Proof SM Jiraya is stronger than Itachi

[Bogard]

lol this shit again. itachi wouldn't use such move, but i know some fanboys that would say "totsukya dat ass" or face but here is something to prove my point.
itachi> orochimaru
orochimaru> jiraiya, thus for
itachi> jiraiya

ABC logic doesn't exist in this manga, or it will mean Gai is stronger than Bee and Kisame, Shikamaru stronger than Asuma, Shikaku stronger than Asuma and Haku, etc

Also, you stated that Amaterasu travels. How can you expect me to take a thread seriously when there's such a retarded misconception in there?

I didn't stated it travels, i proved it travels(with mangapages, it's manga fact). But well i know you are a fanboy so you won't probably accept it

 

[Blaze Release]

Where is it stated that Kabuto receives sennin chakra continuously?

Seriously? Meh ill give you this

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I didn't even need to upload that simply because kabuto has never remained still to gather nature energy from the start, and has stayed it in every since until orochimaru turned it off. You need to look though stuff some more, if you plan on creating such a thread

 

[VongolaX]

People are making big deal of Itachi's Tsukuyomi.. The fact about genjutsu still stands.. chakra disruption = Genjutsu over. They try to make stuff like "It affects the mind of the people and leaves it damaged.. thats only if you start getting scared like Kakashi.



Itachi : Jiraya > me (itachi)

You : Itachi > Jiraya

And where does the Oro > Jiraya come from?. Oro has shown nothing on his level.

Before shippuden jiraiya stated this to naruto (prob), if itachi beat oro than what stops him from killin jiraiya

 

[Bogard]

Seriously? Meh ill give you this

Spoiler

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I didn't even need to upload that simply because kabuto has never remained still to gather nature energy from the start, and has stayed it in every since until orochimaru turned it off. You need to look though stuff some more, if you plan on creating such a thread

Why do you think he was blablating with them at the begin of the fight, avoiding the fight with throwing snakes everywhere?

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It was to accumulate sennin mode chakra. It's never stated that he receives it continuously. The chakra he used in sennin mode is only the chakra he did accumulate before attacking. If he could enter Sage mode that easily he would not have needed to do all what he did

 

[VongolaX]

ABC logic doesn't exist in this manga, or it will mean Gai is stronger than Bee and Kisame, Shikamaru stronger than Asuma, Shikaku stronger than Asuma and Haku, etc

I didn't stated it travels, i proved it travels(with mangapages, it's manga fact). But well i know you are a fanboy so you won't probably accept it

if you read the first two sentences that i post, you'll see his defeat

 

[Owarij]

Cancellation effects don't work on Itachi's Tsukyomi.. That's made explicitely clear... Intake of natural energy will not break it... sage mode doesn't cancel genjutsu...

Ma and pa can never realize he's in a genjutsu faster than it takes Tsukyomi to end... long story short, your argument fell apart right there

Spoiler

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2nd part, Jiraya is aware that itachi has some ability utilizing black flames.. but not what it is, how it works, how fast it is , nothing... Basically, It's as useful as minato entering the fight with A and telling him "I hear you have a pretty fast attack" But then being shocked about how it actually was... not usefull at all...

You keep mentioning he has knowledge of it but he doesn't ... Nagato had knowledge of it.. Danzo had knowledge of it... They knew the presigns of it.. Having sensory skills alone will not make him aware that it is amaterasu being cast.... His sensory skills could barely pick up the fact that a pain was behind him, so do we know if he even has it?

If they are fighting in an enclosed area, Jiraya could capture him(Susanoo or not) in Iwagama's stomach like he already did in part1, or capture him in the toad gourd prison like he did against Pain

Totsuka sword in the stomach... It is a living creature and will get sealed

 

[Bogard]

Cancellation effects don't work on Itachi's Tsukyomi.. That's made explicitely clear... Intake of natural energy will not break it... sage mode doesn't cancel genjutsu...

Ma and pa can never realize he's in a genjutsu faster than it takes Tsukyomi to end... long story short, your argument fell apart right there

It doesn't work on tsukuyomi because the partner usually don't have time to react in time, but SM Jiraya is different since he receives sennin chakra continuously from Pa and Ma

 

[Blaze Release]

Why do you think he was blablating with them at the begin of the fight, avoiding the fight with throwing snakes everywhere?

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It was to accumulate sennin mode chakra. It's never stated that he receives it continuously. The chakra he used in sennin mode is only the chakra he did accumulate before attacking. If he could enter Sage mode that easily he would not have needed to do all what he did

I dont think you understand, thought that chapter made it clear.
Ill just relax and upload a wiki quote instead, perhaps that might sink in;

"After Orochimaru's sealing, Kabuto travelled across the world and ultimately discovered the location of the Ryūchi Cave. There, he was taught senjutsu by the White Snake Sage where he gained access to a Sage Mode. This, together with the research and self-modifications based on Jūgo's clan's abilities, also allows Kabuto to passively and continuously absorb natural energy without assistance, allowing him to potentially maintain his Sage Mode indefinitely. According to Kabuto, this meant that he was no longer a snake, but had instead transcended into a dragon.[43]"

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I didn't need to upload that because its clear that he took the abilities not only from the sound 5 but also team hawk apart from sasuke and if you can deduct the abilities of juuugo's clan, but also how the mofo can stay in sm so long its clear as day

 

[Kinimaster]

It doesn't work on tsukuyomi because the partner usually don't have time to react in time, but SM Jiraya is different since he receives sennin chakra continuously from Pa and Ma

Fail, get your facts straight, Kabuto received Tsukuyomi after Izanami, despite being passively receiving Sage chakra, so this also apply to Jiraiya while Ma and Pa do the same function.

"Like Toad Sage Mode, Snake Sage Mode has similar flaws in that moving too much would disable the user from drawing in natural energy and that remaining still to gather the needed energy leaves the user open to attack. However, for his Sage Mode, Kabuto assimilated the DNA of Jūgo to replicate his clan's ability to passively absorb natural energy, thus allowing him to continuously collect the energy even while moving."

Note the word passively: a passive trait continues to happen despite the condition of the user.

 

[Owarij]

It doesn't work on tsukuyomi because the partner usually don't have time to react in time, but SM Jiraya is different since he receives sennin chakra continuously from Pa and Ma

Omg, Receiving a constant flow of chakra is not = to chakra disruption , why do you people think that?, especially when it comes to sage mode and ma and pa... for sage mode to work you need balance

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A sudden surge of natural energy into jiraya will upset the balance needed to maintain sage mode and turn him into a frog

surge
noun /sərj/ 
surges, plural

A sudden powerful forward or upward movement, esp. by a crowd or by a natural force such as the waves or tide
If you want some definitions of surge

A powerful rush

A sudden marked increase in voltage or current in an electric circuit


Just getting this point across to you..... Not that it is needed since it's proven that a casual intake of natural energy doesn't end genjutsu - see kabuto vs itachi fight

 

[Bogard]

I dont think you understand, thought that chapter made it clear.
Ill just relax and upload a wiki quote instead, perhaps that might sink in;

"After Orochimaru's sealing, Kabuto travelled across the world and ultimately discovered the location of the Ryūchi Cave. There, he was taught senjutsu by the White Snake Sage where he gained access to a Sage Mode. This, together with the research and self-modifications based on Jūgo's clan's abilities, also allows Kabuto to passively and continuously absorb natural energy without assistance, allowing him to potentially maintain his Sage Mode indefinitely. According to Kabuto, this meant that he was no longer a snake, but had instead transcended into a dragon.[43]"

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I didn't need to upload that because its clear that he took the abilities not only from the sound 5 but also team hawk apart from sasuke and if you can deduct the abilities of juuugo's clan, but also how the mofo can stay in sm so long its clear as day

Well i don't think they are right then. Kabuto on the pic you posted in your previous post said "Juugo can absorb natural chakra". He never stated he was doing it continuously. There are many part in this fight where we see him immobile. Absorbing sennin chakra thanks to Juugo at that moment is easy

 

[Bogard]

Omg, Receiving a constant flow of chakra is not = to chakra disruption , why do you people think that?

It comes from Jiraya himself. Receiving chakra does disrupt chakra flow

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especially when it comes to sage mode and ma and pa... for sage mode to work you need balance

Spoiler

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A sudden surge of natural energy into jiraya will upset the balance needed to maintain sage mode and turn him into a frog

surge
noun /sərj/ 
surges, plural

A sudden powerful forward or upward movement, esp. by a crowd or by a natural force such as the waves or tide
If you want some definitions of surge

A powerful rush

A sudden marked increase in voltage or current in an electric circuit

Not really. That's why Pa and Ma are there, to disturb his chakra flow if it happens. You are completely misjudging and think that it's the same thing between Kabuto and Jiraya which is wrong since Kabuto has no partner to make him change his chakra flow continuously

 

[Owarij]

It comes from Jiraya himself. Receiving chakra does disrupt chakra flow

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Not really. That's why Pa and Ma are there, to disturb his chakra flow if it happens. You are completely misjudging and think that it's the same thing between Kabuto and Jiraya which is wrong since Kabuto has no partner to make him change his chakra flow continuously

Look what he tells naruto before that, he says the key words, you use more power to disrupt your chakra flow ... it applies to the unaffected ninja as well... you'll need that surge of chakra to disrupt that person's flow, and not just a constant balanced intake of chakra..... there is actually no disruption that takes place when ma and pa is on his shoulder... sage mode, physical energy, mental energy are all at complete balance

 

[Owarij]

Kabuto and Jiraya

Kabuto's body is constantly taking in natural energy due to Juugo's clan trait..

Jiraya's body is constantly taking in natural energy due to ma and pa being still on hmi..

whether or not it's ma an pa doing it, it's the same exact thing.. there is an external source of energy entering there bodies, and inside they are turning it into sage chakra

 

[Bogard]

Look what he tells naruto before that, he says the key words, you use more power to disrupt your chakra flow ... it applies to the unaffected ninja as well... you'll need that surge of chakra to disrupt that person's flow, and not just a constant balanced intake of chakra..... there is actually no disruption that takes place when ma and pa is on his shoulder... sage mode, physical energy, mental energy are all at complete balance

What he says concerning more power isn't the partner method but yourself trying to break the genjutsu. It's 2 thing different. Hachibi already proved how it was easy for him to let Bee free from a genjutsu as a partner and that happened in an instant. Replace Hachibi with Pa or Ma. Pa and Ma are Jiraya's partners here, simple. But what is even better in Jiraya's case is that he receives it continuously

 

[Owarij]

What he says concerning more power isn't the partner method but yourself trying to break the genjutsu. It's 2 thing different. Hachibi already proved how it was easy for him to let Bee free from a genjutsu as a partner and that happened in an instant. Pa and Ma are Jiraya partner here, simple

that happened in an instant, That was no instant.. if that's what you think a instant is, then here is where the problem lies.. you fail to understand how fast Tsukyomi starts and ends...... Bee got caught mid air and had enough time to think to himself that he was unable to move.. fell to the ground, and at that time we don't know when exactly he came out....
That isn't instant myfriend.... the very time it took bee to think " I can't....move.." tsukyomi would have already caused the trauma intended on him.. This is why kakashi said no Cancellation effects can work on Itachi's jutsu

Not two different things.. disrupting ones chakra takes a surge, whether from yourself or from a external person to do it.... Kabuto constantly getting a flow of chakra from nature is not disrupting his chakra...

Jiraya constantly getting a flow of chakra from ma and pa is not disrupting his chakraa

 

[Blaze Release]

Well i don't think they are right then. Kabuto on the pic you posted in your previous post said "Juugo can absorb natural chakra". He never stated he was doing it continuously. There are many part in this fight where we see him immobile. Absorbing sennin chakra thanks to Juugo at that moment is easy

Either trolling, cannot admit you are wrong or do not understand the manga.
How can everything spell it out to you that due to juugo's ability kabuto can constantly absorb natural energy and yet you deny it. Perhaps because it goes against your first point and you know it. It is however cannon from kabuto's fear of genjutsu even with senjutsu, along with him being trolled twice by genjutsu whilst in sennin mode to state that what you said in the your first point doesn't matter.

Kabuto can absorb it whilst moving, that is the ability that he gains from jugo's clan

I could then in turn further make it sink in by making you understand why naruto needed kage bunshin to stay in sm because the fox rejected pa frog when he tried to merge with naruto in order for him to be the person who gathers sage energy, but i will not because its clear you do not understand what you are talking about so ill leave now.

 

[Bogard]

Re: Proof SM Jiraya is stronger than Itachi
Originally Posted by Owarij

that happened in an instant, That was no instant.. if that's what you think a instant is, then here is where the problem lies.. you fail to understand how fast Tsukyomi starts and ends...... Bee got caught mid air and had enough time to think to himself that he was unable to move.. fell to the ground, and at that time we don't know when exactly he came out....
That isn't instant myfriend.... the very time it took bee to think " I can't....move.." tsukyomi would have already caused the trauma intended on him.. This is why kakashi said no Cancellation effects can work on Itachi's jutsu

Not two different things.. disrupting ones chakra takes a surge, whether from yourself or from a external person to do it.... Kabuto constantly getting a flow of chakra from nature is not disrupting his chakra...

Jiraya constantly getting a flow of chakra from ma and pa is not disrupting his chakraa

Well if it's thinking that you're talking about i can tell you that Kakashi had a long time to discuss with Itachi in his tsukuyomi. Do you realise that time is completely different in the genjutsu? Concerning the chakra flow, the main difference between Kabuto and Jiraya(and it's what i'm continuously saying) is that Kabuto has no partner. He takes sennin chakra to make it his own, point blank, but there is no constant chakra giving from a partner

Either trolling, cannot admit you are wrong or do not understand the manga.
How can everything spell it out to you that due to juugo's ability kabuto can constantly absorb natural energy and yet you deny it.

Where is it stated in the manga? It's all what i'm asking to you. If you can show me mangafacts i will admit i'm wrong, since it's not the case, all what you say is just speculation. Narutopedia can make errors. They are not Kishi assistant but fans like you and me

 

[Owarij]

Well if it's thinking that you're talking about i can tell you that Kakashi had a long time to discuss with Itachi in his tsukuyomi

It has been stated twice or so in the manga Itachi holds the ability to manipulate a victims perception of time


I Do hope you realize that time passes irl while he was there mid air after getting hit... you need to understand that Bee DID get affected... there was a moment a small window in which his body was immobile...

Next you need to understand that the moment tsukyomi hits, it's done.... the trauma is already applied... there jutsu is not continued like sasuke's was... but the effects are...

You cannot cancel something like that.. it's practically impossible

 

[Bogard]

It has been stated twice or so in the manga Itachi holds the ability to manipulate a victims perception of time


I Do hope you realize that time passes irl while he was there mid air after getting hit... you need to understand that Bee DID get affected... there was a moment a small window in which his body was immobile...

Next you need to understand that the moment tsukyomi hits, it's done.... the trauma is already applied... there jutsu is not continued like sasuke's was... but the effects are...

You cannot cancel something like that.. it's practically impossible

Well Killer-Bee is another debate. But in Jiraya's case, i still don't completely agree with your reasoning. Tsukuyomi takes effect in an instant, but SM Jiraya receives chakra every instant. Jiraya said that by receiving chakra from a partner it disturbs chakra, so why can't the fact SM Jiraya receives chakra stop tsukuyomi? Anyway since i don't want the debate to stay there, i will say that even if i were to agree with your statement, Jiraya still has other counters like simply staying out of the range of tsukuyomi or/and using KB or simply using long range attacks. Tsukuyomi is not automatic. Itachi also has to cast the jutsu and he must do that when there is a direct eye contact. Direct eye contact is still needed for tsukuyomi, which is not sure to happen. If Itachi turns his Sharingan to MS, Jiraya would be even more cautious