Pain and Tobi VS Hashirama..........Who wins ?
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Rikudou Tobi
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Uverdore9
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Can Hashirama use Mokuton Fields in comprison with Mokujin and Mokyuryu?In a fashion similar to Nagato?He might be able to beat both if that is possible.Note I put Tobi upto the arc where he was not known to be Obito so Obito feats are null.
Rikudou Tobi
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Nagato has an animal summoning that can make him invisible and even Kcm naruto could not sense him. Wood style is pretty much useless in the face of kamui.
The problem with wood golem, wood dragon, and deep emergency forest is that VoTe Madara took all of them out with 1 tailed beast bomb.
A tailed beast bomb is mountain range so these two have enough firepower to whip a mountain especial nagato’s shinra tensei. On the flip side, Hashirama can spam these jutsus like 2-3 times.
Tobi can warp Hashirama anytime, Hashirama’s Sage Mode means nothing since Kaguya’s sensing ability was useless against kamui (so was jinchuuriki Madara).
And Gedo mazou phantom dragon is a one-shot move for Hashirama as well.
So logically speaking, what is Hashirama going to do to a guy who transcends space and time along with another guy who can control magnetic forces to repel all forces of matter?
It doesn’t make sense for Hashirama to win. On top of that both of these guys have six path powers only one of them (Nagato) having slightly less reserves than Hashirama.
You need one eyed rinnegan Madara to take these guys out.
Uverdore9
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Shinra Tensei can be countered.The reason is it cannot harm mobile targets.Tsunade deduced a method which is pointing chakra to the soles area of the foot.Hashirama is more than a guy who you can count on surviving through chakra suppression.Plus do not forget the dude has Byakugou with automatic regeneration in base form.If Obito pierces him with Gedo Rods he will still be fully capable of weaving seals and overpowering him with Mokuton sprouting from his body.
Invisibility can be countered with Bringer Of Darkness which can blind Nagato when in range as per canon mist and smokescreens really fuck up the Rinnegan perception.Nagato has been caught in canon plus was defenseless so it stands to fact whether he can counter it effectively.
CT can be punched through Buddha Hands which are strong enough to crack Perfect SusanoO shield and MokuJin catches the CT falling downwards with its palms considering the fact it could absolutely block Perfect SusanoO Sword.
Hungry Ghost Realm is utterly useless by the fact it cannot absorb lifeforce but just chakra whereas Mokuton basis is made of lifeforce.
Shuradou Missiles are potentially grabbed by a flurry of Mokuton lined up all over as its best feats are breaking houses whereas hype puts latter above almost all types of material existing in NV in terms of hardness.
Ningendo cannot touch Hashirama as he can sprout trees from his body and stop it from nearing.
Gedo Dragons.....well no counter for that.
Rikudou Tobi
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Shinra tensei cannot be countered by wood dragon and wood golem, the shinra tensei isn't so much as for Hashirama since Tsunade survived it a little bit for collapsing due to protecting everyone else.
For Hashirama they can use Six path weapons (gedo rods) to pierce Hashirama so that they can control him or he won't be able to weave signs since he said so himself that he's useless against it:
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Bringer of darkness isn't going to work on a guy that can see chakra. The only reason why it worked on Hiruzen is because he doesn't have a byukgan, sharingan, or rinnegan.
And using bringer of darkness against an invisible chameleon would just make it harder for Hashirama to find Nagato.
Village size shinra tensei blows away 1,000 armed kanon since a village is bigger and denser than the 1,00 armed konan. If Nagato used chibaku tensei against 1,000 armed kanon, the gravitational pull will attract the statue off the ground towards the black sphere.
Wood style does not absorb life force, only wood dragon has that ability. Ninegendo can absorb life forces anyways
Wood style can't grab lasers and it was the lasers that were destroying buildings.
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This doesn't make sense. However this is Pain and Tobi vs Hashirama not Pain vs Hashirama. Hashirama's biggest problem would be 6 pain power+kamui+gedo powers combo.
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BenjerminGaye
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Cannon intel means hashirama doesn't know much about kamui. Tobi likely one shots if that is the case. If he has full knowledge on kamui, i'll still go with team as hashirama can't beat tobi unless he somehow outlasts him. And tobi can help out pain, who can demolish hashirama if aided by kamui.
rinnegan human puppet
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Uverdore9
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Hashirama can take the Mokujin and put it atop Buddha and cover himself with it.Which would disable Tobi from piercing him with said rods.He can also sprout trees from his body to limit the proximity of Obito so he would not get near.
Rinnegan cannot see through chakra which only the Byakugan can.Bringer of Darkness is not literal darkness but a Genjutsu.Genjutsu are not 'real'.It fools Nagato eyes alone not the other way around.
A village is not anywhere near as hard as SS.It is Hashirama best technique and his normal mokuton itself is revered as an extremely powerful jutsu.Only the likes of Tailed Beast Ball, SusanoO Arrow and Enma can break it cause it is that durable.
Nagato using Planetary Detrimentation is more lethal for him than Hashirama.If SS goes up with a stone foothold and it cracks open the CT core all of the stumble would fall directly on Nagato and the surrounding area which would bury the duo likely.
I meant Mokuton operates on the basis of lifeforce as it gives literal life to trees and not just control them with chakra which makes Preta Path futile plus Ningendo cannot absorb from all the trees at the same time.
Databook on Mokuton:
A unique secret technique that creates life, tearing through the ground!!
A legendary technique that turns chakra into a source of life.
Mokubunshin:
A clone created by altering one's own cells with chakra.
Databook 3 - Mokuton: Daijurin no Jutsu:
A technique that changes one's own arm into big trees. Using chakra, the cells are transformed into trees. Then, by activating the trees, stimulating them to grow rapidly, they lengthen at high speed and fork into many branches.
Databook 3 - Mokuton: Mokujouheki:*
This technique uses chakra to activate the roots in the ground and...
Databook 3 - Mokuton: Shichuuka no Jutsu:
By sending chakra into the ground, the roots of the plants are converted into raw materials.
A unique secret technique that creates life, tearing through the ground!!
A legendary technique that turns chakra into a source of life.
Mokubunshin:
A clone created by altering one's own cells with chakra.
Databook 3 - Mokuton: Daijurin no Jutsu:
A technique that changes one's own arm into big trees. Using chakra, the cells are transformed into trees. Then, by activating the trees, stimulating them to grow rapidly, they lengthen at high speed and fork into many branches.
Databook 3 - Mokuton: Mokujouheki:*
This technique uses chakra to activate the roots in the ground and...
Databook 3 - Mokuton: Shichuuka no Jutsu:
By sending chakra into the ground, the roots of the plants are converted into raw materials.
Asuras best feat is destroying buildings which are far lesser harder than wood.Mokujin can tank the lasers also.
Databook 3 - Mokuton: Daijurin no Jutsu:
A technique that changes one's own arm into big trees. Using chakra, the cells are transformed into trees. Then, by activating the trees, stimulating them to grow rapidly, they lengthen at high speed and fork into many branches.
A technique that changes one's own arm into big trees. Using chakra, the cells are transformed into trees. Then, by activating the trees, stimulating them to grow rapidly, they lengthen at high speed and fork into many branches.
Hashirama is like a center for growing trees.In a similar fashion as Danzo hand sprouted into trees when he lost control over Hashirama power.Kamui cannot get close to him up above Mokuton Buddha.Teleporting and piercing with Gedo Rods would be futile it would not touch him.
A possible Gedo Dragon counter:Goju Rashomon.Orochimaru three rashomon countered 4 tailed beast ball.
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Rikudou Tobi
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Hashirama always has wood golem wrapped around in wood dragon when casting the 1,000 armed kan’on, that’s why I said Hashirama can use wood golem and dragon 2-3 times in a fight.
Anyways It still means absolutely nothing in the face of kamui which bypass all attacks including Kaguya's. If kaguya’s superior power and defenses couldn’t get pass kamui, why would Hashirama’s?
You keep saying Hashirama can sprout a tree from his body to protect himself the black weapons but in the war Edo Hashirama proved that he can’t. He was fighting Madara in Sage Mode with wood golem yet he still was pinned down by the six path black weapons. The black weapons are used to control, control chakra and organic beings, it’s a shadow and light style weapon so of course their is no ninjutsu counter to it except for senjutsu.
If the rinnegan can see chakra then how was he to see konoha’s barrier? Pain saw Naruto’s chakra level, saw a pain inside the boss toads mouth, and he was able to see Jiraiya’s unique powers inside of the dark pipeline inside the chameleon:
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How can the Rinnegan (madara's eyes) the ocular power of the Sage Of Six paths not see through Darkness? Does that make sense to you? Sage of Six paths can't see in the dark? For the sake of a Hashirama argument Hagormoo's powers can't see through it?
What are you talking about? A village is way more sturdier than 1,000 armed kan’on, I can give a shit about it being hashirmam’s strongest jutsu it’s just common simple wood being controlled by chakra. The village is bigger than the kan’on and it contains a whole population of people in it with buildings full of wood, metal, and marble in and around the village. The kyubi shot a tailed beast ball and it still didn’t destroy the village entirely.
No jutsus are suppose to be a lot more sturdier than a place you live in. The fact of the matter is that both Hashirama and Madara clashed at VoTe and they created a small valley. The whole leaf village>>>that small valley in depth and size. Take that fight to the leaf village and half of the village would be gone, they would need two VoTe battles in order to whip out the village clean like shinra tensei did.
Okay, so his only chances really is breaking the core before the mountains accumulate. I don’t doubt that he can do that. My thing is can SS reach it and will it remain in take and not break into pieces?
Chibaku tensei for me is not a counter move I don’t believe Hashirama will have to much of a problem with that jutsu in Sage Mode if he counters correctly but village size shinra tensei decimates all his ninjutsus and kamui runs right through all of them.
I don’t know where you got the translation from put can you post the actual Viz 3rd databook pages because I saw something different then that.
As for absorbing his ninjutsu, Madara did it:
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So unless Hashirama drops those wood dragons on Gakido, all the jutsus get absorbed. Even kamui can warp them all.
Well you’re wrong there because a building contains wood, marble, and metal which is more durable than just wood. Lasers blast right through that thing, mokujin is not Hashirama’s most durable jutsu, the ranshom gates holds that title. Even Ohnoki’s particle style jutsu vaporized Emergency forest bloom so no laser is getting tanked by wood style.
Kamui negs. Kamui bypasses Top buddha and warps Hashirama.
Hashirama can’t alter the projectory of a PHANTOM dragon. Ranshom gates only counter physical attacks and beams, a phantom would go right through that thing.
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Uverdore9
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Which brings the entire question:How will Obito materialize around Hashirama if the Mokujin + Mokuryu are surrounding him and pierce the Gedo Rods?He cannot because of this issue.And if indeed he materializes around the former
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Edo Hashirama was nerfed due to its technique nature.Yamato can do it so Hashirama can.
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Seeing through chakra=/=seeing chakra.Sharingan can see chakra colour but cannot see through chakra.Kakashi could not see through Zabuza chakra mist.Seeing through solid substances=/=seeing through chakra also.
The eyes themselves do not help negate Genjutsu it just sees through which is not equal to breaking said Genjutsu.The Genjutsu is strong enough that Orochimaru thought would completely render Hiruzen,God Of Shinobi,unable to break it.Not just that Senjutsu would power up Genjutsu,Ninjutsu,Taijutsu.Which would completely level up the darkness and Pain canonically lost against Senjutsu Genjutsu.
That is not exactly how power is measured in Naruto.By that logic Madara Perfect SusanoO also gets one shotted by Shinra Tensei as latter overwhelms former in 'crater creation'.Every attack is powerful as the user needs to be.Hashirama also never wanted the place to be destroyed so he could have kept his destruction capacities on a low.
And that is also not how durability is measured.A hyped character arsenal would always trump unspecified structures durability.Its always been like that in Naruto Verse.His wood also is durable enough to crack through stone,rock,mountains etc cera effortlessly.
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Madara has Mokuton which enabled him to combine the Rinnegan power absorption with Mokuton to enable Hashirama absorption.Viz says the same,converting chakra into lifeforce and growing raw trees out of small roots deposited in deep down ground.Nagato do not have Mokuton/can Obito use absorption.
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This DB would clear this idea much more.
Particle style ignores classic durability.It leans more towards the side of hax.
Plus Hashirama can make his wood stronger than conventional wood like different light beams are stronger depending on user.
Bypassing is useless as Tobi has to materialize to attack which Wood Dragon would restrain him from and Mokujin would clasp him away from obviously.Kanon could backhand him away to protect Hashirama also with its many hands.
If this do not work then this might.
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The trees can paralyze constrict Gedo Mazo which would only work properly if the user controls it concentratedly.Losing concentration=not effectively applied.
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Lmao the wank is real when someone claims asura lasers are equal to jinton(a molecular level destroyer of objects)
Mokuton not strong enough to break obito/nagato arsenal however it was strong enough to pulverize perfect susanoo and kurama? Interesting debate so far.
Mokuton not strong enough to break obito/nagato arsenal however it was strong enough to pulverize perfect susanoo and kurama? Interesting debate so far.
Unorthodox
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Really?
Hashirama is skies apart from these 2 even if we use war arc obito Hashirama wins med diff max
Hashirama is skies apart from these 2 even if we use war arc obito Hashirama wins med diff max
Rikudou Tobi
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Hashirama stands on top of the wood golem’s head when performing 1,000 armed kan’on.
He can’t use wood dragon or golem with artifacts of a Buddha at the same time otherwise he would get caught in the line of fire.
On top of that, kamui is too fast for Hashirama. It’s a touch and go situation. Unless Hashirama has ftg, he is not escaping:
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More like Edo Madara was nerfed, because he didn’t use his meteor jutsu on Hashirama. Anyways it does not need for you to touch the pressure points just to bind your movements, the pressure points is to control your movements.
If necessary Tobi’s Six path weapons would will create chains to suppress his chakra when needed.
It does that upon contact so there will be no tree sprouting:
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What you’re saying doesn’t make sense. I just showed you Nagato seeing Jiraiya’s Sage transformation through the dark pipe line so I’m not sure why you’re arguing with what Nagato did in the manga. What you’re saying isn’t even stated in the manga unless you want to prove me wrong?
Zabuza’s chakra mist is completely covered in chakra while bringer of darkness is not. The only reason why Kakashi could not see through it is because the mist covers everywhere in chakra so you can’t find where the user is underneath all that chakra while
Bringer of darkness on the other hand is just darkness, so the rinnegan user can still see the caster’s chakra inside of that darkness making the jutsu useless in the first place.
Orochimaru never said or implied that and it was a genjutsu that only worked in a confined space not outside. To make matters worse, sharingan the ocular power that is supreme in genjutsus can break all illusions and nagato’s rinnegan can see chakra in the dark whether you like it or not because he did Jiraiya’s.
On top of everything too. Hiruzen broke that genjutsu by attacking the user and he was able to catch Hashirama in the dark without any ocular powers but with just his scent alone. A genjutsu that’s suppose to work on your 5 senses failed to work on Hiruzen’s sense of smell. That genjutsu is so useless that animal path would just send the dog at him if he doesn’t want to really on his ocular power to see.
Yes. That is exactly the case. The village is more sturdier than a Susano’o too. The user cannot make his or her chakra as hard as they need to be otherwise they would look exactly like a living biju. The bijus are the senses chakra out there, not wood style and surely not Susano’o either.
Even Kaguya used chakra air pressure to break Perfect Susano’o, if Kaguya did that to her ice world then all it would do is create a crater on the ground.
That is how durability is measured and that's your problem. Hype. Hype has nothing to do with feats because if hype had anything to do with actual feats,
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.Another thing too, cracking through rocks/boulder in the mountains is not how you measure durability just attack power really because roots growing out of boulder and rocks happen here in real life too it's nothing impressive.
Hashirama was considered that powerful in the feudal ages, that hype means nothing to me. As for feats like I posted above a mountain range blast destroyed most of Hashirama's wood style. Artifacts of a laughing Buddha was getting smashed into pieces upon contact and the ripped pieces of a Susano'o sword alone cutting through Hashirama's wood style arms before the biju bomb detonated
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@Bold part is not true and like I said before the only thing that can absorb is wood dragon besides that no other wood style has the ability to absorb chakra within Hashirama/Madara's arsenal. Wood dragon and God tree are the only ones. Saying that all wood styles can absorb is like saying all Rasen shurikens can cut you in a molecular level (which is not true only wind style can).
As for the wood style coming underground, I was already aware of that because in part one this was already stated in the Hiruzen vs. Senju bros fight. I made a thread on this a while back that Hashirama uses his chakra as a life source to manipulate his wood style which further proves my point that wood style isn't more durable than any ordinary common wood because that's what it is.
No he cannot, he's never shown the feats to harden wood, he's just shown feats to produce more when others are broken. You just said that Hashirama manipulates ordinary wood with his chakra like a few quotes ago.
Particle beams and lasers are essentially the same thing that are involved with the electromagnetic spectrum.
You know those little laser beams Ironman shoots out of his robot? Those are particle beams.
Nope, he doesn't need to materialize to attack with Black rods:
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phantom dragon cannot be touched by physical things like I said before, so emergency forest bloom is useless and Deity gates get crushed by Gedo mazou just like how the gedo mazou crushed that mountain.
You should know that the Deity gates can be broken by the ten tails jinchuuriki:
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