[Discussion] Power scaling in OP

Dęvîa Puęrî

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This is nonsense

The marines without the warlords are overall stronger then any individual yonko

It's clear as day

The yonko have themselves
And their commanders (usually top 3-5) and then fodder or semi relevant characters (like basil Hawkins etc)

Whereas the marines have the chief commander of world government (kong)
Fleet admiral akainu (either of these two should be able to easily contend with a yonko and keep them busy)

Then the three admirals (which through the war of the best was shown to best commanders in almost ever way)

After that you have fodder/VA and then some odd balls like garp sengoku tsuaru

This is not even including the warlords of the cypher pol...

Idk why people are acting as if the marines are weak af no individual yonko can contend with the marines (when you stack them up) let alone the full might of the warlords and cypher pol..
 
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Olorin

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Dęvîa Puęrî said:
Idk why people are acting as if the marines are weak af no individual yonko can contend with the marines (when you stack them up) let alone the full might of the warlords and cypher pol..
A lot of it is recency bias, some is echo chambers, some deluded content creators on yt and other sites,...
 

arv993

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This is nonsense

The marines without the warlords are overall stronger then any individual yonko

It's clear as day

The yonko have themselves
And their commanders (usually top 3-5) and then fodder or semi relevant characters (like basil Hawkins etc)

Whereas the marines have the chief commander of world government (kong)
Fleet admiral akainu (either of these two should be able to easily contend with a yonko and keep them busy)

Then the three admirals (which through the war of the best was shown to best commanders in almost ever way)

After that you have fodder/VA and then some odd balls like garp sengoku tsuaru

This is not even including the warlords of the cypher pol...

Idk why people are acting as if the marines are weak af no individual yonko can contend with the marines (when you stack them up) let alone the full might of the warlords and cypher pol..

I really want to see the people who claim one yonko crew = all marines + warlords.

it was never claimed in this thread.

The collective yonko(all 4) are stronger than marines alone is the point that was discussed.

Also marines are at a disadvantage not that they are weak, they have to sacrifice a lot and hire pirates to keep a balance with the yonko.
 
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SaitamaSanji

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After the recent set of chapters it seems more and more evidence is pointing in the direction that admiral = yonko believed by some is false. They are close but not equal imo. Until now it’s repeated over and over again that they need the warlords to counter the yonko. Now they are hoping the SSG will be enough.

Marines have 3 admirals, a fleet admiral and some old veterans like sengoku and Garp along with the rest of their armada and yet that is not enough. Even akainu in light of all the wrongdoings of the warlords still wanted them to counter the yonko.

Any thoughts on this?


can u elaborate on how u got that idea from recent chapters? i mean from wt content did u came to that conclusion? can u post the references from manga which helped u on this
 

arv993

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can u elaborate on how u got that idea from recent chapters? i mean from wt content did u came to that conclusion? can u post the references from manga which helped u on this
Which conclusion are you referring to?
Yonko > admirals

Or

the power balance between the marines and the collective yonko
 

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Which conclusion are you referring to?
Yonko > admirals

Or

the power balance between the marines and the collective yonko
i think one way or another both of them are connected. isnt that why u use power balance to indicate yonko>admirals or vice versa. so wt ever was on ur mind can u post the references from manga which helped u on these conclusion. it would help us to get an idea before we discuss abt it here
 

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I don't think a single Yonkou and crew are > the entirety of the WG. I do feel however, that any Yonkou captain is > any Admiral in a 1v1 scenario and I can't recall any moments that would bring that into question.
 

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I don't think a single Yonkou and crew are > the entirety of the WG. I do feel however, that any Yonkou captain is > any Admiral in a 1v1 scenario and I can't recall any moments that would bring that into question.
Do you remember how some people were saying Akainu gave Kaido his scar because it looks similar to Luffy's scar? :ROFLMAO:
 

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Do you remember how some people were saying Akainu gave Kaido his scar because it looks similar to Luffy's scar? :ROFLMAO:
Yeah the reasoning wasn't great but given he punched through WB it didn't seem that odd to consider. I don't think Yonkou are so > Admirals in a 1 on 1 that an Admiral wouldn't be able to hurt/hit them but I do think the Admiral would lose eventually.

It'd be interesting to see how those people view Oden though. If they thought Akainu damaged Kaido but it turns out it was Oden do they consider Oden at or close to Admiral level?
 

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Yeah, it has been said many times, Admirals cant match Emperors.

Sick and Old Whitebeard gave a good beating to Akainu. A prime Emperor would High Diff any Admiral.
 

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I don't think a single Yonkou and crew are > the entirety of the WG. I do feel however, that any Yonkou captain is > any Admiral in a 1v1 scenario and I can't recall any moments that would bring that into question.
Akainu matching WB's power.

By feats, Fujitora, Akainu, and Aokiji have all outperformed Big Mom(Aokiji instantly freezing miles of ocean, Akainu matching the power of WB's Quakes and his meteor rain, Fujitora lifting the rubble all throughout Dressrosa exceed anything BM has done).
 

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Old WB's possessed a DF ability which Sengoku likens to an Ancient Weapon. And proceeds to mention it has the capacity to destroy the world. In the same token Old WB is introduced and depicted in the manga as (1) Strongest Man (2) Strongest Pirate (3) Man Closest to One Piece. By definition his accolades and accomplishments were examplar to 99% of the population, Admiral and Emperor included. Thus, to use him as basis for all the other 3 is false. At best that liberty should be afforded to Teach. Who as far as matters goes is featless. None of the current Emperors have demonstrated the scale of destruction an Admiral has produced. There's nothing which has happened in the last chapters which has changed the notion Admirals and Emperors can compete. Marines are under staffed at higher positions. And that is what puts the Emperors at an advantage. The gulf in class between Admiral and Vice Admiral is where, someone like Cracker would get his cheeks flossed by the former. But couldn't comfortably take on several buster calls.
 

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Akainu matching WB's power.

By feats, Fujitora, Akainu, and Aokiji have all outperformed Big Mom(Aokiji instantly freezing miles of ocean, Akainu matching the power of WB's Quakes and his meteor rain, Fujitora lifting the rubble all throughout Dressrosa exceed anything BM has done).
But he didn't, not really. WB had to contend with more than just Akainu at that moment and not just the other people but his body failing him as well. And the moments it was them vs each other were hit for hit, Akainu never showed to overpower him. He hit him in the chest with a lava hand and WB tossed him in the air for it.

They may have had more impressive displays but having better moments isn't a solid way to predict who's stronger though. Aokiji froze miles of ocean but Doffy broke out of his ice, so....Fuji lifting a town's worth of rubble is hard to compare to historically undamaged skin don't you think? How do you pick one being better?

An Admiral vs a Yonko would play out pretty similar to Akainu vs Aokiji, a long drawn out battle.
 

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i think one way or another both of them are connected. isnt that why u use power balance to indicate yonko>admirals or vice versa. so wt ever was on ur mind can u post the references from manga which helped u on these conclusion. it would help us to get an idea before we discuss abt it here
I mean the collective yonko being over the marines is obvious by what garp and brannew said.

so in terms of admirals vs yonko in a 1 v 1. It seems like oda has made it clear even among the top tiers some are above others. When I say that I don’t mean extreme diff fights. We have seen that Garp and roger are clearly a class of their own and have immense hype etc in the latest chapters.

And so far the yonko have more of these legendary characters with hype that I just don’t see the fujitoras of the world having. we also have feats to prove that fujitora is likely below big mom and kaido in how they handled luffy. The evidence is piling up that a yonko meaning the captain is likely to be individually superior to an admiral.
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Akainu matching WB's power.

By feats, Fujitora, Akainu, and Aokiji have all outperformed Big Mom(Aokiji instantly freezing miles of ocean, Akainu matching the power of WB's Quakes and his meteor rain, Fujitora lifting the rubble all throughout Dressrosa exceed anything BM has done).
Using Size of attack to justify as better feats is not always accurate. Doffy can crush a whole country which is more impressive than fujitora’s rubble feat. Big mom and kaido treated luffy as a fly and took him out easily whilst luffy was in G4 something that fujitora couldn’t do to a weakened luffy.
 
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I mean the collective yonko being over the marines is obvious by what garp and brannew said.

so in terms of admirals vs yonko in a 1 v 1. It seems like oda has made it clear even among the top tiers some are above others. When I say that I don’t mean extreme diff fights. We have seen that Garp and roger are clearly a class of their own and have immense hype etc in the latest chapters.

And so far the yonko have more of these legendary characters with hype that I just don’t see the fujitoras of the world having. we also have feats to prove that fujitora is likely below big mom and kaido in how they handled luffy. The evidence is piling up that a yonko meaning the captain is likely to be individually superior to an admiral.
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Using Size of attack to justify as better feats is not always accurate. Doffy can crush a whole country which is more impressive than fujitora’s rubble feat. Big mom and kaido treated luffy as a fly and took him out easily whilst luffy was in G4 something that fujitora couldn’t do to a weakened luffy.

can u tell me wt they said coz i dnt remember any sort of such a thing. sorry to trouble u though 😅

its true abt fujitora and other yonko. bt its too early for comparisons IMO. fujitora and greenbull have been promoted recently bt we still do know next to nothing abt their power. heck we still hvnt even seen how greenbull looks like :LOL: wt my take on admirals is that we never once saw any of them fight seriously or sometimes they were at huge disadvantage due to locations. example would be
1. MF battle. their utmost priority was to protect MF (and killing ace which is obvious) otherwise MF would be like PH if akainu and aokiji went rampage on pirates

2.fujitora's acting in dressrosa arc. this guy never fought sabo,luffy seriously for obvious reasons.he didnt even participate to help take down doffy bar that push against bird cage. which was the least he could to do since he didnt want navy to gain any praise for taking down doffy. and for comparing rubble feat with bird cage is not quite right when we look at their intentions. bird cage was quite like an end game from doffy while we still dont know a glimpse of wt fujitora's end game would look like. he used rubble to attack pirates who were trying to flee in their ships and helped clean dressrosa at the same time. and he took zero effort in doing so. not only that he fought luffy while still controlling them at the air. i know lot of guys try to bring up how kaido one shotted luffy when they all forgets how luffy in G3 damaged kaido in his dragon form and knocked him out to his human form. all fujitora did was defending against luffy's G3 attacks while not using haki and the only time he went offensive he sent luffy flying away. not only that we all saw how grateful he was towards luffy for saving dressrosa even though he was supposed to capture him. so the guy was never serious on taking luffy on even kill him.

3. the recent fujitora and greenbull vs sabo and revolutionaries. we dnt know wt happened on that battle.and we saw fujitora being injured as well. so its not good to talk abt it right now as we dnt know wt actually happened. bt as far as the details goes we know sabo and rev attacked on mariejois. again for wt we know admirals are at a disadvantage with the location. they cant harm mariejois while fighting. in other words they wouldnt be able to go all out. if u can remember when akainu asked greenbull to send fujitora away fujitora asks shall we go against each other and greenbull reply that he dnt want to bt if anything else he didnt want to destroy the whole place if he could help. implying if went out at each other the place would be destroyed which shouldnt be their job. so in fact even though two admirals were there to fight they at a clear disadvantage while fighting sabo and the co. they probably had to play defense at fight which would explain fujitora's wound plus anyone shouldnt take on sabo lightly as he is now getting hang of his devil fruit.

4. kizaru vs rayleigh. which was the probably the only time admiral could hv went all out if he wanted. bt sadly that admiral was kizaru. the guy is more of a trolling character. he trolling so hard we dnt even know when he would be serious or not. we all know that battle didnt prolonged as kuma sent away strawhats and fighting was over

5. again this is about fujitora. since he is the one, most of the fans use to downgrade admirals bt at the same time we know from fujitora's own words that he was still getting hang of his own fruit. so we may not know for how long bt we know for a fact he is new to DF too. not new as sabo but still new. so considering that we still dnt know much abt his DF strength or his own

and finally abt wt akainu says on how low they are on man power to break two yonko apart. which is very obvious coz garp and some marines(may be other vice admirals as well) are now deployed to return kings and royal families back to their homes. and also marines now hv to deal with shichibukai termination. we already saw lots or troups are deployed on that since now they hv to deal with weevil,mihawk,boa hancock all at the same time. since we never saw any admiral at marineford most probably kizaru is sent for weevil (he knew abt him more than anyone) , fujitora for boa hancock since he is blind and most probably greenbull for mihawk which is not sure bt most likely. with wt we saw only one available was akainu himself at MF and he cant leave that place without anyone to look after it. even then it would take 2 admirals minimum since we got both kaido and big mom and their troops as well. so marines been low on man power was quite the obvious given the situation.

yonko having legendary names is understandable since they roam freely. they fight,rampage and conquer freely without any boundaries to wt they should do or shouldnt . bt at the same time admirals can't do that. they cant attack and fight freely as they want. they are for obvious reasons bound by laws and orders. they cant make a name for themselves if they arent allowed to roam or rampage as they please. even garp who was legendary was only called as the hero of marines. he didnt get any monstrous title for himself like WSM,WSC . same scenario explains how it helped garp being a vice admiral, for taking a name for himself. he kind of had more freedom compared to admirals since they were under the direct order of celestial dragons.

so taking everything to consideration i think its still too early to jump to any conclusions. unless oda proves it with manga clearly if yonko> admirals while going all out
 

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can u tell me wt they said coz i dnt remember any sort of such a thing. sorry to trouble u though 😅

its true abt fujitora and other yonko. bt its too early for comparisons IMO. fujitora and greenbull have been promoted recently bt we still do know next to nothing abt their power. heck we still hvnt even seen how greenbull looks like :LOL: wt my take on admirals is that we never once saw any of them fight seriously or sometimes they were at huge disadvantage due to locations. example would be
1. MF battle. their utmost priority was to protect MF (and killing ace which is obvious) otherwise MF would be like PH if akainu and aokiji went rampage on pirates

2.fujitora's acting in dressrosa arc. this guy never fought sabo,luffy seriously for obvious reasons.he didnt even participate to help take down doffy bar that push against bird cage. which was the least he could to do since he didnt want navy to gain any praise for taking down doffy. and for comparing rubble feat with bird cage is not quite right when we look at their intentions. bird cage was quite like an end game from doffy while we still dont know a glimpse of wt fujitora's end game would look like. he used rubble to attack pirates who were trying to flee in their ships and helped clean dressrosa at the same time. and he took zero effort in doing so. not only that he fought luffy while still controlling them at the air. i know lot of guys try to bring up how kaido one shotted luffy when they all forgets how luffy in G3 damaged kaido in his dragon form and knocked him out to his human form. all fujitora did was defending against luffy's G3 attacks while not using haki and the only time he went offensive he sent luffy flying away. not only that we all saw how grateful he was towards luffy for saving dressrosa even though he was supposed to capture him. so the guy was never serious on taking luffy on even kill him.

3. the recent fujitora and greenbull vs sabo and revolutionaries. we dnt know wt happened on that battle.and we saw fujitora being injured as well. so its not good to talk abt it right now as we dnt know wt actually happened. bt as far as the details goes we know sabo and rev attacked on mariejois. again for wt we know admirals are at a disadvantage with the location. they cant harm mariejois while fighting. in other words they wouldnt be able to go all out. if u can remember when akainu asked greenbull to send fujitora away fujitora asks shall we go against each other and greenbull reply that he dnt want to bt if anything else he didnt want to destroy the whole place if he could help. implying if went out at each other the place would be destroyed which shouldnt be their job. so in fact even though two admirals were there to fight they at a clear disadvantage while fighting sabo and the co. they probably had to play defense at fight which would explain fujitora's wound plus anyone shouldnt take on sabo lightly as he is now getting hang of his devil fruit.

4. kizaru vs rayleigh. which was the probably the only time admiral could hv went all out if he wanted. bt sadly that admiral was kizaru. the guy is more of a trolling character. he trolling so hard we dnt even know when he would be serious or not. we all know that battle didnt prolonged as kuma sent away strawhats and fighting was over

5. again this is about fujitora. since he is the one, most of the fans use to downgrade admirals bt at the same time we know from fujitora's own words that he was still getting hang of his own fruit. so we may not know for how long bt we know for a fact he is new to DF too. not new as sabo but still new. so considering that we still dnt know much abt his DF strength or his own

and finally abt wt akainu says on how low they are on man power to break two yonko apart. which is very obvious coz garp and some marines(may be other vice admirals as well) are now deployed to return kings and royal families back to their homes. and also marines now hv to deal with shichibukai termination. we already saw lots or troups are deployed on that since now they hv to deal with weevil,mihawk,boa hancock all at the same time. since we never saw any admiral at marineford most probably kizaru is sent for weevil (he knew abt him more than anyone) , fujitora for boa hancock since he is blind and most probably greenbull for mihawk which is not sure bt most likely. with wt we saw only one available was akainu himself at MF and he cant leave that place without anyone to look after it. even then it would take 2 admirals minimum since we got both kaido and big mom and their troops as well. so marines been low on man power was quite the obvious given the situation.

yonko having legendary names is understandable since they roam freely. they fight,rampage and conquer freely without any boundaries to wt they should do or shouldnt . bt at the same time admirals can't do that. they cant attack and fight freely as they want. they are for obvious reasons bound by laws and orders. they cant make a name for themselves if they arent allowed to roam or rampage as they please. even garp who was legendary was only called as the hero of marines. he didnt get any monstrous title for himself like WSM,WSC . same scenario explains how it helped garp being a vice admiral, for taking a name for himself. he kind of had more freedom compared to admirals since they were under the direct order of celestial dragons.

so taking everything to consideration i think its still too early to jump to any conclusions. unless oda proves it with manga clearly if yonko> admirals while going all out
the chapter I am talking about is 432 where garp talks about the need to have the warlords to have a balance in power against the yonkos

Well the thing is fujitora gaining power is not guaranteed and even the other admirals are not as hyped as the yonko.

let’s not act like white beard wasn’t at a disadvantage, he could have wrecked all of marineford with multiple earthquakes, even Blackbeard hit the whole place with more raw power in the end but wb had all his allies so he can’t just break the Island. Also by feats admirals could have done better.

If akainu was truly an equal to white beard, he should have beat white beard mid difficulty, but what happened he instead fell into a hole albeit damaging wb well. And this is while wb was constantly having heart attacks, did not have good observation Haki like he used to meaning he took many avoidable hits, as well as being old and had other damage before facing akainu. If kaido or big mom had that much of an advantage that fight would’ve ended earlier with not as high degree of difficulty.

Fujitora has no incentive to go easy on luffy and that is why he was going to bombard them with rubble, the citizens did save him but luffy did well for someone injured and not having access to his best abilities.

kaido was drunk as a fish and treated luffy like an insect, the degree of difficulty was very low for him to take out luffy.

its a fair point on notoriety but the way marines get it is by actually taking down big pirates which is what garp was able to do. And anyone who thinks garp is an equal to zephyr or even sengoku is kidding themselves. A lot of what we base strength on is hype and unless there are drastic events or new information regarding admirals we can say that as of right now from a portrayal perspective yonko have the edge.
 
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SaitamaSanji

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the chapter I am talking about is 432 where garp talks about the need to have the warlords to have a balance in power against the yonkos
so wts ur take on it? four emperors = marines+ shichibukai or 1 emperor = marines+shichibukai?

Well the thing is fujitora gaining power is not guaranteed and even the other admirals are not as hyped as the yonko.
gaining power is not guaranteed such as haki may be. pretty sure both new admirals already got highest level of mastery they could get by now. bt wt im talking abt is fujitora's room to improve his DF prowess. which is a fact since he himself admitted he is still getting used to it. i already addressed abt that part abt hype. how yonko can make a name for themselves while admirals are bound by orders. remember doffy said that both greenbull and fujitora were absolute monsters bt flamingo fearlessly attacked fujitora when he got pissed. fans use this scene and the fact doffy feared kaido to back it up as how admirals are weaker to yonko. which in a sense can be true bt at the same time doffy was already a shichibukai. they are protected by rules itself. admirals cant just go for the kill against someone protected by WG. doffy got the advantage of it plus fujitora never really wanted for marines to get praise of defeating doffy or otherwise his scheme for abolishing shichibukai would be a failure. the whole defensive take from fujitora was an act all along. adding to above doffy simply retreated when aokiji showed up. he by that time was not a marine so doffy knew he wont get his 'warlord' advantage against aokiji. and for doffy fearing kaido is mostly thanks to kaido's ruthlessness nature. the same doffy laughed his ass off when WB was rampaging at MF. never even once we saw him getting fear by the idea of WB attacking

let’s not act like white beard wasn’t at a disadvantage, he could have wrecked all of marineford with multiple earthquakes, even Blackbeard hit the whole place with more raw power in the end but wb had all his allies so he can’t just break the Island. Also by feats admirals could have done better.
well i agree he had to care abt the place as well bt not as much as navy. coz that was their own base. while i agree with wt u said remember WB started the war with huge tsunamis which could hv flooded the whole MF including ace. some would say he knew aokiji would stop it bt wts the point of creating such huge tsunamis if u know it will do zero damage to MF. and when WB attacked vice admiral john giant he tilted whole MF and oceans while his own allies was their as well. and finally WB used his most powerful attack which split MF in half on akainu when he got angry after ace was killed which killed his whole purpose for being there. bt from admrials point of view thats their main base. they cant function their full capabilities of awakening if it destroys the MF. even when akainu encountered WB he kept saying to stop destroying the island. while someone like akainu wont care abt his fellow marines he cared abt the island and the base of them while wb cared abt his crews he didnt cared abt MF getting destroyed if his attacks helps

If akainu was truly an equal to white beard, he should have beat white beard mid difficulty, but what happened he instead fell into a hole albeit damaging wb well. And this is while wb was constantly having heart attacks, did not have good observation Haki like he used to meaning he took many avoidable hits, as well as being old and had other damage before facing akainu. If kaido or big mom had that much of an advantage that fight would’ve ended earlier with not as high degree of difficulty.
that point is moot. coz akainu did fought wb equally on his first encounter till wb got his heart attack. and then wt happens is questionable akainu leave a hole on his chest and leave WB. like wt the hell. he could hv finish him right there bt he left him there to other marines troops and left. if u ask me the reason i would say oda wont just let a yonko being killed half way through that arc. i think wt he wanted to imply is that wb was not himself like he was at old times and at the same time akainu didnt care abt WBs death as much as he cared abt luffy's and ace's. plus wb was never healing from that wound. starting from that it was only a matter of time for WB IMO. even if things went good for him he would last only a day or 2. bt with akainu's second attack on his head made things even quicker for me. so for me even though akainu's first encounter with wb was more of equal the outcome of that battle was questionable as for why akainu didnt finish him off when he had the chance. and the second encounter was all personal from wb's point of view. the guy was pissed as hell after ace's death. and not only that he blindsided akainu the very first time which from that point onwards was never a one on one head to head scenario. wb simply went for the kill coz i dnt see any reason for him to care abt akainu at that point. his second attack on akainu confirms this as he split whole MF in half just to break akainu. bt this fight is never on the favour of wb since not only wb's attacks failed to kill akainu bt at the same time he got half of his face roasted. lets forget abt wb failing to kill akainu bt the guy could take on YCs,ivanko,jinbei,crocodile,inazuma with no problem after that. kaido and BM being stronger than akainu is speculation for now since we only get to see wb vs akainu with several factors bound them from going all out

Fujitora has no incentive to go easy on luffy and that is why he was going to bombard them with rubble, the citizens did save him but luffy did well for someone injured and not having access to his best abilities.
u still forget that fujitora do hv to play his role as an admiral. he need to act like he is doing his job. remember when fujitora went to the port with all the rubble navy stopped considering to sent back up to that port since they thought fujitora was going all out which was pretty much enough. it actually helped luffy and the crew other marine forces were not there to witness fujitora letting them go. fujitora even got caught by sengoku when he was giving his gratitude towards luffy for saving the country. can u really compare someone like kaido who doesnt care a bit abt luffy and fujitora from those scenarios?

kaido was drunk as a fish and treated luffy like an insect, the degree of difficulty was very low for him to take out luffy.
yes bt luffy knocked him out to his human form just with his G3 attacks which we cant ignore as well. same with how jinbei sent BM away from sunny. the thing is yonko do have their own kind of weaknesses bt people wont see them. and i think its not quite right to ask if fujitora or other admirals be able to survive G4 attacks like kaido did. since kaido having almost indestructible body like BM is their own trait of strength. u cant expect someone like shanks or BB to survive G4 punches in their base mode like kaido did and say that they are much weaker than kaido since they wouldnt display such feats. each top tier characters got different strength. even wb would get some bruises if he had to take G4 attacks head on since his body can be pierced through swords bt kaido's wont

its a fair point on notoriety but the way marines get it is by actually taking down big pirates which is what garp was able to do. And anyone who thinks garp is an equal to zephyr or even sengoku is kidding themselves. A lot of what we base strength on is hype and unless there are drastic events or new information regarding admirals we can say that as of right now from a portrayal perspective yonko have the edge.
garp like i said previously had the freedom to do so. sengoku implies this better when he said garp didnt want to work directly under CDs. admiral rank itself will bound u up to higher order. think abt it.whenever something happens marines mostly sent vice admirals, buster calls. and for saying garp is on a whole new level compared to sengoku and z is not true. think abt it as this. garp is mostly like akainu who wants to fight pirates and stop them while sengoku is more like kizaru who doesnt actually give a shit abt it. just play his role for his job's sake. if u ask me who is stronger between sengoku and garp answer is obviously garp bt he aint on a whole different level. im not saying he aint exceptional he definitely is bt still the same tier. if u consider pirate king level is different than yonko level then yes garp is also on a different scale bt if u do not then he isnt.its like even among the top tier there are some exceptional cases. from pirate perspective u can clearly see that roger and wb were exceptional cases compared to the like of kaido,BM,shanks. and garp is the same compared to other admirals like sengoku. if thats wt u mean then yes i agree. bt for me admirals and yonko are in the same tier with some exceptional cases among them. its like in previous era had roger,garp,wb,rocks. and current era got BB,akainu,luffy,aokiji in that manner

im sorry my replies are much longer 😬😬 i will try to brief em up next time
 

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so wts ur take on it? four emperors = marines+ shichibukai or 1 emperor = marines+shichibukai?



gaining power is not guaranteed such as haki may be. pretty sure both new admirals already got highest level of mastery they could get by now. bt wt im talking abt is fujitora's room to improve his DF prowess. which is a fact since he himself admitted he is still getting used to it. i already addressed abt that part abt hype. how yonko can make a name for themselves while admirals are bound by orders. remember doffy said that both greenbull and fujitora were absolute monsters bt flamingo fearlessly attacked fujitora when he got pissed. fans use this scene and the fact doffy feared kaido to back it up as how admirals are weaker to yonko. which in a sense can be true bt at the same time doffy was already a shichibukai. they are protected by rules itself. admirals cant just go for the kill against someone protected by WG. doffy got the advantage of it plus fujitora never really wanted for marines to get praise of defeating doffy or otherwise his scheme for abolishing shichibukai would be a failure. the whole defensive take from fujitora was an act all along. adding to above doffy simply retreated when aokiji showed up. he by that time was not a marine so doffy knew he wont get his 'warlord' advantage against aokiji. and for doffy fearing kaido is mostly thanks to kaido's ruthlessness nature. the same doffy laughed his ass off when WB was rampaging at MF. never even once we saw him getting fear by the idea of WB attacking



well i agree he had to care abt the place as well bt not as much as navy. coz that was their own base. while i agree with wt u said remember WB started the war with huge tsunamis which could hv flooded the whole MF including ace. some would say he knew aokiji would stop it bt wts the point of creating such huge tsunamis if u know it will do zero damage to MF. and when WB attacked vice admiral john giant he tilted whole MF and oceans while his own allies was their as well. and finally WB used his most powerful attack which split MF in half on akainu when he got angry after ace was killed which killed his whole purpose for being there. bt from admrials point of view thats their main base. they cant function their full capabilities of awakening if it destroys the MF. even when akainu encountered WB he kept saying to stop destroying the island. while someone like akainu wont care abt his fellow marines he cared abt the island and the base of them while wb cared abt his crews he didnt cared abt MF getting destroyed if his attacks helps



that point is moot. coz akainu did fought wb equally on his first encounter till wb got his heart attack. and then wt happens is questionable akainu leave a hole on his chest and leave WB. like wt the hell. he could hv finish him right there bt he left him there to other marines troops and left. if u ask me the reason i would say oda wont just let a yonko being killed half way through that arc. i think wt he wanted to imply is that wb was not himself like he was at old times and at the same time akainu didnt care abt WBs death as much as he cared abt luffy's and ace's. plus wb was never healing from that wound. starting from that it was only a matter of time for WB IMO. even if things went good for him he would last only a day or 2. bt with akainu's second attack on his head made things even quicker for me. so for me even though akainu's first encounter with wb was more of equal the outcome of that battle was questionable as for why akainu didnt finish him off when he had the chance. and the second encounter was all personal from wb's point of view. the guy was pissed as hell after ace's death. and not only that he blindsided akainu the very first time which from that point onwards was never a one on one head to head scenario. wb simply went for the kill coz i dnt see any reason for him to care abt akainu at that point. his second attack on akainu confirms this as he split whole MF in half just to break akainu. bt this fight is never on the favour of wb since not only wb's attacks failed to kill akainu bt at the same time he got half of his face roasted. lets forget abt wb failing to kill akainu bt the guy could take on YCs,ivanko,jinbei,crocodile,inazuma with no problem after that. kaido and BM being stronger than akainu is speculation for now since we only get to see wb vs akainu with several factors bound them from going all out



u still forget that fujitora do hv to play his role as an admiral. he need to act like he is doing his job. remember when fujitora went to the port with all the rubble navy stopped considering to sent back up to that port since they thought fujitora was going all out which was pretty much enough. it actually helped luffy and the crew other marine forces were not there to witness fujitora letting them go. fujitora even got caught by sengoku when he was giving his gratitude towards luffy for saving the country. can u really compare someone like kaido who doesnt care a bit abt luffy and fujitora from those scenarios?



yes bt luffy knocked him out to his human form just with his G3 attacks which we cant ignore as well. same with how jinbei sent BM away from sunny. the thing is yonko do have their own kind of weaknesses bt people wont see them. and i think its not quite right to ask if fujitora or other admirals be able to survive G4 attacks like kaido did. since kaido having almost indestructible body like BM is their own trait of strength. u cant expect someone like shanks or BB to survive G4 punches in their base mode like kaido did and say that they are much weaker than kaido since they wouldnt display such feats. each top tier characters got different strength. even wb would get some bruises if he had to take G4 attacks head on since his body can be pierced through swords bt kaido's wont



garp like i said previously had the freedom to do so. sengoku implies this better when he said garp didnt want to work directly under CDs. admiral rank itself will bound u up to higher order. think abt it.whenever something happens marines mostly sent vice admirals, buster calls. and for saying garp is on a whole new level compared to sengoku and z is not true. think abt it as this. garp is mostly like akainu who wants to fight pirates and stop them while sengoku is more like kizaru who doesnt actually give a shit abt it. just play his role for his job's sake. if u ask me who is stronger between sengoku and garp answer is obviously garp bt he aint on a whole different level. im not saying he aint exceptional he definitely is bt still the same tier. if u consider pirate king level is different than yonko level then yes garp is also on a different scale bt if u do not then he isnt.its like even among the top tier there are some exceptional cases. from pirate perspective u can clearly see that roger and wb were exceptional cases compared to the like of kaido,BM,shanks. and garp is the same compared to other admirals like sengoku. if thats wt u mean then yes i agree. bt for me admirals and yonko are in the same tier with some exceptional cases among them. its like in previous era had roger,garp,wb,rocks. and current era got BB,akainu,luffy,aokiji in that manner

im sorry my replies are much longer 😬😬 i will try to brief em up next time
My take on it is all 4 emperors = marines + warlords


I’m not discussing doffy here so I’ll leave that part

If anyone got a free hit on wb vs Akainu, it’s akainu he got a free hit right after a heart attack, it’s not guarantee he would have killed him if akainu kept attacking. Second akainu also got a clean hole near the chest before the fight even started which can aggravate heart attacks and this was done by his manipulation of squardo.

So let’s see here akainu had the benefit of multiple injuries to wb. And akainu got hit damn well knowing white beard was behind him, if he was any better with ken haki it should be avoidable you know what wb had prior to his illness where he can dodge in his sleep.

white beard only went closer to all out when ace died but by then he was almost dead. What Akainu did was absolutely inferior to any yonko’s hype, kaido is near indestructible with great attack power if he had been in the same position that fight would have been over a lot sooner.

Fujitora becoming better later is irrelevant at this moment, them as a military unit at the moment is inferior to yonko captains.

luffy hitting kaido doing 0 damage is not impressive to me and that was him going all out. Idk in what world that was impressive, he also got tossed by big mom who took his best attack and didn’t even flinch

On the garp point what I mean is he is exceptional, he is not a tier above sengoku but he is better than him by a reasonable margin. Also sengoku isn’t like kizaru, he was quite vigilant. And don’t get me started on Z, Garp by hype is quite a bit above him by that I mean if they fight it’s a lower end of high diff for garp with the advantage.
 
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SaitamaSanji

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My take on it is all 4 emperors = marines + warlords
so there aint much discuss here since yonko got strong commanders compared to the likes of vice admirals. which is why shichibukai is there to fill it up from my point of view. i know u wont agree bt for me 4 admirals including fleet admiral counter balance four emperors

I’m not discussing doffy here so I’ll leave that part
yh sure i just got carried away with it. bt i mostly addressed coz those are some questions normally anyone would rose in these kind admiral vs yonko debates

If anyone got a free hit on wb vs Akainu, it’s akainu he got a free hit right after a heart attack, it’s not guarantee he would have killed him if akainu kept attacking. Second akainu also got a clean hole near the chest before the fight even started which can aggravate heart attacks and this was done by his manipulation of squardo.
well it took akainu only one hit to take out half of WB's face. so akainu after punching a hole through WB's chest why didnt he went for the head? this is why akainu vs wb both encounters are not good scenarios to actually debate upon. bt sadly thats the only thing we hv in the story to speculate on how a fight would go between an emperor and admiral

So let’s see here akainu had the benefit of multiple injuries to wb. And akainu got hit damn well knowing white beard was behind him, if he was any better with ken haki it should be avoidable you know what wb had prior to his illness where he can dodge in his sleep.
having future sight wont always guarantee that u will be able to dodge it. for an example if two guys fought while having future sight the fight would be endless or rather a paradox since both may see wts gonna happen in a moment of future so no one will get a clean hit.bt how future sight actually works is with the focus and clear mind they are on. if for a moment one looses his focus or loose his mind then he can get a hit. akainu was all focus on killing luffy and at that certain point he was focusing on marco. the fact is we already saw how akainu easily dodged marco and vistas attack when he fought them head on. bt wb came out of nowhere. its not like akainu was doing nothing and wb showed up behind him. akainu was already in a fight with marco head on. so with his focus on something else i really dnt know if we can argue abt his haki abilities. and speed is also a factor here since even with future sight if u r a fast enough then u can get a clean hit without much problem. and we dnt know how fast wb acted in his rage mode

white beard only went closer to all out when ace died but by then he was almost dead. What Akainu did was absolutely inferior to any yonko’s hype, kaido is near indestructible with great attack power if he had been in the same position that fight would have been over a lot sooner.
well i quite disagree with it. since we dont hv any evidence if kaido would be able to tank that raged wb's attack which split MF in half. wb being almost dead is true bt at the same moment the guy was on rage mode. wb didnt split MF becoz he wanted. wt he actually wanted was to kill akainu in that brief moment and the split of MF was just an after effect of it. so far we never saw an attack as powerful as that. even after we saw BM's rampage she didnt quite display an attack powerful enough to split an island in half. its acutualy impressive from akainu since he didnt receive any lasting damage on him. like wt aokiji gave to him

Fujitora becoming better later is irrelevant at this moment, them as a military unit at the moment is inferior to yonko captains.
its relevant since if someone still has a room for improvement we need to consider it as well. same can be said for BB too. even though he is considered a yonko he still got more room to develop

luffy hitting kaido doing 0 damage is not impressive to me and that was him going all out. Idk in what world that was impressive, he also got tossed by big mom who took his best attack and didn’t even flinch
he did knock him out to his human form though thats wt im saying. plus wt i'm trying to say is even though shanks and BB are emperors they wont still be able to take G4 attacks head on like kaido did. bt does that mean they arent yonko level? no its that having strong body is trait for kaido and even BM. bt other yonko got their own way of dealing with stuff. like DF and haki strength. thats the same with admirals. u expect them to hv the same trait of physical ability kaido shows. which they wont bt they got other ways to deal with things

On the garp point what I mean is he is exceptional, he is not a tier above sengoku but he is better than him by a reasonable margin. Also sengoku isn’t like kizaru, he was quite vigilant. And don’t get me started on Z, Garp by hype is quite a bit above him by that I mean if they fight it’s a lower end of high diff for garp with the advantage.
yh thats right sengoku is more similar to aokiji than kizaru. which i think the reason why he appointed aokiji as his successor. BTW we know nothing abt characters like z since we cant take movie as canon stuff even though the character is canon. so i wont try to compare z with garp for now. for me garp is an exceptional case like how roger and wb were. bt i explained previously how i feel abt both marines and pirates having such exceptional cases
 

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so there aint much discuss here since yonko got strong commanders compared to the likes of vice admirals. which is why shichibukai is there to fill it up from my point of view. i know u wont agree bt for me 4 admirals including fleet admiral counter balance four emperors



yh sure i just got carried away with it. bt i mostly addressed coz those are some questions normally anyone would rose in these kind admiral vs yonko debates



well it took akainu only one hit to take out half of WB's face. so akainu after punching a hole through WB's chest why didnt he went for the head? this is why akainu vs wb both encounters are not good scenarios to actually debate upon. bt sadly thats the only thing we hv in the story to speculate on how a fight would go between an emperor and admiral



having future sight wont always guarantee that u will be able to dodge it. for an example if two guys fought while having future sight the fight would be endless or rather a paradox since both may see wts gonna happen in a moment of future so no one will get a clean hit.bt how future sight actually works is with the focus and clear mind they are on. if for a moment one looses his focus or loose his mind then he can get a hit. akainu was all focus on killing luffy and at that certain point he was focusing on marco. the fact is we already saw how akainu easily dodged marco and vistas attack when he fought them head on. bt wb came out of nowhere. its not like akainu was doing nothing and wb showed up behind him. akainu was already in a fight with marco head on. so with his focus on something else i really dnt know if we can argue abt his haki abilities. and speed is also a factor here since even with future sight if u r a fast enough then u can get a clean hit without much problem. and we dnt know how fast wb acted in his rage mode



well i quite disagree with it. since we dont hv any evidence if kaido would be able to tank that raged wb's attack which split MF in half. wb being almost dead is true bt at the same moment the guy was on rage mode. wb didnt split MF becoz he wanted. wt he actually wanted was to kill akainu in that brief moment and the split of MF was just an after effect of it. so far we never saw an attack as powerful as that. even after we saw BM's rampage she didnt quite display an attack powerful enough to split an island in half. its acutualy impressive from akainu since he didnt receive any lasting damage on him. like wt aokiji gave to him



its relevant since if someone still has a room for improvement we need to consider it as well. same can be said for BB too. even though he is considered a yonko he still got more room to develop



he did knock him out to his human form though thats wt im saying. plus wt i'm trying to say is even though shanks and BB are emperors they wont still be able to take G4 attacks head on like kaido did. bt does that mean they arent yonko level? no its that having strong body is trait for kaido and even BM. bt other yonko got their own way of dealing with stuff. like DF and haki strength. thats the same with admirals. u expect them to hv the same trait of physical ability kaido shows. which they wont bt they got other ways to deal with things



yh thats right sengoku is more similar to aokiji than kizaru. which i think the reason why he appointed aokiji as his successor. BTW we know nothing abt characters like z since we cant take movie as canon stuff even though the character is canon. so i wont try to compare z with garp for now. for me garp is an exceptional case like how roger and wb were. bt i explained previously how i feel abt both marines and pirates having such exceptional cases
Yea that point is that the military forces of the yonko are superior to the marines alone.

Whitebeard at that point was still in better shape to defend himself, the point is akainu underperformed for someone with so many advantages. akainu wasn’t attacking luffy and he was told wb was behind him he had enough time to dodge but he’s not great ken user, wb was said that he can avoid even sneak attacks from comrades and in this case it was an obvious attack but again Akainu still got wayy more in terms of freebies

It’s a good durability feat but it’s only one attack, it’s not multiple attacks which is why aokiji vs akainu had lasting effects. Kaido has the highest durability in the show so I’m sure he will be fine. If you argue against that you are arguing the manga.

Yea that’s possible future growth that means at the moment he’s not equal to a yonko. This is obvious by feats also tbh.

Kaido’s durability is not the main point, it’s that both big mom and him took out a Yonko top commander level character with no difficulty where as fujitora did not. Even kizaru couldn’t casually beat Marco like that and actually didn’t beat him at all. Shanks fights with a sword so his durability or raw strength isn’t his main strength so idk your point on that was.

yonko have more of these exceptional cases. Kaido is the strongest of this generation. Whitebeard after roger’s era is the strongest until he became too old and ill. Roger and Rox and whitebeard are all exceptionally strong. Kaido is for this generation of pirates. Garp is the only one so far that fits this category from the marines.

Z and crew lost to a schibukai, he was never in talks to be at the level of garp.
 
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