Perfect Susanoo needs Rinnegan

Super Kami Guru

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
2,920
Reaction score
31
Inconclusive evidence, Also madara stated to beat the perfect susanoo hashirama would have needed to be alive, As he also stated he awaked rinnegan after the fight with hashirama.
Therefore he must have had perfect susanoo with the EMS to have used it against hashirama to know that hashirama could defeat it.

he states only hashirama is capable of defeating him because in all their fights he was the only one to defeat him.... no where does he say i had PS to fight hash like ive stated before we dont know what happened during that fight or what techniques either had
 

true enigma

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
2,232
Reaction score
121
Nagato only has rennegan abilities and not MS... that being said, he cannot use susanoo so your theory is prooven incorrect because the manga itself shows proof that susanoo is a ms tech. One needs EMS to resist blindness but besides that... that is all that is required.
 

Super Kami Guru

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
2,920
Reaction score
31
Nagato only has rennegan abilities and not MS... that being said, he cannot use susanoo so your theory is prooven incorrect because the manga itself shows proof that susanoo is a ms tech. One needs EMS to resist blindness but besides that... that is all that is required.

you dont think someones brought that up before and i havent tried proving it worong.... nagato apparently was given the rinnegan in the first place...(lets assume that isnt true anyways for now) he wasnt an uchiha and couldnt use ms techs youre right just like kakashi has ms and cant use anything other than kamui. Manga proves susanoo is an ms tech but doesnt say anything about its perfect form..... rinnegan is the next evolution to ems so why couldnt perfect require rinnegan
 

true enigma

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
2,232
Reaction score
121
you dont think someones brought that up before and i havent tried proving it worong.... nagato apparently was given the rinnegan in the first place...(lets assume that isnt true anyways for now) he wasnt an uchiha and couldnt use ms techs youre right just like kakashi has ms and cant use anything other than kamui. Manga proves susanoo is an ms tech but doesnt say anything about its perfect form..... rinnegan is the next evolution to ems so why couldnt perfect require rinnegan

Because if that was the case and rennegan can summon susanoo then nagato would have that ability... but he does not. So it is only logical to assume that a ms user can summon it since that is all the manga supports.
 

Super Kami Guru

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
2,920
Reaction score
31
Because if that was the case and rennegan can summon susanoo then nagato would have that ability... but he does not. So it is only logical to assume that a ms user can summon it since that is all the manga supports.

evolution of rinnegan doesnt mean nagato was an uchiha yet again like kakashi he cant use the ms' techniques just one's his eyes have aka the rinnegans displayed paths ability. so it doesnt mean having it he can just use all the abilities or kakashi would have susanoo.... which he doesnt only a true uchiha who awakens ms can use susanoo and when when progress to rinnegan they cant perfect the complete susanoo... that is my theory
 

Hatake Senju

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
94
Reaction score
5
Because if that was the case and rennegan can summon susanoo then nagato would have that ability... but he does not. So it is only logical to assume that a ms user can summon it since that is all the manga supports.

Susanoo is a MS technique. It is stregthened further by EMS. MS and EMS are sharingan dojutsu available only to Uchiha (kekkei genkai). Nagato is NOT an Uchiha. He cannot use Susanoo. Madara is an Uchiha and can use it along with techniques available to him through rinnegan (I.E. shinra tensei). Rinnegan strengthens susanoo, making it perfect (this is the theory). Uchiha+Rinnegan=Perfect Susanoo
 

ReXii

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
15,794
Reaction score
540
evolution of rinnegan doesnt mean nagato was an uchiha yet again like kakashi he cant use the ms' techniques just one's his eyes have aka the rinnegans displayed paths ability. so it doesnt mean having it he can just use all the abilities or kakashi would have susanoo.... which he doesnt only a true uchiha who awakens ms can use susanoo and when when progress to rinnegan they cant perfect the complete susanoo... that is my theory

Rinnegan isnt the final stage of the sharingan just for clarity, The way i see it the S06P had the rinnegan his son would have inherited the sharingan (His eyes) his other son inherited his body (Chakra levels etc) when both are again combined they can awaken the sages true power (The rinnegan).
I truly dont think susanoo in that form requires rinnegan not to mention you havent disproved my theory and to further back it up madara stated it has TB levels of power which would explain how he managed to combat hashirama who is believed to have taken control of the tailed beasts to fight madara.
 

true enigma

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
2,232
Reaction score
121
evolution of rinnegan doesnt mean nagato was an uchiha yet again like kakashi he cant use the ms' techniques just one's his eyes have aka the rinnegans displayed paths ability. so it doesnt mean having it he can just use all the abilities or kakashi would have susanoo.... which he doesnt only a true uchiha who awakens ms can use susanoo and when when progress to rinnegan they cant perfect the complete susanoo... that is my theory

It honestly seems far fetched to me but in the future im sure the manga would clear up this little circle of theories.
 

jspencer43

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
128
Reaction score
6
Look I'am not going to lie I didn't read it all because there are 12 pages. Rinnegan is not exactly just an evolved form of the sharingan .. that has all been taken the wrong way. Evolution is the same as growing, as time goes on or as you meet the necessary criteria you change based on what you currently have (I know the scientific meaning please don't be morons). In order to unlock the Rinnegan you need an outside source (Senju DNA + Uchia DNA + Sharingan). One person can not posses all naturally without breeding, its by combining indigence you get the resulted eyes. hence why kabuto believes even he can achieve the power. His experiment = Madara fighting kage!

The susanoo is an uchia/sharingan ability which is why neither pain/kakashi/Danzo were never able to summon him, I am not going to find all the info .. because well I can't be stuffed but sauske's early susanoo evolution came with experience and an emotional break. If you apply the same logic here then madara was the strongest from his clan he had the most battle experience and strength and the only one to be on par with harish (he pushed him self the same way sauske does). Tobi him self has said naruto/sauske is basicly harish/madara don't you think they would have been tough rivals. They fought on multiple occasions and those fight in the same sense with sauske would have pushed him further and further.

Taking all of this into account saying that PS requires rinnegan is the same as saying any bloodline limits require another clans DNA in order to achieve their perfect abilities. Rinnegan is the perfect power of S06P not the uchia, its the counter to naruto's chakra/endurance and body. (I use perfect power very loosely)

The story is moving away from senju/uchia and moving onto the beginning of the end which takes us back to S06P and those powers.

... Point is only perfect susanoo would only be able to be used by the S06P's oldest son and not Madara if Rinnegan was the requirement and not EMS.

p.s. In earlier mangas they spoke about the final fight between Madara/Harish to be hours long. Stop talking shit about what abilities they did/did not use. Kishi has not released that info yet and that includes the short clip with the both of them fighting. I imagine it will be shown as naruto and sauske fight, as in it will fade in and out of both fights.

If this is a little difficult to read, apologies I just finished a 12 hour day at work ... to tired to fix mistakes.

P.S on a technicality if Rinnegan was a requirement then any senju with rinnegan would be able to unlock susanoo as they all technically derive from the same clan and DNA .. you know 1 guy who had 2 sons .. both clans derive from the 2 sons.
 
Last edited:

teetooktier

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
350
Reaction score
28
Welp this is going to take awhile......

1. Why did tobi used the name Uchiha madara? Because it spreads fear.... why does it spread fear? because he is recognized as one of the strongest shinobi ever. He says this is the power of uchiha madara or the true power of uchiha madara refering to why he is revered as a legendary/timeless shinobi that even 100 years after his death people are still afraid of his name. That is what i meant. Note he is a strategist he is trying to scare his opponents just like when he let himself get hit to show that he had the 1sts dna. Hes boasting to them because he knows he's immortal and has a perfect body. And when activates PS he is basically saying **** you to them trying to rally thinking they can beat him.

2. by saying he awakened the rinnegan a short time before he died doesnt show anything other than before he died he awakened the rinnegan we dont know how long that time interval between him awakening it and before him dying.

3. I see you whole literal landscape thing, but in madara and hashirama's time there was no villages and countries just hired clans to do their work. However, when Madara awakened his ems he conquered hundreds of clans forcing their loyalty to the Uchiha. I assume the senju kinda did the same thing so when the two came together they create countries which was unheard of in their era. It's a big deal to create a nation/country wouldnt you say so? SO why does he say the world would be a better place united under a infinite tsuykomi and talk of how i destroy the planet? He's talking about ending the whole strife of the shinobi world and uniting everyone....aka they are in a giant war involving all of the countries currently in existence if madara's side wins there are no borders

4. kinda context interprettation goes one way or another not really into discussing which way it leans more than others

5. Here is your bijuu comment right there in the manga..... out of madara's mouth and how do you deny sasuke getting the PS? Madara didn't say he needed the first cells for rinnegan he said when one surpasses the sharingan he awakens the rinnegan aka sasuke can achieve the rinnegan.... and thank you for the T4S comment there lawlz

6. I understand itachi brought up a whole new doujutsu tech and that could be correlated to the PS however, what new techniques have been brought up with the use of the ems? none because susanoo is already an ms tech. The ems is eternal light aka they never go blind. Still sasuke hasnt used anything like a PS and he has ems. Madara has his rinnegan active for usage of PS and if rinnegan is completely different from E/MS and sharingan he shouldnt be able to use EMS techs with it active. BUt he does....and yet he has the rinnegan awakened when he stabilizes the susanoo fi they are different shouldnt he has the ems awakened?

Notes: I have brought up several points than provided manga clips that help prove those statements completely ignoring them and saying im using illogical intrepretations is kinda wrong.

Im sorry for being rather curt however understand my stand point that while you however debate and bring up great points others have just insulted me and said no without backing anything they say.

PS. IF rinnegan is seperate from sharingan how does one progress from ems to rinnegan but they arent related? nothing can be proven right or wrong really until kishi reveils more because we dont know about madara's fight with hashirama at all or what he had back than ems and the kyuubi and that alone. And that he lost and retrieved some of 1sts dna

PPS:Why does the uchiha tablet aka sharingan users has a third section that requires the rinnegan to fully translate it and understand what is said? Just general question here but it;s food for thought

Thanks for responding

1. Alright, you've confirmed that Madara is trying to intimidate the 5 kages. Now, I said that it's silly of him to be exclusively trying to do this, as opposed to also talking about PS, when revealing Hashirama's powers failed to intimidate them. You said "And when activates PS he is basically saying **** you to them trying to rally thinking they can beat him." Then trying to do the same thing using his name is, as I said, redundant and pointless. Madara wouldn't do it.

2. The quote straight-up says the interval was short :|

3. Alright let me propose another argument. Whatever Madara's talking about, if Hashirama is there, the effect is increased. If Hashirama was there, would the number of nations/countries created increase? Logically, Hashirama being there would increase the level of landscape destruction. This is a simple and clear explanation that makes sense in context.

4. Fair enough.

5. Dude check the link you posted, the quote is completely different! It's not 'Bijuu can withstand the attack', it's 'only the bijuu can compare'

I explained that Hashirama/senju power was needed to get rinnegan from EMS. Sasuke doesn't have access to this.

6. If you don't count PS as a new tech, then you'd be right. PS however is drastically different than Susano'o in both scale and power. For that reason I count them as different. Guess it's a matter of opinion here.

Notes: If by manga clip you mean link, then only one link was provided. I did not ignore your points, everything I wrote was a response to each of your claims. I even provided an overall assessment of each of your claims at the end of my paragraphs. Calling them illogical is fine so long as I explain why I thought so, which I did try to.

NP. Been doing pretty good yourself.

You're right that the manga is the final word on this, and we don't have enough data to be 100% certain.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
239
Reaction score
21
Does anybody else think that susanno and the gedo maizo statue are somehow related? Kinda like how the rinnigan and sharingan are evolutionary steps?
 

Mante

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,613
Reaction score
399
Maybe and may not. We are not sure, are we?

~ don't reply this :D
 

kisamexRocks

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
2,863
Reaction score
310
To OP

Just wait till your theory is completely proved wrong when of all people Sasuke awakens perfect Susano without rinnegan.

You know it will happen, and as much as EVERY Naruto, KB, Kakashi, Minato etc. fanboys will hate it, you know it will be pretty cool.

And yes guys, im the most craziest Sasuke lover ever. like totally.
 

-Logic-

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
10,912
Reaction score
974
The perfect Susano'o requires the Rinnegan and if you think otherwise you're wrong. I've already explained this in full detail...
 

paul234

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
66
Reaction score
6
i might be wrong but i think after edo madara reveled his rennigann he stopped switching between the sheringan and rennigann meaning his eye did not change even though he was using the incomplete susanno until he casted ginjutsu on the reikage i think this just shows that the rennigan cannot be used to create ginjutsu probably why edo madara had to switch to ems and also considering everything we have seen as to how madara's chakra is monstrous and how sasukes susanno differs from itachi's i think it is safe to assume that that is just the same thing and cos his level of hate and all what not is different he is able to create the susanno we just saw,so my answer is that no the rennigan is not needed for madara to complete his susanno
 

hiitz

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
1,293
Reaction score
74
Awesome theory !
+repp :)
 

Raito

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Messages
1,307
Reaction score
109
People have to understand that the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan are two different DouJutsus - The Eternal Mangekyou is a higher form of the Sharingan and Mangekyou, while the Rinnegan is an other DouJutsu you can gain by reaching the Sharingans limit, means you reach one DouJutsus limit and obtain an other. The final stage of the Sharingan is the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, there is no doubt, the Rinnegan is not the next stage of the EMS, it is a new DouJutsu.

The Susanoo can be awaken by the Mangekyou Sharingan, by mastering Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu - Susanoo stays Susanoo, no matter whether it is the normal on or the huger one with the stabilized Chakra. I really don't get your point.

If the perfect Susanoo would require the Rinnegan, Nagato would be able to use it, too. So stop with your assumptions.
 
Top