Orochimaru vs MS Sasuke.

[Nattana]

None of our business, MANGA STATES all eye techniques were transferred at that point so how he knew is none of our concern as long as it was stated.

He said ALL were transferred so the chances you're bringing up are irrelevant..It's MANGA FACT already. He even did say "Somehow Itachi transferred it" which means he didn't know what Itachi did but he knew Itachi somehow transferred this techniques to Sasuke. If it was just Amaterasu, then he'd have referred to that alone..But he says ALL which indicates to us that it happened. How he knew is irrelevant and not a case. Not to mention he had Zetsu watch the fight..Anyways, all irrelevant.

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Only Itachi knew what he transfered to Sasuke. Obito CANNOT possibly know that. He himself said Itachi 'somehow' did that. And since Sasuke never used Tsukuyomi and since Obito knows nothing of Itachi's transfer jutsu - he was just speculating. Just because a character says something doesn't mean it's 100% true. There's tons of such examples.

Not to mention that I'd like to see the raw scan of that exact panel of Obito talking, since there's no plural and singular in Japanese.

 

[Haizaki]

Only Itachi knew what he transfered to Sasuke. Obito CANNOT possibly know that. He himself said Itachi 'somehow' did that. And since Sasuke never used Tsukuyomi and since Obito knows nothing of Itachi's transfer jutsu - he was just speculating. Just because a character says something doesn't mean it's 100% true. There's tons of such examples.

Not to mention that I'd like to see the raw scan of that exact panel of Obito talking, since there's no plural and singular in Japanese.

Proof that he was speculating because he said all was done to protect Sasuke and if it was speculating, it would have been made known to us with "I guess" or "I think" Something like that..So he= made the statement with nothing suggesting so.. Whether Itachi knew what he had done to Sasuke doesn't matter when Kishi made Obito say so with no hint of speculation. Zetsu was there and he also has the ability to record fights which could be another possibility...Either way, how Obito said POWERS/ALL. If it was one, he'd have referred to ONE. Here he said it in PLURAL terms.

This is the Viz:

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Still plural terms.

 

[Haizaki]

He said "His own" as well referring to Itachi's.

 

[Nattana]

Proof that he was speculating because he said all was done to protect Sasuke and if it was speculating, it would have been made known to us with "I guess" or "I think" Something like that..So he= made the statement with nothing suggesting so.. Whether Itachi knew what he had done to Sasuke doesn't matter when Kishi made Obito say so with no hint of speculation. Zetsu was there and he also has the ability to record fights which could be another possibility...Either way, how Obito said POWERS/ALL. If it was one, he'd have referred to ONE. Here he said it in PLURAL terms.

This is the Viz:

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Still plural terms.

Now VIZ clarifies that there's no 'ALL techniques' but 'techniques'. And it doesn't mean Kishimoto meant techniques instead of technique, because just like I said before there's no telling the difference between plural and singular in Japanese. Everything in that field is a matter of context, which clearly suggests singular 'technique', since out of Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, Sasuke only showed Amaterasu.

 

[Draegod]

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This scan literally destroyed any notion that "all of itachi's tech were transferred". Iuse to think Sasuke had it as well, but based off manga facts he doesn't have it and had a plethora of opportunities to use it but didnt. But irregardless, this scan alone says "Amateratsu", not all of His techs.

 

[HNIC]

Sasuke has some decent feats of utilizing genjutsu, like putting Danzō under an illusion without him noticing and using it to counter C4 (I know Deidara knew that he was going to use genjutsu, but that isn't the point). Furthermore, he summoned and placed Manda under genjutsu in quick succession while he was about to be blown to bits by C0. Point is, Sasuke has the ability to put any snake summon under genjutsu immediately and dispose of them quickly before they're broken out, or before they blind their sight.

Sasuke's Fire Dragon jutsu that he used to heat up the sky to prep Kirin is enough to kill 10,000 relatively small snakes

All which required eye contact of some sort. Manda would simply eliminate that possibility by avoiding eye contact completely. I never said Manda couldn't be caught in genjutsu, I'm explaining a matter in which he could counter genjutsu. Sasuke summoned Manda in his possession previously. He wasn't a threat and as most summoners, Sasuke most likely appeared on Manda's head, allowing him to have done so successfully. Therefore, my argument stands.

You do make a lot of sense coming to think...Though my second point would then come into play if this is the case which means Orochimaru stands no chance of countering Tsukoyomi as that was a Basic MS Genjutsu against Danzo

Then again, the intent was for Sasuke to kill him in the real world as he rushed towards him..Danzo was actually trapped like he said but still had his cursed seal placed on Sasuke which disrupted Sasuke considering he was totally restricted.

No, it means it's impossible for Sasuke to have than had the ability to use tsukoyomi. If...IF he indeed does, Orochimaru being aware, similar to Danzo, could escape by chakra disruption, pain, etc.

Also, refer to Draegods post. He likely doesn't have the ability

 

[Haizaki]

Draegod, that's a legit point. Pretty sure Nattana would have had no way out with that reasoning he was using but no point countering since I'm wrong here. However, Sasuke still wins as Orochimaru probably can't counter a stronger/different form of the Mangekyou Sharingan Genjutsu when we have Danzou not being able to do so until he realized afterwards despite having Sharingans with him..Either way, Sasuke wins.

 

[Haizaki]

No, it means it's impossible for Sasuke to have than had the ability to use tsukoyomi. If...IF he indeed does, Orochimaru being aware, similar to Danzo, could escape by chakra disruption, pain, etc.

Also, refer to Draegods post. He likely doesn't have the ability

Yeah true he doesn't..However, Orochimaru won't even know he's in a Genjutsu.

 

[HNIC]

Yeah true he doesn't..However, Orochimaru won't even know he's in a Genjutsu.

He's shown knowledge on it previously.

Sasuke's genjutsu is mute compared to Itachi, the very Itachi who Orochimaru displayed some resistance to.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

All which required eye contact of some sort. Manda would simply eliminate that possibility by avoiding eye contact completely. I never said Manda couldn't be caught in genjutsu, I'm explaining a matter in which he could counter genjutsu. Sasuke summoned Manda in his possession previously. He wasn't a threat and as most summoners, Sasuke most likely appeared on Manda's head, allowing him to have done so successfully. Therefore, my argument stands.

Yes, I agree that it is a viable counter, however, Manda isn't showing up on the battle field with his eyes blinded. And he surely won't think about doing it until he sees who he's up against, or has Orochimaru brief him. That alone gives Sasuke enough time to put Manda under genjutsu.

 

[HNIC]

Yes, I agree that it is a viable counter, however, Manda isn't showing up on the battle field with his eyes blinded. And he surely won't think about doing it until he sees who he's up against, or has Orochimaru brief him. That alone gives Sasuke enough time to put Manda under genjutsu.

Communication via chakra. Summoners can inform the summoned animal of the situation beforehand, the reason we've witness animals appear on the attack instantly.

Tsundae has done this. Similar with clones.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

Communication via chakra. Summoners can inform the summoned animal of the situation beforehand, the reason we've witness animals appear on the attack instantly.

Tsundae has done this. Similar with clones.

Can you post some scans of this?

If true, then Susano'o arrows still do the job.

 

[HNIC]

Can you post some scans of this?

If true, then Susano'o arrows still do the job.

Which scan? tsunade? She does this on the attack against Pein and war arc. I'll have to look, using my phone at work right now.



Clones? This was explained and shown by Naruto.

Arrows aren't very destructive, especially shown against Danzo. kidomaru's arrows have shown better feats

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

Which scan? tsunade? She does this on the attack against Pein and war arc. I'll have to look, using my phone at work right now.



Clones? This was explained and shown by Naruto.

Arrows aren't very destructive, especially shown against Danzo. kidomaru's arrows have shown better feats

Doesn't change the fact that the arrows will kill any large snake summon.

I already knew about the clones, what I was asking for was proof of the communication via chakra.

 

[HNIC]

Doesn't change the fact that the arrows will kill any large snake summon.

I already knew about the clones, what I was asking for was proof of the communication via chakra.

A direct blast from C0 left little external damage. Now though it's an arrow, I doubt it'll be able to pierce through Manda when it failed to make a small crater against Danzo.

Summoning requires chakra, the chakra line is between the summoner and it's respected animal. Jiraiya examines this to Naruto in part 1, the reason he wanted him to use the Kyuubi chakra in order to summon Gama. It's connected.

Chakra tranfers information

 

[maniaoqan]

Its Itachi vs Orochimaru all over again.

 

[Nattana]

Draegod, that's a legit point. Pretty sure Nattana would have had no way out with that reasoning he was using but no point countering since I'm wrong here. However, Sasuke still wins as Orochimaru probably can't counter a stronger/different form of the Mangekyou Sharingan Genjutsu when we have Danzou not being able to do so until he realized afterwards despite having Sharingans with him..Either way, Sasuke wins.

Actually, my reasoning was on point. The scan Draegod posted only set it in stone. Sadly, Japanese language is all about the context, so just because VIZ translated something as 'techniques' doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't supposed to be 'a single technique'.

And then Obito clearly stated he didn't know how Itachi transfered technique/techniques to Sasuke. He knows he did transfer at least one because he saw Sasuke use Amaterasu.

But I agree there's no point in arguing it further, especially that Drae's post ended the whole thing.

 

[Lariatoo]

Sasuke low med diff.

 

[Haizaki]

He's shown knowledge on it previously.

Sasuke's genjutsu is mute compared to Itachi, the very Itachi who Orochimaru displayed some resistance to.

No because Sasuke used the same exact Genjutsu as Itachi which is referred to as this technique(Look at the casters as well):

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Which is why Orochimaru said "It's just like that time"..That enabled him know he was in a Genjutsu...Sasuke can just use a different one and he won't know he's in one.

Actually, my reasoning was on point. The scan Draegod posted only set it in stone. Sadly, Japanese language is all about the context, so just because VIZ translated something as 'techniques' doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't supposed to be 'a single technique'.

And then Obito clearly stated he didn't know how Itachi transfered technique/techniques to Sasuke. He knows he did transfer at least one because he saw Sasuke use Amaterasu.

But I agree there's no point in arguing it further, especially that Drae's post ended the whole thing.

Agreed. Didn't think Japanese was like that to be honest...That literally makes things difficult.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

A direct blast from C0 left little external damage. Now though it's an arrow, I doubt it'll be able to pierce through Manda when it failed to make a small crater against Danzo.

Summoning requires chakra, the chakra line is between the summoner and it's respected animal. Jiraiya examines this to Naruto in part 1, the reason he wanted him to use the Kyuubi chakra in order to summon Gama. It's connected.

Chakra tranfers information

Again... doesn't change the fact that the snake will get pierced by the Susano'o arrow. And for the record, Danzō got pierced as well.
I'm not sure about this, but I don't even think Manda took on the full brunt of C0's blast.

I'm still not seeing any substantial proof.