[Discussion] Overpopulation

Bastian

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According to some people overpopulation is just a myth, according to some people it's a huge problem, and we should take measures against it. What is your opinion about it?


  • Do you think there should be measures taken against overpopulation? And why?
  • What would the biggest disadvantages/problems of overpopulation be in your opinion?
It is a problem, though a problem caused ironically due to good intentions.

The population in 1960, about 3 billion, today it is over 7 billion. The reason is due to increased life expectancy, through development and distribution of vaccines and sterilization.

Some countries believe they are underpopulated, basically not enough human capital, and some believe they are overpopulated, not enough resources to feed a certain population.

To answer the questions; Yes and shortage of food and resources, also spread of disease in overcrowded areas.
 

Aim64C

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Not in the most populated metropolises.

Take Japan for example, Tokyo and Osaka are over-crowded.

Don't get me started on the PRC.

I hope you're not in America, because not everywhere has such a large land mass, far from it. And that's the problem, land mass. People aren't automatically allocated to spots in the world that equalizes the population density - some parts are practically empty and some are over-flooded.

A lot of people can't afford to move to less populated areas and therefore, you end up with tinned sardines.

Overpopulation is a problem that's beginning to occur.
That is an artificially imposed overpopulation.

Even in Japan - there is plenty of area for the population. Flying into Narita International feels like you're pilot has lost his marbles and is going to land you in the middle of the damned Amazon Rain Forest.

Even then - many areas refuse to explore the notion of underground construction (even though it has become cheaper and more cost effective than building massive air-conditioned greenhouses known as skyscrapers). This is usually due to building codes designed for above-ground structures but that will still apply to below-ground structures (despite having no real purpose other than to increase costs).

Then there's the fact that many countries, in order to make sure their citizens enjoy the benefits of a government, must jump through hurdles to be cleared to leave one government's jurisdiction - and if not, almost always the permission of another government.

The U.S. is one of the only countries on the planet that actually allows homesteading of foreign migrants. You can move here and buy property, build a home, etc - all without having citizenship (though we are also one of the few countries that allows foreign migrants to obtain full citizenship).

I expect that will go the way of the dinosaur since we're a communist state, now. We'll have to build all manner of fences and regulations to keep people in to enjoy the benefits they are going to lose if they leave.

The main restrictions to population are all artificially induced.

In other areas - we got rid of smallpox - which was killing off those people too malnourished to be having kids, anyway. Now they breed with food supplies as the only restraining factor and the West sees pictures of starving kids and sends them aid that gets confiscated by warlords who use the kids to fight territorial wars over God only knows what (or as pirates on commercial shipping lanes).

Many of those areas have their own issues with government regulations - and others are just not well suited to supporting the kinds of population they have on classical farming methods (shifting to hydroponics or other forms would allow them to better utilize their resources and bypass issues with pests and soil). But that is an investment issue that gets bogged down by national regulations and trade embargoes and tax exemptions.

At some point - the planet will reach some degree of overpopulation. When we're tunneled throughout the Earth's crust and using fusion reactors to produce the energy necessary to grow plants for produce and feedstock for domesticated animals - we will have reached a point where there is literally no where else to go - and by then they may have the material technology to build a skyscraper that reaches into the exosphere and can pressurize it to habitable levels.

We are a long, long way from overpopulating the planet. We can even do it without disturbing the biosphere by going undergound (a move we should have been doing for decades, now - not the greatest of which is eco-friendliness).

But even above-ground - we're far from it. There are some localized complications, yes - but many of those are purely artificial and due to nothing but the force of government.
 

narutokage99

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No it's not a problem, it's only a problem for the rich and those who control everything.
There are enough food and water for more 20-30 billions peoples.
 
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Wabbit

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How do you say we are over populated.We don’t share the whole earth.
We live inside borders.That too in our own property..a limited space within that.A city can be overpopulated.
If a place is overpopulated obviously they are going to face problems with resources and almost every urban problem you can imagine.People will migrate to other places...but there will be a concerning problem only when these people cannot move out.There is no other place left to go.
I don’t think Humans will ever able to terraform and colonize other planets but if they do it would be good..by that time group of countries would need to be united and if they colonize other place together their strategical ambition on earth would be null.That could solve a lot of problem.
 

YowYan

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Elaborate, what's the real issue then, because too many people is probably part of it.
For example: Agriculture(feeding cattle healthy stuff, general health, clothing and fuel would get an enormous boost of production if industrial hemp was implemented. But, as it is a plant that would make goverment less needed, authorities fear it and thus criminalize it and glorify less efficient ways of production.

The problem is that we're owned. We need some anarchy and self-sustainability. We need a resource-based economy with free renewable energy without the greed and agendas of corporations. Overpopulation is a hoax used to divert eyes.. In my opinion..
 
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Funky Tiger

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For example: Agriculture(feeding cattle healthy stuff, general health, clothing and fuel would get an enormous boost of production if industrial hemp was implemented. But, as it is a plant that would make goverment less needed, authorities fear it and thus criminalize it and glorify less efficient ways of production.

The problem is that we're owned. We need some anarchy and self-sustainability. We need a resource-based economy with free renewable energy without the greed and agendas of corporations. Overpopulation is a hoax used to justify the thought of elimination of masses of people being profitable. In my opinion..
i agree with the anarchy part, but i just dont believe that its possible anymore. it shouldve been done a long time ago. now everyone's just used to the lifestyle where we just blame the gubberment for everything and never take matters into our own hands.
 

YowYan

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i agree with the anarchy part, but i just dont believe that its possible anymore. it shouldve been done a long time ago. now everyone's just used to the lifestyle where we just blame the gubberment for everything and never take matters into our own hands.
Some people are still "fighting" through acts of independence. Heck, growing your own vegetables and fruits is something. And what about that american rancher from..Nevada? Defying authorities' demands, practicing his self pro-claimed freedom only under the law of nature. Militia helping him and such..interesting drama.
 

Aim64C

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For example: Agriculture(feeding cattle healthy stuff, general health, clothing and fuel would get an enormous boost of production if industrial hemp was implemented. But, as it is a plant that would make goverment less needed, authorities fear it and thus criminalize it and glorify less efficient ways of production.
Hemp isn't a miracle plant. It's actually a rather mediocre plant in terms of its industrial viability and growth patterns.

The real problem is not Government criminalization of hemp. It's government in general, which sets up regulations and stipulations that serve only to limit human ingenuity and natural market dynamics.

The problem is that we're owned. We need some anarchy and self-sustainability. We need a resource-based economy with free renewable energy without the greed and agendas of corporations. Overpopulation is a hoax used to divert eyes.. In my opinion..
Free renewable energy is a pipe dream at this stage of the game. Unless you have $50-60K to throw down on a solar and wind system - it's not realistic. Small communities could theoretically afford these types of systems - but you're also looking at a radical shift in construction and lifestyle to make that practical. It would have to be a community designed specifically with the purpose of reducing energy overhead.

And the reality of that is that people like windows and hot water on demand far too much to make that cost effective.

Small hydro plants are about as practical as it gets. Those can put out practical amounts of power off of small streams and other such sites without serious interruptions in the local ecology... but they don't work too well for more cramped areas (or those that are flat and lacking in water run-off). Small reservoirs could be created for communities and have somewhat larger (up to a megawatt) systems put into place - but those are going to be relatively expensive installations (though still less than a solar/wind hybrid system to support a community of comparable size).

Then we get into industrial demands - and the reality of that is that electricity is in extremely high demand. While natural gas is still preferred for some industries (and is not at all a bad solution) - the shape of next-generation manufacturing technologies is improvements on Sintering processes (which do not actually melt metal) and the manufacturing of ceramic-metal hybrids and other meta-materials that require the fine control of electrically driven systems.

The only practical sources of energy for those industries is hydrocarbons or some form of nuclear reactor. Hydro or geothermal are plausible - but most of those locations have already been exploited.

And that all cycles around to it being more realistic for nuclear power to replace much of our coal based power with far more gradual changes in our building design and social structure. Already the prevalence of LEDs is slashing lighting costs - I can light buildings for nearly one tenth the amount of energy on LEDs compared to T8 florescents... but getting people to adopt new ideas (particularly those who do not study electronics and have no idea what an LED is - just that it has something to do with TVs and flashlights) is not an easy process.

You should see the look on people's face when I suggest they switch to a solid state relay in their control systems.

They look at me: "Will it still work?"

"No... they built a replacement for a relay that won't work. Why would they ever replace the relay?"

Or:

"... So I don't have to change the brushes?"

Seriously - after the EPA and FDA came along - it's like half of our nation's industry got frozen in the late 70s in terms of technology and no one bothers to change anything because heaven forbid a regulator take issue with it not being on their rubber stamp. No one realizes they are living in the literal stone-age of electronics. I half expect someone to pull out a contact crystal radio or ask me where they need to feed the punch cards in.

"They put the technology of the space shuttle..."

So it's less sophisticated than my watch. Let's get with the 90s.

*flips over a desk in mock anger*

People and their ignorance of the fact they are pissing money down the drain.
 
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