Prodigies/Geniuses don't get free power ups

[lndra]

Mind you in essence, a free power up or upgrade (sometimes even ass-pull) is commonly used term to show that a character received a power up (or upgrade).

Ass pulls usually refer to abilities/powers someone uses in a fight, that literally just appeared to fit the situation. You can decide that for yourself, I'm only going to show you the hypocritical thinking.

In advance though, I'm not bashing any of these talented ninjas. Only showing you that most strong or popular character, all have had their fair share of random power ups or ass-pull abilities.

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> Sasuke being forced Orochimaru's power against his will. Never overshadowed his talent or genius. In fact it only supplemented his power and showed why Sasuke was so talented in the first place.

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> Kakashi gaining Obito's Sharingan.

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> Itachi having Totsuka Blade + Yata Mirror was a completely random /ass-pull-ish/ power up that came with Susano'o as it was just being introduced to the readers. Yet, that didn't overshadow his talent either.

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> Minato having both Sage Mode and Kyuubi powers weren't something that was hinted at until they really happened. There was some hints, at least for Sage Mode. But it wasn't enough to actually state that he had the ability for sure.

Likewise for KCM/BM, which spawned out of his ass.



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I don't get where the idea that talented ninjas do not get their fair share of powers.

 

[Guitar Hero]

Almost every relevant character(powerwise) got a powerup early on.

Naruto(Kyuubi Chakra)

Sasuke(Curse Mark)

Kakashi(Sharingan)

Obito(Hashirama Cells)

2 of those 4 are prodigies and their powerups didnt diminish their talent. Im glad he got it early on so we can see him grow with the mark since it looks complety different than it does in the future.

 

[Sagebee]

True main characters get power ups periodically for plot and I don't think any of them were @$$pulls

 

[King Of Pop]

Him getting powers is not any sort downplay on his talent. not sure whos saying that

 

[lndra]

Him getting powers is not any sort downplay on his talent. not sure whos saying that

There were people mocking him saying that he was a talent less dunce cause he got a free power up :lol

 

[Dark Link]

As long as they don't pop up randomly for convenience of the story, I'm fine with it.

 

[Amenotejikara]

If it's generalized then yes they're all asspulls but then that would be pointless and apply to just about anyone. Which is also a problem with the word "genius", kishi labels just about anyone a genius. hell he had lee labelled as one just because he knew how to use the gates. Imo asspulls should apply to those has accomplish something that contradicts the manga or is very improbable even if explained. Minato accessing KCM I consider an asspull because 1. it makes naruto look very less unique all of sudden. 2. minato mastered it when he was dead, that's just stupid. What I don't consider an asspull is itachi's totsuka and yata, not because of what it do but because itachi always held back in prior fights in some way shape or form. I don't really see it convenient either except for maybe susanoo and totsuka to block kirin and seal orochi but there was no plot reason for him to need yata but even then sasuke at he reunion did say both he w/ orochi's help still couldn't defeat itachi and that was the same chapter he was prepared to use kirin. So kishi all the way back then already knew itachi had susanoo.

 

[SenseiSama]

Itachi's weapons were never an asspull, they're just part of his Susanoo like Sasuke's Enton blade and Madara's destruction incarnate.

 

[lndra]

Mb for the late reply

Itachi's weapons were never an asspull, they're just part of his Susanoo like Sasuke's Enton blade and Madara's destruction incarnate.

Sasuke's enton blade is a combination of using Susano'o with his already established Amaterasu. Comparing that to Yata Mirror/Totsuka blade is a reach.

If it's generalized then yes they're all asspulls but then that would be pointless and apply to just about anyone. Which is also a problem with the word "genius", kishi labels just about anyone a genius. hell he had lee labelled as one just because he knew how to use the gates. Imo asspulls should apply to those has accomplish something that contradicts the manga or is very improbable even if explained. Minato accessing KCM I consider an asspull because 1. it makes naruto look very less unique all of sudden. 2. minato mastered it when he was dead, that's just stupid. What I don't consider an asspull is itachi's totsuka and yata, not because of what it do but because itachi always held back in prior fights in some way shape or form. I don't really see it convenient either except for maybe susanoo and totsuka to block kirin and seal orochi but there was no plot reason for him to need yata but even then sasuke at he reunion did say both he w/ orochi's help still couldn't defeat itachi and that was the same chapter he was prepared to use kirin. So kishi all the way back then already knew itachi had susanoo.

But it doesn't make sense. Susano'o, there is leeway, but Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade?

Where exactly was it slightly hinted that he could use those abilities at all? And how ironic is that those abilities were used for the exact purpose he needed to save Sasuke with?

 

[SenseiSama]

Mb for the late reply

Sasuke's enton blade is a combination of using Susano'o with his already established Amaterasu. Comparing that to Yata Mirror/Totsuka blade is a reach.

Not really, Sasuke's Enton blade came from him being able to use Enton which came from him having Katon and Lightning affinity. On the other hand Totsuka comes from Itachi having genjutsu affinity hence why his blade puts the victim under a genjutsu.

And Yata Mirror is a reflection of his will to shield the ones he loves from danger just as Enton/Amaterasu is a reflection of Sasuke will to burn down his enemies and Konoha's past.

 

[lndra]

Not really, Sasuke's Enton blade came from him being able to use Enton which came from him having Katon and Lightning affinity. On the other hand Totsuka comes from Itachi having genjutsu affinity hence why his blade puts the victim under a genjutsu.

W-what? Enton is one of Sasuke's Mangekyo's abilities.

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I don't believe it was stated anywhere that Sasuke's affinity for Amaterasu comes from being a Katon and Lightning release user. Plus, based on that logic, Itachi's affinity for Genjutsu is clearly represented in Tsukuyomi.

But then again it wasn't stated why certain people have certain Mangekyo Abilities, and why others don't. Its just unique for each user without a real 'explanation'.

And Yata Mirror is a reflection of his will to shield the ones he loves from danger just as Enton/Amaterasu is a reflection of Sasuke will to burn down his enemies and Konoha's past.

Bro we know none of that exists in the Manga. It would of be cool if your theory was in the Manga, but because its a theory, you know deep down that Kishimoto just made those weapons out of the blue so that Itachi could do what he needed to do for plot.

Its the same thing with how Itachi suddenly has Izanami to stop Kabuto because ... well shit!

 

[Amenotejikara]

Mb for the late reply

Sasuke's enton blade is a combination of using Susano'o with his already established Amaterasu. Comparing that to Yata Mirror/Totsuka blade is a reach.


But it doesn't make sense. Susano'o, there is leeway, but Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade?

Where exactly what is slightly hinted that he could use those abilities at all? And how ironic is that those abilities were used for the exact purpose he needed to save Sasuke with?

And what exactly did yata do that susanoo couldn't? lol just accept it, yata was there for the sake of just being there because kishi just wanted it to be in there. Now with totsuka, like you said it was design to take out orochimaru. So yes, if it'll make you feel better totsuka would be an asspull for sasuke's sake. The original point I was making is that there should be some category for what's acceptable as asspulls and what shouldn't. totsuka is fine because it doesn't contradict anything nor is it completely unbelievable in regards to sealing techniques (lol since hiruzen's DRS)

but BS like obito escaping his death by his MS auto activating kamui or kakashi capable of using PS because he still has obito's chakra still lodged in his brain, nonsense like that isn't just asspulls but clearly convenient plot armor that was so ridiculous even sasuke questioned the logic of it. that is the kind of stuff I feel should be legitimately labelled as asspulls not stuff like totsuka otherwise what's stopping anything from being an asspulls? I can call sasuke's chidori an asspull because he never shown to do it before and plot needed him to stab gaara with it, see how dumb that sounds and yet no less credible than what you said.

tl:dr

the word asspulls shouldn't be generalized or over saturated but rather should only apply to those that hurt the manga by contradictions or breaks the very rules it established. otherwise the word loses value.

 

[lndra]

And what exactly did yata do that susanoo couldn't? lol just accept it, yata was there for the sake of just being there because kishi just wanted it to be in there. Now with totsuka, like you said it was design to take out orochimaru. So yes, if it'll make you feel better totsuka would be an asspull for sasuke's sake. The original point I was making is that there should be some category for what's acceptable as asspulls and what shouldn't. totsuka is fine because it doesn't contradict anything nor is it completely unbelievable in regards to sealing techniques (lol since hiruzen's DRS)

Yata Mirror was said to be able to to negate any attack. Susano'o isn't a defense that cannot ever be taken down, everything has a weakness. Yet Itachi's Susano'o came with a shield with no background information on how he received it, nor information before it was shown that it was actually in his arsenal.

I feel that both these abilities were simply ass-pull because Kishimoto needed to make Itachi deflect Sasuke's Kirin 'logical' with that shield, and of course you stated that Totsuka blade just served a single purpose as in saving him from Orochimaru's curse seal.

Which again is just primarily just plot working into play. I'm not dissing Itachi, because he's not the only character who had strange powers to fit the plot. But I'm pointing out that the power made no sense because it was a one time thing for a one time moment before he died.

but BS like obito escaping his death by his MS auto activating kamui or kakashi capable of using PS because he still has obito's chakra still lodged in his brain, nonsense like that isn't just asspulls but clearly convenient plot armor that was so ridiculous even sasuke questioned the logic of it. that is the kind of stuff I feel should be legitimately labelled as asspulls not stuff like totsuka otherwise what's stopping anything from being an asspulls? I can call sasuke's chidori an asspull because he never shown to do it before and plot needed him to stab gaara with it, see how dumb that sounds and yet no less credible than what you said.

I agree. Well you stated pretty much what an ass pull is by definition: Anything that appears in the plot when no background information was stated that it was going to appear at all.

For example, even Sakura's Byakugou seal is technically an ass-pull because nowhere was it state that she was storing chakra for 3 years. Not until the very moment she activated it :lol

Its really just Kishimoto's writing at this point.

tl:dr

the word asspulls shouldn't be generalized or over saturated but rather should only apply to those that hurt the manga by contradictions or breaks the very rules it established. otherwise the word loses value. oh hey, oh neji had rotation to deflect naruto's clones, that's technically an asspull since the technique was never mentioned.

I'm done for any abilities appearing out of the blue, if and only if:

> The author gives an explanation down the line on how the person obtained it through training scenes.

> If the author did actually hint that there was a possibility the character was doing something in order to obtain the ability/technique/power-up

Generally its Kishimoto's forte. IMO

 

[Warlocks]

then we can call them rhat
they are Prodigies/Geniuses on using handout power

 

[SenseiSama]

W-what? Enton is one of Sasuke's Mangekyo's abilities.

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I don't believe it was stated anywhere that Sasuke's affinity for Amaterasu comes from being a Katon and Lightning release user. Plus, based on that logic, Itachi's affinity for Genjutsu is clearly represented in Tsukuyomi.

But then again it wasn't stated why certain people have certain Mangekyo Abilities, and why others don't. Its just unique for each user without a real 'explanation'.

I don't believe MS abilities are unique cause they all come from Kaguya's feats, they only seem unique because so few Uchiha are able to unlock Mangekyo. But Tobirama proved Sasuke wasn't the only Enton user and Sasuke proved Amaterasu wasn't unique to Itachi.

And Enton coming from Sasuke's affinity to Lightning and Fire makes sense because his jutsu is the equal opposite of Mokuton. Think about it, Mokuton = Doton + Suiton + Yang, while Enton = Raiton + Katon + Yin, it fits the Yin/Yang theme between Indra and Ashura

Bro we know none of that exists in the Manga. It would of be cool if your theory was in the Manga, but because its a theory, you know deep down that Kishimoto just made those weapons out of the blue so that Itachi could do what he needed to do for plot.

Its the same thing with how Itachi suddenly has Izanami to stop Kabuto because ... well shit!

Tbh even I don't believe that theory :lol


But I still don't think the spirit weapons are an asspull, Itachi was stated to be extremely knowledgable ever since a young age, he was always interested in the history of shinobi so it's most likely he used his interest and knowledge to locate the spirit weapons long before Orochmaru knew about their existence.

And I would go as far as to say Itachi found them before Oro because the weapons originally belonged to Indra, being an Uchiha gave Itachi the benefit of finding more clues of where to find the weapons (most likely the battlefield Indra and Ashura fought in)

 

[Warlocks]

Not really, Sasuke's Enton blade came from him being able to use Enton which came from him having Katon and Lightning affinity. On the other hand Totsuka comes from Itachi having genjutsu affinity hence why his blade puts the victim under a genjutsu.

And Yata Mirror is a reflection of his will to shield the ones he loves from danger just as Enton/Amaterasu is a reflection of Sasuke will to burn down his enemies and Konoha's past.

i thought sword of totsuka and yata mirror were not part of itachi Susanoo

 

[take it easy]

Sorry but i disagree. Kishi said that to use doujutsu higher than 3 tomoe Sharingan you dont need any talent, just strong emotions

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[lndra]

I don't believe MS abilities are unique cause they all come from Kaguya's feats, they only seem unique because so few Uchiha are able to unlock Mangekyo. But Tobirama proved Sasuke wasn't the only Enton user and Sasuke proved Amaterasu wasn't unique to Itachi.

Kaguya has never really showed any MS abilities. We already knew Amaterasu was a known MS ability, both Sasuke/Itachi showcased it.

However Sasuke's unique ability is Kagutsuchi.

And Enton coming from Sasuke's affinity to Lightning and Fire makes sense because his jutsu is the equal opposite of Mokuton. Think about it, Mokuton = Doton + Suiton + Yang, while Enton = Raiton + Katon + Yin, it fits the Yin/Yang theme between Indra and Ashura

Enton is from the Mangekyo Sharingan though. You don't really need Lightning and Fire to make it, even Itachi has Amaterasu with Fire and Water natures.

Tbh even I don't believe that theory :lol

Why?

But I still don't think the spirit weapons are an asspull, Itachi was stated to be extremely knowledgable ever since a young age, he was always interested in the history of shinobi so it's most likely he used his interest and knowledge to locate the spirit weapons long before Orochmaru knew about their existence.

Did you ever ask the question on how Itachi would obtain spirit weapons that Orochimaru couldn't find when he was busy dealing with the Uchiha coup and joining the Akatsuki right after?

I mean when did this dude Itachi have free time.

And I would go as far as to say Itachi found them before Oro because the weapons originally belonged to Indra, being an Uchiha gave Itachi the benefit of finding more clues of where to find the weapons (most likely the battlefield Indra and Ashura fought in)

Ok...

 

[SenseiSama]

i thought sword of totsuka and yata mirror were not part of itachi Susanoo

Well I don't believe they are, but people gave me convincing theories that they might be. But imo they originally belonged to Indra and Itachi found them in a hidden location. I can only see someone with Hagoromo's Yin being able to create weapons made of spiritual energy.

 

[Sagebee]

Kaguya has never really showed any MS abilities. We already knew Amaterasu was a known MS ability, both Sasuke/Itachi showcased it.

However Sasuke's unique ability is Kagutsuchi.


Enton is from the Mangekyo Sharingan though. You don't really need Lightning and Fire to make it, even Itachi has Amaterasu with Fire and Water natures.



Why?



Did you ever ask the question on how Itachi would obtain spirit weapons that Orochimaru couldn't find when he was busy dealing with the Uchiha coup and joining the Akatsuki right after?

I mean when did this dude Itachi have free time.


Ok...

Man that avi is awesome is it fan made and is your signature from the boruto anime?