Proof that Kamui Bends Time

Kyno

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Let's begin. First off is we have to recognize, if we haven't already, that when tobi uses s/t ninjutsu to transport himself, he uses kamui.

Ok, now we must understand how the kamui dimension works. If we look at the chapter where it is revealed how kakashi's kunai which he sent through kamui (No, I will not be providing chapters), you can see that the exact place where kakshi sent the kunai through was where it ended up in the kamui dimension relative to tobi's mask. This means that the kamui dimension exist parallel to the real dimension, meaning that for every point in the real world there exist a parallel point in the kamui dimension.

Ok, now we must understand how the kamui ability works in terms of space. This part is simple: it is not possible for kamui to move objects to any part of the kamui dimension, aside from the direct parallel points in the kamui dimension that correspond with the points in the real world. Or at least tobi and kakashi do not have this ability. That is confusing phrasing, so I will give an example. When naruto used the rasengan on tobi's arm, the place where tobi's arm became invisible was the same distance away from naruto's rasengan in both the real world and the kamui dimension. If tobi could change the place where what he transported in kamui went, then he could just move where in the kamui dimension his arm was placed, which would completely evade the attacks. The fact that he doesn't do this is either he can't, he's too idiotic to have realized that he needs to do it (not probable of the tobi we know) or bad writing. If we remove the bad writing variable, it is reasonable to conclude that tobi cannot change the place where things he sends through the kamui dimension goes, and they just go naturally to the parallel points in the kamui dimension. We also know that this travel works both ways because of how Naruto's shadow clone came back through kamui, and was still in the area he had been absorbed, and not just in some random part of the world, seeing as how kakashi would have no way of preventing such a thing from happening if it could, because he doesn't know how it works, having just learned about it.

Now that we know transport to the kamui dimension is parallel, we simply have to deduce. If it is true, as we have proven, that kamui moves you to the exact parallel points of the real dimension to the kamui dimension and back, that means that when tobi uses his space time ninjutsu to transport himself to a new location, he first starts out by transporting himself to the parallel part of the kamui dimension. When he uses kamui to return to the real world, he must use it when he is at the point where he wants to return, because as we have proven, you return through parallel points as well. Which means that he has to travel through the kamui dimension to the point which he wants to go. But we know, or can assume beyond a reasonable doubt, that when tobi uses the kamui dimension to travel, he moves faster than if he were to just run to this point. Therefore it is logical to conclude that when tobi travels from point to point in the kamui dimension, it happens faster than if he were to do the same thing in the real world. The only logical conclusion to take from this information is that time passes faster in the kamui dimension than in the real world. It terms of time, it works the same way as how itachi manipulates time in his tsukyomi, except in the kamui dimension it is (probably) to a much smaller degree and is not controlled by tobi (I assume).

So tell me if I have a flaw in my logic, although I don't think I do. If you cannot find a flaw, then take the knowledge as true and then take into consideration that tobi could trained in this dimension in 6 minute intervals several times a day for years, and could have slightly increased his aging process by doing so, having much more time to train and become stronger.

If you don't understand, dont just flame and say this is wrong. Ask for help understanding, and I or another person who does understand can explain it to you.
 

JiraiyaSensei

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well if he actually is obito and has - as someone else suggested - awakened the mangekyo after giving up his eye to kakashi and being left to die, then your theory could explain how it was possible that he was already grown when he fought minato not long after the incident

so it would actually resolve that plothole (of course it could just as easily still have been the real madara at that time wearing that tobi mask)
 

Kyno

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well if he actually is obito and has - as someone else suggested - awakened the mangekyo after giving up his eye to kakashi and being left to die, then your theory could explain how it was possible that he was already grown when he fought minato not long after the incident

so it would actually resolve that plothole (of course it could just as easily still have been the real madara at that time wearing that tobi mask)
Well but then you would have to find out how madara had obito's eye, if madara had obito's eye.
 

Anub

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If I were to give a forced explanation as to how Obito managed to become strong enough to face Minato and look that old, I would say that his other dimension is equivalent to the "hyperbolic time chamber" in DBZ. So yes, I would agree with your theory there.
 

ObitobiLoL

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Chapter 520, shows Danzos body guards being warped out of Obitos dimension. We can assume that they have spent some time in the dimension from the fight with danzo, until now when Obito asks kabuto to show him how the impure world works. If you look at when they are summoned they show no signs of aging. This infact shows that the dimension may not play a role in aging at all, however...We are not sure of how long of the events from Danzo to Kabuto showing Obito the impure technique is.

So no I do not think Obito can age, but I still have a huge belief that its Madara, for godsakes the man has rinnigan, why wouldn't it possible that he had S\T.
 

Kyno

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Chapter 520, shows Danzos body guards being warped out of Obitos dimension. We can assume that they have spent some time in the dimension from the fight with danzo, until now when Obito asks kabuto to show him how the impure world works. If you look at when they are summoned they show no signs of aging. This infact shows that the dimension may not play a role in aging at all, however...We are not sure of how long of the events from Danzo to Kabuto showing Obito the impure technique is.

So no I do not think Obito can age, but I still have a huge belief that its Madara, for godsakes the man has rinnigan, why wouldn't it possible that he had S\T.
Well they were in there for nomore than 2 months, so whether time is like 2 or even 8 times faster in thar dimension, an adult doesn't change that much over even a year. So you can't use that to determine its aging process. If the were left in there for a lot longer then you could use that as a determining factor. You can't use at most a yearof time totell I someone looksdifferent. All the Leaf sensei look exactly the same I they did in the original naruto as they do in naruto shippuden. So they might actually have aged a year.
 

romaine18

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I agree with most of what you said, as it already has been theorized by someone else not long ago. However I'd have to disagree with your assumption that kamui also permits time travel.

Distance between points A and C = Distance Between points B and D
For instance:
Object A traveled through the real world only from point A to C while object B traveled through dimension B from points C to D.
Object B arrives at D before object A arrives at C.
This could be due to either:
-The speed of object B could have been accelerated by travel through dimension B
or
-Object A could have decelerated

As for the whole -time bending- part, that's just your imagination running too wild. The only difference here is a change in velocity.
 
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Kyno

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I agree with most of what you said, as it already has been theorized by someone else not long ago. However I'd have to disagree with your assumption that kamui also permits time travel.

Distance between points A and C = Distance Between points B and D
For instance:
Object A traveled through the real world only from point A to C while object B traveled through dimension B from points C to D.
Object B arrives at D before object A arrives at C.
This could be due to either:
-The speed of object B could have been accelerated by travel through dimension B
or
-Object A could have decelerated

As for the whole -time bending- part, that's just your imagination running too wild. The only difference here is a change in velocity.
Well if there was a change in velocity would need to be invoked by something. Your scenario can also be explained by a difference in the rate at which time goes, which is just as valid. And if you wanted to be technical, it has been scientifically proven that time moves faster when you do. There were 2 completely calibrated clocks, but one was staying still and one was in a car going at 100 miles an hour. After one minute, the time on the clock in the car was fractions of a second past one minute while the still clock was exactly at one minute. And at any rate, if there were a change in velocity, it would be new to naruto and he would probably lose focus and not be able to control his rasengan. And on top of that, when tobi's in the dimension with nagato's body, he does not seem to be moving at an accelerated pace. So unless your just gonna say that was for the stories sake, which isn't a variable that you can use when making concrete theories, then you have to assume that from tobi's perspective he is moving at the same pace as he usually would, for that is how it was visually described to us. This means that your theory is actually incorrect, and my theory has yet to be proven so. Because also in your theory you failed to provide why my theory is wrong, and only gave a different theory, which actually turned out to be improbable.
 

Kyno

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As for this whole deal about aging. That is utter nonsense. The only thing revealed thus far about the kamui dimension is its parallelism to the real world as far as coordinates. You guys really should stop assuming things.
And you also assumed that the velocity had increased in your theory, and you based that off of just as much as I based my theory off of. And then I proved your theory invalid, making my theory stronger in the process. You can't talk about assuming after you assume
 

Sharingan Itachi

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Tobi's time travel is the key to unlock all mysteries, assuming that your theory is reasonable ( I think it is) and relying on the fact that Kamui's dimension is parallel to the real naruto world dimension the question which pops in every one's head is how does tobi teleport from a place to another?, I don't think the answer is that there is a difference or a variation in the time rolling process between the two dimensions because:
How does the shinobi being locked in Tobi's dimesion survive for example like Torune he should've died for many reasons like hunger for example.

Another questions is:
How does Tobi locate the moving targets that he wan't to travel to like for example when he located sasuke during the time he was heading to konoha and locating minato who teleported with his FTG, this locating process can't be done from the normal dimension because if he locates a moving target and teleports towards it he will actually appear at a place behind the current location of the target but Tobi actually appears before his targets.

So the only explanation of his time travel is that Tobi has somehow kind of control over his Kamui dimension which he locates his targets from and then teleport like super fast in his dimension towards the place parallel to the place of his target, or maybe in Kamui's dimension there are space time portals which teleports him the location parallel to his targets' in normal dimension.

Sorry if I didn't make it clearer.
 
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