[Theory] Princess Kaguya and Rikudou's Tribe Became the Uzumaki Clan

[Zee Seh]

This theory is based on the possibility of the Sage having brothers, since the Sage had only two sons (Sir Derp just said it to me), and taking in account the high chakra reserves on the Uzumaki bloodline, then the Sage's younger brothers/sisters formed the Uzumaki Clan due the chakra in their bloodline.

The main problem of this theory is that it's based on an assumption, something that removes credibility from the theory.

The paradox that I mentioned earlier is as following:

- The sage was the first human born with chakra
- The fruit growth once in a millenium, and princess Kaguya was the one to eat it
- Chakra = Yin + Yang Energy, or Spiritual + Physical Energy (same thing)

The sage being able to teach ninjutsu is not possible with these things in mind, because if people are not born with chakra, then people don't have Yin and Yang Energy to start with. Ergo, even if they are taught, they can't use this knowledge unless... they have spiritual+physical energy (chakra) in their bodies.

If the sage was the first human born with chakra, then he is the first human born with yin and yang energy to mold chakra. If this was not the case, then other people would be born with chakra, and this is a clear contradiction to the pages I posted earlier.

This is the main reason of why I need a logic answer that can offer rebuttal to my statements. I alude to manga facts, I need to be convinced logically...

im having a doubt... now go to the first page and see the first scan again.. the first line... its says Princess Kaguya was the first to USE chakra ... nd then rikudo was the first one who was born with chakra..
manga never said that kaguya never had chakra at the first place . she was able to USE chakra after she ate the forbidden fruit.. any views on this??

 

[ShadowCloneJutsu]

I've read a few theories including Derp's about the Uzumaki clan's connection with the Sage etc. etc. Not gonna lie, I wouldn't have been surprised at all if Derp's theory was true, but evidence shows otherwise. I'm sure most people on the base have seen or read a thread of that sort.

In the last chapter, the true clan that the Sage is revealed and it seems like it would end there, but no.

I really thought it was simple.. he is an OOTSUTSUKI.

To say that they formed the Uzumaki clan afterwards is quite a strech, but at the same time it is possible.

And why does this matter in the first place? Because Naruto inherited this amazing power and is the reincarnation of the Sage?

You would think that if the Uzumaki did derive from this clan, surely a FULL BLOODED Uzumaki would be the strongest form.. But Naruto is not a full blooded Uzumaki, he is only half.

BUT WAIT THAT MEANS HYBRIDS ARE STRONGER RIGHT?! ...Sure.

It is an endless cycle of speculation where anyone may be right, but I've concluded that Kishimoto will probably never go to the depths that people on the base go to resolve this.

It's like arguing about what race God is.. White/Black/Hispanic/Asian.. either way it doesn't really matter.

Everyone has their own stories of how a God came to be, and there's no sense in arguing about who's right and who's wrong.

Personally, I like to think that the reason why Naruto is the reincarnation of the sage is due to his MORALITY, NINDO, and DESIRE FOR PEACE. Albeit a lot of this comes from the fact of him being an Uzumaki and a Jinchuuriki, I'd like to think most of the reason comes from his character, not from his DNA.

Think about it, Goku wasn't a HERO because of his DNA. Goku became a hero through his MORALITY AND DESIRE FOR PEACE.

-ShadowCloneJutsu

 

[Mr Hiru]

im having a doubt... now go to the first page and see the first scan again.. the first line... its says Princess Kaguya was the first to USE chakra ... nd then rikudo was the first one who was born with chakra..
manga never said that kaguya never had chakra at the first place . she was able to USE chakra after she ate the forbidden fruit.. any views on this??

I'm trying to see this in the simplest way possible.

- The fruit contained the Shinjuu's chakra.

- When the princess ate it, she obtained chakra and so, she was able to use it, but she wasn't born with it.

- When she had a son, the son was born with chakra.

...that's the straightforward logic of the stated events.

 

[From the Dark Spire]

First of all. Mangastreams translations have been known to be head and shoulders above MangaPanda.

MangaPanda gets them out first....*********** gets them correct. That's just the way its been..

And to your point. No he wasn't. The next page he again states that "Once man decided to consume that fruit, they became cursed."

What, did you just think that everyone today is from Rikudo's lineage? Everyone who couldn't use chakra died out?

That's just retarded. There would be nothing important about Hagoromo then if that's the case. Since EVERYBODY is trying to eat the FRUIT THAT ONLY GROWS ONCE A MILLINEUM, and mind you, it's only ONE whole fruit, so that alone just PROVED YOU WRONG, but back to what I was saying.... since everybody's eatin the fruit, ANYBODY could be the sage of six paths, what would be so important about the sage then? He who is the FATHER of ALL shinobi, who defeated the ten-tails and sealed him within himself, who had the Rinnegan and more.

If other people had the fruit and they're own powers, the sage wouldn't be so important, EVERYBODY right now could've been decendent FROM anyone ONE of those people of his time! So stop assuming things, Kaguya Ootsutsuki ate the fruit, the Sage was born from him, and ALL clans stemed from him being the first natural born with chakra.

THE UZUMAKI are known for their strong life force and fuunijutsu... but HOW could they have the chakra to sustain that life force if the SAGE was the first born with chakra inside him at the time? If the Uzumaki were born from the sage's kinsmen, then THEY wouldn't be as powerful as they are now... (This is to you, Derp Obito)

I mean this is my opinion alone, but for the Uzumaki to have ALL of that Strong life force, they would have to recieve it from a source? The sage wasn't an Uzumaki, He was an Ootsutsuki, which MAY have become the Uzumaki later on, but I doubt it.

The Uzumaki are OF the Senju lineage, as described by Zetsu who was with Obito when they tracked down Nagato with Madara's Rinnegan... If the Uzumaki are of the senju lineage, then that only means the Uzumaki must've came to be around the time of the senjus then.

The god of shinobi around Madara/Hashirama's era wasn't an uzumaki, but a senju, Hashirama Senju...

I believe the Sage founded ALL shinobi clans, he was the beginning with chakra, and somewhere down the line, the Uzumaki came to be with their STRONG LIFE FORCE, that they certainly COULD NOT have if they were in existence during the sage's time, as they would not possess ANY CHAKRA to sustain that life force.

 

[From the Dark Spire]

Again, you are reading translations that were rushed...It said he was the, "founding father" of all Shinobi. Not their ancestor.

That would be like saying everyone in America is related to George Washington. The Sage was simply the first one to lay the groundwork for how to utilize chakra.

That would mean you are saying the everyone is related to the two sons. Which means everyone is related to the Senju and Uchiha.

Dude he fuccking is the ancestor of all shinobi. The fruit only bears ONCE in a millineum, the sage's mother ATE the fruit, and it's not like there were more fruit, there is only ONE fruit every 1000 years. WHO ELSE COULD'VE EATEN the freaking fruit if there was only one and the mother of the sage ate it? That would be so stupid and ruin the divinity that the sage is if other people had the chakra and they had descendents with chakra. WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF THE SAGE if anyone else could've been this generation's ancestor, that's stupid bullsh*t. It was said SO many times in the manga that the sage was the ancestor of all shinobi, HELL, Obito just said that a few chapters ago to Tobirama.

ALL the current shinobi who possess CHAKRA in their damn bodies came from the damn sage, who was the FIRST natural born with chakra. Come on, this is not hard to understand. That's why the Uzumakis are definately not among the sage's kinsmen or whatever, the uzumaki are of the senju lineage, as described by Zetsu. They had to appear sometime along with the senjus.. The uzumaki are known for their strong life force and all that good stuff, but how could they have strong life forces during the sage's time, when the sage himself, was the only one BORN with chakra in his body? He was Hagoromo Ootsutsuki, The hermit of the six paths, and not an Uzumaki, the Uzumaki came from HIM, ALONG with all the other shinobi clans who had chakra within their bodies AT BIRTH!

 

[Mr Hiru]

That's just retarded. There would be nothing important about Hagoromo then if that's the case. Since EVERYBODY is trying to eat the FRUIT THAT ONLY GROWS ONCE A MILLINEUM, and mind you, it's only ONE whole fruit, so that alone just PROVED YOU WRONG, but back to what I was saying.... since everybody's eatin the fruit, ANYBODY could be the sage of six paths, what would be so important about the sage then? He who is the FATHER of ALL shinobi, who defeated the ten-tails and sealed him within himself, who had the Rinnegan and more.

If other people had the fruit and they're own powers, the sage wouldn't be so important, EVERYBODY right now could've been decendent FROM anyone ONE of those people of his time! So stop assuming things, Kaguya Ootsutsuki ate the fruit, the Sage was born from him, and ALL clans stemed from him being the first natural born with chakra.

THE UZUMAKI are known for their strong life force and fuunijutsu... but HOW could they have the chakra to sustain that life force if the SAGE was the first born with chakra inside him at the time? If the Uzumaki were born from the sage's kinsmen, then THEY wouldn't be as powerful as they are now... (This is to you, Derp Obito)

I mean this is my opinion alone, but for the Uzumaki to have ALL of that Strong life force, they would have to recieve it from a source? The sage wasn't an Uzumaki, He was an Ootsutsuki, which MAY have become the Uzumaki later on, but I doubt it.

The Uzumaki are OF the Senju lineage, as described by Zetsu who was with Obito when they tracked down Nagato with Madara's Rinnegan... If the Uzumaki are of the senju lineage, then that only means the Uzumaki must've came to be around the time of the senjus then.

The god of shinobi around Madara/Hashirama's era wasn't an uzumaki, but a senju, Hashirama Senju...

I believe the Sage founded ALL shinobi clans, he was the beginning with chakra, and somewhere down the line, the Uzumaki came to be with their STRONG LIFE FORCE, that they certainly COULD NOT have if they were in existence during the sage's time, as they would not possess ANY CHAKRA to sustain that life force.

Dude he fuccking is the ancestor of all shinobi. The fruit only bears ONCE in a millineum, the sage's mother ATE the fruit, and it's not like there were more fruit, there is only ONE fruit every 1000 years. WHO ELSE COULD'VE EATEN the freaking fruit if there was only one and the mother of the sage ate it? That would be so stupid and ruin the divinity that the sage is if other people had the chakra and they had descendents with chakra. WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF THE SAGE if anyone else could've been this generation's ancestor, that's stupid bullsh*t. It was said SO many times in the manga that the sage was the ancestor of all shinobi, HELL, Obito just said that a few chapters ago to Tobirama.

ALL the current shinobi who possess CHAKRA in their damn bodies came from the damn sage, who was the FIRST natural born with chakra. Come on, this is not hard to understand. That's why the Uzumakis are definately not among the sage's kinsmen or whatever, the uzumaki are of the senju lineage, as described by Zetsu. They had to appear sometime along with the senjus.. The uzumaki are known for their strong life force and all that good stuff, but how could they have strong life forces during the sage's time, when the sage himself, was the only one BORN with chakra in his body? He was Hagoromo Ootsutsuki, The hermit of the six paths, and not an Uzumaki, the Uzumaki came from HIM, ALONG with all the other shinobi clans who had chakra within their bodies AT BIRTH!

At least somebody understands where I'm getting at. Thanks for being able to see through the obvious...

 

[Lady Mokusei]

great theory and i agree, But what does "Ootsutsuki" mean??

That is actually very good question since we don't have direct translation of the word.

I believe that Ootsutsuki is written in Japanese like this kanji 大筒木 hiragana おおつつき. If I am right (! Please check Japanese scans) than we have few possible solutions for the translation of this word:

1/ We will divide this word. First part 大 Oo /hiragana おお/ is prefix in Japanese language which means big or large, while the second part 筒木 Tsutsuki /hiragana つつき/ is Japanse surname. So literal translation of the word Ootsutsuki is Big Tsutsuki. Also, I believe that this is the best translation for this word.

NOTE! Interestingly, first part 大 can also be translated as great teacher (i.e. a buddha, bodhisattva or high monk). However, there is problem with this translation. This particular word 大 is written using hiragana like this だいし and pronounced daishi.

2/ We can also divide this word a little bit different. First part now will be 大筒 / hiragana おおづつ/ which means cannon while the second part will be 木 /hiragana き/ which means tree; wood; timber. So the translation in this case would be CannonTree.

3/Also we have third case where the first part 大 can be translated as big, large, second part 筒 as pipe,tube or gun, and third part 木 as tree or wood. So the translation would be BigGunTree.

Edit: Noodle rocks! :yeah:

 

[KillerMongoose]

F*UCK OFF! You are WRONG, deal with it!

 

[iKaras]

Someone answer me this...

I for some reason remember the sage going around the world trying to stop war and "TEACHING" ninjutsu.

However, after reading this thread, I get the feeling the sage ninjutsu's were just passed through genes or something.

Is this right?

OT: Maybe the wifey is a direct bloodline of the Uzumaki...unless he made his kids out of nothingness...what?

 

[Edge]

I believe the Sage founded ALL shinobi clans, he was the beginning with chakra, and somewhere down the line, the Uzumaki came to be with their STRONG LIFE FORCE, that they certainly COULD NOT have if they were in existence during the sage's time, as they would not possess ANY CHAKRA to sustain that life force.

This. If we believe that the Sage was the father of all ninjas genetically, then it stands that every ninja clan is a variant from the Sage. This also means that every ninja clan is also related to the Senju and Uchiha given that the Sage's only known children, his two sons, were either or.

Unless either the Sage actually taught ninjutsu and that chakra was granted to all of humanity after the fruit was eaten, or his wife/lover is related to the Uzumaki clan somehow, then all ninjas are related to the Sage and thus this theory is redundant.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

It's just the same with the Elder and Younger Sons of Rikudou, the Elder was (First Name) Ootsuki while the Younger was (First Name) Ootsuki but their descendants became the Uchihas and Senjus, even if they weren't called Uchihas and Senjus, the Elder Son was an Uchiha because he was the Uchiha Ancestor while the Younger Son was the Senju Ancestor, same thing with the Uzumaki Clan: Hagoromo Ootsuki and his Tribesmen/Kinsmen were the Progenitor Uzumakis making Rikudou and his kin the First Uzumakis.

 

[Aevis]

I believe that the sage joined the uzumaki tribe. I believe he hated his mother for eating the fruit causing the juubi to rampage. I believe he felt dishonored to be related to the woman who made the god tree angry and so he joined the uzumaki tribe like an adopted son. This could also be the reason as to why his mother looks similar to the reaper, and why the Justus belongs to the uzumaki clan.

 

[Byron123]

Sir derp with all due respect you shoud answer to Ethris and that other guy (that suported him). Whether they are wrong or not, since they posed logical questions you're obliged to answer to them since you made this theory after all. Answering selevtively to the ones that posted in this thread is wrong. As long as you're theorist of all this and as long as the questions are logical, you have to unless all this is an hypocrisy and you choose to whom you reply by choosing specifically the arguments you can counter. But more than anything is a matter of politeness.

 

[Draxus]

It's just the same with the Elder and Younger Sons of Rikudou, the Elder was (First Name) Ootsuki while the Younger was (First Name) Ootsuki but their descendants became the Uchihas and Senjus, even if they weren't called Uchihas and Senjus, the Elder Son was an Uchiha because he was the Uchiha Ancestor while the Younger Son was the Senju Ancestor, same thing with the Uzumaki Clan: Hagoromo Ootsuki and his Tribesmen/Kinsmen were the Progenitor Uzumakis making Rikudou and his kin the First Uzumakis.

No that's wrong. Elders Son was not an Uchiha and the Younger Son was not a Senju. They can't possibly be genetically close enough to be called the same clan if by the time they were founded the Sons' bloodline would be considered "diluted". By your definition Kaguya was an Uchiha!

The 2nd part of this post is just fan-fiction so I won't even bother countering that.

Finally I'd like to add a much more logical conclusion of what happen to Kaguya's "tribe" is that their descedants became the ruling families of the 5 Great Nations!

Think about it.. .she was a princess which means her entire family was royalty. When she brought the entire land under her province their was 1 Great Nation. So after her only son goes off to be a hermit, there is no successor. So who else would take up the reign? It has to be Kaguya's next of kin, which probably ended up w/ in-fighting and dividing up of the lands ala Game of Thrones.

Sir derp with all due respect you shoud answer to Ethris and that other guy (that suported him). Whether they are wrong or not, since they posed logical questions you're obliged to answer to them since you made this theory after all. Answering selevtively to the ones that posted in this thread is wrong. As long as you're theorist of all this and as long as the questions are logical, you have to unless all this is an hypocrisy and you choose to whom you reply by choosing specifically the arguments you can counter. But more than anything is a matter of politeness.

That's exactly what he does =D

 

[BryanSk8]

It's been a long time since I've been on here, great read!

And as always great theory!

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

It's been a long time since I've been on here, great read!

And as always great theory!

Thank you.

 

[Eishi]

大筒木（OOTSUTSUKI)　means Big Bamboo culinder tree

Kaguya's surname based on the Japanese folktale named "The tale of the bamboo cutter"

And according to the folktale, her feather robe is called "Hagoromo" in Japanese

 

[ethris]

It's just the same with the Elder and Younger Sons of Rikudou, the Elder was (First Name) Ootsuki while the Younger was (First Name) Ootsuki but their descendants became the Uchihas and Senjus, even if they weren't called Uchihas and Senjus, the Elder Son was an Uchiha because he was the Uchiha Ancestor while the Younger Son was the Senju Ancestor, same thing with the Uzumaki Clan: Hagoromo Ootsuki and his Tribesmen/Kinsmen were the Progenitor Uzumakis making Rikudou and his kin the First Uzumakis.

why is it when i said that the sages clan isnt the uzumaki clan because the uzumaki clan wasnt around till after the sage was born. and i said the uzumaki clan could have been made into a shinobi clan after the sage was around u didnt agree...

You must be registered for see links

thats my thread from months ago
ur first theory is wrong so u change it up now..funny and u cant even admit u were wrong the first time

 

[jt1891]

This is amusing, but people need to face the facts. As it stands, there is zero evidence that the Sage was connected to the Uzumaki clan in any way during his lifetime. They, like the Senju, are his descendants through his youngest son. And that's it.

 

[ethris]

This is amusing, but people need to face the facts. As it stands, there is zero evidence that the Sage was connected to the Uzumaki clan in any way during his lifetime. They, like the Senju, are his descendants through his youngest son. And that's it.

agreed. people need to stop mistaking comparisons to religions found on Wikipedia as evidence. those comparisons are in no way evidence. his whole theory of the sage being born into the uzmakis was based on that type of speculation and it failed.