[VS] Pica vs Vergo

[ToshiZO]

I also judge difficulty on the threat of losing the fight or atleast being pressured. Against Pica there is almost a 0% chance Zoro loses or is even threatened in any way.

Smoker vs Law is a good example of a fight with no injuries but of decent difficulty. And this is because despite Law not suffering injuries.
1.He was being pressured the whole way
2. threatened to lose the fight if he wasn't on his toes.

Pica did not meet those demands. It was most definitely not a high difficulty fight, not even close.

It was at the lowest end of mid diff and that's being extremely generous. More like a low-mid. Him needing help from the King is irrelevant as Pica wasn't even fighting Zoro at that point, he basically fled the scene. Fleeing a battle does not increase the difficulty of a fight.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I also judge difficulty on the threat of losing the fight or atleast being pressured. Against Pica there is almost a 0% chance Zoro loses or is even threatened in any way.

Smoker vs Law is a good example of a fight with no injuries but of decent difficulty. And this is because despite Law not suffering injuries.
1.He was being pressured the whole way
2. threatened to lose the fight if he wasn't on his toes.

Pica did not meet those demands. It was most definitely not a high difficulty fight, not even close.

It was at the lowest end of mid diff and that's being extremely generous. More like a low-mid. Him needing help from the King is irrelevant as Pica wasn't even fighting Zoro at that point, he basically fled the scene. Fleeing a battle does not increase the difficulty of a fight.

So you're telling me how much it takes to defeat the opponent isn't a factor in determining how hard it was to defeat them?

Difficulty is how hard it was to defeat the opponent, which is why it's called DIFFICULTY. What you're doing is using danger and difficulty interchangeably; you're going "Pica wasn't dangerous to Zoro so it was easy," which makes no sense. Was Pica a high danger to Zoro? No. But was he easy to defeat? No. Danger and difficulty can be related, an opponent can be harder to defeat because they are extremely dangerous, or extremely dangerous because they're hard to defeat, but they aren't the same thing. A dangerous opponent can be defeated easily, or a non-dangerous opponent can be hard to defeat.

Example of the former: Law's power is very dangerous, but Doflamingo would only have medium difficulty defeating him. Example of the latter, Pica isn't dangerous to Zoro, but it's high difficulty for Zoro to defeat him because Pica is hard to catch.

Diff isn't how dangerous the opponent is, it's how hard it is to defeat the opponent. Danger is one factor, evasiveness is another.

 

[KingHashirama]

Was he fighting Zoro 90% of the time? no

Was he avoiding Zoro 90% of the time? yes

Did he get wrecked by Zoro when he tried to engage in a fight with him 100% of the time? Yes.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Was he fighting Zoro 90% of the time? no

Was he avoiding Zoro 90% of the time? yes

Did he get wrecked by Zoro when he tried to engage in a fight with him 100% of the time? Yes.

So what? The fight consisted of Pica knowing he couldn't harm Zoro, so he kept him busy by evasion and stalling. The fight consisted of Pica doing whatever it took to make it harder for Zoro to catch him. Just because it wasn't as impressive as fighting head on doesn't mean it wasn't still a fight. Avoiding Zoro 90% of the time was simply his method during the fight. Fighting someone isn't just being offensive.

Was it easy or hard for Zoro to catch Pica?

 

[ToshiZO]

So you're telling me how much it takes to defeat the opponent isn't a factor in determining how hard it was to defeat them?

Difficulty is how hard it was to defeat the opponent, which is why it's called DIFFICULTY. What you're doing is using danger and difficulty interchangeably, which makes no sense. Was Pica a high danger to Zoro? No. But was he easy to defeat? No.

No it certainly is a factor. Otherwise it would be a no diff fight if I was following only the criteria I stated above. You have to take in
1.Energy spent
2.State of mind (was Zoro playing around or dead serious from the start?)
3.How far was he pushed (in terms of trying, did he use his strongest attacks, did he go all out?)
4.Injuries
5.Amount of pressure felt
6.Chances of losing

there are other criteria as well but IMO for it to be a high difficulty fight one of the last two have to be met if no damage was taken.
In this case really only criteria number one was filled (energy spent) a decent amount.

This fight is forever bound to mid difficulty at best because it misses out on too many of the criteria required (injuries, threat level, and pressure being the ones that stand out).

EDIT: I already said fleeing does not count towards the difficulty of the fight. The only time difficulty is taken into account is when both opponents are facing one another. Leaving to hurt someone else across the city isn't saying much, its the only reason Zoro needed help because he was leaving the battle.

 

[KingHashirama]

So what? The fight consisted of Pica knowing he couldn't harm Zoro, so he kept him busy by evasion and stalling. The fight consisted of Pica doing whatever it took to make it harder for Zoro to catch him. Just because it wasn't as impressive as fighting head on doesn't mean it wasn't still a fight. Avoiding Zoro 90% of the time was simply his method during the fight. Fighting someone isn't just being offensive.

Was it easy or hard for Zoro to catch Pica?

It wasn't a fight.. until Pica actually focused on Zoro. You need 2 people going against each other for it to be a fight.

The only times it was a fight, was when Pica attempted to actually focus on Zoro, but 90% of the times, he was trying to avoid Zoro and do some other BS. Because he didn't want to fight Zoro.

And when he thought Zoro was in a good position for him to take on Zoro.. he got wrecked.

 

[Punk Hazard]

No it certainly is a factor. Otherwise it would be a no diff fight if I was following only the criteria I stated above. You have to take in
1.Energy spent
2.State of mind (was Zoro playing around or dead serious from the start?)
3.How far was he pushed (in terms of trying, did he use his strongest attacks, did he go all out?)
4.Injuries
5.Amount of pressure felt
6.Chances of losing

there are other criteria as well but IMO for it to be a high difficulty fight one of the last two have to be met if no damage was taken.
In this case really only criteria number one was filled (energy spent) a decent amount.

This fight is forever bound to mid difficulty at best because it misses out on too many of the criteria required (injuries, threat level, and pressure being the ones that stand out).

It's quite ironic that how hard it was to defeat the opponent isn't included in your criteria in how hard it was to defeat the opponent. Carry on with your faulty system.

Also ironic that Zoro became dead serious during the fight(He only puts on his bandana when he's dead serious), spend energy trying to catch him and cutting through his reforming golem and was trying his best to catch him. Pica pushed Zoro to strategizing, something Zoro never does. I'm pretty sure if you force someone who has always been a brawler to stop brawling and think, you're making it hard for them.

It wasn't a fight.. until Pica actually focused on Zoro. You need 2 people going against each other for it to be a fight.

The only times it was a fight, was when Pica attempted to actually focus on Zoro, but 90% of the times, he was trying to avoid Zoro and do some other BS. Because he didn't want to fight Zoro.

And when he thought Zoro was in a good position for him to take on Zoro.. he got wrecked.

By this logic, it's only a fight if both people are on the offensive 100% of the time. Pica avoiding Zoro is still a fight. Or did you forget evasion is a part of a fight?

Pica was on the offensive btw, he attempted to injure Zoro multiple times by altering the terrain and with giant stone constructs. He failed to injure Zoro, but he still tried, and still made it hard for Zoro to injure him.

 

[ToshiZO]

It's quite ironic that how hard it was to defeat the opponent isn't included in your criteria in how hard it was to defeat the opponent. Carry on with your faulty system.

Also ironic that Zoro became dead serious during the fight(He only puts on his bandana when he's dead serious), spend energy trying to catch him and cutting through his reforming golem and was trying his best to catch him. Pica pushed Zoro to strategizing, something Zoro never does. I'm pretty sure if you force someone who has always been a brawler to stop brawling and think, you're making it hard for them.

Which is why its a mid diff fight. He made a brawler strategize. Hyozou also made Zoro put on his bandanna, I look into it (which is why mid diff is alright) but I wouldn't stress on that part.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Which is why its a mid diff fight. He made a brawler strategize. Hyozou also made Zoro put on his bandanna, I look into it (which is why mid diff is alright) but I wouldn't stress on that part.

Zoro put on his bandana before Hyozou because they were fighting 50,000 Fishmen. I'm pretty sure 10 people fighting 50,000 is enough to make them serious.

Simple questions: Are danger and difficulty the same thing? Was it easy for Zoro land a hit?

 

[ToshiZO]

Zoro put on his bandana before Hyozou because they were fighting 50,000 Fishmen. I'm pretty sure 10 people fighting 50,000 is enough to make them serious.

Simple questions: Are danger and difficulty the same thing? Was it easy for Zoro land a hit?

Zoro was not that serious against 50, 000 fishman lol. He made it a competition vs Sanji to see who can take more out, they were treating it like a game.

Danger is a part of the difficulty of a fight. If there is no danger in a fight, the difficulty of the fight will also be affected.

Lets say I am fighting a 6 year old and he keeps running away on his bike, it takes me about an hour to finally land a good hit on him and take him off his bike, there were no chances of me losing it was merely an annoyance.

Now lets say someone has a knife, he aims the knife at my head but I manage to dodge just in time and break his arm in one go. Fight lasted about 10 seconds.

Me I would definitely place the latter fight as a higher difficulty than the first example.

 

[KingHashirama]

By this logic, it's only a fight if both people are on the offensive 100% of the time. Pica avoiding Zoro is still a fight. Or did you forget evasion is a part of a fight?

Pica was on the offensive btw, he attempted to injure Zoro multiple times by altering the terrain and with giant stone constructs. He failed to injure Zoro, but he still tried, and still made it hard for Zoro to injure him.

Sadly, Pica wasn't even being defensive.

Running away and avoiding the fight =/= evasion. If someone is legit running away from fighting you, they can't claim they are fighting you, unless they engage in a battle with you.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Zoro was not that serious against 50, 000 fishman lol. He made it a competition vs Sanji to see who can take more out, they were treating it like a game.

Danger is a part of the difficulty of a fight. If there is no danger in a fight, the difficulty of the fight will also be affected.

Lets say I am fighting a 6 year old and he keeps running away on his bike, it takes me about an hour to finally land a good hit on him and take him off his bike, there were no chances of me losing it was merely an annoyance.

Now lets say someone has a knife, he aims the knife at my head but I manage to dodge just in time and break his arm in one go. Fight lasted about 10 seconds.

Me I would definitely place the latter fight as a higher difficulty than the first example.

>Only puts on bandana when serious about the situation
>put on the bandana against the fishmen
"he wasn't serious"
Yeah whatever Oda

Part of it. Not the deciding factor. So, no danger can affect the fight when there isn't another factor making up for it. How hard it was to attack your opponent is another factor, and if it is emphasized in a fight, it can make up for what it's lacking in danger. To properly illustrate what I'm saying, let's say a fight needs to reach at least 15 points to be high diff. Zoro vs Pica only had about 5 danger points, lackluster in comparison to other fights, but how hard it was for Zoro actually hit and defeat Pica was 10 points, reaching the difficulty. You're basically going "Oh the danger wasn't there, so it can't possibly be high diff." That would only make sense if danger is the only factor, which it is not.

It was still hard for you to actually finish the kid off since you had to chase him for an hour. I don't know if you've ever ran a day in your life, but running after someone for an hour is pretty ****ing hard.

How was that more difficult? How is disarming someone in a few seconds harder than someone pushing you to running for an hour? Once again, more dangerous=/=harder.

Sadly, Pica wasn't even being defensive.

Running away and avoiding the fight =/= evasion. If someone is legit running away from fighting you, they can't claim they are fighting you, unless they engage in a battle with you.

What? That's exactly what evasion is. Evading is avoiding a hit. Pica was doing that for most of the fight. Pica was engaging in a fight. Engaging in offense=/=engaging in a fight.

The problem with you and Toshi are you're both taking concepts that are related, but different, and lumping them into the same thing. If you are fighting someone and all you did was evade, you're still fighting them, you're just not on the offensive, you're on defensive by evading.

Evading is just dodging. Dodging is part of a fight. So dodging the entire fight is still being part of a fight.

 

[ToshiZO]

Well if you think example 1 was more difficult then there's not much more I can say here. I simply disagree.

Evading is just dodging. Dodging is part of a fight. So dodging the entire fight is still being part of a fight.

LOL this is hilarious. Might sig this. I know you meant something else with that last phrase but still.

 

[Kamui Sama]

Vergo probably wins handily in s1 but he never showed the destructive capacity to force Pica out of golem form so he loses s2

 

[Bogard]

Zoro vs Pica was a low diff. Running away from your opponent that you have to catch up to, to defeat doesn't increase the difficulty of the fight

As for this fight. It will end up in a stalemate. Pica can't tag Vergo, but Vergo lacks the destructive capacity to put the golem down.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

How can a fight be high diff if one person in the fight received no injuries and wasn't even going all out? That makes no sense.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well if you think example 1 was more difficult then there's not much more I can say here. I simply disagree.



LOL this is hilarious. Might sig this. I know you meant something else with that last phrase but still.

That's nice. It still doesn't change that evading and dodging attacks is just as much a part of fighting as throwing punches. Or did every time Lucci dodge a punch from Luffy, he was no longer fighting in that split second? Or when Luffy evaded Caesar's explosion, was the period he spent moving Luffy being on pause from the fight? Or Magellan standing still and letting his venom block attacks for him, was that also not fighting because he wasn't rushing his opponent 100% of the time?

People love to use speed feats to say a character can dodge in a fight, using the ability to avoid attacks to defend a character's victory in a fight, but when Pica does it in a non-badass, non-cool way, it's suddenly different, even when he was attacking Zoro? The hypocrisy is real.

Zoro vs Pica was a low diff. Running away from your opponent that you have to catch up to, to defeat doesn't increase the difficulty of the fight

As for this fight. It will end up in a stalemate. Pica can't tag Vergo, but Vergo lacks the destructive capacity to put the golem down.

Except Pica wasn't "just running away." He attacked Zoro several times, and evaded through the use of assimilating with the terrain. In reality, Pica just used his DF ability to heighten how hard it was for Zoro to land a hit. Logias do this all the time by letting non-Haki attacks pass through them. Is a Logia who lets every attack pass through him now not fighting as well because he used his DF ability to avoid being struck? Because that's what Pica did.

How can a fight be high diff if one person in the fight received no injuries and wasn't even going all out? That makes no sense.

Because difficulty in a fight is not determined by just how much damage you sustain and or how much of your strength you used. Difficulty in a fight is simply how hard was it for the winner to get that victory. If your opponent lacked the offensive power to scratch you, but had defensive capabilities so strong that it took you a long time and a lot of attacks to break it, then it can be a high diff fight.

For example, Luffy vs Blueno. Luffy in Gear 2 was mandhandling Blueno, with the latter being unable to land an attack, but it was still a mid-diff fight because his Tekkai was hard to crack and his DF allowed him to evade well.

Pica's DF ability made it hard for Zoro to strike him. The same way Logias turning intangible makes it hard for non-Haki fighters to strike them. The same way Magellan's venom made it hard for Luffy to srike him. Your views on the difficulty of a fight are laughably narrow, accounting for only two factors each time when many are and can be at play.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Pica can hide all he wants Vergo Bamboo stick plow through it until he's force to come out.​

 

[ToshiZO]

@Riker
Not once did I say evading isn't a legit feat in battle.
Only time I don't count it is when he literally left the battle to go pick on the weak, that is running away not evading. Him constantly changing positions with his DF is taken into account when I chose my difficulty. But because of the criteria he did not meet he is forever stuck at a mid diff fight at best. Never reaching into high diff territory.

I have it at a low-mid diff fight. Some can interpret it as a mid diff fight, high diff is out of bounds.

Your quote was still damn hilarious.

 

[Punk Hazard]

@Riker
Not once did I say evading isn't a legit feat in battle.
Only time I don't count it is when he literally left the battle to go pick on the weak, that is running away not evading. Him constantly changing positions with his DF is taken into account when I chose my difficulty. But because of the criteria he did not meet he is forever stuck at a mid diff fight at best. Never reaching into high diff territory.

I have it at a low-mid diff fight. Some can interpret it as a mid diff fight, high diff is out of bounds.

Your quote was still damn hilarious.

Luffy vs Doffy not a real fight because Doffy performed a move that target the weak confirmed.