Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside)

vandell

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Team Mizukage vs Team Tsuchikage

As with my previous thread is a new variation in my Kage vs Kage Threads by including any shinobi that are Akatsuki or Jinchurikis and pairing them with a Kages/Sannins to create more diversity and strategic play in fights.

This is a thread highlighting the strength of Kisame and the Second Mizukage but unlike my other threads it has no bias, and is therefore showing why either team could win. Simply you just ignore the title as I wrote it that way for people to recognize it was one of my threads.









Strengths and Weaknesses of the Mizukage's Hozuki Transformation

Strengthened by Water techniques as they increase the overall volume of the user of the technique.

Immunity to Wind Techniques as they only work if of a massive magnitude against a increased volume Hozuki user.

Immunity to Earth Techniques as they are solid and usually require the user to hit the opponent directly. Earth traps will also fail as the user can simply seep out of the technique.

Immunity to most fire techniques as the Water > Fire nature of things, but there are exceptions for certain fire techniques and fire release users.

Immunity to Lightning Techniques in his Oil Based Transformation due to oil being a natural insulator meaning he can theoretically eliminate all of this Jutsu’s weaknesses.

Weakness against very strong fire techniques as the intensity means the user evaporates the user or simply overwhelms the water based technique.

Severe Weakness against lightning when he is in his Water Based form as the whole user becomes a liquid (impure water) means that the Di-Charged nature of water (containing both positive and negative minerals) means that it conducts electricity so dangerous and efficiently means the user is electrocuted over and over as they are a complete circuit.

Combined Tactics for Kisame and the Second Mizukage​

-Fusion Mode Sensory abilities + Heat Sensing Clam
This would act as a perfect counter to Muu's invisibility as the Mizukage's clam would sense the heat generated by the Second's body (can't eliminate that) and Kisame's heightened senses would immediately detect his Chakra due to Samehada's natural affinity with it.

-Great Shark Water Bullet + Large Scale Mizukage Water Tech
Kisame and the Mizukage can also combine both of their most powerful projectile water based attacks by fueling Kisame's Great Shark water bullet meaning once it eats through the chakra of the Mizukage's greatest water technique it would become literally unstoppable even against Kakuzu's wind infused fire release techniques meaning it could potentially One hit K.O Kakuzu with Muu being forced to split.

-Steaming Danger Tyranny + Clam Genjutsu
The Mizukage could also activate his infinite exploding clone then immediately use his Clam Genjutsu on Kakuzu once Muu goes into the skies or purses Kisame effectively momentarily making the odds 2 vs 1, giving them enough time to overwhelm Muu by catching him in a Water Prison then returning to Kakuzu once the Tsuchikage has been killed.

-Final Resort:Water Prison Jutsu + Hydrification Technique
This can be used as a combined final resort/trump card technique by Kisame and the Mizukage in which Kisame uses his Water Prison Jutsu while fusing with Samehada, then allowing the Mizukage to merge with the Water Prison creating a sentient body of water to support Kisame while he drowns Kakuzu and Muu whilst simultaneously attacking them to speed it up.

It would also make the Mizukage immense in size being able to tank Kakuzu's largest fire techniques without much difficulty then catching him in the immense prison (by moving towards him) and allowing Kisame to devour him.

Combined Tactics for Kakuzu and the Second Tsuchikage

-Aerial Support from Large Scale Water Techniques
Muu could use his ability of flight in conjunction with his large scale Earth techniques to create a wall(s) large enough to endure Kisame's largest water techniques.

This would be useful for Kakuzu as the height of the terrain could be warped so that he's above them giving him optimum conditions to bombard them with elemental attacks.

-Dust Release + Large Scale Elemental Attacks
Muu could use Dust Release in conjunction with Kakuzu's 4 Hearts separated from him to overwhelm the opponents with these attacks eventually resulting in them to be forced into situtions where either Kakuzu or Muu would land a direct hit.

Kakuzu's Fire Release volleys would be devastating for the Mizukage as it would only increase his dehydration level, reduce his performance level meaning he could easily be hit by one of Muu's Jintons.

-Earth Technique: Iron Skin Hardening + Quake of Large Boulders
Kakuzu can also harden his skin to its utmost limits and when combined with his Earth Grudge Transformation he is a force to be reckoned with as his thousnads of threads can be used as a long range method to restrain Kisame and the Second Mizukage then allow Muu to drop immense rocks on all of them with Kakuzu being able to tank the boulders with the other two being crushed.

To ensure this method works Kakuzu could leave one of his hearts separate from him so if all of his hearts are indeed crushed it can re-enter his body and revive him.

-Final Resort: Terrain Warping Earth Techniques + Earth Grudge Fear
As a final resort Kakuzu could enter his Earth Grudge Fear integrating all of his hearts and masks into his body combined with Muu warping the terrain on a large scale with Earth Release techniques meaning the Mizukage and Kisame would have to avoid landing for extended periods of time.

This is made worse by Kakuzu would constantly pursue them from a distance and use elemental volleys to limit their movements with each attack that narrowly misses the Mizukage having the added effect of furthering his dehydration and ultimately lowering his performance.

His black threads could also be used to attempt to capture them while his masks act independently on his shoulders.

best thread I ever read on this site wow! great job + rep x a 100 for keeping it 200 with a real a s s thread this is how you do it, you should work for nike lol
 

Zayon Uchiha

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

best thread I ever read on this site wow! great job + rep x a 100 for keeping it 200 with a real a s s thread this is how you do it, you should work for nike lol
I agree this is a pretty good thread
 

nj tandi

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

NP,

I think if Kakuzu can electrify the water around Kisame then it should stall him, and give him enough shock, for Kakuzu to trap him with his string or deliver a lethel blow, His Raiton gian is a powerful Jutsu which took Kakashi, a raiton user himself to use an S rank Jutsu (Raikiri) in both hand's to cancel out, so chances are slim that Kisame can tank it, and then live to do something else.
Exactly, he only need to slow kisame down.
Either that, or the shock would force kisame to lose the dome, and with that removing the only way for team kisame to win. however, I don't know the science behind kisames techniques, but just about every other caracters in naruto has lost their jutsus when hit. For example naruto looses his kage bunshins when the main body i hit
Why are you assuming Kisame has to take on Kakuzu?To counter the lighting disadvantage,and with his clam genjutsu,the Mizukage would be a better match.

One might argue that Muu's invisibility would more or less force Kisame into defense,perhaps in a water dome.
However,Muu's invisibility is derived from his changing and bending of light within hos vicinity using his chakra.A mass of water,which moves and splits(into droplets of varying size would refract light in different directions Now,bending of light is easy enough to do in air,but to do it taking into account the deviations produced by the water composed of droplets of various sizes,shapes and orientations,would be difficult task indeed.If Muu uses jinton to destroy the water,his position is revealed anyway,and Kisame can strike while the jinton is being executed.Also one must note that Kisame has larger chakra reserves than Muu,so his water water cannot be indefinitely Jinton-ed away.
 
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raju22

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Why are you assuming Kisame has to take on Kakuzu?To counter the lighting disadvantage,and with his clam genjutsu,the Mizukage would be a better match.

One might argue that Muu's invisibility would more or les Kisame to defense,perhaps in a water dome.
However,Muu's invisibility is derived from his changing and bending of light within hos vicinity using his chakra.A mass of water,which moves and splits(into droplets of varying size would refract light in different directions Now,bending of light is easy enough to do in air,but to do it taking into account the deviations produced by the water composed of droplets of various sizes,shapes and orientations,would be difficult task indeed.If Muu uses jinton to destroy the water,his position is revealed anyway,and Kisame can strike while the jinton is being executed.Also one must note that Kisame has larger chakra reserves than Muu,so his water water cannot be indefinitely Jinton-ed away.
LOL, it is very easy, Muu can fly out of Kisame's water dome but kisame can not follow him since he can not fly, then all Muu need is a single large Jinton to disintegrate Kisame along with his jutsu.
 

Zayon Uchiha

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

LOL, it is very easy, Muu can fly out of Kisame's water dome but kisame can not follow him since he can not fly, then all Muu need is a single large Jinton to disintegrate Kisame along with his jutsu.
Impressive response :)
 

Kira was Righteous

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Read through it didnt see a counter for Mu flying in the air and spamming dust release i mean probably they would be able to hit him with a technique and he has no preta path but still i dont believe team 1 would win purely because of Mu abilties

Ill have a think on it
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Who ever said Kakuzu would be able to use lightning in the water dome. Is retarded, why in the hell would he shock himself. Kakuzu will get his ass destroyed in the dome. I bet y'all forgot about Kisame's giant shark bullet that gets larger as attacks hit it. How will the amazing Kakuzu get past that.
 

Lordofd100x

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Im not sure if the majority repping this thread are kids, but it seriously seems like it. You cant be the slightest bit sure who would win between these two groups, personally though I think your right but to think you have facts to back it up is just... stupid
 

edo x edo

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Im not sure if the majority repping this thread are kids, but it seriously seems like it. You cant be the slightest bit sure who would win between these two groups, personally though I think your right but to think you have facts to back it up is just... stupid
Why are you reading a vs-thread then?
No one has any evidence in any fight besides from those already fought in the manga, we can only guess and discuss based on what we do know and think we know, and that is exactly what we are doing.
Would you have every single post to begin with:
"Nothing is certain and I'm only guessing but..."

Be realistic would you, after all it's only a manga and this is only a discussion
 

edo x edo

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Read through it didnt see a counter for Mu flying in the air and spamming dust release i mean probably they would be able to hit him with a technique and he has no preta path but still i dont believe team 1 would win purely because of Mu abilties

Ill have a think on it
Kisame really haven't shown anything yet, with which he can hit Muu that high in the air, unless he can make his water fly, and fly really, really fast.
2nd mizukage has his steam-bomb and water bullets, but they have fought before and I dont think Muu will be hit that easy. 4 of kakuzus hearts can fly aswell, thats 5 vs. 1 if the fight takes to the sky, even though i don't think that scenario is gonna happen, but still...
And I don't believe anyone think Muu is just going to "spam jintons", at least i don't hope anyne think so, he can't have THAT much chakra:D
 
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raju22

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Who ever said Kakuzu would be able to use lightning in the water dome. Is retarded, why in the hell would he shock himself. Kakuzu will get his ass destroyed in the dome. I bet y'all forgot about Kisame's giant shark bullet that gets larger as attacks hit it. How will the amazing Kakuzu get past that.

Have you completely lost your mind, Kakuzu can survive being killed 4 time's so he would not mind getting his ass destroyed if he can take Kisame with him.

His great shark bullet can cover only a single direction while Kakuzu can attack from 5 different direction with different elements, read the manga before opening your mouth, the only retard here is you.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Ok, let me reiterate. Kisame can absorb any chakra based ninjutsu to a point, as long as he is in contact with the jutsu. The difference between him and Preta Path is that he can only absorb a certain amount at a time, if the attack surpasses that limit (about 6 tails of bijuu chakra) then the remainder will hurt him. Preta Path is just a bottomless pit of chakra absorbtion.

And for those of you using this

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As a reason as to what Kisame can or cannot take, first of all, Samehada DID absorb the chakra from the flames, but also remember, that is JUST Samehada. Kisame himself has the ability to absorb chakra, with or without Samehada. When fused with Samehada, he can absorb more chakra at a time. As a result, a raiton attack electrifying the water WOULD be absorbed by him, and any damage done to him would just be repaired very quicky and easily using the chakra absorbed. So for all intents and purposes, raiton attacks on the water dome would be a failure AGAINST KISAME. The second Mizukage on the other hand would most likely get hurt, but Kisame can use the chakra he absorbs to replenish the strength of the Mizukage.
Can you link to me where he absorbed chakra by himself without Samehada? I know he holds a lot of chakra and his stamina is out the roof, but he can absorb chakra without Samehada?
 

raju22

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Can you link to me where he absorbed chakra by himself without Samehada? I know he holds a lot of chakra and his stamina is out the roof, but he can absorb chakra without Samehada?

I think he was talking about this particular incident...

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But as you can see that he is absorbing chakra from a person's body by physical contact, Kisame can not absorb a direct Elemental Ninjutsu as i have proven in my previous post's.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

I think he was talking about this particular incident...

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But as you can see that he is absorbing chakra from a person's body by physical contact, Kisame can not absorb a direct Elemental Ninjutsu as i have proven in my previous post's.
So what if Kakuzu stretches his arm, catches Kisame, slams him on the ground, will Kisame absorb his chakra? via physical contact
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

I think he was talking about this particular incident...

You must be registered for see images

But as you can see that he is absorbing chakra from a person's body by physical contact, Kisame can not absorb a direct Elemental Ninjutsu as i have proven in my previous post's.
But I'm pretty sure Samehada absorbed the fire in Itachi's fire attack. Regardless of whether it hurt or not, the flames WERE partially absorbed. And when fused with Kisame, the absorbtion abilities are enhanced, along with the fact that Kisame has the ability to tank a jutsu such as a raiton attack. In the dome, Kakuzu also WOULD shock himself, which mean's he wouldn't be able to counter Kisame if Kisame in fact DOES get shocked. And of course, if Kakuzu tries to wrap Kisame in his tentacles, Kisame will suck him dry.

So what if Kakuzu stretches his arm, catches Kisame, slams him on the ground, will Kisame absorb his chakra? via physical contact
Yes, he can absorb chakra in that manner.
 

raju22

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

But I'm pretty sure Samehada absorbed the fire in Itachi's fire attack. Regardless of whether it hurt or not, the flames WERE partially absorbed. And when fused with Kisame, the absorbtion abilities are enhanced, along with the fact that Kisame has the ability to tank a jutsu such as a raiton attack. In the dome, Kakuzu also WOULD shock himself, which mean's he wouldn't be able to counter Kisame if Kisame in fact DOES get shocked. And of course, if Kakuzu tries to wrap Kisame in his tentacles, Kisame will suck him dry.



Yes, he can absorb chakra in that manner.

That fireball was a c rank jutsu and Samehadha could not tank it, only thing that happened was it provided very little room for bee, Kakuzu's Raiton Gian is a B rank jutsu and its power LVL is much more that that of a fireball jutsu, If kisame fuse with Samehadha could absorb chakra in the water dome he could have absorbed Bee's chakra clock without physical contact, and if he could absorb chakra from a direct Ninjutsu attack then he would have absorbed Bee's Ink creation which is a low LVL defensive jutsu.

Kakuzu can deliver a killing blow to himself if he can kill Kisame with him, he can be revived but kisame can not.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

That fireball was a c rank jutsu and Samehadha could not tank it, only thing that happened was it provided very little room for bee, Kakuzu's Raiton Gian is a B rank jutsu and its power LVL is much more that that of a fireball jutsu, If kisame fuse with Samehadha could absorb chakra in the water dome he could have absorbed Bee's chakra clock without physical contact, and if he could absorb chakra from a direct Ninjutsu attack then he would have absorbed Bee's Ink creation which is a low LVL defensive jutsu.

Kakuzu can deliver a killing blow to himself if he can kill Kisame with him, he can be revived but kisame can not.

Eh, I see where you're coming from, and it makes sense.

To your last part however, I doubt a killing blow to one of Kakuzu's hearts equals a killing blow to Kisame. I mean, Kisame tanked a noon tiger, and didn't die. I can't think of very many shinobi would would not have died from that. So clearly, it would take a lot more than a raiton attack in water to kill Kisame.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Draw cause 2nd mizukage and Muu both died fighting each other.
kisame=kakuzu but if anything I would give the edge to kakuzu team I thing when pair with anyone he is better at team work
 
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