Can you show me a scan where he used Mystical Palm?
As i said, i think its The Narrative Technique that Writers use To invoke Strong Emotions, in this case hype on Hiruzen's part, implying that he is a badass, the technique Exaggeration.
Prime Hiruzen Sarutobi Abilities!!! (Must Read)
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As i said, i think its The Narrative Technique that Writers use To invoke Strong Emotions, in this case hype on Hiruzen's part, implying that he is a badass, the technique Exaggeration.
Shadow Abyss
Member
I hate to burst your bubble, but it is actually pretty easy to disprove the "Hiruzen knows every jutsu on the leaf" as just an hyperbole.
During Naruto's wind release training Yamato said it was impossible to master all five chakra natures, therefore even Hiruzen didn't manage this feat. Hiruzen is a famous individual, if he could do so, Yamato wouldn't say it. The fact he is an ANBU and works directly for the Hokage definitely doesn't helps.
By the way, Hiruzen had no ways of performing clan specific fighting styles, even the ones that doesn't recquire KG. They are supposed to be secrets no one outside of the clan is allowed to know.
I can't picture him researching Konoha's forbidden jutsu like Orochimaru did, so I doubt he knows macabre stuff like Edo Tensei. He was disgusted when found out his student doing it. By the way, Kabuto didn't mention his name among the ninja able to use it.
I presume it is just supposed to mean he knows a lot of jutsu, like Kakashi's supposed 1000+ arsenal. But most of these would be commonplace techniques like some elemental jutsu or Taijutsu moves. If Hiruzen actually knew how to use every jutsu on the leaf, it would open some questions and plot holes.
During Naruto's wind release training Yamato said it was impossible to master all five chakra natures, therefore even Hiruzen didn't manage this feat. Hiruzen is a famous individual, if he could do so, Yamato wouldn't say it. The fact he is an ANBU and works directly for the Hokage definitely doesn't helps.
By the way, Hiruzen had no ways of performing clan specific fighting styles, even the ones that doesn't recquire KG. They are supposed to be secrets no one outside of the clan is allowed to know.
I can't picture him researching Konoha's forbidden jutsu like Orochimaru did, so I doubt he knows macabre stuff like Edo Tensei. He was disgusted when found out his student doing it. By the way, Kabuto didn't mention his name among the ninja able to use it.
I presume it is just supposed to mean he knows a lot of jutsu, like Kakashi's supposed 1000+ arsenal. But most of these would be commonplace techniques like some elemental jutsu or Taijutsu moves. If Hiruzen actually knew how to use every jutsu on the leaf, it would open some questions and plot holes.
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-immortal-
Active member
Awards
people are going to Complane about hiruzen VS ....
all Nonsence this isn't an VS thread am i right ?
all Nonsence this isn't an VS thread am i right ?
Thundercles
Active member
While I do not agree with your complete assessment, I do agree with the summary. Plus rep man. Good job.
Thundercles
Active member
If you pay attention to the scan that states it, it says he "knows and is able to do ALL the jutsu".
Thundercles
Active member
Look, you are right. At his prime, or prob to the point he died, he knew and could do ALL of the jutsu in the leaf, with the exception of KKG. It stated it in the manga and there is no reason to refute it.
Meowazziel
Active member
I like Hiruzen knowing all non-kekkei genkai techniques in the leaf village and being able to use them,
I dont believe that he is capable of doing gentle fist.
Even though you can use it without Byakugan(as in, just throw chakra in someone, without seeing what you do), its a bit weird to do so imo.
Dont you agree?
I do think he can do Hidden techniques. He might have figured them out himself or had access to them as Hokage.
I dont believe that he is capable of doing gentle fist.
Even though you can use it without Byakugan(as in, just throw chakra in someone, without seeing what you do), its a bit weird to do so imo.
Dont you agree?
I do think he can do Hidden techniques. He might have figured them out himself or had access to them as Hokage.
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Thundercles
Active member
The Hidden Shinobi
Active member
seriously??? Gentle fist??? how can someone use gentle fish without seeing chakra pathways and how can someone possibly use the rotation jutsu like a hyuuga who are able to release chakra from every part of their body. Same thing goes for the KKG abilities you mentioned. Even someone with common sense can tell that he cant use those abilities. You are taking things too literally. As for the other elemental jutsu, thats still not possible because jiraiya said that Nagato was the only human he knew who could control all six nature types. He know all the jutsu that exists and can use all the jutsu that his elemental affinities are associated with.
The problem is that the first are mainly concentrated on simple and real life fighting techniques with the elemental jutsus being hard to execute and also there were a few of the elemental techniques. Back then a fire style or water style jutsu were considered high level jutsu. Why the difference??? Who knows??? But the best guess is that kishi hadnt fully thought of any jutsu like the ones being shown now.
As for hiruzen's strength.... Look at how Oro fought 4 tails naruto. That guy practically played around with him. And also look at the techniques he used with naruto. Why didnt oro use those techs with hiruzen?? Its because those jutsu didnt come to kishi's mind back then. As for his chakra level, evgen in that old stage he rivaled orochimaru. Even the Anbu were horrifyingly impressed. Kakashi told guy during the fight that hiruzen could fend off oro. And oro was not confident enough that he could fight hiruzen and come out without being mortally wounded or maybe even killed. Thats why he summoned the previous kage. the other reason for summoning them was to crush hiruzen's spirit which he could not. This shows hiruzen's endurance and mental strength.
Hiruzen fought off the first and seconh kage along with orochimaru. He was the strongest kage of his generation meaning he was stronger than oonoki, A's father and the other kage.
As for data-book facts, Kishi initially wanted hiruzen to be a dog but did not because it would have been wierd.
So was hiruzen strong??? HELL YEAH!! \m/
The problem is that the first are mainly concentrated on simple and real life fighting techniques with the elemental jutsus being hard to execute and also there were a few of the elemental techniques. Back then a fire style or water style jutsu were considered high level jutsu. Why the difference??? Who knows??? But the best guess is that kishi hadnt fully thought of any jutsu like the ones being shown now.
As for hiruzen's strength.... Look at how Oro fought 4 tails naruto. That guy practically played around with him. And also look at the techniques he used with naruto. Why didnt oro use those techs with hiruzen?? Its because those jutsu didnt come to kishi's mind back then. As for his chakra level, evgen in that old stage he rivaled orochimaru. Even the Anbu were horrifyingly impressed. Kakashi told guy during the fight that hiruzen could fend off oro. And oro was not confident enough that he could fight hiruzen and come out without being mortally wounded or maybe even killed. Thats why he summoned the previous kage. the other reason for summoning them was to crush hiruzen's spirit which he could not. This shows hiruzen's endurance and mental strength.
Hiruzen fought off the first and seconh kage along with orochimaru. He was the strongest kage of his generation meaning he was stronger than oonoki, A's father and the other kage.
As for data-book facts, Kishi initially wanted hiruzen to be a dog but did not because it would have been wierd.
So was hiruzen strong??? HELL YEAH!! \m/
YellowFang
Active member
Nicely put, instead of that huge list of KKG's...
Hiruzen can't learn them, it's not that he is not much skilled or something like that... KKG's can't be copied, learned or taught, you have to born with them...
Other than that I still think he doesn't have some of these too and more,
FRS
FTG
Raikiri and chidori variants
Rasengan variants
Raiton: Kage Bunshin
Sage Mode...
He was known to know about all techniques existing in Konoha, not that he also have it....
Still, Hashi is sure above him and Minato just exceeds him...
Hiruzen can't learn them, it's not that he is not much skilled or something like that... KKG's can't be copied, learned or taught, you have to born with them...
Other than that I still think he doesn't have some of these too and more,
FRS
FTG
Raikiri and chidori variants
Rasengan variants
Raiton: Kage Bunshin
Sage Mode...
He was known to know about all techniques existing in Konoha, not that he also have it....
Still, Hashi is sure above him and Minato just exceeds him...
The Hidden Shinobi
Active member
By you logic, hashirama cant heal himself without the use of handsigns and his medical nin is not superior to tsunades, becuase that is just a narrative technique to invoke strong emotions.lol
Yamato didnt say it was impossible.. Kakashi said it was difficult, but it is possible. nagato knows all 5 elements, and kakahi knows 4 elements.
Exactly. But i agree that he cant use KKG techniques. I didnt post any KKG techniques in his arsenal.
I do agree. I think he is able to use the art style of gentle fist. Im not saying that he can Hit the chakra points like a hyuuga, becuase he doesnt have a byakugan, but i don think he knows they style of the technique.
I never said hiruzen could use a KKG.. Gentle fist isnt a KKG. The byakugan is the KKG, which makes gentle fist a deadly art. But the stlye of gentle fist by itself is simply a taijutsu tech.
Amaterasu is a tech spawned from a KKG (sharingan), so no he cant use it. But im sure you already knew that. I didnt place KKG tech's in his arsenal
The clan techniques are not KKG's, they are called secret techniques. They are possible to learn from anyone, but they usually are only taught to clan members. It is not impossible for hiruzen to know they.
Hiruzen's hype was given to him in his prime, so any technique that was created after his prime he wouldnt have.
ie. FTG, FRS, Rasengan variants..
Sage mode isnt a hidden leaf technique, its a technique of the specific summon, but its unsure if hiruzen was a monkey sage.lol
I tried really hard.lol
But serously, they clan tech's are not KKG's they are only secret techniques, which makes it possible for him to learn given his nickname as the professor.