Onoki[1] combo KO'd Madara until a wall. Once smacked on the wall Ribcaged was removed[2].

They destroyed it with this attack too. These examples are nothing but the Susanoo taking damage, then it being smashed against the ground finishes it off.

4.) Guy backstabs Madara with Hirudora, the air pressure damage had Madara out of commission[1]. We know this off screen, due to Hachibi's comment of Mokuton losing its grip[2], thus the chakra on Wood wasn't focused anymore to do its job. (This can be a case of Mokuton users too )

Because it was destroyed. Not magically removed.

5.) Continuous Wood punches from the face[1] had PS Sussanoo removed from Kyuubi[2].

Again, it was destroyed. Not magically removed.

With my premise they wouldn't attempting to destroy it. But bypassing it/paralyzing it with Curse Seal.

No.

It has already been established that juinjutsu/fuinjutsu can work on Susanoo, when Juugo send his chakra to Sasuke's[1>2](And the fact Onoki send chakra thorough Sussano, making the entity heavier[X]). Danzo can use his Seal to paralyzed the entity. Unlike when he used it in the manga, he won't be wasting time getting in Sasuke's head, making him emotional (which was explained how he broke it the first time). Same can apply to Madara.

Fuinjutsu nor Juinjutsu was EVER used on Susanoo. Jugo sent Senjutsu chakra into Susanoo. Which isn't Juinjutsu nor is it anywhere near Fuinjutsu, the same goes for Onoki, so the rest of your post is irrelevant.

Lets not mention that he needs to touch Susanoo for that, and he canonically got smashed in a second when he got too close, so this scenario can never happen.

True. But changing your destination +Hashirama cell boost the time for each eye, isn't going to be that easy. Escially when Danzo won't be playing around/abusing it. As every minute counts

If he wants to live he'll need Izanagi active every second of this match.

-Arrows (Which Danzo canonically cannot evade) can be spammed.

-Enton Magatama

These things will kill him with ease every time they are used. Hiruzen shouldn't even be mentioned from here on out since he doesn't stand a chance against Amaterasu or an arrow.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

You are not understanding my post and not reading carefully.

I must not, if were are doing Sharingan jutsu comparisons with different mechanics.

Izanagi is only used on the user himself.

Right, which has nothing to do with using the 5 senses and to disrupt chakra like Genjutsu does.

KA can be also used on the user as well, if he is under the control of someone else.

Ok.. I hope your example isn't saying Shisui eye= part of Itachi's.

By this, both have similarities.

No they don't..

Now, Izanagi effects the user's flow of chakra and brain.

No it doesn't. I just showed you Karin checking, herself, Sasuke, and Danzo's. No ones chakra flow was effected. Izanagi works like In'yōton, nothing more or less

KA will do the same if its used on the user.

KA will not Izanagi

Sasuke casted Tsukuyomi on Danzo, thus Danzo is under influence of 2 Genjutsu. 1, being his own (Izanagi), and the other being Tsukuyomi.

Same as above. Danzo isn't under a genjutsu, this jutsu was explained that it works like Genjutsu from Obito, to dumb it down on how it works. He further explains the jutsu in more depth when fighting Konan.

He was not affected by it at all.

He was still under it and canceled it, by activating his seal on Sasuke.

The same has happened with Edo Itachi.

You keep putting Izanagi in a Genjutsu category.

And you're wrong, Izanagi was originally used by the Uchiha clan in their battles. Itachi confirmed it.

O..k..

@EJblack: What I'm saying is that an EMS user's "trait" is perfect susanoo, take that away & you basically just got a MS user with no backlash.

Thats not true. Read peoples arguments whos defending them. They aren't lacking in anything to defeat them still

You are trying to apply scientific logic to Naruto in order to prove your point. Not how it works when you have no proof that's how Baku's suction works. Baku's abilities have already been highlighted and suction is the only one.

I just did prove it with the scan breaking down how the air circulation works. And how he can continuously suck without taking breaks/breaths. As soon as Sasuke stop it, both circulated points had stopped/dimmed. There is nothing wrong with using common sense.

-Cremating SA<<<<<<<<Destroying Susanoo.

Rivaling Summons<<<<<<<Destroying Susanoo.

Too bad I dont agree with some ABC logic. Especially the one where my premise was never stated to "destroy" Susanoo.

It not being weak doesn't mean it'll break Susanoo open.

Ok, got it. Being stronger doesn't give the same results when dealt with the weaker form, then when dealing with a stronger form entity.

It was either destroyed or Sasuke removed it, and the latter is unlikely. Concussive force doesn't magically remove Susanoo.

Stop. No way Suiton has shown to destroy it, Kishmoto makes sure to draw breakage/damage when dealing with Susanoo. Its a crucial feat in the manga.

You honestly want to believe Sasuke did @bold. For no apparent reason, Lying to yourself and using poor reasoning.

There is no magic in concussive force, your just making excusing for my premise to be incorrect. I am not going to go in circles with this reasoning.

They destroyed it with this attack.

1. If it was destroy then Susanoo would be shown destroyed, instead of a big entity flying across the land, next page. But one can say Ay broke the corner stone via back bone, making it useless to use for armor. Regardless both of us are speculating.

They destroyed it with this attack too. These examples are nothing but the Susanoo taking damage, then it being smashed against the ground finishes it off.

It took damage but hitting the floor doesn't destroy Susanoo.

Because it was destroyed. Not magically removed.

Stop with this magic crap.

I wont even bother with this point, for the Guy situation. I seen you respond to those thread, and having mix feelings about the situation.

Again, it was destroyed. Not magically removed.

Read that scan again, nothing was broken. It was slowly stripping off.

No.

On whos authority?

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Fuinjutsu nor Juinjutsu was EVER used on Susanoo. Jugo sent Senjutsu chakra into Susanoo. Which isn't Juinjutsu nor is it anywhere near Fuinjutsu, the same goes for Onoki, so the rest of your post is irrelevant.

No it isn't. My whole case explained that chakra CAN be send through Susanoo.

Which I gave two examples

Onoki= Send chakra through Susanoo. Results: The chakra added weight through the entity

Juugo-Send chakra through Susanoo. Results: The chakra responded and added Senjutsu though the entity.

To further elaborate on Juugo's case via Juinjutsu: Curse Mark is actuality Orochimaru's chakra seal. Juugo is the original source, thus when Juugo gave chakra, it responded to Sasuke's Heaven's Curse Seal Oroachimaru use to give him via comparability. There is no such things as CS levels to Juugo.

"Orochimaru: "Senjutsu is the source of Jugo's Curse mark.
And with Sasuke, when I experimentally injected Jugo's chakra into him, he immediately unleashed the Curse Mark...

...So it's not surprising at all that Sasuke's Susano'o would respond...
...To Jugo's chakra in similar fashion.

In short, I supposed you could call it a Senjutsu Susano'o."

All in All, chakra can be implanted to Susanoo.

Lets not mention that he needs to touch Susanoo for that, and he canonically got smashed in a second when he got too close, so this scenario can never happen.

Except the conditions enables:

1. A partner for support

2. Sushui's eye not being restricted

If he wants to live he'll need Izanagi active every second of this match.

Sure

-Arrows (Which Danzo canonically cannot evade) can be spammed.

No they can't(spam). They have cool-time through continuously creating the weapon. Plus Mokuton trajectory from any location other then his hands.

-Enton Magatama

Which has no speed feats like the arrows so the battle isn't ending once its used

These things will kill him with ease every time they are used. Hiruzen shouldn't even be mentioned from here on out since he doesn't stand a chance against Amaterasu or an arrow.

No they wont. Hiruzen can be mention as he has support, knowledge, and defensive jutsu to deal with them.