[Theory] Princess Kaguya and Rikudou's Tribe Became the Uzumaki Clan

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

But seeing as to how Derp has already proven, without a doubt, that not only are their striking symbolism that links the Sage to the Uzumaki but also how unlikely that the Uzumaki are a branch of the Senju. The only option left is that the Sage has something to do with the Uzumaki. And thus any reasonable theory regarding that would be more likely than the idea of the Uzumaki being a branch of the Senju.

I absolutely deny the proposition that the Uzumakis were mere descendants of the Senjus, it is clear in the Manga that the Younger Son's descendants were specified to be the Senjus only.

Really? Maybe you should interview Kishimoto directly so you can tone down your rhetoric. You are doing what most English teachers tend to do, desperately trying to prove your intellect to a bunch of teenagers by "discerning" more than the author intends.

You are engaging in Ad Hominem and I will not indulge upon such things, I bid you good day sir.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Derp, all shinobi were born from the Sage's Kinsmen.

Nope, factions/tribes/clans were already in existence back then, as you can see they are engaging war on one another:

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Not all of them are blood relatives. They were factions of different tribes/clans.

I'm sorry Sir Derp, but I have a winning card in this one...

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a) He was the first human born with chakra
b) He was the ancestor of shinobi
c) He revealed the secrets of chakra and ninjutsu

You can't deny my statements. If he was the first born human with chakra, all humans that inherited this pattern had to be born from him or his 'possible' brother/sisters. These humans are the Shinobi, Ninja, those who uses ninjutsu, those who uses chakra.

My logic can't be denied in this case, since this page has all the facts explicited.

The only hole in my logic is the possibility of other people having access to the fruit, but Uchiha and Senju survived as a shinobi clan until some years before the current context, making this possibility unlikely.

The most logic, explicit and proof-supported conclusion is that he was the Ancestor of All Shinobi. Manga stated. By transitivity, he is the source of all 'shinobi' clans.

Rebating this one would be circumstancial ad hominem until you have strong hard proof to break my statements.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

I'm sorry Sir Derp, but I have a winning card in this one...

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a) He was the first human born with chakra
b) He was the ancestor of shinobi
c) He revealed the secrets of chakra and ninjutsu

You can't deny my statements. If he was the first born human with chakra, all humans that inherited this pattern had to be born from him or his 'possible' brother/sisters. These humans are the Shinobi, Ninja, those who uses ninjutsu, those who uses chakra.

My logic can't be denied in this case, since this page has all the facts explicited.

The only hole in my logic is the possibility of other people having access to the fruit, but Uchiha and Senju survived as a shinobi clan until some years before the current context, making this possibility unlikely.

The most logic, explicit and proof-supported conclusion is that he was the Ancestor of All Shinobi. Manga stated. By transitivity, he is the source of all 'shinobi' clans.

Rebating this one would be circumstancial ad hominem until you have strong hard proof to break my statements.

Other people did eat the fruit? Madara specifically stated this...

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[raziel777]

The key difference is the anthropomorphization of the object of divinity: in Rikudou's Era they worship nature in the object of the Shinju/God-Tree, in other later religions like the Egyptians/Babylonians,etc. they worship an anthropomorphic representation of divinity like Ra, Osiris, Beelzebub, Amaterasu, Susanoo, etc.

It's the definition of animism : nature worship. To them, the tree was life.

But back on topic, your theory is nice but it's a theory. Not fact. And even more so when nothing was said in the chapter about tribes/clans. We have no evidence that conclusively points toward the fact that the princess was from a tribe that was protecting the tree. Hagoromo is a name shared by two people so far, we will have to wait. Now that the Sage was de-mystified, he has a name, a mother. We will get to know more things about him for sure. Just bid your time

 

[Transcendence]

Whether this theory is correct or not would be arguing semantics; but people on this site are far too conclusive with one chapters worth of evidence. The next few chapters will probably elucidate more about the back story and there are lingering possibilities that can still link Rikudou directly to the Uzumaki's.

Right now; no. But like I said, don't be so conclusive.

 

[Daien]

You are engaging in Ad Hominem and I will not indulge upon such things, I bid you good day sir.

But you have no problem with Ad Ignoratiam or Argumentum ad populum, right?

I am merely stating that your use of "big words" and your dissection of Kishi's work are comparable to that of a high school english teacher. Your reaction to my perception is your own. You might take responsibility for it instead of hiding behind your vocabulary.

You have yet to counter Ethris' arguments, or mine, that your fan fictions have been widely contributed to by your peers and you mislead your audience by not giving credit to the giants upon whose shoulders you stand.

Re: Princess Kaguya and Rikudou's Tribe Became the Uzumaki Clan
Originally Posted by Sir Derp Obito It's a perfect setting: Uzumakis were distant relatives of Rikudou's Children's Clans because the Uzumakis descended not directly from Rikudou Sennin/Hagoromo but from his and his mother's Tribe/Kinsmen which became the Uzumaki Clan.
a perfect setting didnt help your last theory, but regardless of this theorys inconsistency's. are you basically saying your whole first theory was wrong? id like an answer to that atleast and (then I will) shut up

 

[Chibiusa]

Shut up, please. You have no proof for your theory, you've got a bunch of pictures to make it look nice but realistically you have no substance.

Anyone could claim ANYTHING if it hasn't yet proved to be incorrect.

For instance, I could claim I have a theory concerning the fight between the Juubi and SO6P, that the SO6P didn't fight the Juubi but just sealed him.

It fits into the story, but is realistically complete bullshit, with no evidence pointing to it.

Your "I firmly believe" is fooling nobody.

Stop trying to save some pride, accept you were wrong.

:|:|:|:|:| most ppl complain that the base has turned into all stupidity and here you are bashing one of the few theorists left on this site. Nice.

OT: Great theory, Derp. I still hope this Uzumaki thing comes to fruition

 

[Edge]

Since the Sage was the first true Ninja, would that not make all clans descendant from him?

 

[Mr Hiru]

Other people did eat the fruit? Madara specifically stated this...

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He was referring to Kaguya with that statement.

Furthermore...

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MangaPanda was far more specific with the translation.

Since the Sage was the first true Ninja, would that not make all clans descendant from him?

I'm betting this is the case, since it was implicitely stated by the statement "The sage was the ancestor of Shinobi".

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

He was referring to Kaguya with that statement.

Furthermore...

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First of all. Mangastreams translations have been known to be head and shoulders above MangaPanda.

MangaPanda gets them out first....*********** gets them correct. That's just the way its been..

And to your point. No he wasn't. The next page he again states that "Once man decided to consume that fruit, they became cursed."

What, did you just think that everyone today is from Rikudo's lineage? Everyone who couldn't use chakra died out?

 

[rollin]

the sage was the first one born with chakra which is a result of his mother fruit from the god tree
it said on the tablet that he was split into yin or yang
chakra is phsyical energies combined with spiritual energies

Spoiler

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his chakra signature was split the older getting spiritual and the younger getting physical energies

Spoiler

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sage's physical energies plus weak spiritual energies=yang
sage's spiritual energies plus weak physcial energies=yin

uzumaki's are only known for their life-force what the younger son inherited as well
also the basis of yang chakra

Spoiler

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naruto gets becomes filled up with more life-force when his chakra mixes with kurama's yang chakra
the sage's chakra and the uzumaki's chakra are different

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

I'm betting this is the case, since it was implicitely stated by the statement "The sage was the ancestor of Shinobi".

Again, you are reading translations that were rushed...It said he was the, "founding father" of all Shinobi. Not their ancestor.

That would be like saying everyone in America is related to George Washington. The Sage was simply the first one to lay the groundwork for how to utilize chakra.

That would mean you are saying the everyone is related to the two sons. Which means everyone is related to the Senju and Uchiha.

 

[Mr Hiru]

First of all. Mangastreams translations have been known to be head and shoulders above MangaPanda.

MangaPanda gets them out first....*********** gets them correct. That's just the way its been..

And to your point. No he wasn't. The next page he again states that "Once man decided to consume that fruit, they became cursed."

What, did you just think that everyone today is from Rikudo's lineage? Everyone who couldn't use chakra died out?

That's not true at all. I demand you bring someone who has the original raw manga and prove which translation is the correct. Both MangaPanda and *********** had previous mistakes, so your statement is non-conclusive.

"Once man decided to consume that fruit, they became cursed." => *********** translation, it was not specific.

But it was stated that Kaguya (a women) was the first one who ate the fruit. Madara talked about her and only her. Telling 'man' is only a way to refer mankind as a race (an individual in the human race, since he said man and not 'men'). Don't be decieved by figurative language. If you don't believe me at least bring someone who can clear all this charade...

 

[saw2097]

Well I would like to point out that its impossible for the Sage to have passed the Chakra gene alone as animals possess the ability to use chakra as well.

 

[Seventh Sama]

great theory and i agree, But what does "Ootsutsuki" mean??

 

[Zuru]

Truly ingenious theories as always Sir Derp Obito. =D

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

That's not true at all. I demand you bring someone who has the original raw manga and prove which translation is the correct. Both MangaPanda and *********** had previous mistakes, so your statement is non-conclusive.

"Once man decided to consume that fruit, they became cursed." => *********** translation, it was not specific.

But it was stated that Kaguya (a women) was the first one who ate the fruit. Madara talked about her and only her. Telling 'man' is only a way to refer mankind as a race. Don't be decieved by figurative language. If you don't believe me at least bring someone who can clear all this charade...

Derp sometimes has Viz... so if he comes back I'll be glad to ask him. If you aren't going to accept the *********** as the better translations (and I understand your point) then we have to wait...which is fine.

In the meantime...if I am understanding you correctly. You are saying everyone is related to the Sage. Which means you are saying everyone is related to these guys...

Spoiler

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Which again is fine...All though, that seems a little outlandish since they are referred to as the Uchiha and Senju ancestors, but fine I will accept it for now. But then tell me, what happened to the descendants of everyone else? You know, the ones that weren't born with chakra in their body..and therefore should not be able to use ninjutsu?

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

The key phrasing here is descendants. This means that the Younger son himself is not stated to be claiming that he's Senju.... Just that his descendants have been called this. This leaves an unspecified time in which side branching could occure to create side clans such as Uzumaki and Hyuga for instance.

Furthermore, Kushina mentions they are distant blood relatives. Being the clan the Senju directly descend from (were Ootsutsuki to truly have name changed to Uzumaki) then why are they "distant blood relatives"?! It makes no sense if they are the direct blood progenitors. Furthermore a more direct or progenitor description should have been chosen than one that sounds like that of a cousin.


That being said... It is still too soon to know anything for certain. All we know is right now the Sage's name is Hogoromo Ootsutsuki. This theory is plausible, but with the revelation that so far it is not Uzumaki, and that which I explained above... I can't see him changing to Uzumaki.

The Sage is still the Progenitor of the Uzumaki... He just seemingly is also the progenitor of other clans (most likely Hyuga, Uchiha, and Senju) as well, and it isn't that these three generate from the Uzumaki directly.

As always good theory.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Derp sometimes has Viz... so if he comes back I'll be glad to ask him. If you aren't going to accept the *********** as the better translations (and I understand your point) then we have to wait...which is fine.

In the meantime...if I am understanding you correctly. You are saying everyone is related to the Sage. Which means you are saying everyone is related to these guys...

Spoiler

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Which again is fine...All though, that seems a little outlandish, but fine I will accept it for now. But then tell me, what happened to the descendants of everyone else? You know, the ones that weren't born with chakra in their body..and therefore should not be able to use ninjutsu?

The Sage could have other sons aside the Uchiha and Senju, and even he could have brothers with chakra, but I'll base the answer on the facts: He had two sons (that were related to the creation of the tailed beasts).

As for people 'without chakra', there is not explicit answer. But, for instance, there are villagers that did choose to not become ninja (they have their own jobs, it could be because they didn't have the ability in their blood).

There are clans which power was weakened due the Sage's bloodline being thinned with the flow of time (people with the Sage's blood married others without the sage's blood, resulting in people with less chakra/ability).

Most people with poor chakra/ability died in the war in Madara's era, that is manga fact.

That is (as I can concieve) a plausible answer for your question.

 

[Daien]

First of all. Mangastreams translations have been known to be head and shoulders above MangaPanda.

MangaPanda gets them out first....*********** gets them correct. That's just the way its been..

And to your point. No he wasn't. The next page he again states that "Once man decided to consume that fruit, they became cursed."

What, did you just think that everyone today is from Rikudo's lineage? Everyone who couldn't use chakra died out?

Now, your refutations including quotes are well founded. You have valid questions and arguments. Good work.

Maybe if you use the words ad hoc reasoning to describe the changing of Derp's theories over time, he will understand.