Proper Dazno/Hiruzen VS. EMS User Thread

[Brother Numpsay]

This is a 2 v 1 match, not both Madara and Sasuke.

Location: VOTE

Conditions:

-Danzo's cells have been tinkered by Kabuto, making Hashirama's cells effective as Madara's. He can only perform basic Mokuton restrain and Jukai Kōtan.

- Hiruzen is Edo (Madara has sealing tag).

- No Perfect Sussano (Madara can use unstablized)

- KA cannot be use on the opponent, their summonings only.

- Intel: None for Madara. Sasuke's is before he fought Danzo.

Begin.​

Danzo/Hiruzen High Diff to both opponents

 

[Penguin]

Madara gets raped. KA on the Kyuubi since he has no intel about Kotoamatsukami.

I don't know about Sasuke though. Sasuke could win.

 

[Unorthodox]

Sasuke stomps them

when madara relies kurama not acting right he chops its head off them proceeds to rape team one

 

[Penguin]

Sasuke stomps them

when madara relies kurama not acting right he chops its head off them proceeds to rape team one

Kurama = PS

That is Madara's statement. Adding Danzo and Hiruzen to Kurama means they beat Madara without PS mid/high diff.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Here is what I see, concerning/deal with Susanoo (since this is what is difficult to deal with the most).

It has already been established that juinjutsu/fuinjutsu can work on Susanoo, when Juugo send his chakra to Sasuke's[

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>

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](And the fact Onoki send chakra thorough Sussano, making the entity heavier[

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]). Danzo can use his Seal to paralyzed the entity. Unlike when he used it in the manga, he won't be wasting time getting in Sasuke's head, making him emotional (which was explained how he broke it the first time). Same can apply to Madara.

Thats not all, Hiruzen Suiton support can help aid by adding concussive force to the caster. Since it canonically happen already[

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] (P.S. Danzo can copy Hiruzen's Earth, Water, and Wind Release). With Either Wind Release adding more force for Water[

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], or just using twice the water (from any direction, blind spot, etc), can do the trick.

Susanoo users cannot stop this combo w/ these conditions: They have to deal with Hiruzen clone from one angle, Baku suction on the other, Danzo on the other, etc.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lol, Madara/Sasuke fodder stomps these clowns.

-The only thing that is a new factor for the old men is Hiruzen's Elemental Jutsu, and Danzo's Jukai Kotan. Jukai Kotan isn't strong enough to get past

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,

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or

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Susanoo. So once these levels of Susanoo come out, Jukai Kotan becomes a non factor along with any form of Mokuton Danzo possess.

-Baku is shitted on by Enton (Sasuke) or Katon (Madara) like it was in canon.

-All Wind Jutsu are useless since they are too weak to get past Susanoo, and Enton or Katon will turn them back on the old men.

Susanoo can take Kirin so, higher levels that what took Kirin easily, and effortlessly tank any Elemental Jutsu Hiruzen has.


MS Sasuke was able to pressure Danzo enough to counter Izanagi, EMS Sasuke and EMS Madara have stamina that puts MS Sasuke's too shame and similar, but better movesets. Izanagi is a non issue here.


-Susanoo tears through whatever defense they set up, pastes Hiruzen, and then forces Danzo to use up Izanagi and then they finish him off.


Sasuke low diff.

Madara, low diff.

 

[Bronze]

Madara gets raped. KA on the Kyuubi since he has no intel about Kotoamatsukami.

I don't know about Sasuke though. Sasuke could win.

He will just overwrite the Genjutsu with his own, thus cancel it.

Madara or Sasuke rapes those grandpas.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Madara gets raped. KA on the Kyuubi since he has no intel about Kotoamatsukami.

I don't know about Sasuke though. Sasuke could win.

The kyuubi has no mind while madara's controlling it, so KA implanting a suggesting is unlikely. Assuming KA even works to break madara's control, madara simply hypnotizes the kyuubi again... It's his summoning.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

-The only thing that is a new factor for the old men is Hiruzen's Elemental Jutsu, and Danzo's Jukai Kotan. Jukai Kotan isn't strong enough to get past

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,

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or

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Susanoo. So once these levels of Susanoo come out, Jukai Kotan becomes a non factor along with any form of Mokuton Danzo possess.

Jukai Kotan was never suppose to be use offensively anyway, so using it to defeat Susanoo is a useless point.

-Baku is shitted on by Enton (Sasuke) or Katon (Madara) like it was in canon.

It could happen if you are thinking Danzo is dumb enough to use the same strategy. Especially with a more effective strategy I mention post #5.

2nd: The way Baku jutsu works when it opens its mouth and inhales, it can create a powerful suction that sucks in everything within a large radius, while at the same time exhaling through its trunk.

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I underlined Inhales for a reason. This plays a factor on how this jutsu works, it explains how Baku is continuously using the suction, when at the same time, explains where it exits. So logically speaking, by reversing the function of the jutsu Baku is able to blow out a power gust of wind to push away anything in its radius. By simply using his Trunk to Inhale all the air and his mouth to Exhale, making the "Exit" way.

So, depending on the Katon level, it will grow stronger on the opposite direction. If overpowered you still have other angles from other attacks I mentions #5

-All Wind Jutsu are useless since they are too weak to get past Susanoo,

Considering Danzo can copy Futon scale from Hiruzen+Hashirama life support, I am pretty sure Danzo's Futon should do damage for even larger scale Susanoo. It still wouldn't effectively beat Susanoo, but can still leave open doors. Regardless this shouldn't be the route to take, but what I mention in #5

Enton or Katon will turn them back on the old men.

If they are stupid enough to clash together. Hiruzen perceptual and Danzo precog wouldn't make stupid mistakes.

Susanoo can take Kirin so, higher levels that what took Kirin easily, and effortlessly tank any Elemental Jutsu Hiruzen has.

Except Hiruzen shouldnt be focusing on damage output but concussive output, that can canonically strip Sussanoo away from the users.

MS Sasuke was able to pressure Danzo enough to counter Izanagi, EMS Sasuke and EMS Madara have stamina that puts MS Sasuke's too shame and similar, but better movesets. Izanagi is a non issue here.

Izanagi will not be use for the battle of outlasting the opponent, but to abuse the caster's destiny/destination point for effective counter / openings.

-Susanoo tears through whatever defense they set up, pastes Hiruzen, and then forces Danzo to use up Izanagi and then they finish him off.

Easier then it sounds

The kyuubi has no mind while madara's controlling it, so KA implanting a suggesting is unlikely. Assuming KA even works to break madara's control, madara simply hypnotizes the kyuubi again... It's his summoning.

Assuming Madara can overpower KA, when Itachi couldn't

 

[Bronze]

Assuming Madara can overpower KA, when Itachi couldn't

Actually, Itachi knew he was under KA, and he didn't break it because he was the one who cast the Genjutsu on himself. The power from KA doesn't come from its raw power. It comes from its ability to manipulate the victim unnoticed. Since Madara can see chakra flow disturbance through his Sharingan, he will know Kurama is under effects of Genjutsu, and will use his own.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Actually, Itachi knew he was under KA, and he didn't break it because he was the one who cast the Genjutsu on himself. The power from KA doesn't come from its raw power. It comes from its ability to manipulate the victim unnoticed. Since Madara can see chakra flow disturbance through his Sharingan, he will know Kurama is under effects of Genjutsu, and will use his own.

And you would think a recharge of 10 years makes it that simple... While Sound Genjutsu and Sasuke's Sharingan:Genjutsu didn't disturb it in the slightest

 

[Europa]

Sasuke wins.

 

[Bronze]

And you would think a recharge of 10 years makes it that simple... While Sound Genjutsu and Sasuke's Sharingan:Genjutsu didn't disturb it in the slightest

Except those Genjutsu's purpose isn't to overwrite KA. Sound Genjutsu was used to paralyze him through the ears. Sasuke's Genjutsu was to break him from the sound Genjutsu. My premise is KA being overwritten by Madara's Genjutsu.

 

[Conspirator.]

Using ka on the kyuubi is really stupid, since madara would just break him out of it and resume control.
@Dimitri Rascalov
Your sigs hilarious....XD

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Except those Genjutsu's purpose isn't to overwrite KA. Sound Genjutsu was used to paralyze him through the ears. Sasuke's Genjutsu was to break him from the sound Genjutsu. My premise is KA being overwritten by Madara's Genjutsu.

No but these genjutsu work like every other genjutsu that manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain. All of these Genjutsu attacks the brain meaning Itachi was being hit with multiple Genjutsu.

Making a statement that Madara can simply over right Shisui's needs some proof

Using ka on the kyuubi is really stupid, since madara would just break him out of it and resume control.
@Dimitri Rascalov
Your sigs hilarious....XD

The same can be said for Danzo if it was that simple

 

[Bronze]

No but these genjutsu work like every other genjutsu that manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain. All of these Genjutsu attacks the brain meaning Itachi was being hit with multiple Genjutsu.

Making a statement that Madara can simply over right Shisui's needs some proof

Did you see Sasuke's Tsukuyomi have any effect on Izanagi, another Genjutsu? No. It was the same thing with Danzo. He used Izanagi on himself, and was struck by Sasuke' Tsukuyomi, and it had no effect. KA was cast on the user himself, thus any external Genjutsu wont have an effect on an internal Genjutsu.

 

[Misconception]

Didn't bother to read the op i just have 1 question is anything from the EMS users arsenal restricted???

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Did you see Sasuke's Tsukuyomi have any effect on Izanagi, another Genjutsu? No. It was the same thing with Danzo. He used Izanagi on himself, and was struck by Sasuke' Tsukuyomi, and it had no effect. KA was cast on the user himself, thus any external Genjutsu wont have an effect on an internal Genjutsu.

Um...... Huh? Where do I even begin? Does Izanagi disrupt Sasuke chakra flow[

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]No? This isn't a good example to proof your point.

Didn't bother to read the op i just have 1 question is anything from the EMS users arsenal restricted???

They can't use there strongest Susanoo form via PS

 

[KidGamer65]

2nd: The way Baku jutsu works when it opens its mouth and inhales, it can create a powerful suction that sucks in everything within a large radius, while at the same time exhaling through its trunk.

Ok.

I underlined Inhales for a reason. This plays a factor on how this jutsu works, it explains how Baku is continuously using the suction, when at the same time, explains where it exits. So logically speaking, by reversing the function of the jutsu Baku is able to blow out a power gust of wind to push away anything in its radius. By simply using his Trunk to Inhale all the air and his mouth to Exhale, making the "Exit" way.

Lol, stop right there. When you can get me anything that implies Baku's exhalation is as strong as its inhalation then we can talk. Until then, its nothing but fanfiction.

Considering Danzo can copy Futon scale from Hiruzen+Hashirama life support, I am pretty sure Danzo's Futon should do damage for even larger scale Susanoo. It still wouldn't effectively beat Susanoo, but can still leave open doors. Regardless this shouldn't be the route to take, but what I mention in #5

No, it won't. Hiruzen's Fuuton is too weak to do anything notable to any of the Susanoo mentioned in my post, and Hashirama's cells don't power up Ninjutsu.

If they are stupid enough to clash together. Hiruzen perceptual and Danzo precog wouldn't make stupid mistakes.

If they ever use it, there will be nothing stopping Sasuke or Madara from Madara retaliating with Enton/Katon.

Except Hiruzen shouldnt be focusing on damage output but concussive output, that can concially strip Sussanoo away from the users.

Strong enough attacks on the weak enough level of Susanoo is what causes it to be destroyed. Concussive force is nothing but more nonsense you pulled out of your arse.

-Nothing he has can destroy Susanoo so Susanoo will stand even after he attacks it.

Izanagi will not be use for the battle of outlasting the opponent, but to abuse the caster's destiny/destination point for effective counter / openings.

Either way, if he's using it all they need to pressure him, since as long as its up they can't permanently kill him.

 

[Bronze]

Um...... Huh? Where do I even begin? Does Izanagi disrupt Sasuke chakra flow[

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>

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]No? This isn't a good example to proof your point.

What does Sasuke's chakra have anything to do with my point? Izanagi works on the same principle as KA. Its used on the user himself, just like Itachi used it on himself. Sasuke's own Genjutsu, when used it on Danzo had no effect on Izanagi, even though Genjutsu would effect the brain and chakra flow.